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Liver & Pancreas Disorders Message Board

Liver & Pancreas Disorders Board Index

hi dave. believe me, i can understand your concern here with your bili being high(what exactly IS your bili number and what is that labs particular referrence ranges? the 'norm' ranges should be listed ON the lab sheet to the far R usually, not all labs ranges are spot on the same. there can be variables with any given lab and how they 'do' them). are you at ALL jaundiced at this point or is everything still normal? the one thing it appears you have not researched or considered is this 'could be' involving your liver, OR it could be a gall bladder issue a pancreatic issue, bile duct problem among other possibles. the fact that no other hepatic indicator numbers were out of range kind of could very well indicate 'other' reasons than just 'only' a possible liver issue. do you know if this was your direct or indirect bili? that too would tell more if liver related or possibly some other 'part' of your upper GI organs or bile duct obstruction.

a high bili count is usually from the function that destroys old red blood cells is simply not for some reson working properly or any other 'part/organ" also involved in THAT particular process is 'not right' too. what i am trying to say here dave is this just may not be a total flat out liver issue but anything involved in that upper GI that is simply not working up to par giving you that higher than norm bili number. you know what i mean? that upper GI is all very highly interconnected in doing certain jobs in our bodies,so if any 'part' of it that is involved in any particular "process" is blocked, or just having some type of problem, it will show itself in some way. the fact every other number is within the norm range, (is this all midrange numbers or are ANY on that higher end of normal? that matters here too)coul;d indicate another much less impactful issue is the underlying reason.

you simply cannot 'assume' anything right now without that needed ultrasound that will actually look really really well at your entire upper GI system to see how well things are working or any possible abnormailities within it too. i have both a kidney and liver disease myself and a son who went thru a liver tx back in 2000, and i can tell you, getting that US done really can tell and show/rule out alot. i have to have one every year just to check on my overall cystic development.

but when my son was actually down to only having 20% of his liver function left when he was first Dxed IN liver failure, the one thing that i simply 'expected' to be there since this WAS a liver impact that was very severe was actual jaundice. he did NOT even have a really high or just very slightly high bili number yet. jaundice in him took many months later only when he developed pancreatitis for some reason, but THAT is when his bili really shot up and THEN we saw jaundice in his eyes for the very first time, and not at all before then. i really was shocked since i always believed that if there is a liver issue, you just have jaundice kind of automatically? not so..

dave, you seriously DO NEED to reset that US appt to even find out what IS behind the higher bili. this just could be so many other possibles that really are not a very direct response to liver only. it just has other possibles besides that liver itself too. but you really need to know for certain whats behind this so you can even recieve possible treatment that even could rid you of it. even having GB problems can bring on jaundice depending upon what is impacting it. this is why that one very telling US IS needed at all dave. fear of the unknown can make us do sooo many things we KNOW we should not be doing since we appear convinced its something we do not want to hear or know about. trust me, i HAVE been there too. but this is the ONLY way to know dave. you have already 'sentenced" yourself pretty much to death here with ONLY a blood test showing one potential liver funtion indicator out of norm. my sons enzymes were off the dang charts along with his alk phos too, but bili, pretty dang low considering. so you just truely NEED that US to see whats up.

i really do hope for your sake and your possible familys sake here that you will override that fear and get back on track and set up that one US dave. it really will help to find out what IS the underlying culprit for that bili being up. knowing what 'high' is as far as your actual number would help alot if you have the sheet. if you do not have your own lab sheets, start getting them anytime you have ANY testing done for your own records and to compare to. but DO make that call and get that US done dave,really. you just DO NEED that test done. i wish you luck with this and hope this is something that is easily treated in some way. while it just 'could' be your liver, it has much more liklyhood of other possibles considering you have had that bili up for quite some time and NO OTHER indicators of function loss in your liver at all at this point? that IS a good sign anyways. please do keep me posted dave,K? now make that appt. marcia
DO NOT CANCEL that US dave, seriously. i know when you feel great its hard to wrap your head around anything seriously being 'wrong' inside out bodies. but trust me dave, this IS one of those situations where if you already KNOW something is just not within the normal, the earlier it is caught and possible treatment beings for whatever IS the underlying culprtit here(could be soo many more "benign/smaller things doing this), the better the potential outcome for the patient.

honestly dave, i was living my entire LIFE with an underlying polycystic kidney disease that was creating huge globs of cysts in my kidneys and liver and never knew it mostly becasue i DID feel great and my labs were ALL totally in most cases, even way above the norm end with some. so even 'telling me' i could even possibly have this going on(we were told it HAD to have come from me or my hubs, and i assumed it just HAD to be HIM since i felt so good and labs all normal) after my son 'presented with his mutated version of this disease and then seeing my US and what looked to me like some pretty big black holes in those organs just totally blew me away. and up til two years ago, despite MAJOR damage in thse organs, THAT is when they simply finally even 'started" to show the function losses with small changes with my labs a creepin up but still within the higher end of normal. but it was ONLY by ultrasound that i knew for certain i even had this stupid disease at all. and so does my sister who also felt great.

your bili, while it is out of the norm range would NOT at all be considered a 'critical' number unless it actually gets ALOT higher, more around 12.0 mg/dl for an adult and 15 for newborn. you are no where NEAR that level. having 2.3 IS very MUCH on the lower side and merely is indicating that some 'part' of the whole process is not working as it should right now,and that whole process actually begins within the spleen and whats called the 'reticuloendothelial system'. if you really want more in depth info on this 'system/process, simply do some searches on THAT particular system dave.

like i mentioned above, there just ARE many other possible reasons here for "just' ones bili to be slightly out of range that seriously can be as little a gallstone blocking an extrahepatic bile duct to some types of possible medications you just could be taking that CAN and do just have the potential to raise ones bili up out of range but other liver numbers all normal(as example, statins can very easily raise up ones other liver enzymes, ya know what i mean?). the mere fact that your other hepatics ARE normal really IS a great thing for YOU right now. this IS only 1 particular lab dave and not like a whole bunch of others added to this too. if your actual AST ALT and alk phos were up as well, THEN i would be concerned solely for your liver, but they are NOT at all.

the "norm' range for an adult bili and this also includes whats called direct and indirect numbers and should be written that way too on your lab sheet? the "indirect" is usually between 0.2-0.8 mg/dL. while the direct is 0.1-0.3 mg/dL. but like i mentioned above, that really critical value of the 12.0 is way way beyond what yours currently is at 2.3, so you still are well below THAT and would generally not EVEN show true jaundice at that much lower level either. simply no where near enough spent/not processed RBCs floating around in your bloodstream to EVEN create possible jaundice. it IS still functioning in getting rid of 'most' spent RBCs here, just something not 'quite" up to total par is giving that out of range number, and that just IS the main thing your doc and you need to find out for you with the US as a good type of test in 'seeing' what just needs to be seen.

the mere fact dave that you HAVE had this higher than norm bili with NO other symptoms or esp enzymes out of norm could be very easily explaind, but ONLY once they have actually just taken that 'good look' at your liver and the rest of your upper GI with the US and that amazing doppler they use to see all 'flows' in realtime too. it just seriously has needed to be done since you first started having the above the norm bili. you need to find out the 'whys' in this. once you do that, THEN you get into what IS the underlying culprit, and what can be done. maybe this just is a more 'your normal' than for most people too, ya know what i mean(certain labs CAN very easily change as we get older too, among other possibles)? some people, and this IS dependant upon their very own highly unique overall bodies physiology can have a 'normal' level of certain lab values that just ARE not within the 'norm values" that are only a moderate 'standard set of ratios by national average" and not written in stone for them only. its how we just are and also ANY actual meds/suppliments you are taking or have been taking too can create abnormal lab values as well. a higher number in our labs does NOT in all cases mean something 'dire' is going on, thats why they DO simply order specific tests to rule something in or out as the underlying "problem". so you really wont know anything more solid here intil you just DO get that one US that shows your whloe upper GI.

just PLEASE, for your sake dave, do NOT cancel this test again. trust me, i KNOW how you are feeling right now, but this just has to finally be figured out, and the ONLY way is with deeper further testing which you WILL get done today. just make sure to tell the place that is doing this that you also WANT your own copy of the US report sent to your home once it gets done. i do this with EVERY freaking test i ever have or my son just so I see it and can read it on my own. its also good when any labs are out of norm range to have all lab sheets for your comparritive purposes too. or you can also ask your doc for any copies of anything that gets 'done' on you too. everyone HAS the right to their own test results and also your own copies of medical records too, which considering everything, may not be a bad idea to also obtain too? the records from esp your primary doc contain notes he or she makes after every single visit they just have with any pantient(called 'clinic notes'). this also gives what 'their" overall impressions just are too about any given medical issue you present with along the way.

i do this, for my many conditions about every six months for one doc i have to see every month, and the others, about once a year, or two, depending. this helps ME to better understand what my doc thinks about a specific condition, and most importantly, is he listening and are we BOTH on the very same page too. its just very helpful to know this stuff.

just DO follow thru with that US dave. its time to really just get that good looksee inside of your upper GI to possibly get some answers here. i WILL be here for whatever you may need to ask dave. just get the copies of any reports, it really DOES help tons more in seeing how any interpretting radiologist simply 'words' certain types of findings. and who knows, maybe nothing will show? ya never know til ya look inside. good luck today dave, and please DO keep me posted on anything you find out too,K? marcia

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