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Addiction & Recovery Message Board

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[QUOTE=howard678]Of course a wine glass of hard liquor would contain more alcohol than the same of wine. The point though is that alcohol addiction is just that, and this person is here saying they are addicted I believe. ;) It makes no difference if it be Barcardi 151, wine, beer, Niquil, or after shave lotion. It is a matter of one`s preferred means of consumption. As to taste, cost efficiency, avalilability, how much they mind frequent trips to the bathroom, whatever... A.A. is full of alcoholics that prefer beer, and there are many social drinkers that prefer hard stuff. It is like saying that someone is going to have an easier time with benzo withdrawals if they come off a daily habit of taking 20 .25 mgs Xanax tabs as opposed to 5 1 mg tabs. The issue is alcohol intake and addiction, not the type of beverage. My objection is that this person may be led to believe that drinking beer instead of hard stuff may in some way make things easier on him. Or that he could get the idea that drinking some beer is okay. Very risky if an alcoholic.

As to the benzos for alcohol detox, fully appropriate. Fast detox is the way to go for alcoholics so sunk in the mire of symptoms and cravings that they can hardly stop. But a hospital setting is preferred for those that can get in them. Three or four days of moderate benzo use to make withdrawals more comfortable, prevent a seizure, the DTs (can be fatal) and the rest of the short term craziness that can go on is appropriate. Let us not become so anti-benzo that we deny legitimate very short term, and in some cases, life saving uses. Same goes for a coke or meth addict that shows up at the hospital with their heart jumping out of their chest. A shot of Valium has surely saved many a life. So I have to object to the "anethesia only" argument that has been promulgated here (not by you) as it could cause someone to refuse needed treatment as a result of being scared unnecessarily on the net.

P.S. He was already told to not use the benzo past a few days. I would more suggest taking a regime of the benzo those few days as if they wait until it is "needed" they could already be heading into a tailspin. Alcohol withdrawal, though brief, can be serious business.[/QUOTE]

My point was that hard liquor is more potent, which may cause alcoholism more promptly and easily than weaker stuff, and have higher tolerance/withdrawal issues.

Benzos are not all created equal either, as some such as Ativan and Klonopin are more potent, targeting more receptors than let's say, the weakest which is Valium. Most would agree(including experts) it is harder to get off Ativan than Valium, thus the preferance of Valium taper. Potency does have a factor in all drugs/alcohol.....

....but I'm not disagreeing with you in the fact that this guy does have a problem! Twelve beers a day, everyday, is alcoholism and must be dealt with! I'm not sure if benzos are the best treatment, as the other poster mentioned Clonodine and since his doctor used it, I think it may be a viable alternative to benzos for detox.

Now, since he has used the Xanax already, perhaps continuing very small doses may help short term to get him out of the woods with the beer situation and seizure/delirum tremors free, as long as he doesn't forget to respect it and keep it small doses/short time on.

Now, I'm not real sure about the shaving lotions, but I think Old Spice aftershave, being an earlier one, is less potent than ones like Aramis but who knows, that old fisherman looked way too clean and fresh after a day of fishing so the Old Spice may be pretty strong stuff. :D
[QUOTE=Jennita]Hey, it's not just the half life but since they are low potency with the availbility of low dosage pills, they are easier to cut down! A 3 mg. Valium is like a quarter potency of a 1 mg. Ativan. Easier to reach those low, low dosages when cutting up pills!

In referring to receptors, benzos are not all created alike. They do have different chemical compounds, and effect the brain a bit different although basically alike; for example, Klonopin is the one which has anti-seizure benefits and is prescribed for such, Ativan and Xanax are more for panic/anxiety, and ones like Restorial and Halcion are strictly hypnotics. Ambien is only slightly able to pass for non-benzo, missing one receptor activity. But it bites just like the's sort of that obnoxious 2nd cousin always horning in on family events.

See, although in the same family, benzos are different chemically and how they effect the brain; I'm guessing alcohol, since there are so many different types, might be sort of like that too?

But both share the same effect of being absolutely no good for anyone on a regular basis.

Anyway, I agree with you basically on all counts. Hopefully this guy/gal (where?) in the meantime, while we are chatting, is getting himself off the booze safely and being careful to avoid getting hooked on Xanax in the process.[/QUOTE]


Internet benzo brain science and recovery is a world of it`s own, complete with it`s own creeds and terminology, and a wide range of claims and testimonies. I`ve done my homework. I`d say I believe about 25% of it, take 50% with a grain of salt, and reject the other 25. I told you my source on the receptor binding, check it out. I do not necessarily buy it myself. Ashton concludes her manual by saying that more research is needed and, in so many words, that she is not claiming to have the final word. That is responsible of her in my estimation. Unfortunately, many that have spring boarded from her are far more sure of themselves and engage in much embellishment, somtimes to the point of the bizzare. What I do buy for sure is that Valium is the best benzo to taper, that I need to minimize stress, and come off these drugs. That is all I need to know.

On the alcohol, as far as I know, ethyl alcohol is ethyl alcohol, produced through fermentation. I doubt there is much of an analogy between this and certain pill types within a family made by chemists in a science lab. But if you come to believe there is, feel free to affirm it here without challenge from me. But do not expect me to accept it uncritically or invest my attention with it. IMO, there comes a time to get on with one`s life and stop fuming at drug companies, doctors, and world economies, stop reading internet horror stories that often may be totally unrelated or only partially related to benzos, stop analyzing brain theories, and stop reading the posts of a minority that remains around the net overtly or invertly promising others long term doom and gloom. This is a disease all it`s own. I am closing that chapter.

To those with the drinking problem, I`d say A.A. is probably your best source. They have been at it 60 some odd years. They can help you decide if you are alcoholic and give good guidance about how to get and stay sober. And you may just find a good home among these many fine people. But like anything else, you got to want it...

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