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[QUOTE=openseason]Well nothing cured my acne and I think Accutane has too many permanent negative side effects. You seem to be back to square one that high insulin making foods like chocolate cause acne. Just isnt so.[/QUOTE]

Ahh, but that is a conclusion that was NEVER tested. They never bothered to test chocolate CANDY (sugar, dairy, fat) to see if it affected your insulin levels. They NEVER differentiated between Pure Cocoa and Chocolate CANDY. No, instead what they did was give groups of teenagers or college students (this horrid experiment has been repeated so many times) two types of chocolate:

[B]Experimental Group[/B] - Chocolate CANDY

[B]Control Group [/B] - Placebo Chocolate CANDY - only it didn't have chocolate, BUT it still had the same glycemic value, etc.

Therefore, all those tests did was show that it's possible that we aren't allergic or intolerant to Cocoa (I'm eating a dark chocolate right now), but it did nothing to eliminate the other discriminating factors (sugar, dairy, fats). Idiots.

Unfortunately, that right there is the problem when people follow Low Carbohydrate Diets or Low Fat Diets. People get it in their heads that all fats or carbs are bad, when there are different types for each. That instead of avoiding foods based on them only being refined, they should pay attention to how much fiber they contain, how much amylose (good starch) they have, whether it contains gluten (if you care), and then worry about the amount of sugar it provides.

When it comes to fats it's not a matter of what's "greasy", but about the type of fat. We've got good fats (omega 3s, unsaturated fats) & the problematic fats. So, yes animal saturated fats have been deemed problematic in a numerous studies. Yet, what we get [B]unknowingly[/B] is a lot of saturated-like fats that are from Trans fats and are considered much more detrimental (as they are foreign to our bodies). You probably are now seeing labeling or advertising that states that "this product has "0 Trans Fats'" but usually when you flip over the box, right there in the ingredient list will be "Partially Hydrogenated Oils" or Hydrogenated Oils (may be mislabled). LOL, if you've ever taken organic chemistry you would know that regarding Partially Hydrogenated Oils, they aren't completely hydrogenated and that the H atoms are on opposite (trans) sides of each other, thus TRANS FATs. That is very very scary, I'm guessing they don't have nutritionists working for them to properly assess their nutrient content. (surfing the web) Oh's a marketing ploy. The FDA allows them to state "0 Trans Fats" if there is less than 0.5g of trans fats per serving...well acne & healthwise, it still bothers me and other people.

Therefore, why are you relying on those highly outdated & incorrect studies, when I just posted for you a nice long list of studies dating back to 1977 - PRESENT that have shown an Insulin-Androgen Connection and how Diet can influence our Insulin & Androgen Production. I'm sorry if I didnt clarify this, but Insulin is not only involved in carbohydrate metabolism but also the storage of fats. These fats become cholesterol and cholesterol is what our Steriod Hormones (sex hormones-androgens, cortisol, etc) are made from. So, in light of how the body works and ALL of this information, why are you still holding on to such a highly detrimental fallacy?
[QUOTE=openseason]Jade if you look at the twin study you posted,[B] it states that the twins with acne had low levels of the good cholesterol. [/B] That would be a genetic problem not a food problem. [B]You prove my theory because you are eating dark chocolate and are 99 percent clear, and according to your theory thats impossible. [/B] What I am saying is that acne is an excess sebum production, which may br in response to androgens. However no young child has acne despite a diet of Captain Crunch cereal and Pop Tarts and chocolate milk. Why they dont have hormones thats why food isnt causing them acne.[/QUOTE]

Yup, that's why children generally don't have acne because their bodies haven't gone into [B]puberty [/B] (a temporary state of insulin resistance & hyperandrogenism). Although there are some children that begin puberty before the age of 8 and do get acne. Of course these children also end up having some sort of hormonal disorder, sometimes it is due to Insulin Resistance Syndrome.

Now as for your statement about the twin study THANK YOU for finally reading one of the studies I posted. =) Now, if you noticed they don't discuss what those twins ate. Yet even that isn't a huge deal because whether it is genetic or environment (diet) that is influencing their low HDL, a [B]Western Diet [/B] high in (refined) carbohydrates, animal saturated fats, trans fats, added sugar, and LOW in fiber [B]will ALSO lower your HDL levels[/B]. Therefore when a doctor sees this, they tell people to alter their diet.

If you have a higher risk, a certain ethnicities do, than the average individual, [B]the LAST thing you should do is eat foods that will CONTRIBUTE to this risk.[/B] That is why people with allergies avoid certain foods that cause them problems, genetic factor or not, [B]they KNOW that by avoiding what is [U]activating[/U] that gene or defect, they can [U]prevent[/U] the allergic reaction.[/B] Thus, if you are at a higher risk or are showing high levels, that is why doctors tell you to lower your bad (LDL) cholesterol levels through diet & exercise. Of course they will give you medication if you want it, but most people can do it through diet.

The funny thing is, the above Western Diet, what is contributing to an increase in [b]Insulin Resistance Syndrome, doesn't also just lower your HDL levels, but raises your Free Fatty Acids (some are inflammatory), also raises your Insulin levels, which lower your SHBG levels, and as a result, raise your Androgen levels.[/B] That is what all of those studies show when you actually READ them.

Yup, to test my sensitivity to sugar (I don't crave it), I occasionaly do eat dark chocolate or Gluten-Free Cookies/muffins that don't contain dairy, or trans fats, but do contain evaporated cane juice or brown rice syrup. If I eat enough (several pieces), I will develop a few small whiteheads/pustules that go away within 2 days. I'm very sensitive to all forms of added sugar, but table sugar & cane syrup don't have a big impact on me, especially compared to Corn Syrup & High Fructose Corn Syrup (Cystic acne).

99% clear is better than when I was on BC & Spiro, it was also better than when I was on Avandia & Spiro. Over the years, what have you done that had the BIGGEST impact on decreasing your acne?
[QUOTE=openseason]Well Jade the approch I have found is in the book "The Acne Cure". It is a three step program of washing first with salycic acid 2% solution to clean the skin. Then applying gycolic acid wash 8 to 10 % solution. Leave on a few minutes. Then applying cool benzoyl peroxide 5 % to cool skin, because the pores are opened with cool skin. This cleansing ritual is followed in the morning and night for a few weeks. The salycic acid cleans the skin surface, the glycolic acid loosens plugs of oil further down, and the benzoyl peroxide kills the bacteria. You need all three chemicals.
I was always against excessive washing and rubbing, but these 3 chemicals applied gently together stop the growth cycle of acne. This does not cure acne, but the skin will improve quite a lot. [B]Cystic acne is very deep and needs additional treatment. [/B] The book also states acne is genetic with a dominant gene. [B]If your parents had acne then you prorbably have it in the same place on your body such as face back or chest. [/B]
BTW in on study 50 teenagers with acne at the Univ. of Penn. fed 1 pound of cholate a day each. [B]Result no change [/B] in 46, 2 got better and 2 got worse. There is nothing in chocolate to cause acne except guilt[/QUOTE]

Hey, thanks for FINALLY sharing your regimen. I heard about the Acne Cure, long after I was following a similar method. I used to use 2%BHA & 10 - 20% (Sage Advice conc.) Glycolic on my skin, plus a 10% glycolic wash and it made me skin look as good as it did when I was using RetinA & Azelex! Of course, I was still on BC & 200mg Spiro at the same time and I didn't have clear skin at helped with texture & treating, but it didn't stop the breakouts.

BP and I don't get along. I've used it and yes it does dry them up, but it made my skin itch, sore, left ugly marks, & of course, bleached so many towels & shirts (before I fig. out that BP bleaches....years years ago), but I'm glad that works for you and of course Dan has his "The Regimen" so we KNOW it works, just... not for everyone.

Now, you said that you [B]had [/B] cystic acne, and that cystic acne can't be cured through topicals, so how did you get rid of your cystic acne?

Again, that study doesn't clear anything about the consumption of Chocolate Candy. How much & what type of Sugar? How much Dairy? How much & What type of Fats? All of those things are what matters and those are the factors that NONE of the chocolate studies have addressed.

Not to mention, [B]how can anyone know if they breakout from a food, if they consume that food on a daily basis???[/B] I avoided Chocolate candy & Soda for over 10 NEVER stopped my existing acne. I also avoided non-organic milk, and than organic milk for a period of NEVER stopped my existing acne. Yet,[B] once I ceased eating my MAJOR contributor, my skin started clearing up[/B] and I was able to see [U]how much [/U] the other foods/ingredients affected me (only 4%).

It was funny though because I thought Gluten-Free was my only answer, since it avoids the [B]bulk[/B] of my refined & carbohydrate consumption. So I thought "hey now I can pig out on chocolate candy (not fond of the after taste) and drink soda (don't like the carbonation)" WRONG. After a few months of having nice skin, I started consuming caffeine free sodas and within a few days...cystic acne. I stopped waited a while and tried it again, same thing happened. So HFCS & I don't get along, but at the time, I didn't realize that all sodas & non-100% fruit juces (prefer 100%) contained HFCS Corn Syrup, so I was still getting this form of sugar in certain foods & sauces. Yet once I eliminated it entirely, the cysts stopped.

Now I also avoid Nuts & The Almond Family as these give me cysts too. The way I discovered this was because I needed to eat other foods to make up for what I wasn't eating in bread products. So I started consuming more nuts. This was something that I would only do sporadically & for the holidays before I changed my diet. So when I started to eat them more often I started getting acne in areas that had previously been clear, well Peanuts, Cashews-Pistachios, Walnuts-Pecans were the source of it. Then I was primarily only eating almonds daily (they are good) as some of the others can cause acne for acne sufferers & sometimes nonsuffers (pistachio breaks out my coworker). I started [B]breaking out in NEW areas I had never broken out before[/B]: in between my eyebrows and all under my chin-neck region with really stubborn cysts! I finally figured out the problem this past summer with certain fruits and then finally gave up almonds about 2 months ago and problem solved. I did some research and it turns out that what I avoided were all the Almond Family: almonds, peaches, plums/prunes, nectarines. (I'm really hoping this has to do with having a leaky gut, which I can heal, as most people on this board that have cleared through diet don't usually avoid this much)

[B]After over 2 years tweeking & customizng my diet, I'm 99% clear, produce hardly any sebum, have the smallest pores I've seen in years, AND have no more horrible crippling crying on the floor menstrual pain. I'm a VERY happy woman =)[/B]

So anyway, yes I have acne in the same areas that my mother & father do. My father still breaks out a wee bit (eats peanuts & gluten), but my mother doesn't (she's gained weigh though). I'm guessing you have acne in the same areas as your father?

So let me see if I've got this straight, here's two people (female?) that have acne, and they know that it's genetic link because their parents had acne. Yet it could also be environmental in that whatever their parents were exposed to, their kids could also be exposed to. Regardless, [B]you believe that because it has a genetic influence that dietary changes can't correct it[/B], right? Well then, why have I? I'm not Gluten Intolerant, I'm not allergic to wheat, worked (Insulin-androgen-acne connection)

We both have high androgen levels and/or heightened androgen sensitivity in the skin, as either one has been associated with Acne Conglobata/ Fulminans, Vulgaris, etc, so why did dietary changes work better for me than other antiandrogens I've tried? Have you tried taking antiandrogens, what were your results? If not good, what could possibly account for our differences? Do you know the actual name for the type of acne you have?

I'm continually impressed with the research and work you've done. I'm so glad you're continuing to post on this board and teach what you've learned.

What advice would you give for someone who is attempting to go on a gluten-free, refined sugar free diet? I've known for ages that sugar and any type of soda are a major culprit to my acne, but I have struggled with gaining the will-power to avoid these foods. You'd think cystic acne would be enough motivation, but I'm one of those people who use food to comfort myself.

Basically I think I and others are looking for snack ideas and ways to avoid eating naughty foods when you're in a social situation. Meals are something I can easily plan for, but I have yet to find snacks that can tied me over between meals. I usually reach for packaged foods likes chips or crackers or string cheese and pig out on those.

Finally, would you be willing to share your favorite dinner recipe?

Do you think you will have a website devoted to what you've learned some day? Or will you save that for your doctoral dissertation? ;)

Thanks so much!
PinkGrape & Joe Dude,
LOL, I read your post yesterday Pinkgrape and it was sooo pumped full of energy. So missing the sugar hasn't hurt you in that respect, huh ;-) Since you both have problems with sugar, one possibility is that it’s a [U]sugar metabolism issue [/U] or it could be an [U]internal yeast (candida) issue[/U]. I suppose one way of knowing this is if you always breakout from consuming fruits. Sometimes, this would be due to taking antibiotics orally for years and if so, your diet will be very strict and not very fun, for at least one year until you kill of the yeast. Books such as The Yeast Connection, Anti-Candida Diet (if that exists), Body Ecology Diet, and perhaps even Breaking the Vicious Cycle (Specific Carbohydrate Diet) are what you want to follow.

Otherwise, the questions you asked I hear often and am still in the process of adapting to myself. I definitely think that there is a HUGE misconception that healthy for you food has to suck, but it doesn’t. With so many people out there with allergies & intolerances, and on “diets” they are making “good” tasting foods to suit everyone. If you don't know how to shop or how to cook, it doesn't matter, cuz I'm still learning how too. ;-)

There's two theories with produce: 2 Vegetables for every 1 Fruit or 2/3 of your diet is composed of vegetables. Choose Fruits that you enjoy and seem to tolerate & Vegatables that are high in fiber, Calcium & other nutrients AND that you enjoy. [u]Somethin is better than nothing so eat produce however you feel comfortable & in order of flavor pick:[/U]
Fresh / Packaged

Frozen or Precut
Prepared or Frozen Seasoned (watch the ingredients)
Applegate Farms (wasn't fond of their beef hotdogs)
Wellshire Farms meats & lunchmeats
Shelton’s Meats & Lunchmeats (tasty, no sugars or nitrites)

[U]If you're thirsty drink:[/U]
Water, water, water
Fresh Blended whole fruit juice (so you have the fiber)
Decaffienated Tea
Decaffienated Coffee
Use Xylitol and/or Stevia to sweeten

[U]If you are used to eating pastas or Ramen[/U]
Go for GF Rice, Buckwheat, Quinoa, and/or Corn Pastas
Go for (rice) Thai Noodle (box, bowels, packets) - different flavors
Organic Spaghetti Sauces (w/o sugars..)

[U]Condiments & Flavorings:[/U]
Add No Sugar Added or Unsweetened Flavorings when bored w/ just water
Westbrea Naturals Unsweetened Ketchup (ONLY no sugar added ketchup)
San-J 100% Soy Tamari Soy Sauce (most soy sauces have wheat)
Seasoning Blends or Marinades (check ingredients)
Olive Oil
Grapeseed Oil
Smart Balance
Palm Oil or Coconut oil (for cooking)

Organic Milk or Goats milk
Rice, Almond, or other Nut Miks (watch the sugar)
Soy Milk Maker - make your own grain, nut & seed milks
Natural Applesauce instead of Oil
GF Flours – Nuts, Seeds, Coconut, Bean/legume, GF Grain Flours

[U]Snack or Healthy Junk:[/U]
Organic Dark Chocolate (check type of sugar)
Unsweetened Flavored Applesauce
Fresh or Frozen Fruit
Dried Fruit, Bars, & Leathers
Fresh & Dried Vegetables
Nuts –
Seeds – Brazil nuts, sunflower, sesame, pumpkin
Veggie Crisps
Corn Chips
Organic Potato Chips
Frito Lays[I] Natural[/I] Potato Chip Brand
Rice or Corn Cakes
Newman’s Own Organic Popcorn (no trans fats)
Homemade Popcorn either in microwave container or stove & add oils & flavorings after

[U]Grocer Shopping:[/U]
Natural/Holisitc/Organic/ Healthfood Stores

Farmers Markets (may be seasonal)

Buyer’s Club – kinda like the Co-op, more costly, & high purchase minimums

Co-Ops – these are places or drop sites that offer fresh fruits, vegetables, grains, legumes, and sometimes even packaged foods that are priced at a lot less than your regular or natural grocery store. You pay be to be a member and then sign up for a delivery of food every 2 weeks or every month based on the season’s selection. Where I live there’s a co-op about 1 hour away, but I’ll be commuting to school over there so it’ll be worth it. Usually though you should be able to find one nearby (that will deliver), especially if you live in a highly populated or agricultural area. The Members own the Co-op and there’s variety of ways to earn additional savings (% discount, volunteering, etc). It’s a really cool concept that tries to bring back sustainable agriculture in your community. Do a search.

Oh and as for recipes, LOL, one day I'm sure I'll start on those, but I've realized that if I want something fried, I do it with no flour and sometimes you can't tell a difference. That whenever I buy salads I could have made 4 - 6 of them with meats & fixings at home for the price of that ONE salad! So eating out is convenient, but it's usually not more affordable (unless it's poor quality food).

Now, all I do when I'm tired is grab some frozen or precut meat (hamburger patties, chicken, fish), season it (w or w/o olive oil), toss in the oven and then spread it over a bed of rice or spinach/romaigne lettuce. Other days I'll grab some vegetables like broccoli, green/string beans, okra, squash, etc and make a stir fry with chicken, shrimp, sausage, or yes....even hotdogs. If I’m really really tired I’ll grab some Hormel Chili or Beef Stew or some canned food that doesn’t have gluten or sugars and eat that.

When I eat out, I make sure to find out on the resturant/fast food website to know what's gluten free or if they even have an ingredient list. Usually all I'm able to eat at a fastfood place is Tacos or Taquitos (be careful), Fajita meats w/ corn chips insted of flour tortilla, baked chicken, flavored chicken wings, some soups/stews, rice, vegetables, SALADS (w or w/o chicken, salami, turkey, etc), and the occassional Low-Carb (lettuce wrapped) burger/chicken sandwich. If trans fats aren't a huge problem, some places like Burger King & Carls Jr. do have a coating on their fries, but it's Rice flour.

Also, when I'm out and there's something I want and the product seems suspect I'll ask them to check the ingredients for dairy and wheat/gluten. Usually they end up bringing the package so I can check myself, but there's been one occasion where the boxes didn't have ingredient labels! The one thing you must realize is [B]you can't assume that just because it's chicken, lunchmeat that it doesn't have corn syrup or wheat in it[/B]..... Ask them, [B]check online[/B], or read the package before buying it. Yet restuarants don't offer this info so you can follow their low carb and/or Gluten free meals section or, in terms of sugars, just order what you want and take extra fiber, like [B]Glucommanon Fiber Capsules[/B] and/or [B]R-ALA [/B] to try to prevent a breakout. I don't deny myself restuarant food, I just don't eat out as often as I used to.

You know you would think that getting a breakout, let alone really STUBBORN cystic ones, would be enough to stop one from eating foods they shouldn’t, but we are not all the same. The more you avoid the harder it gets and unless you are well prepared you may find yourself in a yucky situation. Eventually, you will learn how much sugar & what type you can get away with eating that won't give you cystic breakouts or any breakouts and then hopefully you'll feel more comfortable and will be less likely to give up. Also, this is why you should surround yourself with as much “safe” foods as possible so that even out on the run, you can grab something or you know where it’s somewhat safe to eat out at. So when it comes to Gluten Free substitute foods like brownies, protein bars, waffles, breads, etc, I could give you tons of brands, but it would probably be easier if you guys would share what foods it is that tempt you, as perhaps there’s a healthier version ;-)

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