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Well, when I don't take enough zinc I do break out.

There are only three main types in ortho: high histamine, low histamine and pyroluria. I have pyroluria which is a zinc and vitamin b6 deficiency. (I literally piss away zinc and b6 in my urine because my body produces this substance that binds up both nutrients.) So, I can have a problem with breaking out sometimes, when my zinc levels go too low, the main cause of that is usually stress.

What does using ortho involve for me? I also have low histamine levels beside pyroluria. As a result I take 5 grams of nicotinic acid, in 1000 mg. dose 5 times a day. (That keeps my histamine levels up throughtout the day.) I take about 90 mg. of zinc three times a day. I take a total of 3 grams of vitamin b6 each day. I also must take magnesium with all that b6 to avoid the tingling sensation. I also take a number of other b vitamins like folic acid, thiamin, b12, and some essential fatty acids.

Ortho is not something I can recommend someone try on their own because of the high doses. I started with lower doses than what I take now because your body has to get used to those higher amounts. You really have to know what you are doing with this really high doses. So, it is a process of ramping up the doses, in the loading phase, and then adjusting them lower after the loading phase. It requires that you know what you are doing.

But I highly recommend a product called Zinc Status. This sells for about $15 in a health food store and tells you right away if you are deficient in zinc. This is what I used to discover my zinc deficiency, and then led me to discover my multiple deficiencies. The Zinc Status works because zinc plays a role in taste and smell sensation. The product has a metallic taste that you won't experience if you are zinc deficient.
In orthomolecular the histadelic is considered deficient in several nutrients because of their fast metabolism burning through nutrients quickly. The histadelics deficiencies are simply a result of their unusually fast metabolism.

Another thing to consider with high histamine levels is methylation. This is a hot area in biochemistry right now. Histadelics are also consider under-methylators. Some new supplements that are known for increasing methylation are SAM-e and betaine or TMG, to name just two. It seems that people who are under-methylators are deficient in sulfur. There is really no supplement, or pure form of sulfur, but one post in this thread mentioned methionine. Methionine is a sulfur containing amino acid that is used for histadelics in ortho but it must be cycled. Taking methionine EVERY day is not recommended and may cause problems. (It should be taken with the other needed nutrients as well.) I beleive the same is true for SAM-e since that contains methionine too. Usually people who benefit from SAM-e are likely to be histadelics. This supplement will help methylation and therefore help prevent histamine from getting high.

So, if you think you are a high histamine type you might want to do some more research on methylation, since that is how the body gets rid of histamine, through methylation. And the right supplements will increase your body's methylation rates. This, I think, would be a better solution than using some type of anti-histamines, since you are treating the cause of the problem instead of the end result. (You can lower your histamine levels AFTER they get too high or you can prevent them from getting too high in the first place.)

Methylation is a hot topic for biochemists right now because if your methylation does not work properly then it directly impacts on your DNA methylation. Your DNA methylation is how your gene expression is turned off and on. So this DNA methlation is critical to your health. For further reseach on methylation I suggest reading Craig Cooney's book Methyl Magic or Kilmer McCulley's book The Homocysteine Revolution. Your methylation going awry is what actually causes high homocysteine levels. Knowing your homocysteine levels is probably the best medical test available today for knowing your overall health and your risk of serious heart disease. So histamine is only one thing imfluenced by methylation. But, methylation is an important area to understand because it is possible to learn how nutrition can help keep your methylation working proper and therefore your DNA methylation working properly to reduce your risk of most serious diseases.

But as far as acne is concerned there have been studies showing the link between a zinc deficiency (or high copper levels) and acne. Sometimes people can have a problem with foods that contain copper, causing them to break out. Foods that contain copper are chocolate, alcohol, and vegetarian protein sources like soy, beans, nuts and seeds. I think some people can experience an acne problem from eating a vegetarian diet because the high copper levels can prevent the zinc from being absorbed. Copper and zinc will fight for absorption in the GI tract.
Erica...the study you are refering to speculates that the effect of cimetidine is due to its possible antiandrogen effects, but more recent research (see my research reply on page 8 of this thread, and sweetjades research on page 7..)...suggests that the effect of H2 antagonists is due to their ability to [B]modulate the immune system[/B].

Even in the study that you found, it mentions that hormone levels aren't actually altered, so perhaps they are so surprised by the effect of the cimetidine on the skin that they say that it must have some sort of androgen altering propertiy...? Because hormone imbalance is the ONLY acceptable current acne-genesis theory?..(this is common in the history of science..experimentors fitting in erronous experimental results with existing paradigms)

Either way, the science is building up, thanks to yourself, sweetjade, freerider and redshoes, the theory now has a tremendous amount of evidence, i am going to re-read all of the important posts in this thread, and summarize them and then re-post it because there is now so much infomation scattered around this thread, it needs to be brought together... i truely believe this could be a paradigm shift in the understanding of acne pathogenesis.

The reason i think this is because, before a new theory takes hold, the people with the illness notice that they have many things in common, (i.e the signs of histadelia..that have been posted early in this thread and that redshoes has added to) and scientists begin to notice seemingly unrelated associations with acne, [B]such as zinc deficiency, refined carbohydrates, candiasis, stress and toxin overload, and of course HISTADELIA[/B].....the problem is that all current theories (the paradigm) about acne-genesis [B]dont explain why all of these things separately can cause acne....[/B]

But this new theory Shows the missing link, [B]ALL OF THESE THINGS CAUSE AN IMBALANCE IN the immune system[/B].....urika.....

We need to do more research however...

1).The relationship of this theory to hormonal is a hormonal imbalance a cause, or an effect of the immune imbalance...?

2). How the above factors can cause the immune imbalance

3).How immune imbalance affects other known areas of acne-genesis, such as PPARs, Insulin resistance..what is the relationship?

4). the cause of histadelia...we know that histadelia is a main contibutor to Th2:th1 imbalance, but what else can be done?

5). Other possible therapies ?

Also in responce to the post by 'freerider' who said:

[I][B]Perilla Seed [/B] Extract has been used for immune system balancing. Maybe it will have a positive effect on acne. Here's a list I found of what perilla seed extract supposedly does:
[B]Suppress T helper Th2[/B]-type cytokine production, particularly interleukins 4, 5, 6, and 10 reducing inflammation
[B]Encourage Th1-type cytokines reducing the allergic response [/B]
Suppress IgE production reducing the immediate allergic response
[B]Inhibit the overproduction of TNF-alpha [/B] reducing inflammation and allergies
[B]Inhibit histamine release [/B] from mast cells responsible for allergic symptoms a natural anti-histamine effect.
Inhibit the breakdown of arachidonic acid into inflammatory leukotrienes[/I]

I have since ordered perilla seed, and will try it out, see it is any good, (though when i ordered it i actually had some acne, so now it will be hard to tell if its working, not that im complaining!)

BUT another interesting piece of research is that if perilla seed rebalances Th2:Th1, then this decreases inflammatory leuckotriene production, [B]this could provide the link with PPARs....[/B]

Obviously i dont wish to bore you to death... but a while ago a study was published showing that a drug called [B]ZILEUTON[/B], (which is a LOX-5 antagonist).........

[I][B]Zileuton, an oral 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor, directly reduces sebum production.[/B]

Zouboulis ChC, Saborowski A, Boschnakow A.

Department of Dermatology, Charite University Medicine Berlin, Campus Benjamin Franklin, Berlin, Germany. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Zileuton, a 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor, reduces the number of inflammatory lesions in moderate acne and inhibits the synthesis of sebaceous lipids. OBJECTIVE: To detect whether zileuton directly reduces sebum synthesis. METHODS: A 40-year-old female with mild disseminated sebaceous gland hyperplasia and seborrhea was treated with zileuton 4 x 600 mg/day over 2 weeks, was followed-up for 6 weeks after discontinuation of zileuton and was re-treated with low-dose isotretinoin 10 mg/2nd day over 5 weeks. Casual skin surface lipids and sebum synthesis were determined. RESULTS: [B]Under treatment with zileuton increased casual skin surface lipids were normalized and synthesis of facial sebum was decreased[/B]. Six weeks after discontinuation of treatment casual skin surface lipids were increased again and synthesis of sebum returned to baseline. [B]Subsequent low-dose isotretinoin treatment led to similar changes of casual skin surface lipids and sebum synthesis with zileuton already after 2 weeks[/B]. CONCLUSION: [B]Zileuton directly inhibits sebum synthesis in a transient manner with a potency similar to low-dose isotretinoin [/B] at least in our patient.[/I]

This study is afollow up to a previous study showing the same thing...i have researched this and found that...the normal [B]products of LOX-5 act on PPARs [/B] in the skin (sebocytes and keratinocytes) to increase the production of sebum and keratin...thus causing acne...The research by freerider suggests that [B]Th2:Th1 imbalance causes increased production of the LOX-5 metabolites (ie increased activity of LOX-5).. [/B] so instead of giving Zileuton to inhibit LOX-5, which works...we can simply try to re-address the immune imbalance (an imbalance that is favored by modern western living) with H2 antagonists and perilla seed (maybe?) The task now is what else can re-set the balance?

One last point that redshoes brought up is that histadelics, are [B]low-methylators[/B]. This is a fascinating development, because methylation is such a vital process in the body, and may infact be the cause of the high levels of histamine (because histamine is de-activated by methylation)....What are the other efects of low-methylation? This is an urgent question that needs addressing?

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