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Hey there Josh --

Yes, I remember your post about the cold hands. That is weird how we seem to be experiencing the same side effects around the same times. I could deal with the cold hands, but depression? No thanks! I'm so frustrated! It's like I don't wanna stop taking the med because it has helped improve my attention span/motivation/grades went up/etc. But then again, I just don't feel like myself anymore.

I know exactly what you mean by the whole dissociative thing. I, too, have been blowing friends off for the simple reason that I no longer have the *desire* to chit-chat or hang out. It just seems like too much work. Normally I am an extremely outgoing person/always on the go/spontaneous/etc. I just don't feel like myself anymore!

Last night I was chillin' with my bf (like you said, my sig other is the only person I have hung out with lately) & I was getting irritated over really stupid things that normally wouldn't bother me at all. Also, I feel like crying sometimes for no reason. It's a terrible feeling!!! I mean, is this depression going to go away or will we hafta stop taking the Adderall for that to happen?!?! Or is the depression going to get even worse?!? I mean, usually when you start taking a drug, as your body gets used to it the side effects become *LeSS* bothersome... not worse!!!

So you take "drug holidays"? I've never went more than maybe a day w/o taking the Adderall since it was prescribed to me. I can only imagine how horrible the withdrawal symptoms are!!! Ya know, I don't think I have ever been prescribed anything that has had such negative effects along with the withdrawal you mentioned. I was taking narcotic pain relievers (Oxycontin/Vicodin/Vicoprofin) for 4 mos. straight after a car accident (broken leg) last year & even w/ those drugs I had NO negative side effects or withdrawals at all. Then we have Adderall on the other end of the spectrum, w/ so many negative effects I could write a book on them!

So are you planning on sticking w/ Adderall to see if the effects lessen at all, or will you be switching meds? I am seriously considering changing meds (maybe to Concerta or something) if this depression & moodiness doesn't subside w/in the next month or so. I am kind of weary when it comes to long-term Adderall use anyway. Afterall -- it *is* amphetamine which can lead to negative consequences down the road. Maybe I'm just paranoid but I have read quite a few reports on young children dropping dead of heart failure who had been taking the med. Afterall Adderall was on the market as a diet drug in the 70s (under the name Obetrol) & was taken off the market for safety concerns. Then 20 yrs later it's brought back as Adderall & given to kids?! Oh also, I don't know how true this is, but I also read that Adderall has been linked to 11 separate cases of psychotic episodes/mental illness as a result of regular use. I dunno, but maybe this depression we're feeling is a warning of what's to come... I sure hope not!!!

Also, lately I have been experiencing headaches? Do you get headaches at all? So far I've experienced these side effects from Adderall:

1. Loss of appetite/unintentional weight loss
2. Dizziness
3. Headaches
4. Depression/moodiness/emotional instability/"zombie"-like demeanor
5. Cold hands

But hey, according to the pamphlet from Shire (maker of Adderall), the majority of these symptoms are "normal." Anyway, let me know how you're doin' & take care!!! Just remember, you are *NoT* alone!!!!!
[QUOTE=malibubarbie999]Hey there Josh --

Yes, I remember your post about the cold hands. That is weird how we seem to be experiencing the same side effects around the same times. I could deal with the cold hands, but depression? No thanks! I'm so frustrated! It's like I don't wanna stop taking the med because it has helped improve my attention span/motivation/grades went up/etc. But then again, I just don't feel like myself anymore.

I know exactly what you mean by the whole dissociative thing. I, too, have been blowing friends off for the simple reason that I no longer have the *desire* to chit-chat or hang out. It just seems like too much work. Normally I am an extremely outgoing person/always on the go/spontaneous/etc. I just don't feel like myself anymore!

Last night I was chillin' with my bf (like you said, my sig other is the only person I have hung out with lately) & I was getting irritated over really stupid things that normally wouldn't bother me at all. Also, I feel like crying sometimes for no reason. It's a terrible feeling!!! I mean, is this depression going to go away or will we hafta stop taking the Adderall for that to happen?!?! Or is the depression going to get even worse?!? I mean, usually when you start taking a drug, as your body gets used to it the side effects become *LeSS* bothersome... not worse!!!

So you take "drug holidays"? I've never went more than maybe a day w/o taking the Adderall since it was prescribed to me. I can only imagine how horrible the withdrawal symptoms are!!! Ya know, I don't think I have ever been prescribed anything that has had such negative effects along with the withdrawal you mentioned. I was taking narcotic pain relievers (Oxycontin/Vicodin/Vicoprofin) for 4 mos. straight after a car accident (broken leg) last year & even w/ those drugs I had NO negative side effects or withdrawals at all. Then we have Adderall on the other end of the spectrum, w/ so many negative effects I could write a book on them!

So are you planning on sticking w/ Adderall to see if the effects lessen at all, or will you be switching meds? I am seriously considering changing meds (maybe to Concerta or something) if this depression & moodiness doesn't subside w/in the next month or so. I am kind of weary when it comes to long-term Adderall use anyway. Afterall -- it *is* amphetamine which can lead to negative consequences down the road. Maybe I'm just paranoid but I have read quite a few reports on young children dropping dead of heart failure who had been taking the med. Afterall Adderall was on the market as a diet drug in the 70s (under the name Obetrol) & was taken off the market for safety concerns. Then 20 yrs later it's brought back as Adderall & given to kids?! Oh also, I don't know how true this is, but I also read that Adderall has been linked to 11 separate cases of psychotic episodes/mental illness as a result of regular use. I dunno, but maybe this depression we're feeling is a warning of what's to come... I sure hope not!!!

Also, lately I have been experiencing headaches? Do you get headaches at all? So far I've experienced these side effects from Adderall:

1. Loss of appetite/unintentional weight loss
2. Dizziness
3. Headaches
4. Depression/moodiness/emotional instability/"zombie"-like demeanor
5. Cold hands

But hey, according to the pamphlet from Shire (maker of Adderall), the majority of these symptoms are "normal." Anyway, let me know how you're doin' & take care!!! Just remember, you are *NoT* alone!!!!![/QUOTE]

IMHO, it's not so much that this is a side effect but the result of brain changes caused by the amphetamines. For example, there is a study out there that suggests over many years, SSRi's will cause serotonin receptor damage, possibly because of receptors being burnt out, overused, etc. by the antidepressant actions of keeping serotonin in the brain longer than it should be. Serotonin has a natural metabolism process which re-uptake inhibitors like SSRi's block.

So, even though they haven't discovered this yet with amphetamines, perhaps the same can happen with those...overused dopamine/adrenaline receptors perhaps shut down and then the person cannot get enough.

I've also read that the brain eventually tries to fight synthetic chemical dominance by creating new, opposing receptors to the drugs, which could also cause an imbalance such as tolerance. For example, a person who took downers like Valium, which is inhibitory, could end up with too many excitatory receptors in a defensive move by the brain, and vice-versa with uppers like Adderall.

So either scenario would prove to cause some imbalance of receptors I imagine. In the case of stimulants, the end result may be the opposite of being "up" and energetic, aka depression and fatigue.

One study recently does indicate a connection to amphetamines and later development of depression, so there's a hint but I think they've only just begun to really explore long term issues of these drugs.
[QUOTE=malibubarbie999]I was looking at the drug information thing that comes with my Adderall the other day & read something kinda frightening... Uhh... schizophrenia and nasty withdrawal??? And they give this to kids?!?[/QUOTE]

What the drug insert actually says is: "Amphetamines have been extensively abused...There are reports of patients who have increased the dosage to many times that recommended. Abrupt cessation following prolonged high dosage administration ..." leads to the withdrawal syndrome you describe. Discussion of the risk of amphetamine psychosis is in the same paragraph and refers to chronic abuse ("chronic intoxication"), not long-term usage at prescribed doses. There is a world of difference between the two.
[QUOTE=index.html]What the drug insert actually says is: "Amphetamines have been extensively abused...There are reports of patients who have increased the dosage to many times that recommended. Abrupt cessation following prolonged high dosage administration ..." leads to the withdrawal syndrome you describe. Discussion of the risk of amphetamine psychosis is in the same paragraph and refers to chronic abuse ("chronic intoxication"), not long-term usage at prescribed doses. There is a world of difference between the two.[/QUOTE]

You are right; however, long term use can lead to tolerance which forces the dosage higher, and some may reach a point where they need to take more than directed to avoid a phenomenon called tolerance withdrawal, meaning when the brain has built up tolerance, the regular dose is recognized as too small and the brain thinks its in withdrawal, or lacking in what it needs. Some refer to it as "accidental addiction", the accidental addict will not usually have euphoria/drug seeking traits but will take more of the drug to feel "normal" when tolerance builds up.

Sometimes this is offset with additional drugs by doctors, usually adding other diagnosis to the original diagnosis. For example, when one develops depression from long term use of amphetamines, one would be given an antidepressant. Now, if the AD causes anxiety, then they could give a benzodiazepine or neuroleptic for that. Polypharmacy makes a terrible tasting stew but alot of people are swimming in it that maybe shouldn't have been originally.

Then again, some people can stick to the same dose for ages and not need more to work properly.

Tolerance is a strange and unusual animal, never seems to follow an exact pattern but I'm guessing the majority of people do run into it eventually, some sooner than others.

Real addiction or abuse is when someone is seeking an abnormal feeling from the drug. People who end up "abusing" just to feel normal due to tolerance are not the same, but are usually put in the same catagory. In the first catagory, the person is to blame. In the second (accidental), it's the drug that is to blame.

But just because it takes "abuse" to run into trouble (aka adverse effects) we shouldn't assume it can't happen even at higher doses docs will prescribe. Everyone's drug sensitivity is not at the same level nor is their tolerance.





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