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Note:
[B]The Sample Home Detox (w/OTC WD Coping Options)[/B] has been established by the Moderator as a sticky post and can be found as the top "sticky post" at the top of each list. [B]

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Following are the various discussions regarding it and detox in general.
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[U]My personal experience with the OTC Coping Options List:[/U]
3 times----first with Vicodin, Xanax, and then Tramadol. It has been a year since I last detoxed. And, I am having surgery again in a month and came to the Boards to find information on managing post-surgery concerns. Several people were on the same board in the middle of detox and on bridge of aborting so I went digging for all my personal journal notes on how I did the home detox. It is a compilation of home detox suggestions from various people on various boards, and as written represents my own personal detox plan. I thought I would post it here to help others. I was sooooooo greatful to find OTC relief to help me get through it that I wanted to give thanks by giving back to others. The more that we can help others get off this crap the better. It is a horrible demon to have on your back-----as we all know, you transition from painfree euphoria to an imprisoned Vicodin haze that blunts and controls everything in your life where nothing else begins to matter except counting and splitting pills to get to your next RX date:(

For me, each time I used almost everything on the list. The only thing I didn't need was the Immodium; never had the runs that most do...so that shows that everyone will not experience WDs exactly the same, but there are universal things as stated on the list. For me the Xanax and the Tramadol detox was far worse and longer than the Vicodin. Though let there be no doubt that Vicodin is difficult as evidenced by the fact that so many end up having to professionally detox to be successful. However, with this list and self-dertermination folks can do it. The worst of the Vicodin detox is usually days 2-4 for most people where you are definitely not functioning well, and not sleeping hardly at all. After Day 4 things start stabilizing where you can at least sleep some and that helps. I definitely was not able to work during that time. As to what works, everything on the list collectively helps. For what works best, if I had to single any one thing out I would have to say hot baths. Almost always when I was absolutely at the end of my rope I would run a bubble bath of water as HOT as I could stand it as that would settle nerves and leg twitches, but only temporarily. For the first 4 days I probably took somewhere between 6-10 HOT baths a day. Next, would be the hot rice socks to settle the same symptoms whenever I was too waterlogged or exhausted to get in the tub. It is really hard to single any one thing out though. For example, sleep deprivation is horrible and all the things that helped induce sleep also helps. But then there is the 20-30 min day exercise----sooooooooo critical to get that body working for YOU again...it takes 20-30 min a day to get your endorphins jumpstarted and producing natural dopamine. When that kicks in the WD joint pain subsides considerably. Now, I can tell you that the Zinc/Magnesium part of the formula is a recent addition, and that was not part of my original formula, but based on the experience of others it seems extremely critical. Every last one of the people that added it, and they were in the middle detox, felt some relief right away and said the relief built everyday. From their experience we concluded that if you were to start the Zinc/Mag 1-2 weeks in advance and build up that it would make a major difference. It not only helps w/WD pain and depression, but folks after detox stated it helped them with pain management since they were no longer on RX pain meds.

When I did my detoxes I researched and prepared well for it as I was terrified to detox at home, but there was no way I was going through the open humilation of professional detox center. I am sure I spent over $200 for everything I bought to do the detox. Sounds like a lot, but pales in comparison to what I had been spending for years on medications....so, I reconciled it with myself that it was my insurance policy to ensure success of ridding myself of that tether to a pillbottle.

As to percentage, I have not detoxed without using the formula so its really hard to say on that. I have no doubt though that without the formula, for me personally I am not sure that I would have made it through the Xanax or Tramadol detox without it. I would have likely made it on the Vicodin detox but I think it would have been twice as bad. I can tell you the most recent gal to do it, just got her Vicodin RX for 120 pills filled last Wed and by the following Tues she had only 1 pill left. She was forced into this because no more pills....cold turkey from 120 pills in one week type habit to 0, OUCH. I gave her the list to help as she was terrified as to what to expect and could not tell her husband what she had done. Well, today is Day 3 cold turkey for her which is usually one of the worst days, and she remarkably states she feels pretty good and thusfar is having minimal WDs---pretty phenominal, but things could be delayed...who knows, bless her heart. I know the principal thing from the list of what she is using that she seems to be crediting the difference to is the Zinc/Mag (must be taken w/food or it will make you sick). I know that she is also using Immodium and other things from the list to help, but she has not yet specified exactly what things. She was thrust into detox with no planning so no time to plan and shop in advance so she is having to use things that she already had at home, and fortunately she had Zinc, Immodium, and a few others. I will ask her specifically what she has.

Once you cut that pillbottle tether rope, the rope wraps tightly around the pole for a few days while in WDs, but then it loosens, lets go, and hangs straight giving you control of YOUR life back....FREEDOM. It is a wonderful feeling to be a full functioning memeber of my family again and not thinking of pills the first thing when I wake up in the morning. Anyway, hope I have answered your questions; am happy to help.
Hello everyone. Since clearly there are a several folks reading this thread I decided to add additional information about how I first ended up on the painkiller merrygoround in hopes that it may help others to recognize signs/concerns more quickly than I did.

I struggle w/Fibromyalgia. My doctor's treatment philosophy was pain meds which is how I ended up on long-term Vicodin in the first place. I was frst placed on it for a back injury, and during the diagnostic of that back injury they learned I also had Fibromyalgia, voila--painkillers. After I built tolerance/dependency, and the Rush Limbaugh media coverage mess, I wanted off. My doctor switched me to Tramadol/Ultram, which he said was non-addictive; wrong. For me that detox was actually worse than Vicodin. The leg syndrome and central nervous system impact of the Tramadol detox was worse. My doctor insisted it couldn't be because it is supposedly not addictive. All you have to do is read message boards online and see what others post on their experience with Ultram/Tramadol, and you will see it is clearly addictive w/WDs. After that experience I should have stayed off for good, but allowed my doctor to put me back on the Vicodin again. Big mistake, can't believe I was so stupid to let that happen after what I had been through already from it-- but I did. My doctor said I would be fine fine w/it since I had been off of it for months. Well, I wasn't fine with it. I should have STAYED off of it! Within 3 months, perhaps even sooner and I just didn't sense the signs, I had rebuilt tolerance and dependency again. After that, I decided I absolutely have to get off of ALL this RX level painkiller stuff for good because clearly the medical field just doesn't know enough about it. I mean when they put you on stuff and tell you it is non-addictive and with your own experience you learn that for you it is worse??? The bottom line is they just don't know or they are not being honest about it. Either way, it means I am done being a long term lab rat regarding RX level painkillers

Now, I rely on OTC stuff, nutritional supplements, exercise, hot/cold pak therapy, TENS unit when it is really bad, acupuncture, and accupressure massage. For me, those things knock off the edges of it much of the time, but not always. But, then after I built tolerance/dependency w/painkillers not only did that no longer work, I now had a dependency problem to detox from So, for me, I was in a far worse situation in the long run. While the things I am doing now doesn't eliminate the pain completely, neither did the painkillers long term (only very short term for me), this is better for my needs. Now, I reflect back on it and wish I had realized all this more quickly and done something much sooner than I did. All the special events for loved ones through the years where I was awol because of being too "sick" to go. I realize now that what I was actually experiencing each month at the end of the RX cylce was miniseries days of WDs. I never tried to find "other supply resources", thank God because if I had then I may never have come to the much needed self-realization that I had to get off of it.

What has brought me back to the boards again reviewing posts, where I was compelled to post what I know to help others, is that I am now facing surgery again in a month which means short-term painkillers. I am wondering about the experience of others regarding dependency re-hook limits w/short-term post surgery painkillers?ny reply posts on that would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks:)
Hi jam. I don't know how long you have been clean, maybe I've missed that somewhere. But I can tell you that for me "short term" pain killers is how I got myself into trouble and onto a horrid roller coaster ride that lasted over a year. I am not trying to be pessimistic. There were times in my 11 years of clontinuous clean time that I had to have pain killers and truly took them short term, flushed the rest and didn't look back. Like, 4 years ago I had a hysterectomy. I took meds in the hospital through IV for about 12 hours after surgery. Went home with a prescription for Percocet and Mepergan if needed. I took Percocet like 3 times in the next 2 days and flushed the rest - never looked back.

But in August 2004 I injured myself at work. Long story short I was hooked on Hydro before I knew what hit me. Part of it for me was relaxing my program, not talking to others about what I was going through and keeping the idea in my head that I could handle it. I didn't get off them until September 2005 and then spent another several months battling another addiction to a product that was 10 times more horrible. I have now finally been off that for 6 days. The key for me has been talking about it, sharing with others (I'm involved in NA), going to therapy, being honest with my family, journaling, reading recovery related materials, light exercise and other uplifting things to keep myself occupied. I have been dancing around the house this morning to some of my teenage sons music :D . As ridiculous as that might sound....I feel so much better.

I guess my advice would be to keep the focus on recovery, share with someone close to you that can help keep you in check, get involved in meetings if you feel comfortable doing that, buy or print out some recovery related materials and read, post here or on other recovery centered boards, write and ofcourse follow your own wonderful advice about supplements and other aids to keep the focus.

God bless and good luck.
Syzy, many of us have felt what you feel. You have taken a hard first step, the decision to make a change in your life. You CAN do it. It won't be without a challenge, but with determination and courage you WILL prevail. Look at it this way, sooner or later in life you will HAVE to take this step anyway, it is inevitable for all. Life is truly very short, so whatever the bad parts are for any of us it is best to muster up the courage to stomp through the worst parts to shorten them as much as possible and fill your life with the quality good parts to the greatest extent possible. In doing nothing, we are in fact choosing to stay in the bad parts for longer than necessary whatever reason, and in my opinion that is truly when professional help is needed because we are incapable of truly helping ourselves. You, however, have recognized that you need to make a positive change and improve your quality of life. And, you will be so glad that you did.

I think that most failed detoxes are the result of not having a plan where when the worst part hits it is easier to allow yourself to abort. If you are prepared, know what to expect and have coping options to assist you to ride it out you will get to the other side of it. Read back through this thread to familiarize yourself with the detox cycle; plan and shop for your OTC detox coping options. Make sure you note times, what you take and in what combinations, and effectiveness for you....everyone's chemistry is different so you have to somewhat experiment with what combinations help take the edge off for you. Vicodin has a half-life of 4-8 hours, so that means that 8-16 hours after last dose is when the effects of WDs will begin....they will progressively increase and peak about days 3-5, lasting between 24-48 hours, varies based on individual chemistry. Some people feel WD relief between Day 4-5. Basically what you can expect is feeling like you have the worst case of the flu you have ever had. Symptoms vary among individuals, for example, many get diahhreah with fewer numbers reporting vomitting---I never had either of those, just some nausea for me....I had horrible joint aches, extreme "coffee jitters", headaches, and sleeplessness....a feeling that I just couldn't be "still with myself" ...the leg syndrome with cycle of restless legs/heavy legs/restless legs again.....difficulty concentrating....very easily aggitated....emotional roller coaster feeling from irritable to easily angered to weepy.

Just know that when it seems that it is at its worst is when you are about to turn the corner and reach the other side. Even after reaching the other side where the worst subsides your body still has to rebalance and build itself back again through good diet, supplements, and EXERCISE.

Plan your detox where your worst days will be days off from work. While some people have posted early in their detox that they are still working , my guess is that most if not all of them end up aborting the detox when the worst starts because I just can not imagine a person being able to continue working during that phase so for some they have no choice but to abort in order to be able to continue working. I know there is no way I personally could have worked during it....but, detox WDs are not exactly the same for every person. All of us have our own unique chemistries and state of health conditions so it affects us to greater and lesser degrees. Also know that many folks on another board have posted profound WD relief was obtained by taking Zinc/Magnesium, but make sure you eat food before taking it or it WILL make you very sick on your stomach. Also they say to get maximum benefit from it you really need to start taking it a week before commencing the detox. For those who have already started detox and looking for coping options, know that others who were already in detox before starting the Zinc posted they still received some relief with it so it is worth a consideration to start it.

Envision the process much like cutting loose a ball tethered to a pole.......when you cut lose your Vicodin tether bottle, your rope is going to wrap tightly around the pole for a few days w/WDs...then it will loosen, let go, and hang straight.....you just have to hang on while your body re-regulates itself again and kicks up its own natural production factory of endorphins to deliver natural dopamine from your internal source....it will work....you are designed by nature......you can prime the pump to get it working sooner and more efficiently by placing a demand for it on the body through exercise....very hard to do until you are through the worst of WDs however, but do as much as you can, it will help...even if you are only able to do resting position muscle tightening/relaxing exercises....just tighten muscles as rigidly as you can for as long as you can to place a demand signal from the muscle to the brain to get working damnit.
You have to wretch control back from the drug demon that has hijacked the operation of YOUR factory. You can do it. If I can do it, trust me, ANYONE can do it. I was absolutely terrified to detox on my own...wondering if I could do it without having to tell anyone.....I was just too humiliated to tell a soul about what I had allowed to happen to me so I was determined. That being said, there are people who MUST tell others in order for them to be successful where they need to have external pill controls or emotional support. I knew that was not me. My situation was that I had become drug dependent with RX through my doctor...my situation was not recreational at all....in fact I had been on the RX for so long that there was no euphoria effect at all and I never increased levels or bought sources elsewhere chasing that euphoria....for me it was about pain management and over time became about dependency managagement....fortunately I never evolved to the next level of abuse management...thank God....my heart sincerely goes out to all who are in that situation and still find the internal strength to fight and come back. I can only imagine how hard of a struggle that must be.
Hi Jam338, I am hoping you might be able to shed some light on my problem. Just to give you a little back ground info, breast cancer surgery 2003,put on norco for pain from the bone damage chemo did and the surgeries I hacve had. went up to 6-7 per day. Last monday i realized i was addicted and cut back. i saw your post and slowly went from 6 to 5 to 1 1/2 to 1/2 on last sunday. Monday of this week i stopped all together., I am also on arimidex which is a anti-cancer med that i will take for 5 years. it causes severe joint pain. It is now friday and my body is filled with severe pain. i mean pain that is keeping me up all night. my doctor gave me ultram,mobic, diclofenac (all arthritis meds). i was wondering if any of this pain could possibly be from the norco withdrawals? I have only been totally off for 4 days. My lower back feels like i was hit by a car. my elbows and fingers can hardly move. i am so afraid that this is just the pain that the norco was covering up. i am taking the vitimins you suggest for pain. i need to know if you have heard of people having severe body pain (not aches) after 5 days off a drug. did i get off to quick? can you make any suggestions? thanks so much, shelley
Hi Shelley, I am happy to offer suggestions for you to consider and decide for yourself on your best options as I am not a medical professional. I am very sorry about your bout with cancer, prayers are with you. Very glad you recognized dependency signs and commenced a taper reduction...good for you!!! congratulations!!!

Now, first regarding the symptoms you describe. They sound exactly like what would occur with drug withdrawals (WDs). According to the quick online research, Norco is a combination opiate derivative of both Hydrocodone (vicodin) and acetaminophen (tylenol). While WDs can vary from person to person based on individual unique chemistry balances, the typical universal WD patterns are the same as the worst flu one could imagine. In particular, the back and joint pain you describe would be very consistent opiate WDs. For some people days 3-4 are the worst and for others it can be days 5-6. The taper reduction you followed sounds like you may have tapered too quickly. Drug taper recommendations seem to vary greatly depending on the source. I have read varying taper dose recommendations that include, but are certainly not limited to, the following.

Taper dose by 20-25%:
-every 3-7 days (total taper elimiation would equal approximately 30 days)
-every 30 days (total taper elimation would equal 4-5 months)

So, it sounds like you did the total taper, 100% reduction, in about a week if I am reading your post correctly. If correct, then that sounds like a very fast taper, and would not likely eliminate or perhaps even lessen WDs. None of that is neither here or there since the good news is that you now at 4 or 5 days off:) Shelley, hang tough girl....you are going through the worst....know that when it is at its worst is when it is about to turn the corner and get better....do NOT abort....you have come too far.

Next phase is that you go through your central nervous system and muscles transitioning from the drug-deadened state they have been in as a result of external blocking.....your legs will at first feel very heavy....like they are on somebody else's body....it will be hard but not completely impossible to motivate....just rest as much as you can...it will pass in about 12-24 hours.....but, it will be replaced by restless legs where the nerve endings and muscles are coming to life again....you may experience lil electrical sensory tingling where at times it feels like you are having difficulty just being still with yourself....HOT BATHS....AS MANY AS YOU WANT TO TAKE AND AS HOT AS YOU CAN STAND IT.. (I took 6-10 hot baths a day), Use ASPERCREME if you have it and if not...heating pad or fill cotton socks with rice and make hot rice packs ...2 min in microwave....once the heavy legs stop and the electric legs start you MUST exercise...hard I know because you will be exhausted but you must.....it takes 20-30 min a day to jumpstart your body's own natural endorphin system to produce its own natural dopamine which is the body's defense chemistry against pain, depression, and supports sleep cycle. The vitamin/nutritional mega-dose supplements are intended to only help bridge the process until your body can start producing for itself. The human body is truly a miracle....it WILL produce what it needs when it is not interfered with by external factors. What has happened is when we introduced external products (painkillers) into our body's factory our brains read the signals and therefore responded by shutting down the factory since the supply was being externally provided. When you abruptly withdraw the external supply, and whoaaaaaaaaaa, the ole body jumps up and down, alarm bells start clanging like mad...aka WDs.....all signaling alerts.....heyyyyyyyyyyy she quit taking the s**t!!!! All your lil internal workmen are kicking the crap out of each other and YOU and running around looking for their equipment....they are not used to functioning together after the longggggggggggggg coffeebreak they have been on for months or years, however long you have been providing the external supply. But, they WILL get their act together and get back on the job and start producing what your body needs. The event that coordinates them is EXERCISE....it places an external demand on the system for more gojuice and fast....the more the demand (exercise) the more quickly organized they will get....it develops an internal rhythm for them where they function to the beat. It may all sound crazy, but it is true. If you can make yourself exercise for 20-30 min a day....it can be only walking.....we are not talking marathon running here.....start out gradual and build up...begin as soon as you can with the muscle tightening/relaxing exercises outlined in the Detox post ....then begin exercises as soon as you can even if only 5 min at time ...just do it 6 times a day and build up...just do what you can and as much as you can. After you are able to reach 20-30 min you will feel a difference within an hour of stopping. Once you start to feel it, and you WILL---I guarantee it, your own personal experience will motivate you to do more. You are sooooooooooooo close to victory lane Shelley!!!! Reread the Vicodin Home Remedy Detox post I did...there are many OTC options and suggestions.
jam338, you are truly a gift from God. I have had horrible abdominal pain for 2 days now. when i called my internist she said i went off the norco way to quick and that i should take a norco and call a detox doctor on monday to get help to do this. my husband does not want me to take a pill and he thinks i should just bite the bullet. but even as you explained i really did go off very fast. i feel like a failure if i take a pill after a week of no pills. i have not slept due to all the pain. i also have left over pain from my 6 months of chemo so i am not even sure if the pain i have is detox or just cancer pain. what do you think? do you think i should take a norco tonight and just give my body a break and then on monday start with a professional? it seems that all oyu people were able to do it on your own and were taking many more pills daily then my 6 or 7. i am so confused. i actually only have 3 norco left so it is not like i can take any more then 1 per day. what is your experience with htis? i trust your opinion. again, thank you for taking the time to help a complete stranger. regards, shelley :angel:
Ok:
Here I am again, 23 months after going through detox and rehab from Benzos and hydros. I was using them by docs increasing prescription because I have a severe case or Restless Legs Syndrome. They worked, so I thought what the heck. Accelerated the dose because of tolereance to the point of abuse. Lost my job because of abuse. I was clean for 17 months, blew a calf muscle playing racquetball and went to a doc in the box. PUT ON MY CHART THAT I WAS IN ADDICTION RECOVERY. He prescribed soma and hydro for the pain any way. Like an idiot, I filled them both.

Did OK for awhile, but went back to my sources for hydro. Been on them again for 6 months. At one time I was up to 10-12 a day. For the last couple of weeks it's been 5-6. I tried tapering. Didn't work. Decided to go cold turkey. I filled one last hydro prescription to do the taper "right." Listen to how smart I am: I bought valium 10s to help me sleep and with the restless legs as went through home detox. I haven't taken more than 2 per night for less than a week. But I've got a a very large supply of those.

Now I'm out of hydro as of last night. Used my last 3. So here I am ready to go cold turkey. Nobody knows this but me. I can't stand the shame of my wife knowing that I've relapsed. One lucky thing is that because of my job, we live apart during the week, so she only sees me on weekends or every other weekend. (Probably one of the reasons I decided it was OK to use again.) Even though I was down to about a 6 a night (didn't use during the day, only in the evenings), I've already started with the body aches, flu-like symptoms, restlessness, agitation, the whole nine yards.

I know I can do this. Even when I went through rehab under the doc's care the last time, it was pretty much cold turkey...no anti-depressants, no kind of medicine to help with the wd...two weeks of hell. The doc kept saying, "No one every died from lack of sleep or body aches." So I just toughed it out.

The kicker is that I am a well-known man, in a small town area and the AA/NA thing is a no go locally. I was put out of my profession for a year and just got back in. If it becomes known that I relapsed by my superiors, I'm done.

I'm ready to go cold turkey. I called in sick today and am ready to ask for two weeks vacation to get over the "flu."

I've read some of the helps listed above. Just want to know how effective they are and what else I can do?

I need some help, advice, and encouragement. Please. I feel so sad and so lonely, not to mention the shame. I promised myself and everyone I love that I would never be here again, and yet here I am. God, I need help and there is no one, no friend, no one I can think of that I can talk to about this mess

I'm on Cymbalta (anti-depressant), Trileptal for axiety (an epilepsy drug), and a small dose of mirapex for the restless legs that is decreasing in its effectiveness. I am not suicidal, but I am so depressed and so alienated, My job is a "help others" job and I smile and am pleasant to get through the day, but as I am coming off the hydro, at home it's tears and walking the floor for how stupid I am. How can I be so dumb having been through this so recently. I understand if no one replies. There's good advice above. The pain, along with the shame and isolation of living alone six days a week is awful when I'm sober. It's even worse battling this addiction.
CALFORNEY, AFTER 2 1/2 YEARS I AM ON MY 7TH DAY WITHOUT MY 6-7 NORCO. I BELIEVED THAT I COULD NOT GO WITHOUT IT. YOU AND I ARE NO DIFFERENT. I AM ALSO ON THE CYMBALTA AND I GOT SOME ATIVAN AND AMBIEN TO HELP ME SLEEP. I TAKE HOT ,HOT BATHS FOR THE LEG PAIN. I UNDERSTAND BEING ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. I THINK IN SOME WAY WE ARE ALL ASHAMED ABOUT ONE THING OR ANOTHER IN OUR LIVES. I WISH FOR YOU THE FAITH THAT GOD REALLY CAN GET YOU THROUGH THIS. I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH STAGE 3 BREAST CANCER IN 2003. I WENT THROUGH &%*&^ING HELL WITH CHEMO AND RADIATION AND I HAD 5 SURGERIES. I AM TOLD BY MY DOCTORS I HAVE A 1 IN 4 CHANCE OF DYING OF THE DISEASE. I'M 48. THE NORCO NOT ONLY TOOK AWAY MY PHYSICAL PAIN BUT IT MADE ME FORGET THAT I HAD CANCER! NOW WITHOUT THE FOG OF THE NORCO I FEEL LIFE. IT'S SCARY!
I HAVE TO TRUST THAT GOD HAS A PLAN FOR ME AND I CAN ONLY EXPERIENCE IT IF I AM CLEAN. I BELIEVE HE HAS A PLAN FOR YOU TOO. I HOPE YOU HAVE A GOOD NIGHTS SLEEP TONIGHT AND CAN FORGIVE YOURSELF FOR BEING HUMAN. SHELLEY :angel:
Shelley good for you...so glad to hear that you sticking with your detox, congratulations girl!!!! Shelley, please consider adding the zinc/mag supplement to help with the joint pain...many others have reported experiencing great results with it. It takes about a week to build up to maximum potential, but most report feeling a difference within a day or two of taking it. Just make sure that you take it ONLY after eating food; or, it WILL make you sick. My heart goes out to Shelley, you are going through soooooooooooo much. May guardian angels stay beneath your wings. Please keep posting your progress/experience/feelings. It will not only help you, but help others as well who are reading and hanging on the ledge as they contemplate their own detox plans/needs. As you know taking that first step is sooooooooooo very scarey...the only thing that can quell those fears for those who come behind us is for us to post on our experiences so they know what to expect and what coping options provided relief. Bless your heart for caring so much about others to reach out at such a difficult time in your life!





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