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Thank you for the information. I consider your advice to mominbucks
to be among the best I've seen posted on this board.

I've been exhaustively researching ADHD. ADHD symptoms are caused by genetics interacting with environment.

The "wide range of feasible intervening techniques" you mention [are] far better than just using medication. Medication alone is useless more often than not. Medication does control the biological (genetic) end. In more severe cases of ADHD, intervention (environmental) alone is useless more often than not. Medication + Intervention = the child successfully overcomes ADHD and its symptoms permanently, more often than not.

ADHD's biological (neurological) dysfunctions inhibits the child's ability to learn how to control their thoughts and actions to produce coherent behavior. How do "we" control our thoughts and actions? Self-talk. We have an ongoing conversation with ourselves on the topics of: Getting ready for what lies ahead in time--our goals; our plans; our assignments; and weighing potential future outcomes of acting on immediate impulses and desires. "It be so funny to plop a wad (spitball) on 3rd grade Mrs. Goodteacher's back." I missed but got detention anyway. Did I learn? No. Dr. Halowell, co-author of "Driven to Distraction" - a must read - replies for all children (and many ADHD adults) to the question "How many times do I have to tell you?" with "A few hundred times, at least."

"Driven to Distraction" discusses the advantageous characteristics of ADHD and how to build on them.

Two of those advantageous characteristics are me-to-a-T.

[*]A zany sense of humor, an unpredictable approach to anything and everything
[*]Highly intuitive style

Those qualities make it impossible for me to learn under CONSTRAINT imposed by any teacher. When I'm studying, I'm relying on my intuitive deductive reasoning, not on rote memory or remembering the facts and figures on the subject. I do best consuming large chunks, several chapters to several volumes, as I seek just one thing - the big picture - that is, an overall grasp of the subject I knew little about. For a certainty I need the guidance of a teacher to ultimately gain mastery and the interface of other students to hone and correct my progressive understanding. I get both the teachers and other students interface right here on this board with my study on the neurology and psychology of ADHD.

Dr. Halowell teaches how to overcome the disadvantages of my advantageous ADHD characteristics.

1. Impulsively reaching conclusions prematurely. Then posting them here. Then having to retract the next day. Then feeling like dumb bozo with severe ADHD. Don't do that.

2. Checking my conclusions by reviewing the facts. The best method for me is to do a little write-up just as I'm doing now.

Oh, don't worry, be happy, I have carefully checked my facts and conclusions - this case.

My purpose for researching ADHD is too help me control my ADHD. I'm pleased with my progress. Frankly, I think very few could get to my level in such a short time. If I enrolled in a night course at Community College, I would not have gained nearly as much. IMHO educators expect students to grasp disconnected details while studying Brain-Bugs 101. Give me the framework first, then hanging the billions of details becomes more doable once I knew where they go.

Let's draw links to the advice you've given.

He was more accustomed to work on things that interest him at a pace that suited his temperament but found it hard to work under CONSTRAINT imposed by his teacher. Fidgeting, easily distracted and incompletion of his assignment on time were some of the symptoms shown.
[/QUOTE] -- Powerful

He was scheduled for a physical examination, his pediatrician recommended him to a clinical psychologist and medication was postpone.

According to his psychologist, he fit the DSM IV criteria for ADHD and program were developed for his teacher and parent to help him focus hid attention on his task effectively.

A trial of Ritalin was used in conjunction with the program develop by his psychologist. He was taught to [B]'talk to himself'[/B] as a meant to keep his attention focused so on and so forth.

I'm shocked. The psychologist managing this boy's care is one of the very select few that actually does something good for his patients.

Having Rules and regulations in the house will definitely make him learn the effective work habits rather than letting children be indecent of adult authority at a very young age. [/QUOTE] - Absolutely

I am so disgusted with the worse than worthless, dangerous "care" most of the shrinks, psyches and bozo MD's dish out on the ADHD.

Researchers have learned so much about ADHD in the past decade that could be used by doctors that would produce beneficial results just like those you reported.

It is sickening. Thank you so much for your report. I'll be danged, there are a few good doctors after-all, damn few, but few is better than none.


Verucalise, Thunor and JaneWhite, in fact everyone this thread, has contributed rock-solid advise on what ADHD children really need to overcome this potentially quality-of-life destroying disorder. ADHD is complex. The variations in the symptoms vary widely from person to person. "Degree" is another variable. ADHD is not like pregnancy - you are or you aren't. ADHD symptoms can range from mild to severe. Most of the variables affect medication choices. Mild cases, IMHO, can be managed without meds especially when the diagnosed at a young age. In my layman's opinion, your son has high moderate to severe ADHD. Most likely, again in my layman's opinion, medication will be needed. I so hope you get a shrink that understands which medications are most likely to help your son.

It angers me how few shrinks apparently cannot correlate the specific symptoms manifested to the medications most likely to help. Make sure the pdoc gets your son's medical history as well as his behavioral history based on your observations and those of his teachers. A good psychiatrist can draw from his history a good picture of the specific causes of your boy's ADHD. Psychiatry does not yet have tests that can detect the biological causes of ADHD. Nevertheless, a good doctor can see the causes through the window that our medical and behavioral history opens into the brain, that is, if said "good" doctor looks through that virtual window. Failure to "look" can result in a medication prescription that does so much harm that parents curse the day they took their child into the shrink chamber.

A question directed to all if you care to respond. How many were diagnosed with ADHD by a doctor that never looked at your medical or behavioral history?

The ADHD questionairs do provide useful information when answered by parents and teachers. Parents objectively base their answers on observations over a time span of years. Adult patient answers are based on highly distorted perceptions of the past two days. On each question, literally EACH question, I could honestly reply "depends."

I read "Driven to Distraction" years ago. I missed nearly all the great information the book contains on that first read. I read it again last week. Damn, it is a very good book and has tons of accurate beneficial information I can use now. My physical health problems at the time were badly worsening my unknown-to-me ADHD symptoms. I couldn't see clearly how the book described me before the chemo. My liver doctor suggested that I look into ADD. I read "Driven to Distraction."

My first few "shrinks did not ask for my medical records. The dumb stupid bozos had no clue that physical health problems were exascerbating my symptoms. No doctor can manage our health care without our medical records.

One of the symptoms listed in Driven to Distraction: "Inconsistent performance despite great effort. People with ADHD do great one hour and lousy the next, or great one day and lousy the next, regardless of effort and time in preparation. They go from the penthouse to the outhouse in no time at all!

On each question, literally EACH question, I could honestly reply "depends." Now I could add, "depends on whether I'm in the penthouse or the outhouse on the day I'm answering the questions that will be used to determine whether I'm ADHD.

Does anyone else feel something just ain't right with mental health care?

Science can now say with certainty that genetics predisposes us to ADHD. Just a few months back, researchers discovered one of the many genetic abnormalities. Each of the many possible suspected genes have been described as having minor effect. Our ADHD genome comes about from the interaction between the specific abnormal genes each of us with ADHD possess. The is a lot of variations between each result set. Those variations powerfully influence the specific set of symptoms each of us display. Some are hyperactive. Some aren't. -- one of the many possible symptom variations. The genetic interaction result sets can and often do create the potential for other disorders along with ADHD.

Stressful environmental factors break the ADHD genome weak link. The physical environmental factors can include toxic chemicals. Kids without the ADHD weak link survive toxic poisoning unscathed. In my case, evidently birth problems deprived my little brain of O2 long enough to break me at my weakest link. Psychiatrists need to know about every event that can cause brain injury including accidents that did not merit a trip to the doctors office. Include seemingly inconsequential head impact events. Show me a kid that hasn't landed on his head a couple times? It is what us boy type kids do.

And, of course, there a few zillion environmental factors of the psychological type. You can diminish their impact by understanding how your son operates and then working with it. I'm not talking about parenting skills. You obviously are a good parent. Try implementing methods that utilize your son's ADHD method of operation.

Method 1: We do interaction well. No way to this day I can pay attention to a teacher's lecture. On the other hand, if the teacher lead me in a Q&A discussion, I'd find same topic so interesting I wouldn't know I learned, grasped and understood plus enjoyed the same subject material that painfully bored me while teach rattled on.

Method 2: Turn study into play. I made a model to help me understand the relationships between brain parts. I wrote a little code to see how voltages trigger neuron action. I had fun. And I learned. Cool.

I purposefully commented on ParanoidnWorry's post to underscore how well the methods she reported on work.

One of the causes of ADHD are genes that contain corrupted instructions that govern how neurons in the neuro-chemical signal transmission paths recycle norepinephrine and dopamine neurotransmitters. The signal sent fails to reach brain concentration support modules causing attention to behave like the attention of a mentally exhausted person. Executive functions that a bad hit from ADHD. Under developed executive centers inhibit a child's ability to learn how to control their thoughts and actions. Interestingly, Dr. Russ Barkley, a prominent research psychologist, recognized self-talk as our means of controlling our thoughts and actions -- especially those required to accomplish tasks, reach goals at that time when they should be completed. Self talk enables us to make decisions that keep us on track toward achievement and resist urges to satisfy immediate gratifications at the cost of our future.

May I suggest that you help your son "talk to himself." I'm in awe of the replies you received on this your thread. There is no way, anyone, can improve on the teaching methods Verucalise is using to help her ADHD son.

Read this quote carefully: "I also do not hold back on my son- I will speak to him clearly, concising, anything that works to get to him. I force eye contact, and tell him "I told you to clean your room, and you weren't. What were you doing?" "Playing with my toys." "What did I ask you to do?" "I don't remember." Then I point to his list on the door and he goes "Oh, YEAH!" and gets back on track. Sometimes, it's not that easy. But I use subtle clues and try to force him to remember, like "What happens when you leave your toys on the floor?" "Oh, crap, (insert baby sisters name) gets them!" "So what are you supposed to do to avoid that?" "Pick them up!"

Verucalise's artful use of questions will positively enable her son to master the self talk skills he'll need as an adult. She doesn't say, "I told you not to leave your toys on the floor. Bad boy. Smack, smack." Just kidding. Instead, "What did I ask you to do?" "I don't remember" is not a lie. Her boy doesn't remember. She says no more just points to the list. "Oh, yeah." Actually that sounds like me. He's back on track. "What happens when you leave your toys on the floor?" Believe me, her boy had not considered the consequences. I know cuz I was a boy once with ADHD. "Oh, crap, (insert baby sisters name) gets them!" I'd say the same except I'd euphemistically use "poop" instead. I like the kid already. Got him thinking about the consequences of his actions. Then Mom comes in with the knock out question: "So what are you supposed to do to avoid that?" "Pick them up!" Now the boy is thinking about how to prevent the evil sitter from stealing his valuable assets.

Really good stuff, Verucalise. I hope every parent with ADHD children study, no, memorize word for word, your sage parenting ADHD children advice. You probably love the kid too, don't you? :D That helps a lot too.


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