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Acid Reflux / GERD Message Board


Acid Reflux / GERD Board Index


I have been reading that Apple Cider Vinegar is great for reflux.
Has anyone tried it and does it work? You are supposed to take 2 to 3 tsp. with water and drink it once or twice a day......I am tempted to try it.....I am off my prilisec and have noticed that my symptoms are slight.....Don't want them to return. I felt great while on the Prilisec but don't want to take that forever.....comments? bride527
I'm currently gathering courage to try ACV. It's on the bench taunting me. I hear it can be either very good or very bad. It can make some people throw up. And I don't want to throw up. I hate throwing up. I'm sure no one likes it, but I absolutely hate it. Hate hate hate. I would rather endure the hours of agony than throw up. I'd rather do pretty much anything than throw up.

Update: I'm drinking it now. It isn't too bad actually. It doesn't taste like chocolate or anything, but it isn't lethal-tasting. I used it in hot water and honey, which probably helps soften the taste.
[QUOTE=bride527;4039610]I have been reading that Apple Cider Vinegar is great for reflux.
Has anyone tried it and does it work? You are supposed to take 2 to 3 tsp. with water and drink it once or twice a day......I am tempted to try it.....I am off my prilisec and have noticed that my symptoms are slight.....Don't want them to return. I felt great while on the Prilisec but don't want to take that forever.....comments? bride527[/QUOTE]

It didn't work for me. But I only did it a few times. How long are you supposed to do it before it starts working? I read that you are supposed to mix in 1 teasp. of raw honey with it. I've also tried apples, Aloe Vera juice, Zegerid, Prilosec, and Nexium. Nothing works for me.
My doctor recently "prescribed" apple cider vinegar therapy to me for my acid reflux, as I've been on Prevacid for 9 years and have decided that I need to get off of it, in light of the recent news that long term PPI use can contribute to hip and jaw fractures.

I'm to take 1-2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar before each meal each day. She told me I could mix it with water if I wanted but that most people just "shoot it" so that's what I do. I just take 1 tsp straight. It's also acceptable to get my dose as salad dressing.

I started taking ACV about 2 weeks ago. I stopped taking Prevacid 3 days ago. So far I don't have any heartburn and I've only refluxed once. I must admit I haven't been entirely consistent with taking ACV before every meal and I need to try harder to give it a fair shot, but so far I'm pleased with the results and I really want to get off of Prevacid entirely- both for my health, and for my wallet. My insurance does not cover Prevacid (acid reflux was a pre-existing condition that I had before I got this insurance) and Rx Prevacid costs me over $100 a month.

The key thing is to ensure you are getting raw, unfiltered ACV with "the mother" in it. If it's been pasteurized, it won't work.
[QUOTE=bride527;4039610]I have been reading that Apple Cider Vinegar is great for reflux.
Has anyone tried it and does it work? You are supposed to take 2 to 3 tsp. with water and drink it once or twice a day......I am tempted to try it.....I am off my prilisec and have noticed that my symptoms are slight.....Don't want them to return. I felt great while on the Prilisec but don't want to take that forever.....comments? bride527[/QUOTE]
Apple Cider Vinegar is worked for acid reflux. I have acid reflux for many years. I have tried Apple Cider Vinegar the one Raw-Unfiltered Apple Cider Vinegar "With The Mother" at Mother's Market in Huntington Beach City, Ca. I put one table spoon apple cider vinegar in a small cup and a little bit water. Then stir it together and drink. About a few minutes later, I feel better. If you don't want acid reflux come back again so don't eat foods that have a lot of acid.
Sure, I'll do my best:)

Well, when you have a weak acid, most of it does not what we call "dissociate" in water. In other words, when you put acetic acid in water, most of it stays acetic acid and does not dissociate into ions.

However, some of it does, which is why it is considered an acid; a small amount of dissociation takes place. The smaller the amount of dissociation in water, the weaker the acid. HCl on the other hand, is a very strong acid and will dissociate nearly completely in water, with very little actual HCl remaining.

Acetic acid (the vinegar we are talking about) has the chemical formula:
CH3COOH.

Add that to water and you get a very small amount of H3O+ and CH3COO- ions. The second ion I listed with the negative charge is the acetate ion.

How does this work? When you get acid reflux, there is an overproduction of HCl in the stomach. The HCl is a strong acid and dissociates completely to
H3O+ and Cl- ions. You CANNOT reform strong acids but you CAN reform weak acids.

To that end, the acetate ion from the acetic acid will rapidly react with the
H3O+ ions in your stomach and readily form acetic acid again. Since the offending ions are the H3O+ ions and NOT the actual HCl as explained above, the acetate ion can keep reacting with H3O+ ions to form acetic acid, which is allowed because acetic acid is weak. The Cl- cannot react with H3O+ and reform HCl because Cl- is too weak and you cannot reform a strong acid, which HCl is.

In summary, the acetate ion reacts with the H3O+ ions from your stomach acid to form acetic acid, thereby reducing the overall acidity in your stomach. Acidity is caused by H3O+ ions, not necessarily the actual acids present in your stomach.

Keep in mind that there are other weak acids out there that might potentially work. However, vinegar is so readily available and effective that finding another isn't really necessary.

Your almond question? I don't know off the top of my head but I will look into it.
[QUOTE=bdrunner79;4303315]Sure, I'll do my best:)

Well, when you have a weak acid, most of it does not what we call "dissociate" in water. In other words, when you put acetic acid in water, most of it stays acetic acid and does not dissociate into ions.

However, some of it does, which is why it is considered an acid; a small amount of dissociation takes place. The smaller the amount of dissociation in water, the weaker the acid. HCl on the other hand, is a very strong acid and will dissociate nearly completely in water, with very little actual HCl remaining.

Acetic acid (the vinegar we are talking about) has the chemical formula:
CH3COOH.

Add that to water and you get a very small amount of H3O+ and CH3COO- ions. The second ion I listed with the negative charge is the acetate ion.

How does this work? When you get acid reflux, there is an overproduction of HCl in the stomach. The HCl is a strong acid and dissociates completely to
H3O+ and Cl- ions. You CANNOT reform strong acids but you CAN reform weak acids.

To that end, the acetate ion from the acetic acid will rapidly react with the
H3O+ ions in your stomach and readily form acetic acid again. Since the offending ions are the H3O+ ions and NOT the actual HCl as explained above, the acetate ion can keep reacting with H3O+ ions to form acetic acid, which is allowed because acetic acid is weak. The Cl- cannot react with H3O+ and reform HCl because Cl- is too weak and you cannot reform a strong acid, which HCl is.

In summary, the acetate ion reacts with the H3O+ ions from your stomach acid to form acetic acid, thereby reducing the overall acidity in your stomach. Acidity is caused by H3O+ ions, not necessarily the actual acids present in your stomach.

Keep in mind that there are other weak acids out there that might potentially work. However, vinegar is so readily available and effective that finding another isn't really necessary.

Your almond question? I don't know off the top of my head but I will look into it.[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this. Not being very savvy in chemistry (have not looked at a chemistry textbook since high school many moons ago), I have been looking for a logical explanation regarding why this old remedy might work. There is not much out there in terms of a scientific explanation. I wonder if the same result can be achieved with diluted lemmon juice. I have found that a glass of water with a bit of lemmon juice works well for me. Not as well as the vinegar, but certainly tastier.

Given your explanation, any type of vinegar should work. It does not have to be the "organic" type with the mother, etc. Your explanation should also apply to those who find that pickle juice works for them. I am assuming all these substances are weaker acids with a higher PH.

Thanks again for taking the time. I am going to try to remember this explanation so I can pass it on intelligently when the topic arises again in the future and others ask the question.

Rose
Sure no problem at all. I hope it made sense.

To extrapolate your discussion to an absolute measurement, if you remember from chemistry the measure of dissociation for acids is called the Ka. The negative logarithm is the pKa. The lower the pKa, the stronger the acid. For instance, HCl is -4.

I looked up some data and found that acetic acid's pKa is 4.75, which is pretty weak. Lemon juice could have citric acid, which has 3 hydrogens to lose vs. 1 hydrogen in acetic acid. So it has 3 chances to lose a hydrogen, and consequently has 3 pKa's, depending on what hydrogen you're talking. The first hydrogen to go has a pKa of 3.13, second is 4.76, and the third is 6.40. Phosphoric acid also has 3 pKa's, of 2.15, 7.20 and 12.35.

Why is this important you're probably asking, haha. Well, in this narrow case, if you are trying to buffer the HCl, with a pKa of -4, you'd want a weak acid with its first pKa as far away as possible. So acetic acid has 4.75, which is better than 3.13 and 2.15, which fully explains why vinegar works better for you vs. lemon juice. Lemon juice will work, not as well, and certainly tastes better though.

Here's another thought though. Just because acetic acid is labeled an acid and usually is an acid, we simply label things based on what they behave as in WATER. If you would mix acetic acid with HCl, like you do in your stomach, it is actually acting as a BASE, not an acid. It depends on what else is present. Water is a weaker acid than acetic acid, so acetic acid "gets" to act as an acid. However, when mixed with HCl, HCl is the stronger acid, so acetic acid is the base.

There's a lot more to it of course, but I think I've given everyone (and myself) a headache at this point in the evening.

And yes, any vinegar works just fine.
[QUOTE=dcguy;4590167]Can anyone confirm if this is true? I can't find the organic mother type near me, so don't want to order online if I don't have to. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

I think that, if one looks at this scientifically, any type of apple cider vinegar should work. I use Braggs when I use it to drink with water because I can find it in the health food store. I think the vinegar works or helps because it neutralizes the acid. There is probably nothing magical about apple cider vinegar. I used balsamic vinegar in my salads and find that I have better digestion when I use it too. You may want to try a nice balsamic vinegar in your salads with dinner and see if that helps your heartburn.

Rose
[QUOTE=rosebloom;4590342]I think that, if one looks at this scientifically, any type of apple cider vinegar should work. I use Braggs when I use it to drink with water because I can find it in the health food store. I think the vinegar works or helps because it neutralizes the acid. There is probably nothing magical about apple cider vinegar. I used balsamic vinegar in my salads and find that I have better digestion when I use it too. You may want to try a nice balsamic vinegar in your salads with dinner and see if that helps your heartburn.

Rose[/QUOTE]

Correct. The mother or whatever, isn't involved in acid reflux at all. It's the acetic acid which all vinegar has.





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