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this is my final post. i've read thru so many posts and am quite saddened to read that so many of you are convinced diet has nothing or little to do with acne.

listen to logic. carbohydrates are sugars. all sugars have the same effect on the body, causing the pancreas to pump out insulin in order to keep blood-sugar levels stable. insulin is a hormone, and raging hormones do cause acne (there is a grain of truth to what the conventional doctors have been telling us). therefore, to control hormones, limit consumption of all carbs, including fruits and root vegetables. whole grains can be especially harmful, contrary to popular opinion.

what to eat? we need fat-soluble vitamins in great abundance, fellow acne patients. vitamins A & D are found in animal products and the suns rays. consume unprocessed animal products in abundance, get A LITTLE sun, severely limit carb intake (to no more than 15% of daily caloric intake), and swear off idleness.

acne patients are extremely sensitive to carbohydrates. acne patients ought to stress meats and animal products.

[This message has been edited by Convalescing Acne Victim (edited 08-02-2003).]
Denvergirl,
I and many others experienced other health and/or hormonal improvements by adjusting our diets. For that alone I would, and some others, would quite happily stay on these diets. However, you bring up a good point about Diabetics, but that is not the same thing as us.

Diabetics have very little to no insulin, whereas we produce TOO MUCH or are unable to acknowledge that we produce enough. Therefore our bodies ignore the insulin and allows it to float freely about in our system causing an increase in ovarian and testes androgen production. Along with this one should find that we have a low Sex Hormone Binding Globulin which is actually WHY we have too much male hormones floating around. We are lacking this hormone that would collect any excess.

Furthermore, we don't all experience the same SYMPTOMS and that is also why Diabetics (type 2) and kids going through Puberty (State of Insulin Resistance) don't ALL get acne, hirsutism, etc. Symptoms can be external or internal and they vary WIDELY depending on what ENZYME/GENE is defective (usually somewhere on a CYP450 gene [url="http://drnelson.utmem.edu/P450lect.html"]http://drnelson.utmem.edu/P450lect.html[/url] ) and may catch up to you in late adulthood. I guess that's what makes people feel safe and comfortable to do whatever they please DESPITE the scientific evidence behind it all.

I've written so many posts about this and others have backed up these claims with testimonies of their own. You can do plenty of research to find books, articles and more testimonies that will tell you the same thing. Majority of the topicals, medications, supplements, and dietary changes (allergic or not) are all attempting to either fix your homonal imbalance by Controlling your Insulin, by preventing the Conversion of DHT in sebaceous follicles, by preventing the over proliferation of skin cells, or by reducing your free testosterone/androgen in the blood stream. ALL of which could be caused by a lack of Insulin sensitivity or Insulin Resistance. Once again hormonal imbalances are due to some sort of lack of an enzyme, which explain why some people cleared when taking Probiotics, Digestive Enzymes or doing Liver Cleanses.

So you see, I am not ALWAYS entirely for dietary changes only. Not everyone has to do that. One must know their body and understand just what hormones & enzymes are involved in causing their problems. Once they do that (endocrinologist, allergist, etc), it easier to find treament (natural or traditional) that will be more effective than anything they've done before. Unless of coure they simply GROW OUT OF IT as I'm more often wondering is the case with Accutane.

However since you are curious as to HOW Insulin Rasies our androgen levels you can read my Accutane, Insulin & Puberty post [url="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/016428.html"]http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/016428.html[/url] . I found some articles where Insulin Resistance is connected to reduced/lower SHBG (sex hormone binding globulins) and that would allow for the Ovaries and Testicles to continue producing these hormones. So we can add that as another piece of that puzzle as to how insulin works to increase these hormones. [url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12466392&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=12466392&dopt=Abstract[/url]

"Low Sex-Hormone-Binding Globulin (SHBG) levels--indicating a state of hyperandrogenicity--are associated with a higher risk for the development of non-insulin dependent diabetes (NIDDM) in women and are accepted as a marker of muscular insulin resistance." [url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11573147&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=11573147&dopt=Abstract[/url]

I was also curious about how IGF-1 works against us, so I found that:
"Our results provide evidence that IGF-I, KGF, and EGF directly activate the AR in the absence of androgens, which means that the androgen-signaling chain may be activated by growth factors in an androgen-depleted environment." [url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?holding=npg&cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7522959&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?holding=npg&cmd= Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7522959&dopt=Abstract[/url]

Insulin-like Growth factor-1 directly stimulates the androgen receptors increasing one's androgen levels and it also decreases SHBG. So that explains the IGF-1 question and another reason why Organic Milk (lower levels than "regular" store milk) has helped certain acne sufferers, while others had to completely eliminate milk.

Female cows are given GROWTH HORMONES (there's no where near enough basic hormones to cause acne like progesterone or estrogen), that causes an overproduction of IGF-1. So when a doctor says milk has hormones that can cause acne he is referring to IGF-1 and the hormone that INCREASES this beyond what a human would produce is BGH (bovine growth hormone). Furthermore, if you had to give it up entirely it may also be due to the Lactose, casien protein or lectins. Lectins are sugar coated proteins that can cause of variety of inflammatory or other reactions in the human body. It so happens that milk that is pasturized or processed has a reduction in SIgA (secretory immunoglobin A) which binds toxic lectins and protects against other antigens in the environment. Therefore this leaves SUSCEPTIBLE individuals with more harmful lectins in there system and a decreased form of protection against allergens. [url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7608381&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ uids=7608381&dopt=Abstract[/url] So if you are interested in dietary changes, that MAY be a good place to start. It works for some, but not for all...

Also, on my Accutane post, I goofed for accutane actually temporarily (during treatment) INCREASES Insulin Resistance, yet it still works to prevent DHT conversion. It does this by inhibiting the enzymes neccessary in converting DHT in the sebecacous follicles and preventing proliferation of skin cells. Furthermore, it does so by increasing IGFBP-3 (Insulin-like Growth Factor Binding Protein) which inhibits IGF-1 from binding to androgen receptors and prevents overgrowth of cells (Western Civilization article). Hyperinsulinemia, Insulin Resistance, and High carbohydrates reduce IGFBP-3 which explains how 13-cis-retinoic acid really works. It seems that while it temporarily causes Insulin Resistance, it also decreases the effects of Insulin Resistance (IR). It may indeed be STRONGER than the other factors that promote IR [url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7518821&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ uids=7518821&dopt=Abstract[/url]
[url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11404231&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=11404231&dopt=Abstract[/url] [url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11880314&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=11880314&dopt=Abstract[/url] [url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12574218&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=12574218&dopt=Abstract[/url] [url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9064277&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ uids=9064277&dopt=Abstract[/url]
(these articles don't specifically talk about acne but they do prove that different types of Vitamin A will increase different IGF Binding Proteins...again must learn to connect the dots)

So Accutane still works along the Insulin Controlling pathway. Meanwhile, Roche claims they don't know how it works, but to me it seems that Accutane is like a REALLY deep topical treatment that works from underneath the surface of the skin and doesn't really change the rest of your hormones. Hmmm, this may explain why some people have gone through 4 treatments and still have acne. Their problems are seemingly permanently hormonal and accutane isn't going to change it.

Now that we see how foods can contribute, not all of us have to eliminate the SAME foods because we do infact vary in our gene defects. Therefore some must eliminate 1 food item, High Glycemic Load (not the GI, the Load) Carbs or ALL grains. Infact, check out this article discussing Low Protein-High Carb vs. High Protein-Low Carb diet effects [url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12574218&dopt=Abstract"]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=12574218&dopt=Abstract[/url]

Once again, since there is so much variety here, people feel safe to completely ignore the truth. There won't be a study that says....THIS FOOD RIGHT HERE CAUSES ACNE, because we get acne for different reasons. Some of the enzymes have been pinpointed, but cannot be corrected. Therefore, we either take some sort of medication that helps us digest better, helps us block DHT, helps us increase insulin sensitivity, or that finds some other way to balance hormones. Of course if that fails, like it somewhat did for myself and others, you can see how far the RIGHT diet for YOU will help.

Oh wow...I just discovered something new here myself, and while I'm sure you could pull the pieces together in this post, I'm gonna hammer this out and post the connections for you. ;-)

I'll be back


[This message has been edited by SweetJade1 (edited 08-03-2003).]
[quote]Originally posted by Convalescing Acne Victim:
[b]this is my final post. i've read thru so many posts and am quite saddened to read that so many of you are convinced diet has nothing or little to do with acne.

listen to logic. carbohydrates are sugars. all sugars have the same effect on the body, causing the pancreas to pump out insulin in order to keep blood-sugar levels stable. insulin is a hormone, and raging hormones do cause acne (there is a grain of truth to what the conventional doctors have been telling us). therefore, to control hormones, limit consumption of all carbs, including fruits and root vegetables. whole grains can be especially harmful, contrary to popular opinion.

what to eat? we need fat-soluble vitamins in great abundance, fellow acne patients. vitamins A & D are found in animal products and the suns rays. consume unprocessed animal products in abundance, get A LITTLE sun, severely limit carb intake (to no more than 15% of daily caloric intake), and swear off idleness.

acne patients are extremely sensitive to carbohydrates. acne patients ought to stress meats and animal products.

[This message has been edited by Convalescing Acne Victim (edited 08-02-2003).][/b][/quote]


What kind of nonsense regime and self-treatment is this. Without insulin you would suffer from diabetes. Carbohydrates is in most kind of food. Your suggestion is only good for people who are using the Atkins diet.





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