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Acid Reflux / GERD Board Index


This is especially relevant to anyone whose LPR began in an acute way (you can remember the day all the symptoms started) and especially, after or during a virus like a cold/flu or bronchitis.
However even if it began suddenly during a period of high stress or heavy binge drinking/smoking/aspirin, or if you had a surgical breathing tube pulled out and it all began that day, this probably applies.

I don't believe we actually have reflux. Studies in the last 5 years are increasingly calling into question the "difficulty" of making an LPR diagnosis, particularly since we mostly have no heartburn, no previous acid problems until the acute onset, no signs on barium swallow or endoscopy. Well, that's because it's not reflux!

Don't you find it hard to believe that reflux is somehow causing these "injuries" which don't even show up on larynx exams, and acid and bile is supposedly coming up, yet you can't feel it? That's funny, last time I vomited in my mouth, I kind of felt it. Half the stress of this disease is knowing that your diagnosis is bunk. And there's a reason. Periodically, people have always showed refractory coughs, throat clearing, globus problems, and there was no way to treat or explain it. So in the 1980s, a smart young doctor named Jamie Koufman started advocating "acid reflux" as a waste basket diagnosis to treat all of these people. Somehow, it caught on in the larynology business and is pretty widespread, just because usually doctors can solve a person's throat problems easily. When they can't and nothing really noticable shows up on the exam......well........ it's reflux then, so take your ppis and don't come back to his office for a half a year! That will teach you, for having something that doesn't show up on an exam.

This is, according to the most recent studies on laryngeal sensory neuropathy, a nerve related problem, caused by damage done by a virus or idopathically (medical term for "who knows how") in the larynx. The larynx is then set off sending intense wrong messages to the brain, and causing the larynx to overreact to anything causing the globus, the throat clearing, chronic cough, etc. So why are you taking ppis and why do trained ENTs tell you something else? It's because the concept of laryngeal neuropathy has only been even vaguely known about for 10 years, starting with Murray Morrison's paper on the irritable larynx syndrome in 1999.

You know the tell-tale red streak on the pharynx. More than 80 percent of healthy randomly selected people had that in a laryngoscopy examination. The ppis work as well as placebos. In the last 5 years a lot of studies have been done, talking about laryngeal sensory neuropathy. They treat it with drugs that help with pain and especially work on the vagus nerve (elavil, lyrica, neurontin) and the results are something like 70 percent to 90 percent of patients improving, even IF they don't show noticably motor dysfunction in the larynx.

Long story short, there are a number of articles you need to read on laryngeal sensory neuropathy, also known as post viral vagal neuropathy. The symptoms of this disease sound......well...... a lot like the symptoms of your apparent LPR. There is hope for us getting out of the mess, but I think you almost have to print this articles out and bring them to your next doctor's exam, if you don't have GERD. It's worth a try anyway. You are already wasting money on the double ppis. Why not give small dosages of pregabalin 75mg or elavil 10mg a "trial". I bet you'll notice results in less than a week.

So here are a few starter articles that you all must see. This is an article from "ENT today" in late 2008 that you can get by just searching "ENT today pregabalin shows promise for treating laryngeal sensory nueropathy". Strangely, maybe because the stupid idea of LPR in people without GERD or any signs of reflux in the esophagus, is so well-established now, they don't even really debunk LPR. But you'll notice the symptoms of Laryngeal sensory neuropathy sound IDENTICAL to our bloody LPR.

Read that, and tell me it doesn't sound like those of you with an accute onset of LPR aren't rethinking this whole useless runaround you've been doing for months and even years, wasting money and time on low acid diets and especially on the USELESS ppis.

Continue to search on the terms "laryngeal sensory neuropathy" or "post viral vagal neuropathy". Articles and abstracts will show up, about how people with "chronic cough/globus/chronic throat clearing/chronic tickle in throat/laryngospasms" get relief with taking neuropathy drugs. The important thing for doctors to determine if it is likely LSN, the articles say, is patient history. That means, if the patient suddenly came down with a bunch of alternating, side-by-side throat symptoms during a cold, and never exhibited them before, and if the patient can remember more or less the precise day of the onset, that means the doctor should highly suspect laryngeal sensory neuropathy.

Sometimes there is actual noticable movement dysfunction from it, like a paralyzed vocal fold or vocal chord, or you uvula moves abnormally. That's called motor neuropathy. But more often, it's not detectable in that way, which means it's sensory neuropathy. The good news is that BOTH kinds respond very highly to treatment with Gaba-a agonists and tricyclic anti-depressants, both of which calm down the vagus nerve. The point is, these symptoms are identical to what we call the LPR symptoms, but really it has nothing to with reflux. It's a hyper-sensitive misfiring larynx, it's nerves or a nerve damaged from the virus. If I knew all of this before, I would have been a lot more diligent with taking my vitamin C and all that. I used to think colds were just harmless inconvenience. Now I'm afraid to get another one.

In one article I saw, 10 out of 10 patients who stayed on pregabalin had symptom relief of their Lp........ I mean, laryngeal sensory neuropathy.

How can this be? How do nerve drugs treat our invisible tiny drops of aerosole bile reflux? Jamie Koufman and others stick to the idea of LPR, but you know there are many doctors out there who don't know about, and a lot of others who don't even believe in it.

I'm not a doctor or an expert. I'm just trying to find relief for myself and others suffering like me. But I think, the doctors would be in a better position for treating patients if they knew more about laryngeal sensory neuropathy, and less about LPR and its so-called "treatments"...

One more article:

Evidence for Sensory Neuropathy and Pharmacologic Management by Scott M. Green and C. Blake Simpson (from 2010) . Notice how recent all these articles are???

Based on the very high success rates for treatment of laryngeal sensory neuropathy, and the fact that the symptoms are identical to any sudden onset LPR, I believe that this should be the first road of treatment.

There may actually be such a thing as LPR in people with reflux, and it may cause a bunch of non specific symptoms in the larynx. Maybe. The problem is, we are all getting treated like we have acid reflux, and it's simply, totally FALSE. So please, educate yourself, bring these articles to your next doctor's meeting, and if you get relief with neuropathic treatment, post it on these pages and help others who are going to keep coming down with our problem in the future. And if it doesn't work, don't worry. The ppis don't work either. There's an article on that (2010 published) that says placebos often beat PPIs in double blind studies that aren't funded by ppi makers.

Thanks for your time. And please for the future of people with our condition, do your utmost to get on a "trial" and inform your ENT. He probably doesn't know or care about this, or he'd already have you on neuropathic drugs, so you would not be visiting his office all the time.

Best of luck. Let me know your feedback. Keep in mind, the reason you might not have heard about Laryngeal sensory neuropathy is because it's a very new idea (with exciting results), and the waste-basket diagnosis of GERD/LPR in the face of ALL the evidence that it's wrong keeps ENTs from moving in the right direction.

::cool:
indeed, philger. gerd symptoms and signs like chest pain aren't especially relevant to my idea.

What i'm saying is if, it started with a virus that damaged your throat, and then the throat alone produces acute symptoms, then we have to consider that it doesn't have to do with reflux.

Yet, since the generic, non-specific symptoms of Lpr are related to a number of other disorders (they are very similar to the onset of esophageal cancer) for instance, we will all be treated for GERD. Will someone with LSN obtain relief being treated for GERD? Never, that's why, I'm presupposing, a lot of us on this board have not obtained relief.

LSN is rare but it happens, and if LPR is also real, then it merely produces the same symptoms which are also produced by a variety of other problems. If we are all treated for GERD, only the lucky few who have this bizarre form of GERD will be healed. Because of the much higher rate of success for treating LSN in clinical studies in the last few years, I'd suggest that we would all be better off if every case of apparent LPR was treated with a trial to treat LSN.

I'm not an expert on LPR, but what I've read suggested that they can't even be sure if it can ever be positively diagnosed. Also, it's treatment is virtually worthless, if GERD doesn't accompany it.
Ok, I understand. You make a fairly convincing point. However, say there was 50 reflux events per day and you were going to get cancer later on (which is not highly likely even with barretts, they say)....

The main thing then in life should be quality, rather than quantity. I couldn't care less if I live a number of decades now, if I have this every day of my life. I would gladly give up 2 or 3 of them to live the others without symptoms. Even if people with GERD somehow progress to LPR, the main issue has to be, for me, symptoms. The relief of all those symptoms is the all that really matters. Burn the throat to a crisp, but don't let the person know about it. What about the thousands who get esophageal and laryngeal cancer every year? Why didn't they feel anything up to the day they got it? I envy them for that. Maybe that's where nerves play a part. And that's why nerves are all I care about addressing, if you can see my point.

That said though, even the best ph tests are being called into question in recent articles, because healthy patients can also post a high number of reflux incidents, and they also have the burnt throat appearance on being examined.

In your case, I'm glad to hear you have improved somewhat. I"m sure you'll do what is right for you, and the most important thing is that you get a resolution of your symptoms, however you get it.
Saratron,

here is a couple levels of what I call evidence.

Before I start, can I just mention that ppis are also made by drug companies. I have nothing to do with them, and if you think I'm immoral to plug a type of drug, what do you think of your own ENT, who plugged useless drugs to you for months or years, while you suffered.

Choking, throat clearing, globus.... It doesn't sound so bad, I admit, if you've never had it. Those who have it are in torment however. I wouldn't joke about this, and I'm trying to do the opposite of what Jamie Koufman and other ENTs did, namely, send you on a wild goose chase which prolongs your suffering.

I don't think you get this or want to get this, Saraton. I have "LPR" for the last two months. It's relentless. It has negatively affected my life. I'm trying to get as many of us as possible to a better life.

I just feel it's not reflux.

Let me explain. Today, I met with an ENT today in Germany after a month. By the way, I smoke and drink every day, cause I know it's not reflux so I don't give a "care"

It came in with a virus attacking my throat. I have throat symptoms after that. The origin, and cause, of my problem is the throat. If you can't feel the accuracy of that, enjoy your ppis...


Anyway, he looked at my throat. It looks perfect he said. My esophagus has no esophagitis, no HH, no signs of freaking reflux. Yet, I got a virus which aggressively attacked my........my ...... my THROAT!!!! now I have ongoing throat problems........ So I guess I have to cut down on my onion rings, right?

I met a neurologist today, and he asked me to email him medical journal articles written in the last two years, so keep eating your mulberries and whey, and sleep standing up, with no heartburn.

How many patients will your doctor get like you?

80 if he's really old.

How many strep patients?

Thousands.

So you are in deep crap right now if you want to pretend this is reflux.

Besides, imagine it was reflux. What do you want? To stop the reflux OR to stop the symptoms? I think the answer is obvious for everyone on this board.

I'm not a shill for drug companies, for god's sake. I'm trying to help myself and people like me, because I know first hand what a struggle this disease is.

I've found 4 people minimum on message boards who have specifically talked about ending it all. What GERD patient jokes around about that?

What IBS patient does?

But in the case of neuropathy, you find people who do discuss that. So why are people so desperate sometimes with LPR, if it's just GERD???? Because it's neuropathy, and that wears down a person's soul to be in pain all the time.

No one who had this disease would be that cynical, frankly. I'm not a shill, I'm trying to help. Get on lyrica for a week, and then feed me your certainty that this is acid reflux.

If it is....... why does it come and go randomly for people, UNTIL THEY GET A COLD OR FLU. Why does it relent for people on neurontin, or bonine, or reglan, all of which mess with the nervous system? They all say it's because they sleep upside down and only eat yogurt..

Why does drinking and smoking improve the symptoms of those who dare to do so, even though it causes reflux? Why does Mcdonalds help our terrible LPR?

I'll give you all a challenge this week. Do the worst things you can to aggrivate reflux. Then consciously decide "is this really any worse of a feeling than i had last week when i slept on a wall and only ate popsicles???"

I'm trying to help me, and I'm trying to help you. I hope you get that, and I understand your anger. I'm pretty mad too.

Stephen
This is very interesting. I have been seeing a naturopath for 7 months now, off ppi's for 4 months. I have had "gerd/lpr" diagnosed with both by my gastroenterologist and throat dr in 2009...everyday for 1 1/2 years. Its nutty to comprehend. Everyday i wake up with a pink/red throat, my digestion is improving since going off ppis but still struggling big time. I was in the middle of a psychiatric drug withdrawl (slow and planned from a previous anxiety and depression) when one day it literally came on that quick on June 22, 2009. I was taking out recycling and felt something off and it has never, ever gone back. I also developed a bad cold/chest bug that same week, it was awful in my throat, i had never had a cough that bad in my life. I was diagnosed with mild esophagitis and gastritis a month later and ppi's worked for like 2 weeks, then i stopped them (retried many and stayed on them for a long time) and i've never been the same. The ppi's really helped mess my digestion up to the point of being 90 some lbs and my family (and i) thought i was dying...lost FORTY lbs....i had no digestion problems till i began the ppis. My ND has said although he sees some inflammation upon looking in my throat, its mainly neurological/nerves.

I can't go in and get a scope constantly or do those awful tests b/c for one i am very sensitive to the meds they use to put you under and two i've been ON ALL THE MEDS...they didn't work...not even close. I don't want to live my life in constant fear that i am getting ready to die of esophageal cancer after 1 1/2 years of this every single day. They have tried ppi's and other stomach meds galore...but nada, nothing....things only got worse.

I have always been sensitive. My ND brought it to my attention that although i am now dealing with digestion issues, it is most definitely made worse by the ppis due to my sensitivity and my throat/esophagus are extremely sensitive. I am currently working on lots of qi gong, lifestyle changes, meditation, etc....b/c psychiatric drugs was i thought my biggest nightmare until this came on. So, i won't be doing lyrica.....but i really find this intriguing and something i have pondered and always knew that there is some kind of fibromyalgia situation going on in my esophagus since that day. I do hope researchers find more and soon, soon, soon. There are alot of us, thank goodness for this board. I have never physically met someone with this strange situation i find myself in.
well, it is pretty well known that stress physical and mental (known AND unknown) can bring lpr and gerd on...but i strongly disagree that antidepressants are the solution for everyone.....STRONGLY. I just came from that route....i wouldn't be here if it wasn't pure hell....and like everything eventually your body builds a tolerance AND then you have a whole new problem....that you still have to face. Thats a whole other thread probably on a different board but psychiatric drugs are hurting many, many people. I do wish you much success of course! :) and hope you find it works for you but those drugs just tore my mind and body apart (especially liver), i will not be going back to them or any version. I know i am taking the longer route, without chemical onslaught but i'll get there, i know it ;)
I see the point you are making, but your scenario seems to be lacking something. If you have a doctor that jumps to such treatment immediately, I'd be finding another doctor. High-dose PPI's should never be the first approach to treatment.

I do have LPR and GERD. I wouldn't be surprised if I had the nerve irritation at times as well. The thing is, I have worked with my PCP and 3 specialists over the years. (ENT, Pulmonologist and Gastroenterologist) In all cases, the doctors worked with me first on lifestyle changes. When the medications were introduced, they were introduced at the lowest levels first. I worked my way up to PPI's. I initially took low dosages. I continued to try various approaches before I started on PPI's twice per day. While trying the meds, I was encouraged to continue my lifestyle changes as well. The doctors didn't just prescribe the PPI's twice per day. I had multiple tests that were repeated over time to confirm reflux and see how the treatments were working. Granted, I did end up on high-dose PPI's and it is long-term, but it was with careful deliberation on my part and the part of multiple doctors. While I'm not comfortable with the long-term risks, the benefits far outweigh those risks in my case. (My reflux is literally life-threatening because the acid inflames my lungs at times and I can't breathe.)

As for throat irritation, my ENT did a couple tests (not just a look at the throat). He gave me breathing exercises and holistic things to try. He did want me to try the low dose anti-depressants, but even at the lowest dose, they really knock me out. His goal is to help me "calm" my vocal cords down.

I think it is a good thing you have done your research. More people really should. I think that is why many of us are on these boards. I do worry that you are advocating something that might only apply to some and not all. Some of us truly do have confirmed severe acid reflux. (My testing has confirmed I have acid in the gaseous form coming up into my throat during the majority of the day.) What you are sharing is certainly something we can bring to discuss with our doctors, but I caution people to look at all options in deciding upon their personal course of treatment.
These are all good and balanced points you are making.

However, I want to repeat that I think this applies to mainly to people whose suspected LPR began with a very sudden onset, usually after some kind of damage to the larynx (mainly viral).

Because I think people who happen to have neuropathy rather than LPR will often be on these boards. The LPR treatments will not work for them, so they will go to these boards in frustration.

But I will probably put some specific quotations from the articles I've read and downloaded in the coming days to help make a point about laryngeal sensory neuropathy.

Another thing is the problem of ppis in double blind studies show that they do as much for laryngeal symptoms as placebos. In several recent studies, placebo taking patients had relief of their symptoms at a slightly higher rate than those taking ppis. In your case, Mountain Reader, and others who "taste" acid or have accompanying gastro-intestinal issues, you have good reason to believe LPR is a good part of your problem.

But if you look at the symptoms of Laryngeal Sensory Neuropathy, or Post Viral Vagal Neuropathy, they are the exact same symptoms as LPR. So with LPR being very well-known, and LSN being barely known at all, all people who exhibit those symptoms are going to be treated for LPR. In my case, I tried various combinations of ppis and lifestyle changes, and what I've found is, drinking espresso, eating at mcdonalds, and drinking frequently has caused some improvement in my case. I can't really explain that, if my case is related to acid reflux.

Also, this is a really important thing to think about: There are people on this board who say "after i got a cold, my lpr came back." or "my lpr goes for 2 or 3 months after i get a cold, and then disappears. Every time it's 2 or 3 months." How can that possibly be explained as acid reflux?

Another thing that bothers me is the questionable research of Jamie Koufman who is the authority on LPR. I know a lot of you have actually met her in person to sort out your LPR. She used to say in the 80s it was just basically GERD, but then as studies started to show that normal healthy people could give the exact same readings as LPR symptom sufferers, she started to say things like "only 3 drops of pepsin a week could damage the larynx tissues." She even tried to release some product called "Peptigon" in 2008, which never materialized, but its garish website is still up. I encourage you all to take a look. The point is this: When it was called into question that acid could do this, she switched and said it was pepsin, because the evidence increasingly made it hard for other doctors to believe that acid could be causing the laryngeal symptoms. Then she had to say "3 drops" a week could cause lasting damage. She has also tried saying that somehow LPR patients have different weaker cells in their larynx that can't defend the tissue as readily. I just find that all hard to swallow, personally.

If that was the case, wouldn't every annorexic in the world have LPR symptoms from their regular vomiting. Surely acid and pepsin gets prolonged exposure to their larynxes.

Another thing is when people say that the globus feeling is your upper esophageal sphincter muscles squeezing together to keep the acid out, it sounds like some kind of goofy folk wisdom to me. Like medieval medicine is alive and well in the 21st century.

Ok, I can't throw LPR out, because for one thing, I'm not a doctor. But what I'd suggest is that many of us on this board probably do not have reflux issues. If you have tried the LPR lifestyle changes and drugs, and have not seen improvement for months, and if your LPR had a mysteriously sudden onset for something that is supposed to be a chronic problem......then you might want to consider that you in fact have the little known laryngeal sensory neuropathy. If indeed you do, your chances of feeling well again taking neuropathic drugs are much much better than the 15-40 percent who experience relief after months of ppis.

In any case, we all (whether we have LPR or LSN, or PVVN, or some yet undiscovered throat fibro-myalgia/evil spirit) are victims of a lack of understanding and a lack of effective treatments for our illness. I hope you all can agree with that. How many people on this message board have actually gone through with surgery to screw your stomach up so tight, you can't even burp, and you are still clearing your throat and coughing chronically? If that has happened, you just might want to consider that you have a nervous system problem. Anyway, I can't see how my advice would cause more harm than a life changing, painful, expensive surgery that never brought you any relief of your symptoms.

So that's my two cents. I'm meeting the neurologist again on Monday. I sent him the articles I have mentioned, and he discussed it with the other neurologists. He also describes pregabalin as a "beautiful drug" because of its low side effects.

P.S. Jamie Koufman's article "chronic cough" describes her using neuro drugs to treat laryngeal symptoms. It came out in 2010.
I just want to add something that is really important to explain my point of view that we should look first to the idea of neuropathy, even when LPR seems to be a real and common problem. LPR must be real when you consider that some people's LPR symptoms went away after surgery, or that their LPR symptoms flare up in relation to their GERD symptoms.

In the largest ever PPI trial by Vaezi and other doctors, using placebos and a double blind (neither doctors or patients knew if they had a placebo or a real ppi), the results were disastrous. I think it was done in 2007 or something. 15% of the ppi people got better, 15% of the placebo people did. And there were hundreds of patients. It was kind of a disastrous result for those who cling to ppis. The study was strictly for those who had LPR laryngeal symptoms.

On the other hand.... In the case of recent treatment studies of suspected laryngeal neuropathy, the patients had complaints that were totally various, just like how we "LPR" patients always have to ask each other, "what are your symptoms?.." In the studies by Sycamore and Halum, and Peak Woo and Lee, they treated symptoms as diverse as chronic cough, painful speaking, globus, chronic throat clearing and hoarseness, painful swallowing, etc. as neuropathy. They also treated people whether they tested positive for neuropathy or not (motor dysfunction). Lee and Woo had improvement for 68%. In the case of Halum and Sycamore, who may have done more than 1 study, the results were somewhere closer to 90%.

In one study I saw and can't remember now, 38% of people who had no sign that they had neuropathy still improved with pregabalin. So that still beats the results of the largest double blind placebo vs ppi study ever done. You still have a better chance taking these kind of drugs than ppis is what I got out of it.

I mean, hypothetically, people who don't have nerve damage might have a better chance of improving with nerve drugs than ppis, even if reflux is the problem. That's how I read it anyway, and I understand if people disagree with that. However, don't forget, you could combine reflux drugs nerve drugs/anti-depressants with ppis and just cover all the bases.

I just am saying: If every person who came into an ENT's office with our various complaints were put on a trial of 3 or 4 months with gabapentin/pregabalin and elavil, I wonder if our overall rate of improvement wouldn't be a lot higher than it is when we are defaulted to ppis. That would be interesting to see....
[QUOTE=Seeking Sunrise;4637585]I just want to add something that is really important to explain my point of view that we should look first to the idea of neuropathy, even when LPR seems to be a real and common problem. LPR must be real when you consider that some people's LPR symptoms went away after surgery, or that their LPR symptoms flare up in relation to their GERD symptoms.

In the largest ever PPI trial by Vaezi and other doctors, using placebos and a double blind (neither doctors or patients knew if they had a placebo or a real ppi), the results were disastrous. I think it was done in 2007 or something. 15% of the ppi people got better, 15% of the placebo people did. And there were hundreds of patients. It was kind of a disastrous result for those who cling to ppis. The study was strictly for those who had LPR laryngeal symptoms.

On the other hand.... In the case of recent treatment studies of suspected laryngeal neuropathy, the patients had complaints that were totally various, just like how we "LPR" patients always have to ask each other, "what are your symptoms?.." In the studies by Sycamore and Halum, and Peak Woo and Lee, they treated symptoms as diverse as chronic cough, painful speaking, globus, chronic throat clearing and hoarseness, painful swallowing, etc. as neuropathy. They also treated people whether they tested positive for neuropathy or not (motor dysfunction). Lee and Woo had improvement for 68%. In the case of Halum and Sycamore, who may have done more than 1 study, the results were somewhere closer to 90%.

In one study I saw and can't remember now, 38% of people who had no sign that they had neuropathy still improved with pregabalin. So that still beats the results of the largest double blind placebo vs ppi study ever done. You still have a better chance taking these kind of drugs than ppis is what I got out of it.

I mean, hypothetically, people who don't have nerve damage might have a better chance of improving with nerve drugs than ppis, even if reflux is the problem. That's how I read it anyway, and I understand if people disagree with that. However, don't forget, you could combine reflux drugs nerve drugs/anti-depressants with ppis and just cover all the bases.

I just am saying: If every person who came into an ENT's office with our various complaints were put on a trial of 3 or 4 months with gabapentin/pregabalin and elavil, I wonder if our overall rate of improvement wouldn't be a lot higher than it is when we are defaulted to ppis. That would be interesting to see....[/QUOTE]

can you please give me the links of the studies/trials you mention
Hi!
Sorry about the late response..
Lately I've been taking lyrica (no side effects except one that is actually kind of beneficial and doesn't deserve to be mentioned). I can't say with complete certainty, but taking lyrica seems to coincide with me feeling much better. Today was my best day since about October 5th, when this whole nightmare started.
But still there remains a slight twinge at the left side of my throat that comes and goes, and makes me think that perhaps, if a doctor was guided to look at that exact spot, or if an MRI was taken, they would detect "something."
Like you said (I'll paraphrase it), and I think every "LPR" patient has to have this as their mantra:

A little problem in the throat/mouth area amounts to a big problem in how you sense it.

Sadly, people use that as a justification to believe they have a reflux issue, when in many (most, I believe. I'm not a doctor though) cases, reflux has zero to do with our throat issues.

I think it was, and will one day be proven to be, a horrifying mistake that many of the people on this board are working to try to treat reflux. Even if reflux treatments work for some of them, that's more or less coincidental. Supposedly, it was found in the medical journal article "Back to the diagnosis of silent GERD" that ppis have an anti-inflammatory effect (like advil, I guess). That accounts for a few of the apparent ways it can help LPR patients.

But if that is the case, wouldn't it be better if LPR patients just took tylenol and did a service to their hearts at the same time, rather than permanently messing up their own digestive tracts?

I think your post is really so encouraging, as were those of Aswander because you are living proof that these symptoms in the throat were actually not related IN ANY WAY to reflux, despite the fact that you both suffered the same exact symptoms that people suffer who believe they have a type of reflux.

You guys are living proof that LPR is not the only thing that causes this laterality of symptoms. I believe and hope that when the actual problem is removed from your throat in a few days, you will recover. And when you do, don't forget to post for all of us! We all need to hear it.
For the people who are on PPI's and have mucus/throat clearing problems have you gone for a manometry? If no,t how do you know if your LES and UES are working properly? As I mentioned earlier in this thread my LES was working properly and only slightly relaxed but had a screwy UES. I had severe mucus in my throat which was only eliminated by ppis along with low fat low acid diet and avoiding all food that would loosen LES and sleeping on an incline. If your mucus is caused by acid or pepsin you will never get rid of it without avoiding high acid foods. I am living proof of that.


The point I am making is people like us have complex problems. Doctors treat us for one thing but not multiple causing our frustration of not being cured of all our symptoms. We may have a nerve issues + LPR + motility ..... My LPR/GERD was probably resulted in damaging my vagus nerve which in turn gave me a motility issue. But lets just say I refluxed twice a week into my throat. Thats all it could take to prevent my nerves to heal or better yet over time continue to be damaged. So in turn I may have just had reflux and now I have LPR, vagus nerve damage and a motility problem. Symptoms manifest and things getting really complex to properly diagnose.

Dont stop one drug unless youve taken tests to properly diagnose what the root causes are.
Hi .. I'm not worried about the cancer risk either. I have rheum arthritis and take some meds that can increase cancer risk but my r/a is now with these medications is under control and I can finally lead a better quality improved life that its not something I dwell on. I didn't mean for it to sound like it was something I feared the most or wanted anyone to be fearful. I am a cancer survivor and wanted to mention. When I did my search, that was one of the differences of GERD and LPR. The LPR had a risk of squamous cell cancer of the larnyx and rare risk of esophogeal adenomcarcinoma. The GERD info stated that is had no risk of the squamous but risk of esophageal adenocarcinoma.

There is an increased risk of cancer as we age anyway. I've had other illnesses that mimic cancer but didn't have cancer. Just be vigilant about check ups and getting your tests done when needed.

So..didn't mean to sound like I was fear mongering. I'll try to post that site.





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