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Syborg,

Thunor suggested that my "go back on Effexor" advice was based on Effexor + Adderall worked for you. That was about 10% of it. The other 90% is knowing Effexor withdrawals are more than difficult. They can be life threatening. I tried to find research studies that may have been conducted on Effexor's withdrawals. The one and only study was conducted by Effexors manufacturer Wyeth. Wyeth found no problems. Hmm.

I found a couple figures I think are good approximations. 78% of Effexor users experience withdrawal side-effects. The FDA claims 9% experience "serious" withdrawals. FDA defines "serious" as side effects that cause death, hospitalization, cancer, permanent disability, or birth defects. Based on the over-whelming number of Effexor withdrawal horror stories, I'll venture that a large percentage of the (78% - 9% = 69%) were reports that fell a little short of "death or permanent disability." I read a few reports (I got to start counting to be more specific) in the 4 to 5 range about the withdrawal nightmare going on for 2 to 3 years. And double the reports where withdrawals went on for months.

So, my friend that don't speak french, be careful. You are dealing with a dangerous syndrome. Every recommendation I found said the same. Your doctor should monitor you closely as he gradually reduces the dose over a period of month or two or more. The brain zapping became intolerable to some of those that went cold turkey and in desperation they went back on Effexor.

You don't need a withdrawal problem this serious while tackling the opening moves on ADHD. I can see everything getting blow to heaks on you. I should say, if I found myself in that boat, I be down faster than the titanium.

That's the real why I said what I said. Good advice or bad? It depends on how closely your universe parallels mine. My 2centAdvice.1001. See what gives for another week. It could just zap right out of you done with it. At the end of the week, do an honest appraisal on yourself. Will the zaps blow up your ADHD launch just off the pad? Then do what you need to do. I do recommend your doc should be involved in your detox if not monitoring it already. After doing the research, my "severe" assessment on Effexor withdrawals has gone up a notch. I did not appreciated the necessity for medical supervision.

Bob
Syborg,
I'm doing lots of research and my available time for this project today may run out when I'm forced. I'll post what I have and continue later.

I'll answer your question within the context I think you ask "Can ADHD be cured?" No.

I have a theory that I think wraps the many conditions associated with the disorder. Theory returns a conditional yes on "Can ADHD be cured?"

Your post #15 this thread is among the most insightful I've had the privilege to read. You address the right things. That is, the things that should move everyone to get this disorder under control. Your post #15 helped me cement concrete a force that influences all of us either to our good or our ruin. Our environment especially the one we had when hatched and young.

I'm certain, that in some cases, ADHD children can be raised successfully without medications or psychiatric doctors. I feel perturbed when parents deny medical care for their suffering ADHD children that need medical care. And feel sorry for the parents because the decision they think will help their children will end up devastating their children.

Please read Marisuela's thread at http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=831209

Marisuela is making an intelligent informed decision to help her daughter without medication.

Let's rerun a quote from MedMD and label it.

MedMD.doc "The type and severity of symptoms vary greatly among people with ADHD. The severity of symptoms depends on the degree of abnormality in the brain, the presence of related conditions, and the individual's environment and response to that environment.

"Extract IUnknown to me: The severity of symptoms depends on the degree of abnormality in the brain, the presence of related conditions.

Compare MedMD.doc. with Marisuela.personage
A. Marisuela's daughter has the best possible environment
B. Her daughter responds to her loving full-time (with overtime) mother who takes parenting seriously. The family subscribes to high values and live accordingly.

IUnknown values-to-me have been weighed carefully by Marisuela. She has determined that the risks outweigh any possible benefits. For me to judge Marisuela would be totally out of line. I'll do it anyway. At age 18, Marisuela's daughter = well adjusted happy young adult who does funny things in public and gets everyone laughing just like Mom.

If the IUnknowns in the future begin to lean more on the severe side, Marisuela will seek medical help. I'll bet my life on it.

We focus heavily on the genetics and should. Like many other diseases, we are born high risk for ADHD. Worse yet, much worse, no one asked me who I wanted for parents. No reason too. I'd choose the ones I had. Besides I really got even with the old folks right proper. They regretted having me. Taught them a thing or two.

Our environment, especially the one we were raised, exerts the most force on who we are as adults. JaneWhite, who is smarter than hecks, as I'm sure you know, had a less than spectacular first marriage. Jane said, in more or less words, her ex is as ADHD as Jane. The parents of the "ex" provided no structure or guidance or medical care above and beyond needed to stay out of jail.

Jane's parents on the other hand, took Jane (bull is unacceptable) by the horns and wrestled in good work ethics and a sense of responsibity expected from adults.

All of that being said, all that was said is why an unqualified "yes" can't be given to the "Can ADHD be cured?"

From NINDS

Attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a neurobehavioral disorder that affects 3-5 percent of all American children. Several components of the NIH support research on developmental disorders such as ADHD.

There is no "cure" for ADHD. Children with the disorder seldom outgrow it; however, some may find adaptive ways to accommodate the ADHD as they mature.

End NINDS

I got to go, but before going, about:" Accommodation" Certainly accounts for some of my improvements because I can link them directly to CBT. Tell you with even greater certainty that CBT was worthless before my neural network got its connectivity upgrade.

Later,
Bob
Paydirt:

One of the lines I've been pursuing is [B]"if ADHD is a genetic disorder, show me the buggy chromosomes."[/B]

I searched "ADHD chromosome" or similar in medical research search engines that returned over 300 web pages that I read from over 60 web sites many in the .edu, .gov, .org, and .net domains (nothing to sell). I dead ended. None of them pointed me to the buggy chromosome.

Then ... about 15 hours ago ... paydirt.

A recently published study has the dirt I wanted.

I must name names for validation. I do not quote any of my source material.

Source: The Study was conducted by scientists at Cardiff University (Wales, UK) and was published in The Lancet.

The research/study was funded by the Wellcome Trust (UK based), with additional support from Action Medical Research, the Medical Research Council and the European Union.

No pharmaceutical funding.

My Summary of Study Results (I do not quote any source articles):

The study found rare CNVs were about twice as common in children with ADHD compared to the control sample.

CNV = Copy Number Variants. Definition: The number of copies of a particular genetic sequence different than presumed normal. CNVs detected in children with ADHD are chromosome abnormalities involving the addition or subtraction of an entire chromosome or set of chromosomes.

CNV's can result in serious genetic disease. For example, three copies of chromosome 21 results in Down syndrome.

CNVs detected in children with ADHD were duplicated or deleted stretches of chomosome 16.

Note: The particular region on chromosome 16 has been previously implicated to other major psychiatric disorders and spans a number of genes including one known to play a role in the development of the brain.

The researchers at Cardiff University are the first to find direct evidence that ADHD is a genetic disorder. My source reports are dated September 30, 2010. Four months ago.

The study results were replicated using another larger ADHD group and another larger control group.

[B]"If ADHD is a genetic disorder, show me the buggy chromosomes."[/B]

The brilliant scientists at Cardiff University did just that.

Relevance: The study will help [reasonable] people see ADHD as a neurodevelopmental disorder, like autism, instead of a behavior problem.

No amount of evidence scientific or otherwise will move those that want to believe "ADHD is disorder invented by drug companies so they can sell speed legally."

Randy,

Controlling moderate to severe ADHD requires medication.

"The neuro correlate:" The internal operations of the neurons outputting dopamine and norepinephrine are being governed by an instruction set that is missing entire pages or has duplicate pages. Each neuron, actually every cell in our bodies, have a copy of the entire DNA code.

I doubt if "a fix" is possible short of some form of stem cell technology. Anyone with info on DNA "upgrades" please post.

I think many of us can develop "overrides" or skills that enable us to compensate for the deficit and that possibly may mean a functional life without medication.

ADHD is for life.

Bob
(addressed to last 2 posts, my mouse is too cranky to quote partial replies properly.)

I think you're both right. Bob, you're approaching a fundamental problem with entire health care systems: New technology makes health care more expensive. A couple generations ago, advanced cancer meant a few months of morphine and nursing care. Now we can (sometimes) fix it, for a cost high in the six figure range.

Back in the day, people with ADHD or other moderately severe mental health issues would either learn to get by on their own, or live a life of personal and financial instability, contributing far less to society, but not costing the health care system. Now we use up psychiatric, pharmaceutical and educational resources, but society gets more productive adults. It's a trade off.

But, Thunor has a good point, sometimes the costs of a particular technology do come down to the point that it can be more widely used. Genetic testing used to be a lot more expensive than it is--and once you know the exact marker you're looking for, and large numbers of people are being tested for it, the price comes down further.





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