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Well like the above above above poster said, you can acheive lean muscle if you follow a paleolithic type of diet. So I'm guessing that his program follows along those lines and I'm excited to see how it all plays out ;-)

Now as to what Prometheus said, you are correct. I was just reading the January 2004 [I]Consumer Reports [/I] (pg 12 - 16) and it was talking surprisingly [B]Honestly[/B] (some may think of it as negative) about the food industry and the government's role. It brought to light a lot of things such as the fact that $20 billion dollars is used to subsidize Farmers. Ha ha, but not just any farmers, the ones that produce CORN (basis of hidden sugar in soft drinks, etc), Wheat, Soybean, and Sugar! [B]The more they produce, the more money the government gives them.....so Of course it's CHEAPER [/B] =/ It's all about supply and demand, the more you have, the cheaper it is. These funds provided by the government cover HALF of these farmers salaries!

The really sad part is that's why[B] Fruits and Vegetables are more expensive because THEY ARE NOT SUBSIDIZED! [/B] There was a man who was trying to get something implemented along these lines [U]where you paid extra for the fast food, but if you ordered a salad or fruit, you would pay less (due to being subsidized) .....still hasn't happened.[/U] I think the reason was because it angered people to be told how to live thier lives (natural selection will take care that then). They felt that they shouldn't have to pay a "fat tax" on food (or their based on their weight), yet since the early 80s, Fruits and Vegetables price have risen nearly 130% whereas, junk foods haven't! Instead, Fats/oils have risen 57%, [B]Soda/Soft Drinks have only risen 26%,[/B] and Beef fed on cheap grains (corn) have risen 50%!!!! So who has more right to be angry here?

I nearly felt like crying because this is where our tax dollars go. Our tax dollars pay for fruits and Veggies to be [U]more expensive [/U] and grains to be the [U]cheapest[/U] thing on the planet. Check this, [B]for around $2.50 Frito Lay gets 56 lbs of corn [/B] to make Doritos. Why can't we get such a deal like that on our apples, oranges, etc???? No, instead I get 1 bag of grapes for $2.50 and those were on sale for 88 cents/lb!

So basically our $20 billion dollars that comes from our hard earned money (I could use more of it back) goes toward the very thing that I for the most part, don't even consume! Not to mention, that more our money goes toward "educating" the public about Diabetes and Obesity....when Hello,[U] isn't this what's causing the problem to begin with???? [/U] Oh and this is the part that I loved, and was reaffirmed today at lunch, McDonald's Small Fries were the [U]only [/U] fries they had in the 50s and now they have 3 sizes more! So I go to lunch at Burger King, I get my Chicken Ceasar Salad and order the Small fries (I was craving salt) and they tell me, "we don't make a small anymore. Would it be OK if I gave you a Medium?" What? (No), but for 20cents more I get 2x as much (this was another thing mentioned in the article) and so I agreed. Before I drove on, I look at the Menu Board and it has Medium, Large, and Extra Large listed under Fries....Guess they aren't into doing their part, or at least this Franchisee isn't.

When I got up to the window to pay, I told the woman that was a very bad thing. Smalls are just the right size portion for me to eat. In fact that's how we are supposed to be eating things, in portions. So taking into consideration that [B]the size of your fist is one serving size[/B], isn't it easy to see how quickly one can consume beyond what the food pyramid suggests? When calculating my current carb intake I took into consideration that for certain foods I'm consuming 1 - 3 portions during a single meal. That only got me to 200 - 300g of carbohydrates a day, yet I'm consuming half the carbs that I used to soo doubling that brings me to 400 - 600g of Carbs on my old diet. Hence, it's VERY easy to see why some people go beyond the average (200g) and consume 800g or more of Carbohydrates a day. That's way too many carbs, no wonder we have soo many health problems. =(
Sweetjade,

Absolutely it is. I see people active in their 90's and that is how I want to be if I live that long. If you ask someone in their later years how much they would pay, if they could afford it, to be alive in health for another five years and you might be surprised. Calculate how much extra you pay a year for healthy food and you just might be surprised how much it is worth it, compared to how much people spend out of pocket on prescription drugs and surgeries. It is not a risky investment, either. You can be pretty sure of the outcome. I don't know where the economy is going and I can't rely on insurance or medicare, so I invest in my health because I believe it is one of the best assets. Yea, Mcdonald's and friends realize that the average consumer is becoming health conscious. It is in their best interest to offer this information and atleast, somewhat healthy options. What is interesting to me is that they offer the nutritional information on their online website, because I would suppose they figure the customers who are more health conscious are the ones that also have and use the internet. More marketting strategies. They still offer super size portions and notoriously substandard chemically engineered food that tastes great, for people who aren't as concerned.

That is an interesting food pyramid. I haven't seen that. It's certainly better than the actual one. Any food pyramid that puts vegetables at the bottom I'll be happy with, while I may personally disagree with the rest. For instance, I'm not an advocate of vegetable oils and I definitely don't think they should be included in every meal. I don't believe they lower bad cholesterol, and I don't believe they have the myriad of other redeeming qualities that they are alleged to have, especially after they are denatured by heat in cooking, where they become dangerous. Polyunsaturated vegetable oils may, according to some studies, increase the likelihood of developing some cancers. Any rancid oil is dangerous in the body. Vegetable oils are unstable, very delicate, and go rancid very easily. We get enough vegetable oil from the vegetables we eat, as long as we eat them. The only exception to this is olive oil in its pure unrefined virgin cold pressed state. This oil actually does have some redeeming qualities but it should not be used in abundance, or heated, if you ask me. I'm careful because heart disease runs in both sides of my family. While saturated fat is slowly but surely being vindicated, I'm not going to wait for the professionals and the media to say they were wrong about saturated fat. Vegetable oils aren't better for you. They are atleast acknowledging that the hydrogenated variety is hazardous. I cook with saturated fat, because it is stable at higher temperatures, and won't cause harm to my heart and body. Atleast, personally, I know I am doing ok because of my lipid profile. My cholesterol is high, but I am only high in the HDL, good cholesterol, which is ideal. I can't say it would be the same for anyone else, but I have to warn people, because I believe it was another factor in my acne.

No, I'm not grain free, but grains are not a large portion of my diet either. Like you, I'm not a fan. If anything, it is usually brown rice on the side. I never eat refined grains, for sure. One dish I eat is made up of avocados, lemon juice, brown rice, chopped tomatoes, and spices. This is very alkalizing in the body, which is good when you are tensed up or under stress. I can, and do, eat any other gluten free grain. I can eat spelt on occassion(which means no more than one portion a month), and certain combinations of grains in breads, even though it has gluten. I am not sure why this is. I am also not so sure we should be suggesting that people eat white rice here, especially since the objective of this thread was to get the bulk of the diet from grain or cheap foods. Brown rice is not that much more expensive and can be bought in bulk. If someone is going to eat a lot of grains it is atleast better to eat the unrefined variety.

Sweetjade, I have to ask you. You say it is alright for people with acne to eat some things that you do, because you are 99% clear, but aren't you off and on certain medications? Wouldn't you have to recommend them too?

I would bet that the new food pyramid has meat items on the bottom.

Oh, and you are right that fat doesn't make anyone fat. The only reason they are coming out with this now in mass, though, is because they don't need to sell anyone vegetable oil. People will still buy it. I would say Atkins is responsible for the popularization of the anti carb movement, but I'm not so sure. It does help people with their insulin resistence and type 2 diabetes, but I think this is only because they are avoiding the bad carbs too. Fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds are carbs everyone should be eating in bulk. I think looking at food as protein and carbs is very binary and, too black and white to be beneficial. But again, everyone will be praising low carb just as they were praising low fat. There is a strong genetic predisposition for obesity, which is very difficult to avoid if you have that gene. Obesity is either genetically inherited from the grand parents, or simply eating more than a person is supposed to, no matter what they are eating. This goes back to the super size junk and people not realizing the extra calories they eat in a day. Also, obesity is a big risk for insulin resistence but I haven't heard that it works the other way around.
[QUOTE=erica1213]So Sweetjade,
You eat ice cream and mcdonalds??!! I guess you've said in your posts before that you pretty much just avoid gluten, soda, bananas, and cherries... I get confused between you and those who dont eat ANYTHING refined (sugars, other processed foods, etc). Don't get me wrong, I think that those people who avoid all hydrogenated oils, and refined stuff are eating very healthy, but i'd rather have the things I MUST eliminate be at a minimum, because even though I'd like to eat that healthy, it's nice to not have to be TOTALLY paranoid about everything. Anyway, I know that it's individual and I have to figure out for myself what I need to avoid, but your little trip to Mickey D's gives me hope (although the fast food industry plays a large part in influencing the food industry, so I'm somewhat opposed, but that's another story...)
The only thing that confuses me about the whole diet issue, is whether the key is controlling blood sugar or if it's more a food sensitivity thing. Because avoiding gluten is not the same as eating a low carb diet. And it seems that people have reported that both have worked...
Maybe people who were on a low carb diet were actually just avoiding gluten without realizing it...[/QUOTE]

Erica and Arlo,
LOL, I understand that it can get quite confusing. I suppose you can look at our diets and the reasons they work, in terms of Carbs, in various ways. At one point even I was looking at it in the same terms as you. That the reason these Low Carb diets were working was because they were eliminating the problematic grains, yet I know that too much sugar in itself bothers me to. Regardless, what I can say is that eating [U]a Gluten Free diet is automatically a LOWER in Carb diet [/U] than what we are used to eating. Plus, if you only choose to eat Rice and Corn Grains and not the substitutes, then you've reduced your carbohydrate intake significantly, despite both of these being starches (especially if white)! =)

That's where I am at. I consume, usually refined at that, Rice, Corn, and/or Potato on a daily basis. However, I don't eat white rice or even whole grain rice on a daily basis. I tend to eat more corn or potato products, more so than I do rice. I suggest that if you can afford it, eat Whole Grains and Non-Refined, especially if you intend to consume rice on a daily basis. I'm capable of "getting away with it," but I'm not doing it everyday, so who knows what would happen if I did so.

We all have varying degrees of sensitivity and you may find that you are able to eat more "bad" foods, even though we know we should eat the best we possibly can. My trip to Burger King (he he...not McDonalds) was actually not a bad thing. I wasn't thrilled about eating a larger size than I wanted so I visited their website. I had a slight suspicion that their fries were covered in flour and it turned out that they use Rice Flour! Cool. Also, their French Fries contained only Partially Hydrogenated Soybean oil, and the rest of the oils, etc were normal & safe AND they didn't even have a bad preservative in it. Yes while they both contain weird chemicals, McDonald's French Fries (taste better) contain a bad Preservative, not to mention some highly allergenic Oils (may contain partially hydrogenated soybean oil and/or partially hydrogenated corn oil and/or partially hydrogenated canola oil and/or cottonseed oil and/or sunflower oil and/or corn oil). What on earth is someone with an allergy supposed to do??? Obviously not eat there when they can't decide which oil to fry their food in for the day. Sigh...I guess the good thing is that you can print out a list of Gluten Free Items from their website.

Now, in terms of hope, you could have more hope than I do ;-) I usually don't drink anything but water, especially when eating out. When I eat Fast Food I eat French Fries (if they look unbattered), Baked Chicken, Flavored Chicken Wings, Soups, Stews, Chilis (that look clear--means no flour), Tacos, Taquitos, Fajitas (no wheat tortilla shell), Tamales (corn wrapped beef or chicken), Taco Bell's Rice Bowls, certain types of Chinese, Japanese, & Korean Foods (I try not to use their soy sauce) Veggie Sticks, and Fruit Bowls. Wild Rice, Chedder & Broccolli Cassarole, Vegetable medleys, Mashed potatos, rosemary potatos, hashbrowns, mushrooms, omelets, Eggs, ham, bacon, sausage, Skillet Meals, Pork Chops, Ribs, Steaks, Grilled Fish, Chicken, Shrimp, etc at Resturants. Of course I order salads without the croutons at a resturant and fast food joints, but when it's at a sandwich shop, I just have them make my "sandwich" into a salad instead...yum. So, is that enough Freedom for ya?





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