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this is only my opinion on the subject....why do they make this drug?...suboxone was made initially in europe...it was actually called buprenex,which by the way,is the drug i was on for 4 years...it is the parental drug of subutex/suboxone...so people would not have to inject it like i did...the drugs medical name is bupenorphine...it was used to initially treat pain but they found it works good to help addicts and depression...how does it help addicts?...it is a low abuse level opiate...same as a diahrea opiate called lomotil...when consumed it has a ceiling effect meaning after you take a certain quantity nothing happens to you medically..its effect only go so high...if i had pain and took an ampule of buprenex and then took another,i would be wasting the second one,the first wil only do so much for my pain...so it does good for a addict who tries to consume x amount....it controls the w/d symptoms and has some positve side effects for opiate abusers,ie..depression,anxiety,ect...the govt lobbed it in with the principal behind methadone...as a method of maintance until the individual can be stabilized on it and then be treated emotionally/physocologically to understand their addiction problem and deal with it....technically,i guess from what my doc says and he is a recovering addict,that addicts will take the med and then slowly detox from it and become sober,by using principals such as a/a or n/a...by stem the physco part of it by disassociating with addicts and work on a recovery program of some sorts...lets say they never made suboxone...would you be on methadone......or maybe you could take dilaudid and it would do the same thing....i was addicted to lortabs...50 a day,my tolerance level...i started the bupenorphine program...did not need to take the lortabs cause the bupe took away my w/d's....i still had to go get a script and go buy them.....i didnt have to go to the ghetto...whats better...goin to the ghetto or to the doc...naturally to the doc....withdrew myself from that enviroment to surround myself with recovering addicts and listen to the message of sobriety...now im supposed to learn from the message and work myself to free me from the maintance drug...im on methadone but i dont go to a clinic...im fortunate...my doc writes me the script...docs can write scripts for methadone...im on it for maintance but i also have a back pain issue...is it better to be on suboxone than hydros...i say yes..no acephetamin..liver problems...my doc says 1000mgs is harmful...however the suboxone is a opiate so it has the side effects...withdrawing from it brings the same consequences as withdrawing from hydros...diahrea,insommnia,restless leg syndrome,ect.....but it is a way to treat hard core opiate addiction...it helps the same as methadone...controlled addiction by our society...the govt has set guiedelines to follow...you dont have to go to a clinic though like many methadone clinics...it is A LONG ACTING OPIATEalso...some folks can take it every other day...methadone has to be taken every day....some folks will be on meth for the rest of their lives and some will now be on suboxone...they(medical society) doesnt want you to be on meds the rest of your life...it is supposed to be a short term thing till we see the negative side of opiate abuse and get sober.....now to be totally honest with you...after a long time/years of pill abuse why do you think this is going to help you?sure your not taking your hydros anymore,but you are taking opiates and if you were to stop you will feel the same anguish as if you stopped taking the hydros...im not a anti subox supporter..shoot,im on 60mg of methadone....but if i stop taking the meth tomorrow im gonna be sick...and if you stop the subox youll be sick...so what are we doing?prolonging the inevitable?why do we take opiates?i take them cause of pain first and then because im addicted to opiates..it is most likely at this stage of my life why i take methadone...so i wont withdraw and be sick for weeks...and deal with my paqin...if i had no pain why would i need the opiates?..cause id be sick for weeks from the w/d's and i dont want to deal with that now...hence im an addict...now if i cant control my addiction thats the first step to recovery...knowing it controls me....why do you take the suboxone?...to stave off w/d's?...euphoria?...subox is good cause as your usage goes you dont feel euphoria after awhile...you feel normal...but your not....your taking a chemical to feel normal....thats what addictions all about with opiates....so how do you deal with your addiction...if you want it to stop you go to a doc,he puts you on subox...you start to edify yourself about addiction...and your supposed to quit...an alcholic has to quit to be sober...there is no other drink he can switch too....if you want to be sober,you quit also...as addicts we find the easy way out..a new drug..ec t...but in the end if you think about it...methadone/suboxone are drugs...its a moral/ethical issue also...i dont claim to be right...im only a human with a disease also...but i feel like im in recovery..certainly not drug free but i will be...itll take a long time because of the drug im on now...its a great topic for conversation also......chef
Banker,
I think you bring up an interesting topic for discussion.
I have not yet read anybody elses posts yet becasue I just wanted to respond to yours and then read.
I believe I was here at some point before you Banker. I don't remember you.

My present is, is that I am not on suboxone, 8mg/day and doing very well on it. I am very grateful. When I first got here I was so scared; I was taking 20-25 vicodin per day for 4 months (a relapse). This board also helped me through a detox, but I relapsed again.

I was very afraid to take the suboxone because it was an unknown to me. At that time, there were many, many people (sparko-cet will probably remember) who had just started to take suboxone and said it was a miracle drug, a wonder, and were very very happy to have found it.

I came along, did research on it, and asked alot of questions; like what happens when you want to withdraw from suboxone? And isn't it really like substituting one addiction for another. These were questions to help me make a decision because I was waffling so much. I did not mean to put any kind of damper on suboxone, but I guess i did by bringing up any possible negative thing about it, because people began to get mad at me for even asking these questions. People perhaps didn't want to face the reality of the answers to the questions at that time probably because they were where you are now - doing well, it's saved your life (as it did mine). It bothered people so much that there were many complaints about me and my comments about suboxone. They were really innocent and I certainly did not want to put a damper on anybody elses progress with it. I just wanted to know. Is it true that it's easier to withdraw from than pills. I swore to myself I would never get on methadone because I heard so many nightmares about people taking a year to get off and feeling so bad for so long. Was this going to be the same? The Drs. told me know. And the people on the boards weren't exactly sure but told me know.

So, while I understand where you are coming from, exactly, with what you are feeling every time someone talks about the problems of suboxone, I also identify with them somewhat. I know they don't mean to burst your bubble of mine.

I personally though have a big problem with those that go the NA route, and congratulations to them for working hard and somehow manage to stay sober, to hold it against those that have not been able to sto relapsing, so they choose another form of treatment, like suboxone. I asked my counselor recently, because they want me to go to NA meetings, etc. what do I say about suboxone, because even in the group meetings, some people resented me for taking suboxone, and their insurance wouldn't cover it so they had to do it the 'hard' way. What they don't understand, is that I did it the hard way too, so many times.

Am I taking the easy way out? I don't know. But at this point, I don't care. I'm absolutely thrilled to suddenly be off pills completely, not tempted. Wow, what an accomplishment for me. I was going to take Spark-o-Cet advise a month ago and quit early like his girlfriend, but I truly did not feel mentally ready. So I didn't. And, I would have no problem taking it for life if I felt that was best. Society will always try and make you feel guilty, and that in turn makes others feel guilty within themselves sometimes that they are just substituting. I try not to care what other people think, but how am I doing - feeling, etc.

What others think is not important when it comes to this. Maybe someday I will get off, but I'm not going to start worrying about withdrawal until that day comes.

And Banker, if it makes you feel any better, everybody's chemistry is different. I talked to a client of my Dr who got off suboxone with minimal problems after a 3 months taper. She didn't miss work, wasn't sick, and said it no way compared to getting off pills. So - everyone is different.

I apologize for being so long-winded.
Murphy





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