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There are some down right dangerous practises recommended in this thread and I am doing this to solely protect those who know no better when prescribing themselves treatments. Just because you can purchase something over the counter does not make it safe.

[i]This is my first post at healthboards, however i have been posting around the web for years, and have fully researched most of the current ideas about acne-genesis. I am training to (possibly) end up as a dermatologist and specialise in acne. I have also suffered from relatively sever acne for 9 years.[/i]

Re- google - search :)

[i]
Firstly we are all in the same boat, we have all read about so many different regimes, drugs, supplements and alternative therapies. Secondly sweetjade is very intelligent and i recommend you check out many of her posts, if you want to skip doing the research for yourself. [/i]

She is without doubt a kind person however she advises avoiding practically all food groups and adopting a completely unnatural diet containing no - for one - saturated fat amongst other essential and natural healthy foods on equivocal or plain flawed evidence.*

*I am not up to date on the current dietary beliefs :jester:

[i]

What i mean is that the symptoms generate a certain level psychological distress that leads to the patient striving to find a cure. This primarily occurs during adolesance when the psyche is developing and is very vunerable, many patients end up with a degree of BDD (body-dysmorphic disorder). This is caused by a years of percieving themselves in a bad light, and at the end of the day our perceptions of reality IS our reality.
[/i]

ok, yes, true

[i]

It is also true that once we believe something about our reality, (and ourselves) that thing will manifest, which provides evidence for our beliefs and so our beliefs get stronger. Thus it is a feed forward loop.

So as we all know acute stress leads to flare-ups, and chronic distess leads to adrenal exhaustion, immune disfunction, and hormonal imbalance. [b]My point is that; it IS very important to treat the cause of acne, that is to embark on a long term strategy to clean up your body,[/b] but it is equally important to take care of the symptoms of acne. Because if we have less (or no) symptoms, then we aren't so stressed, and overtime our perception of ourselves changes and we subconsciously start to think of our selves as 'aperson who doesn't have (or who has very little) acne' this is our perception and thus it becomes our reality. [/i]

All take note, it is vital to [b] Clean up your body [/b]

next...

[i]
(NB, this process is the cause of many chronic diseases of the western world, such as the unwanted activation of a anzyme called ACE, that gave a advantage to our ancestors, but in this modern western world, it causes heart failure...which is why heart failure is treated with ACE inhibitors).
[/i]

What kind of logic is that? how can something advantageous to us in the past cause heart failure today? bubijsgdsg?

[i]

Also what is causation anyway? many people say bacteria causes acne, NO IT DOESNT, hormone imbalance causes acne, NO IT DOESNT, diet causes acne, NO IT DOESNT our genetic make-up causes acne.....Do you see what i mean.
[/i]

yeah, far out man!

[i]
I mean we CAN do our best to eat a healthy diet, that suits us (don't eat foods that break us out) avoid stress etc BUT we should NOT forget about the symptoms. Orthodox medicine has developed within the western world it is designed to meet its needs, we shouldn't dismiss it.
[/i]

its the other way around, you have to eat enough foods that keeps skin healthy such as animal fat rich in natural fat soluble vitamins A, E, etc not detrimental artificial vitamins like ascorbic acid or pantethenic acid, or vegetable based 'bio-unavailable' vitamins like beta carotene. Lard, beef tallow, fatty lamb - all the tasty stuff, butter - if you tolerate dairy.

[i]
Finally my suggestions for maintaining clear skin (which i think is the best we can do unless we undertake a lifesyle that is very difficult if we want to live in the western world. So until we evolve to or we get better at genetic engineering, we must look at want has been proven in scientific studies to work and we must take them all (or many of them).
[/i]


I assume you mean "lose"
Yes, the human body has far too many redundant features, I mean what use are toes? and why have ears, surely its better to just have holes in the sides of our heads?

[i]
1.THERAPIES THAT BEEN PROVEN (and what i take.. i am now maintained virtually clear and easily controlled).
[/i]

Proven to do what? because it isnít help acne -

[i]
Vitamin B5.... (more than 5g per day, i take 6g per day, divided)
[/i]
the B5 study is one by a whacky chinese guy Lit-Hung Leung in a journal unrecognised medically. B5 is pantothenic acid, the rda is about 5mg. The mechanism for action is to cure a deficiency of coemzyme q110, So why not just take coemzyme q10- reason, the theory is made up, its easy to convince people with no knowledge of the subject anything you like, and even easier to convince people who 'think' they have knowledge of the subject. Yes is may work but it is not because of the theoretical mechanism, and more importantly B5 is an acid, if you take such huge amounts of it say goodbye to your bones because the calcium is what the body will be using to try and lower the ph or your digestive system.

[i]
Zinc ............(80mg per day...plus copper 2mg per day)
[/i]

Say hello to prostate cancer amongst others things

[i]
Guggul..........(25mg guggulsterones 2 or 3 times per day)
Red and Blue Lamp (dermulux) .....(15min once or twice per day)
minocycline.....(100mg per day....THIS DOES WORK IF TAKEN
AT THE SAME TIME EVERY DAY, ON AN EMPTY STOMACH NOT WITH ANY OTHER SUPPLEMENTS. ALSO WHILE TAKING IT, PRO-BIOTICS (8BILLION PER DAY) SHOULD BE TAKEN AND GRAPEFRUIT SEED EXTRACT SHOULD BE USED (INTERNALLY; 20 DROPS IN WATER 3 TIMES PER DAY, AND EXTERNALLY; MIX 5 DROPS INTO WASH TWICE PER DAY). AND VITAMIN C (2-3G PER DAY). The probiotics replenish gut bacteria, the grapefruit seed extract kills any yeast (and p-acnes) and the vitamin c prevents minocline induced tissue stains.

TRETINOIN......(once (or twice occasionally) per evening, use sunscreen )
Benzoyl peroxide.....(once per day, not with tretinoin, use enough...see
*********..'dans regime')
[/i]

Now lets recall the quote, it is vital to [b] Clean up your body [/b]

Clean up your bodly be taking huge quantities of what are nothing more than isolated artificial chemicals. Hello irony, Goodbye health.

[i]
EVERYTHING i have just above has scientific studies to prove they work (check pub-med), ....
[/i]

Again this is dubious.

[i]
2.OTHER THERAPIES BASED ON SCIENTIFIC STUDIES:

A study on the drug, Zileuton (A LOX-5 inhibitor) showed that it is effective against the inflammatory component of acne, but you can not buy this drug yet, so there are many natural LOX-5 inhibitors, such as Tumeric and Boswellic acid. These must be taken for about a month and at relatively high dosage (Tumeric about 5 times the dose on the back).
[/i]

c.b.a



[i]
Obviously you should also be taking evening primrose, flaxseed oil AND borage oil, not either or.
[/i]

Oh yes OBVIOUSLY! (?)
[i]

B-complex, Niacin, vitamin B-6 and saw palmetto all help balance hormones.

[/i]

Some more useless isolated artificially chemicals used librally shouldn't hurt (or help) saw palmetto esspecially for guys who want to be a bit more femanine (flax oil too)

cba to comment much more...

[i]The last acne solution...leo ceisen (i think thats his name)
Other rediculously strict dietary regimes....(if you want to do this thats fine, i have tried them all and none of them got rid of the symptoms they just made me depressed) [/i]

I wonder what regimes you tried, I bet they were acne specific nonsense ones.

[i]
Liver lipotrophic formulaes....Very useful to keep the liver performing well (should include high dose milk thistle, inositol and dandelion)
[/i]

If you want a good liver eat enough meat and fat.

[i]
In conclusion i think that doing all the proven therapies will keep your acne under control,
[/i]
if not kill you first

[i]
Any treatments that are undertaken should be done so with,the background of a healthy diet, i.e stick to a predominantly ayevedic (pitta constitution diet...research this if you dont know what im talking about, or ask me and ill fill you in), this ISNOT an extreame diet, (you're allowed ice cream)
[/i]

Now this does explain a lot, I quote

"The word Ayurveda comes from two Sanskrit words - Ayur meaning life, and Veda meaning knowledge. This traditional Indian life science is the oldest form of medicine known to man; its guiding principles are said to have been handed down from the Hindu gods, and written texts date back 3500 years. "

I leave with that, from what I can see its an all vegetarian diet with a load of herbs thrown in. Not something any human should eat.


Do yourself a favour, drop the vegetarian nonesense, buy nourishing traditions or Neanderthin or Life Without Bread by Christian Allan and Wolfgang Lutz, or even Dr. Atkin's New Diet Revolution (and skip the first 2 weeks) drop the meds and vitamins that are not working and fix your acne and establish optimum health with proper nutrition, AT LEAST TRY. Listen to information FROM A REAL SCIENTIST, not me and not this budding-megavitamin-ologist.
Hi....Firstly thankyou those of you who have replyed, and thank you t-zone for showing so much interest in my post, i am flattered.

I think i may have not explained my main premise as well as i could have. I agree with t-zone that it is a very good idea to try and treat your acne with a healthy balanced diet, that is exactly what i was trying to say.

tzone:
[I][I]"The word Ayurveda comes from two Sanskrit words - Ayur meaning life, and Veda meaning knowledge. This traditional Indian life science is the oldest form of medicine known to man; its guiding principles are said to have been handed down from the Hindu gods, and written texts date back 3500 years. "

I leave with that, from what I can see its an all vegetarian diet with a load of herbs thrown in. Not something any human should eat.[/I]

BTW an ayurvedic diet is NOT a vegetarian diet, it does contain alot of vegetables, but also meat, the type of meat and vegetables depends on your constitution. As a brief summary, ayurvedic medicine suggests that different people have different constutions, and so have different metabolisms and so deal with foods and medicines in different ways. Which is why some (lucky) people can eat all the bad food they want and have no acne, or get fat, why some people can smoke until they are 100 and not get lung cancer.

The constution is determined primarily by your genetic make up. There are three different constutions and the one that people who have inflammatory conditions (such as acne) have is called 'pitta'. Ayevedic medicine suggests that inflammatory diseases such as acne can be exacerbated by foods that potentiate the inflammatory processes in the body (which is logical) , and so should be avoided. Thus spicy and salty foods and foods that contain iodine should be avoided, for example.

Foods that 'pacify' the constitution (i.e. lessen the inflammation) should be included. These pacifying foods, include alot of fruit and vegetables, but also meats like chicken, turkey and fresh water fish. Also you need not consume any herbs if you dont want to, for me the diet is simply to aid overall health and to build a foundation upon which to build a successful treatment program.

T-zone i dont wish to be disrespectful but We should respect ancient wisdom that has been used successfully for thousands of years and not rubbish it, especially if your only knowledge of such a complex subject is a quote you have obtained from a dictionary.

To re-iterate my main point. As any sufferer of very severe acne will tell you, dietary measures may work but will take a long time. During that time we get stressed, annoyed and our self-image gets increasingly worse. we get more anxious, depressed and self-obsessed and may develop (the relatively common) body dysmorphic disorder (BDD). This disorder is similar to anorexia nervosa and (as many psychological studies have demonstrated) can actually worsen the physical symptoms of disease, which then provide evidence for our negative perception of ourselves which worsens the depression, anxiety and BDD, and so on.

So it is important to get the SYMPTOMS under control (quickly) as well. My point was that to do this it is best to use SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN therapies. This may be can be sure that they will work. Because even if one proven therapy doesnt work for us, if we use more that one the chances are that one of them will.

tzone:
[I]What kind of logic is that? how can something advantageous to us in the past cause heart failure today? bubijsgdsg?[/I]

I am sorry that you dont understand, and i mean that sincerely, perhaps i wasn't clear enough, because it IS an important point. Perhaps You should do some research into evolutionary psychology that may help. But briefly i will explain more clearly:

I can see why you dont get it. evolution is supposed to retain what is useful and weed out what is not. However the process takes millions of years, and the human race as a whole as changed enormously over the last few hundred years. Evolution simply has not had time to adapt to the environment that we find ourselves in today. A simple example is our craving for fat, due to its high calorific value it was the most valuable food for our ancestors, thus the smell, sight and taste activate powerful dopamine reward pathways in our brains. This was designed to make or ancestors eat as much fat as possible when food was scarce and our survival depended on it.

Today fat is everywhere, but the systems that make us crave fat are still active in our body, evolution has not had the time to adapt to the modern day fat-abundant environment. Hence obesity, diabetes, metabolic syndrome x etc.

The ACE system reacts when our blood pressure increases (due to our modern diet, salt etc) because blood supply to the kidney is decreased this system then acts to normalise blood flow to the starved kidneys (beneficial to our ancestors) but today long-term activation causes a series of events (check a textbook) that results in heart failure.I hope i have made my point a bit clearer tzone.


tzone:
[I]its the other way around, you have to eat enough foods that keeps skin healthy such as animal fat rich in natural fat soluble vitamins A, E, etc not detrimental artificial vitamins like ascorbic acid or pantethenic acid, or vegetable based 'bio-unavailable' vitamins like beta carotene. Lard, beef tallow, fatty lamb - all the tasty stuff, butter - if you tolerate dairy[/I]

If you can eat a diet that consists of lard, beef tallow, fatty lamb and butter and NOT break out then i am EXTREMELY pleased for you, you are very lucky i would love to eat all that regularly but unfortunately if i did i wouldn't have a face, i would just have a spot.


tzone:
[I]the B5 study is one by a whacky chinese guy Lit-Hung Leung in a journal unrecognised medically. B5 is pantothenic acid, the rda is about 5mg. The mechanism for action is to cure a deficiency of coemzyme q110, So why not just take coemzyme q10- reason, the theory is made up, its easy to convince people with no knowledge of the subject anything you like, and even easier to convince people who 'think' they have knowledge of the subject. Yes is may work but it is not because of the theoretical mechanism, and more importantly B5 is an acid, if you take such huge amounts of it say goodbye to your bones because the calcium is what the body will be using to try and lower the ph or your digestive system.[/I]

I can not actually believe the inaccuracy of this paragraph. Even if you don't believe the study, this paragraph proves that you know nothing about biochemistry. Tzone you need to get a biochemistry book and study the basics before you give out any more opinions about studies such as this.

Firstly there is no such thing as 'coemzyme q110' i assume you mean 'co-enzyme Q10' WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THEORY! co-enzyme Q10 (or ubiqinone) is a co-enzyme is an energy (ATP) producing system called oxidative phosphorylation (the electron transport chain) (i am sorry if i get too technical here but i can not leave things as they are, or else people who have read tzones comments may take them seriously).

The substance that Dr leong was talking about is called ACETYL CO-ENZYME A... and is the substrate for both hormone metabolism and for fat metabolism. There is a relative defiency when more hormone is being metabolised or when more fat is being metabolised, this defiency can result in acne.

tzone:
[I]and more importantly B5 is an acid, if you take such huge amounts of it say goodbye to your bones because the calcium is what the body will be using to try and lower the ph or your digestive system[/I]

This is completely untrue. ( do you make this stuff up tzone because if you do that is irresponsible) Pantothenic acid is actually supplemented as CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE which means that it is a SALT of pantothenic acid, so it has a NEUTRAL pH. So calcium is supplied with the B5 anyway! Also vitamin B5 is used as a treatment for dyspepsia (heartburn) because of its ability to neutralise the hydrocloric acid in our stomach. 'say goodbye to your bones' lol. Even if any of this were somehow true, The body compensates for metabolic acidosis by stimulating hyperventilation, then much later by retaining bicarbonate in the kidneys THEN ALOT LATER by removing calcium from bones, but most people would notice a prolonged period of hyperventilation.

tzone:
[I]The mechanism for action is to cure a deficiency of coemzyme q110, So why not just take coemzyme q10- reason[/I]

the reason that you cant simply take ACETYL CO-ENZYME A, is that it is produced USING pantothenic acid (B5) FROM FAT that is being oxidised (BURNT) and when there isn't enough B5 around the fat cant be burnt so easily so it is either stored or removed (obesity or acne). when there is enough B5 around the fat is more likely to be be oxidised to produce energy. There is then more acetly coA available for hormone metabolism, and fat metabolism so a defiency doesn't result.

So although supplementing with acetyl coA may help it wouldnt be AS effective. Also the body can control more effectively how much acetyl coA it produces depending on its need, which it could not do if you simply supplement with acetyl coA. (As you would know if you read some biochemistry, in some people who have too much acetyl coA produce excess cholesterol in order to get rid of the excess which you may not think is a bad thing judging by your dietary recommendations above).

....continued in next post.............





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