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[B]The Sample Home Detox (w/OTC WD Coping Options)[/B] has been established by the Moderator as a sticky post and can be found as the top "sticky post" at the top of each list. [B]

Following are the various discussions regarding it and detox in general.

[U]My personal experience with the OTC Coping Options List:[/U]
3 times----first with Vicodin, Xanax, and then Tramadol. It has been a year since I last detoxed. And, I am having surgery again in a month and came to the Boards to find information on managing post-surgery concerns. Several people were on the same board in the middle of detox and on bridge of aborting so I went digging for all my personal journal notes on how I did the home detox. It is a compilation of home detox suggestions from various people on various boards, and as written represents my own personal detox plan. I thought I would post it here to help others. I was sooooooo greatful to find OTC relief to help me get through it that I wanted to give thanks by giving back to others. The more that we can help others get off this crap the better. It is a horrible demon to have on your back-----as we all know, you transition from painfree euphoria to an imprisoned Vicodin haze that blunts and controls everything in your life where nothing else begins to matter except counting and splitting pills to get to your next RX date:(

For me, each time I used almost everything on the list. The only thing I didn't need was the Immodium; never had the runs that most that shows that everyone will not experience WDs exactly the same, but there are universal things as stated on the list. For me the Xanax and the Tramadol detox was far worse and longer than the Vicodin. Though let there be no doubt that Vicodin is difficult as evidenced by the fact that so many end up having to professionally detox to be successful. However, with this list and self-dertermination folks can do it. The worst of the Vicodin detox is usually days 2-4 for most people where you are definitely not functioning well, and not sleeping hardly at all. After Day 4 things start stabilizing where you can at least sleep some and that helps. I definitely was not able to work during that time. As to what works, everything on the list collectively helps. For what works best, if I had to single any one thing out I would have to say hot baths. Almost always when I was absolutely at the end of my rope I would run a bubble bath of water as HOT as I could stand it as that would settle nerves and leg twitches, but only temporarily. For the first 4 days I probably took somewhere between 6-10 HOT baths a day. Next, would be the hot rice socks to settle the same symptoms whenever I was too waterlogged or exhausted to get in the tub. It is really hard to single any one thing out though. For example, sleep deprivation is horrible and all the things that helped induce sleep also helps. But then there is the 20-30 min day exercise----sooooooooo critical to get that body working for YOU takes 20-30 min a day to get your endorphins jumpstarted and producing natural dopamine. When that kicks in the WD joint pain subsides considerably. Now, I can tell you that the Zinc/Magnesium part of the formula is a recent addition, and that was not part of my original formula, but based on the experience of others it seems extremely critical. Every last one of the people that added it, and they were in the middle detox, felt some relief right away and said the relief built everyday. From their experience we concluded that if you were to start the Zinc/Mag 1-2 weeks in advance and build up that it would make a major difference. It not only helps w/WD pain and depression, but folks after detox stated it helped them with pain management since they were no longer on RX pain meds.

When I did my detoxes I researched and prepared well for it as I was terrified to detox at home, but there was no way I was going through the open humilation of professional detox center. I am sure I spent over $200 for everything I bought to do the detox. Sounds like a lot, but pales in comparison to what I had been spending for years on, I reconciled it with myself that it was my insurance policy to ensure success of ridding myself of that tether to a pillbottle.

As to percentage, I have not detoxed without using the formula so its really hard to say on that. I have no doubt though that without the formula, for me personally I am not sure that I would have made it through the Xanax or Tramadol detox without it. I would have likely made it on the Vicodin detox but I think it would have been twice as bad. I can tell you the most recent gal to do it, just got her Vicodin RX for 120 pills filled last Wed and by the following Tues she had only 1 pill left. She was forced into this because no more pills....cold turkey from 120 pills in one week type habit to 0, OUCH. I gave her the list to help as she was terrified as to what to expect and could not tell her husband what she had done. Well, today is Day 3 cold turkey for her which is usually one of the worst days, and she remarkably states she feels pretty good and thusfar is having minimal WDs---pretty phenominal, but things could be delayed...who knows, bless her heart. I know the principal thing from the list of what she is using that she seems to be crediting the difference to is the Zinc/Mag (must be taken w/food or it will make you sick). I know that she is also using Immodium and other things from the list to help, but she has not yet specified exactly what things. She was thrust into detox with no planning so no time to plan and shop in advance so she is having to use things that she already had at home, and fortunately she had Zinc, Immodium, and a few others. I will ask her specifically what she has.

Once you cut that pillbottle tether rope, the rope wraps tightly around the pole for a few days while in WDs, but then it loosens, lets go, and hangs straight giving you control of YOUR life back....FREEDOM. It is a wonderful feeling to be a full functioning memeber of my family again and not thinking of pills the first thing when I wake up in the morning. Anyway, hope I have answered your questions; am happy to help.
Oh my gosh!!!

All I can say is thank you for posting this. From the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU!!! I am on a taper now and will be shopping tomorrow for all of this, whatever helps.

I am so motivated and you just fired me up even more. I WILL BE THERE VERY VERY SOON.

I went from 20 a day to 10 to 6 and today I took only 5. Almost there. (hydrocodone 10/325). It is working for me, I was fine today. a little sore but still manged to run the house (3 kids ages 7, 2 & 10 months, all with the flu, runs & puking).
Luvn, you are quite welcome. Its great that you are doing a taper. It is very hard I know....we have all been on some form of taper at some point if nothing more than splitting pills to make them last between RX I understand what you are going through is a real challenge, but good for you in your determination!! Focus on how great you are going to feel when it is over!!! Start building up your body nutrient base now w/good multi-vitamin and a multi-mineral, add additional C & E as they are excellent anti-oxidants. Most multi-vitamins have some minerals in them but you will need an additional broad spectrum multi-mineral supplement, plus extras of some particular vitamins; most importantly the Zinc, B-Complex pillform and B-Complex Sublingual Liquid Drops. The reason for both pillform and drops in the B-Complex is the pillform has higher levels of all the Bs except B-12 which is pointless to put in pillform because the body can not absorb it very well from pillform. B-12 is vital for energy and the central nervous system, but the body can only absorb it from natural dietary sources, injectable form, or sublingual liquid form under the tongue. The B-Complex sublingual w/B-12 has an elevated amount of B-12 w/very low amounts of the other B-Vitamins so it works well in harmony together.

Substance abuse in any form substantially robs the body of vital nutrients. For example, something we can all relate to as well is alchohol hangovers. Almost everyone has had one at one time or another in their life where the next morning you have the jittery shakes and jittery nauseous stomach. That is because high alcohol intake depletes the body of Vitamin Bs. If you take a VitB-Complex, 100 mg, before you leave the house or have first drink, it will substantially mitigate the hangover feeling. It will help even more if you also drink 2-3 glasses or more of water throughout the evening. Now will that work for heavy binge drinkers? Probably not. Will it work for people who have just a little more than they should? For most, probably yes, at least you will be somewhat functional the following day and not porcelain royalty or with one foot hanging off the bed;)

Vicodin addiction is not all that different, with the exception that the chemical composition in it blunts the body's ability to feel the full force of the nutrient depletion. However, once the Vicodin is stopped, that is felt full force and whiplash WDs begin. The goal is to mitigate that effect. Building a solid nutrient base BEFORE detox substantially helps and results in a more stabilized detox with lessened WDs. Adding the nutrients only AFTER the detox WDs have started requires substantially increased supplement levels and results in rollercoaster WDs, but can be done. The greatest success and the best for your body comes from the most stabilized and sensible approach; i.e., building a solid nutrient base first and supports more reasonable supplement levels during detox.

Exercise as much as you can. For the first several minutes your body's workmen are all trying, but they all doing different things and not working in efficient harmony together. It takes 20-30 min of exercise to get them synchronized and working in efficiently. Once they get used to it, they get organized and get on the job on their own more quickly. It is the only way to get your body's own natural factory working again. You see, not only have you been trapped in a Vicodin haze for sometime now, so has your body's workmen. They have all become slackers because they weren't needed as long as you were externally providing what nature designed them to do. So, they have been on a longggggggggg coffee break for however long you have been externally supplying a different source. Once the external source stops, it sends fire alarm bells loudly clanging and the workmen have jumped up and are running around all in different directions to finding to find their gear and figure out what the hell they did with the keys to the truck!!! It will take them a few days to get back on the job efficiently for you, but they will. They are designed by nature to do it naturally. By exercising YOU get them organized and it is your body's natural process of giving them instruction on what to do for you. If you don't give the instruction/exercise, they will eventually figure it out on their own, but it will take them longer without a crew leader, YOU!
WOW - Thank you, for having all this information on hand helps me to feel secure with detoxing! :)

I don't know what else to say but [B]Thank you!!!!!!!![/B]

Jam -

Although I'm currently on Sub and not fighting withdrawal, I just had to come on and tell you how much your post will be treasured by all who have thought about--are going through--or remember detoxing from opiates. You are so, so kind to have given us so many specifics...and answered all the questions we can never think of when we need to ask them! LOL!

Your blow-by-blow, minute-by-minute detox "rescue guide" should get a Pulitzer prize for service journalism! :-) It deserves to be part of the "Dummy" guide series...."The Dummy's Guide to Detox"!!!!

Thanks a million, Lynn :-)
I have tried some of what you have suggested and i must say exercise is probably the most effective of all. Starting Day2 - get at least 30 minutes and continue on Day3 and Day3 if possible. Out of sheer torture do I endure it during the WDs but afterwards, it most definitely stablizes your brain and body. Its very effective. I would say it is much more effective than some of the amino supplements. Also continue to do this in the PAWS stage as well. I have detoxed from Subutex and hydros several times already so I found that exericse was the most effective regimen out of them all.

Don't forget that the Immodium AD or Lomotil (RX)are opiods and non-addicting but can also decrease physical WDs. But you must taper off it if you use it. Do a search here for Immodium and how much to take depends on your hydro usage.

Good luck and take care. :cool:
You are quite welcome. If the post only helps but 1 person then it was worth my time and effort to do it. The fear of *what* to expect from detox is horrifying, especially for first time. Just knowing what to expect and some possible coping options somehow substantially strengthens people's ability to endure detox. Otherwise what happens is when WDs start getting "the meanies", the fear factor kicks in and works on your mind---all at the same time that your body cravings are acting like a damn 2yr old pitching a fit in the floor to MAKE you give in and give it what it craves. It is a challenge to cope with it all happening simultaneously and at a time when your clarity of thought is at its worst so you aren't able to analyze and sort it out while in the midst of WDs. That is why a well plan and prepared for detox is invaluable. When the s**t starts hitting the fan, you know what it is, how long to expect it on your doorstep, which all somehow helps to find the much needed inner strength to hang in there and endure. The detox process works up to a peak, usually between days 3-4, and just when it feels it is at its absolute worse and scaring the hell out of you is when many abort detox out of fear it will get worse or just not knowing what to expect....when in fact they are unknowingly right at the peak. If they can just hang on and endure it for the next 24-48 hours, it progressivlely turns the corner and starts to stabilize. Once the body realizes that you are NOT going to give it what it craves, like the 2 yr old pitching the fit, it will get physically exhausted from the fight and let go, relinquishing control to you. You will have won, but you must immediately take charge because like the 2 yr old it is going to try and test you just to see if you were serious. Your challenge is trying to show that YOU are in charge, through exercise, at a time when you will be physically exhausted from the battle. Your legs will begin to feel so heavy that they feel like they should be on someone's body. They just don't won't to work right for you. It will feel it is impossible during this phase to exercise, but there are things that you can and MUST do to work those muscles and let your body sense that YOU are giving the instructions. It is a re-training process. Start with the muscle tightening/release exercises mentioned in the 1st post or lift free wieghts with arms to get muscles and those little endorphin workmen organized and functioning....don't let em be slackers. When you slack off, it sends a signal to your brain to look for an EXTERNAL source, and "the craving critter" will revisit you agian. After the heavy legs phase and the feeling lifts, your nerve endings will start to come to life....they aren't used to functioning efficiently so they may have periodic misfires and give you muscle twitches and restless legs...HOT BATHS...Aspercreme and Hot Rice Packs(see 1st post on instructions) will help, WALK 20-30 min., and be sure to take the Zinc,w/food or it WILL make you sick---people have posted experiencing significant differences in muscle taming using Zinc. You may not yet be able or feel like dressing and going outside to walk. Its best if you can to get fresh air, but if you can't just walk around your house. I about wore my carpet and stairs out I think. When I planned my second detox I used one those small home exercise joggers, about $25 and it stores well on its side.

Detox is truly a battle of strength of wills; yours against the drug demon that has taken up residence in your body. You have to do the work and handle your own exorcism of the demon you let get ahold of you. You need to get YOU back in the driver seat of YOUR life again and in charge of YOUR destiny. Otherwise you are just along for the ride of wherever you are allowing that drug demon to take you. If you aren't steering your own wheel, then WHO is??? Scarey thought, isn't it? How could one reasonably expect to not crash and burn if you are allowing an addiction to determine and guide the course of YOUR life???? It's a difficult issue to face. We have all been there. But, once you ask yourself those questions and knowingly don't take charge of your direction, there isn't much left but for your loved ones to watch the flame burn out and mourn the loss of wonderful soul from their life, because even as a living being you aren't a full functioning loved one meeting anyone's needs-----not even your own.
Hello everyone. Since clearly there are a several folks reading this thread I decided to add additional information about how I first ended up on the painkiller merrygoround in hopes that it may help others to recognize signs/concerns more quickly than I did.

I struggle w/Fibromyalgia. My doctor's treatment philosophy was pain meds which is how I ended up on long-term Vicodin in the first place. I was frst placed on it for a back injury, and during the diagnostic of that back injury they learned I also had Fibromyalgia, voila--painkillers. After I built tolerance/dependency, and the Rush Limbaugh media coverage mess, I wanted off. My doctor switched me to Tramadol/Ultram, which he said was non-addictive; wrong. For me that detox was actually worse than Vicodin. The leg syndrome and central nervous system impact of the Tramadol detox was worse. My doctor insisted it couldn't be because it is supposedly not addictive. All you have to do is read message boards online and see what others post on their experience with Ultram/Tramadol, and you will see it is clearly addictive w/WDs. After that experience I should have stayed off for good, but allowed my doctor to put me back on the Vicodin again. Big mistake, can't believe I was so stupid to let that happen after what I had been through already from it-- but I did. My doctor said I would be fine fine w/it since I had been off of it for months. Well, I wasn't fine with it. I should have STAYED off of it! Within 3 months, perhaps even sooner and I just didn't sense the signs, I had rebuilt tolerance and dependency again. After that, I decided I absolutely have to get off of ALL this RX level painkiller stuff for good because clearly the medical field just doesn't know enough about it. I mean when they put you on stuff and tell you it is non-addictive and with your own experience you learn that for you it is worse??? The bottom line is they just don't know or they are not being honest about it. Either way, it means I am done being a long term lab rat regarding RX level painkillers

Now, I rely on OTC stuff, nutritional supplements, exercise, hot/cold pak therapy, TENS unit when it is really bad, acupuncture, and accupressure massage. For me, those things knock off the edges of it much of the time, but not always. But, then after I built tolerance/dependency w/painkillers not only did that no longer work, I now had a dependency problem to detox from So, for me, I was in a far worse situation in the long run. While the things I am doing now doesn't eliminate the pain completely, neither did the painkillers long term (only very short term for me), this is better for my needs. Now, I reflect back on it and wish I had realized all this more quickly and done something much sooner than I did. All the special events for loved ones through the years where I was awol because of being too "sick" to go. I realize now that what I was actually experiencing each month at the end of the RX cylce was miniseries days of WDs. I never tried to find "other supply resources", thank God because if I had then I may never have come to the much needed self-realization that I had to get off of it.

What has brought me back to the boards again reviewing posts, where I was compelled to post what I know to help others, is that I am now facing surgery again in a month which means short-term painkillers. I am wondering about the experience of others regarding dependency re-hook limits w/short-term post surgery painkillers?ny reply posts on that would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks:)
Hi jam. I don't know how long you have been clean, maybe I've missed that somewhere. But I can tell you that for me "short term" pain killers is how I got myself into trouble and onto a horrid roller coaster ride that lasted over a year. I am not trying to be pessimistic. There were times in my 11 years of clontinuous clean time that I had to have pain killers and truly took them short term, flushed the rest and didn't look back. Like, 4 years ago I had a hysterectomy. I took meds in the hospital through IV for about 12 hours after surgery. Went home with a prescription for Percocet and Mepergan if needed. I took Percocet like 3 times in the next 2 days and flushed the rest - never looked back.

But in August 2004 I injured myself at work. Long story short I was hooked on Hydro before I knew what hit me. Part of it for me was relaxing my program, not talking to others about what I was going through and keeping the idea in my head that I could handle it. I didn't get off them until September 2005 and then spent another several months battling another addiction to a product that was 10 times more horrible. I have now finally been off that for 6 days. The key for me has been talking about it, sharing with others (I'm involved in NA), going to therapy, being honest with my family, journaling, reading recovery related materials, light exercise and other uplifting things to keep myself occupied. I have been dancing around the house this morning to some of my teenage sons music :D . As ridiculous as that might sound....I feel so much better.

I guess my advice would be to keep the focus on recovery, share with someone close to you that can help keep you in check, get involved in meetings if you feel comfortable doing that, buy or print out some recovery related materials and read, post here or on other recovery centered boards, write and ofcourse follow your own wonderful advice about supplements and other aids to keep the focus.

God bless and good luck.
Your stories always seem to amaze me. You've been through alot girlfriend! I'm so in awe of you and your accomplishments- personally and professionally. You sound so wise in all of this. I'm very proud of what you've done and you keep on! Uuugggghhh to the rip off product. ;)

Jam338- I was talking to my massage therapist about fibro for a friend. She actually is treating one of her clients that way through massage therapy. She says it has helped her tremondously. You are absolutely RIGHT about all of that exercise , raising your heart rate, building lean muscle mass and getting as much as endorphins as much as possible during WDs days. I found that to be the best medicine....

Good luck all and take care. :cool:
I was on it for about 5 years. During that time I have detoxed 3 times, using variations of this formula, associated w/3 different medications; Xanax, Vicodin, & Tramadol.

It would really be nice if the medical profession would figure this s**t out so we don't have to concoct our own formula by hit/miss trials without a clue. I am convinced they know, and just aren't telling us. I mean if I have figured out as much as I have as a layperson then I know they know...they have to. This stuff isn't rocket science for pete's sake. They can put a man on the moon---they can figure this out. But just imagine how much money the pharmaceutical companies would loose from the millions they make on poor schleps like us? So, it should come as no surprise to us that it is in their best financial interest to do exactly as they do...nothing. They reconcile that reasoning with the fact that we are grown adults and have the right to make responsible choices for ourselves. Well, I exercised my right to do just that.

The trouble I have now is really watching my doctors who carelessly prescribe whatever without telling me the real dangers or worse yet telling me there ISN'T a I was told regarding Ultram/Tramadol they switched me to when I expressed concern about the Vicodin. Those WDs me were worse for me than w/the Vicodin! I am now close to paranoid level about what my doctors prescribe because with each medication I was prescribed by a doctor and never bought *other supply resources*.

People who reading these posts will hopefully learn from some of our experiences and avoid what we have been through. I trusted and followed exactly what the doctors prescribed. Because of that, I never thought I had a problem with it. I knew *some* people had problems but *those* were the people who buy it on the street or online...not prescribed by a doctor, *like me*...WRONG. I didn't know I had a problem until it was too late. Reflecting back on it now, the first warning signs for me were when I felt the urge to take early doses and wondered if I should take my doctor up on his offer to increase level/type of medication.....then when I started worrying about working my personal life schedules around when my RX was sign was when I had to start splitting pills because of accommodating early doses and my determination to not change meds...I'd just make these work but change my doseages around....*just based on needs*. Then sometimes I had fleeting thoughts about just wondering if online sources really work and how all that works.........IF *those* kinds of thoughts are going through your head....combined with the fact that *something* broght you to this board in the first place as evidenced by the fact that you are even reading this at all....then you already have an *awareness*, though perhaps maybe not quite yet an acceptance, that there may be a problem. If you are wondering at all, then it is time to do something. I just wish I had realized that earlier than I did.

GREEN, yes, if any one single thing must be the answer, then it would unquestionably be exercise. The human body is a marvelous creation designed to heal itself and care for itself. The "booster button switch" to the brain is exercise. Physical exercise exerts "a demand" on the body which signals the brain to produce "extra" of everything that will help it to heal itself physically and emotionally. All of the supplements in the home detox are intended to be time limited assist aides to help the body during the worst of WDs when a person is generally not very capable of exercise. The goal is to support the body with time-limited OTC coping supplements that will enable them to reach the physical energy/endurance point where exercise can begin; with a taper of the OTC supplements thereafter---ultimately replacing most, if not all, the OTC supplements with a good exercise program.

I've been lurking and trying to find the courage to take the first step to FREEDOM from Hydrocodone. Reading what you've posted here and when you wrote "...if it helps ONE person".....I felt you were talking to me.

I don't know how I'm going to do it; but I've got to. I'm tired....tired of being controled...tired of making sure I have a pill in my pocket.....tired and ashamed of what I've become. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't scared to death but I've reached the end of this road and simply cannot continue taking the damn pills.

I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this and if I do; please forgive me and bear with my mistakes. I need help and it seems to be here so here I am.

I don't have anything to contribute other than whining about my lack of responsibility and letting this take over my life.

If there is help here; help me......
Syzy, many of us have felt what you feel. You have taken a hard first step, the decision to make a change in your life. You CAN do it. It won't be without a challenge, but with determination and courage you WILL prevail. Look at it this way, sooner or later in life you will HAVE to take this step anyway, it is inevitable for all. Life is truly very short, so whatever the bad parts are for any of us it is best to muster up the courage to stomp through the worst parts to shorten them as much as possible and fill your life with the quality good parts to the greatest extent possible. In doing nothing, we are in fact choosing to stay in the bad parts for longer than necessary whatever reason, and in my opinion that is truly when professional help is needed because we are incapable of truly helping ourselves. You, however, have recognized that you need to make a positive change and improve your quality of life. And, you will be so glad that you did.

I think that most failed detoxes are the result of not having a plan where when the worst part hits it is easier to allow yourself to abort. If you are prepared, know what to expect and have coping options to assist you to ride it out you will get to the other side of it. Read back through this thread to familiarize yourself with the detox cycle; plan and shop for your OTC detox coping options. Make sure you note times, what you take and in what combinations, and effectiveness for you....everyone's chemistry is different so you have to somewhat experiment with what combinations help take the edge off for you. Vicodin has a half-life of 4-8 hours, so that means that 8-16 hours after last dose is when the effects of WDs will begin....they will progressively increase and peak about days 3-5, lasting between 24-48 hours, varies based on individual chemistry. Some people feel WD relief between Day 4-5. Basically what you can expect is feeling like you have the worst case of the flu you have ever had. Symptoms vary among individuals, for example, many get diahhreah with fewer numbers reporting vomitting---I never had either of those, just some nausea for me....I had horrible joint aches, extreme "coffee jitters", headaches, and sleeplessness....a feeling that I just couldn't be "still with myself" ...the leg syndrome with cycle of restless legs/heavy legs/restless legs again.....difficulty concentrating....very easily aggitated....emotional roller coaster feeling from irritable to easily angered to weepy.

Just know that when it seems that it is at its worst is when you are about to turn the corner and reach the other side. Even after reaching the other side where the worst subsides your body still has to rebalance and build itself back again through good diet, supplements, and EXERCISE.

Plan your detox where your worst days will be days off from work. While some people have posted early in their detox that they are still working , my guess is that most if not all of them end up aborting the detox when the worst starts because I just can not imagine a person being able to continue working during that phase so for some they have no choice but to abort in order to be able to continue working. I know there is no way I personally could have worked during it....but, detox WDs are not exactly the same for every person. All of us have our own unique chemistries and state of health conditions so it affects us to greater and lesser degrees. Also know that many folks on another board have posted profound WD relief was obtained by taking Zinc/Magnesium, but make sure you eat food before taking it or it WILL make you very sick on your stomach. Also they say to get maximum benefit from it you really need to start taking it a week before commencing the detox. For those who have already started detox and looking for coping options, know that others who were already in detox before starting the Zinc posted they still received some relief with it so it is worth a consideration to start it.

Envision the process much like cutting loose a ball tethered to a pole.......when you cut lose your Vicodin tether bottle, your rope is going to wrap tightly around the pole for a few days w/WDs...then it will loosen, let go, and hang just have to hang on while your body re-regulates itself again and kicks up its own natural production factory of endorphins to deliver natural dopamine from your internal will are designed by can prime the pump to get it working sooner and more efficiently by placing a demand for it on the body through exercise....very hard to do until you are through the worst of WDs however, but do as much as you can, it will help...even if you are only able to do resting position muscle tightening/relaxing exercises....just tighten muscles as rigidly as you can for as long as you can to place a demand signal from the muscle to the brain to get working damnit.
You have to wretch control back from the drug demon that has hijacked the operation of YOUR factory. You can do it. If I can do it, trust me, ANYONE can do it. I was absolutely terrified to detox on my own...wondering if I could do it without having to tell anyone.....I was just too humiliated to tell a soul about what I had allowed to happen to me so I was determined. That being said, there are people who MUST tell others in order for them to be successful where they need to have external pill controls or emotional support. I knew that was not me. My situation was that I had become drug dependent with RX through my situation was not recreational at fact I had been on the RX for so long that there was no euphoria effect at all and I never increased levels or bought sources elsewhere chasing that euphoria....for me it was about pain management and over time became about dependency managagement....fortunately I never evolved to the next level of abuse management...thank heart sincerely goes out to all who are in that situation and still find the internal strength to fight and come back. I can only imagine how hard of a struggle that must be.
What a great post! But what about alcohol abuse? Would these things help with home detox of alcohol?
Bocana, while I am not a medical professional, from a layperson's perspective, I think the detox formula options would help with any type of substance abuse detox.

Substance abuse of any type depletes/robs the body of its own natural, it stands to logically reason that replenishing those resources in mega doses plus "bridging" w/OTC treatment support options would help to lessen WDs.
Hi Jam338, I am hoping you might be able to shed some light on my problem. Just to give you a little back ground info, breast cancer surgery 2003,put on norco for pain from the bone damage chemo did and the surgeries I hacve had. went up to 6-7 per day. Last monday i realized i was addicted and cut back. i saw your post and slowly went from 6 to 5 to 1 1/2 to 1/2 on last sunday. Monday of this week i stopped all together., I am also on arimidex which is a anti-cancer med that i will take for 5 years. it causes severe joint pain. It is now friday and my body is filled with severe pain. i mean pain that is keeping me up all night. my doctor gave me ultram,mobic, diclofenac (all arthritis meds). i was wondering if any of this pain could possibly be from the norco withdrawals? I have only been totally off for 4 days. My lower back feels like i was hit by a car. my elbows and fingers can hardly move. i am so afraid that this is just the pain that the norco was covering up. i am taking the vitimins you suggest for pain. i need to know if you have heard of people having severe body pain (not aches) after 5 days off a drug. did i get off to quick? can you make any suggestions? thanks so much, shelley
Hi Shelley, I am happy to offer suggestions for you to consider and decide for yourself on your best options as I am not a medical professional. I am very sorry about your bout with cancer, prayers are with you. Very glad you recognized dependency signs and commenced a taper reduction...good for you!!! congratulations!!!

Now, first regarding the symptoms you describe. They sound exactly like what would occur with drug withdrawals (WDs). According to the quick online research, Norco is a combination opiate derivative of both Hydrocodone (vicodin) and acetaminophen (tylenol). While WDs can vary from person to person based on individual unique chemistry balances, the typical universal WD patterns are the same as the worst flu one could imagine. In particular, the back and joint pain you describe would be very consistent opiate WDs. For some people days 3-4 are the worst and for others it can be days 5-6. The taper reduction you followed sounds like you may have tapered too quickly. Drug taper recommendations seem to vary greatly depending on the source. I have read varying taper dose recommendations that include, but are certainly not limited to, the following.

Taper dose by 20-25%:
-every 3-7 days (total taper elimiation would equal approximately 30 days)
-every 30 days (total taper elimation would equal 4-5 months)

So, it sounds like you did the total taper, 100% reduction, in about a week if I am reading your post correctly. If correct, then that sounds like a very fast taper, and would not likely eliminate or perhaps even lessen WDs. None of that is neither here or there since the good news is that you now at 4 or 5 days off:) Shelley, hang tough are going through the worst....know that when it is at its worst is when it is about to turn the corner and get NOT have come too far.

Next phase is that you go through your central nervous system and muscles transitioning from the drug-deadened state they have been in as a result of external blocking.....your legs will at first feel very they are on somebody else's will be hard but not completely impossible to motivate....just rest as much as you will pass in about 12-24 hours.....but, it will be replaced by restless legs where the nerve endings and muscles are coming to life may experience lil electrical sensory tingling where at times it feels like you are having difficulty just being still with yourself....HOT BATHS....AS MANY AS YOU WANT TO TAKE AND AS HOT AS YOU CAN STAND IT.. (I took 6-10 hot baths a day), Use ASPERCREME if you have it and if not...heating pad or fill cotton socks with rice and make hot rice packs ...2 min in microwave....once the heavy legs stop and the electric legs start you MUST exercise...hard I know because you will be exhausted but you takes 20-30 min a day to jumpstart your body's own natural endorphin system to produce its own natural dopamine which is the body's defense chemistry against pain, depression, and supports sleep cycle. The vitamin/nutritional mega-dose supplements are intended to only help bridge the process until your body can start producing for itself. The human body is truly a WILL produce what it needs when it is not interfered with by external factors. What has happened is when we introduced external products (painkillers) into our body's factory our brains read the signals and therefore responded by shutting down the factory since the supply was being externally provided. When you abruptly withdraw the external supply, and whoaaaaaaaaaa, the ole body jumps up and down, alarm bells start clanging like mad...aka WDs.....all signaling alerts.....heyyyyyyyyyyy she quit taking the s**t!!!! All your lil internal workmen are kicking the crap out of each other and YOU and running around looking for their equipment....they are not used to functioning together after the longggggggggggggg coffeebreak they have been on for months or years, however long you have been providing the external supply. But, they WILL get their act together and get back on the job and start producing what your body needs. The event that coordinates them is places an external demand on the system for more gojuice and fast....the more the demand (exercise) the more quickly organized they will develops an internal rhythm for them where they function to the beat. It may all sound crazy, but it is true. If you can make yourself exercise for 20-30 min a can be only walking.....we are not talking marathon running here.....start out gradual and build up...begin as soon as you can with the muscle tightening/relaxing exercises outlined in the Detox post ....then begin exercises as soon as you can even if only 5 min at time ...just do it 6 times a day and build up...just do what you can and as much as you can. After you are able to reach 20-30 min you will feel a difference within an hour of stopping. Once you start to feel it, and you WILL---I guarantee it, your own personal experience will motivate you to do more. You are sooooooooooooo close to victory lane Shelley!!!! Reread the Vicodin Home Remedy Detox post I did...there are many OTC options and suggestions.
Shelley, I forgot to mention a caution about the Ultram aka Tramadol. Some doctors believe that Ultram/Tramadol is not addictive because it is not an actual opiate. However, it is a synthetic opiate like compound that acts like an opiate on the body's sensory perceptiors. It convincingly "acts" like an opiate, and the body reacts to it as such where it can trigger a dependency/addiction. Because much of the medical literature says it is not addictive, many doctors simply do not believe that it is. However, for those of us who have personal experiences with it, our opinions of it have been formed based on those personal experiences--not on medical literature. For many of us, our experiences with Ultram/Tramadol actually produced worse WDs than with actual opiate medications so please be very careful.
jam338, you are truly a gift from God. I have had horrible abdominal pain for 2 days now. when i called my internist she said i went off the norco way to quick and that i should take a norco and call a detox doctor on monday to get help to do this. my husband does not want me to take a pill and he thinks i should just bite the bullet. but even as you explained i really did go off very fast. i feel like a failure if i take a pill after a week of no pills. i have not slept due to all the pain. i also have left over pain from my 6 months of chemo so i am not even sure if the pain i have is detox or just cancer pain. what do you think? do you think i should take a norco tonight and just give my body a break and then on monday start with a professional? it seems that all oyu people were able to do it on your own and were taking many more pills daily then my 6 or 7. i am so confused. i actually only have 3 norco left so it is not like i can take any more then 1 per day. what is your experience with htis? i trust your opinion. again, thank you for taking the time to help a complete stranger. regards, shelley :angel:
PS i am not taking the ultram, it does not do one thing for me. nor does any of the otc stuff. all i have is severe body pain and severe abdominal pain, like i got hit by a car! thanks
Hi Shelley, first of all only you can decide what is right for you to do. Since your Internist has opted to simply refer you to a detox doctor then it suggests that she may not be familiar with detox or simply does not want to deal with it. I am assuming that you described the abdominal pain to the doctor when you spoke on the phone. Apparently your doctor did not feel the symptoms were at a level that should be alarming since she did not suggest that you come in to the office or go to a hospital to be examined. Opiate WDs frequently cause gastrointestinal distress as well as relentless diarrehea. So, there is a good chance that what you are experiencing could be from the WDs. If your situation was happening to me, personally I would not likely take the pill, especially since you said that you only have 3 pills left anyway. Taking 1 pill a day is unlikely to bring you substantive relief, but if the WDs are absolutely unbearable then perhaps you might reconsider it. It is a very tough decision, and one that only you can make. You are likely through the worst of it so I really hate to see you abort your detox to only start over again. But, if you have reached the personal determination that you want only to proceed with the help of professional guidance then that is exactly what you should do and have NO regrets and feel NO sense of failure or shame whatsover. Going through detox is a slippery slope for us all, and not many succeed on their first effort. Just know that you are likely through the worst of it, but follow your own personal instincts about what is best for you. Either way, you are going to be just fine:)
jam338, thank you for all the advice and support. i will discuss with my husband. regards, shelley :angel:
Any time Shelley, am happy to try and help if I's just tough as I really don't want to recommend that you not follow your doctor's advise while at the same time I also feel that you are soooooooooooooo close to being through the worst that I just hate to see you compromise your current detox, but you must do what your own instincts tell you is best for you, and whatever that is you will be supported 100%.....please keep posting your progress so that others can learn from your experience/decisions.
Hi Shelley, making decisions about your needs will move you closer to success. I know it is really tough, and you are going to be just fine. Prayers are with you.

Please feel free to refer as many people as you can to the Home Detox Post. I really don't view it as mine. I am only the coordinator of the ideas and suggestions posted by several different people over the years. I am retired and have time that others might not have to research online. So, when I decided to pursue my own home detox a year ago I researched the daylights out of several threads on several Message Boards. What I looked for were WD coping suggestions where several people were posting that they had tried something and found it helped them; whether it was a process or an actual OTC product. I used those suggestions during my own detox a year ago. I am now facing another surgery and returned to the online Message Boards to look for anything posted on post detox surgery dependency risks. In that process I read the struggles of so many people here who wanted to Home Detox but fear of WDs were either scaring them from starting or WD fears were scaring others to abort an inprogress detox. As result, my way of giving back to others was that I coordinated and posted the Home Detox to hopefully help others.

Everyone should feel free to copy/paste/post elsewhere----the more people we can help detox the better----that is the sole purpose of the Home Detox Plan, and without others doing that the formula will vanish and then be of no benefit to anyone!

I also hope that others will start posting more on this thread because it takes current postings to keep this thread on the main page where it is most visible to others. Without current postings this thread will move to back pages and not be as visible to new readers who may not know to scroll to back pages for other threads.

Shelley, regarding your own situation, you have made the right decision for you hon. With detox, one of the hardest things is make that tough decision that it is time to do something about your situation. Once you put that in play, that is huge part of the battle because you have mentally associated your situation and what you need to do. Once you have formed that mental association it is like ringing a bell----and, it is impossible to unring a bell---more specifically meaning that you now can not "unthink" those assessments and determinations about your circumstances and needs. That association and self-assessment is going to constantly be nudging and corraling you towards success.

For the benefit of others reading this post, perhaps you have tried and failed at detox. Know that no one chooses to fail at detox. The reason that people fail at detox is because of the fears of WDs. Those fears keep people from starting detox and causes people to abort detox from not knowing if what they are experiencing is normal and if it will get worst or reach a level that they can't cope or is a fear of loss of control in the ability to navigate one's own body. How you combat those fears is to first educate yourself about withdrawals (WDs), what to expect, and coping options that may lessen the WDs. You can do it. If I can do it, trust me, anyone can do this. No one could possibly be more scared than what I was to home detox. I had to find a way to make it work where I told no one. No one knew about my situation, not even my family, not my doctor---though I think he had to know since he had been prescribing to me for years and knew it was an addictive drug, so how could he not know? Anyway, for me, my detox had to be discrete. I wanted NOTHING documented on my medical records that could possibly ever jeopardize me regarding future employment options or health insurance or life insurance. For me that protection was HUGE. I wanted my life back EXACTLY as it existed before....not with marred or a black mark on medical records that would follow me forever. For me, self-disclosure into my records was am adverse cause and consequence action. Like, when you put an alert on your credit card you think you are doing the right thing that will protect your credit....but after you have done it, you learn that you have blocked your own ability to do anything regarding your own credit because you are treated and responded as a potential anonymous intruder where you now have additional challenges just to handle your own needs......for me, I did not want the previously stated, you can't unring a bell once it has been rung. But, it is a decision that everyone must make for themself. There truly are people who must have self-disclosure for accountability or they know they will fail. Neither is right or wrong; whatever is right for one's own needs to successfully accomplish detox is right for them:)
Here I am again, 23 months after going through detox and rehab from Benzos and hydros. I was using them by docs increasing prescription because I have a severe case or Restless Legs Syndrome. They worked, so I thought what the heck. Accelerated the dose because of tolereance to the point of abuse. Lost my job because of abuse. I was clean for 17 months, blew a calf muscle playing racquetball and went to a doc in the box. PUT ON MY CHART THAT I WAS IN ADDICTION RECOVERY. He prescribed soma and hydro for the pain any way. Like an idiot, I filled them both.

Did OK for awhile, but went back to my sources for hydro. Been on them again for 6 months. At one time I was up to 10-12 a day. For the last couple of weeks it's been 5-6. I tried tapering. Didn't work. Decided to go cold turkey. I filled one last hydro prescription to do the taper "right." Listen to how smart I am: I bought valium 10s to help me sleep and with the restless legs as went through home detox. I haven't taken more than 2 per night for less than a week. But I've got a a very large supply of those.

Now I'm out of hydro as of last night. Used my last 3. So here I am ready to go cold turkey. Nobody knows this but me. I can't stand the shame of my wife knowing that I've relapsed. One lucky thing is that because of my job, we live apart during the week, so she only sees me on weekends or every other weekend. (Probably one of the reasons I decided it was OK to use again.) Even though I was down to about a 6 a night (didn't use during the day, only in the evenings), I've already started with the body aches, flu-like symptoms, restlessness, agitation, the whole nine yards.

I know I can do this. Even when I went through rehab under the doc's care the last time, it was pretty much cold anti-depressants, no kind of medicine to help with the wd...two weeks of hell. The doc kept saying, "No one every died from lack of sleep or body aches." So I just toughed it out.

The kicker is that I am a well-known man, in a small town area and the AA/NA thing is a no go locally. I was put out of my profession for a year and just got back in. If it becomes known that I relapsed by my superiors, I'm done.

I'm ready to go cold turkey. I called in sick today and am ready to ask for two weeks vacation to get over the "flu."

I've read some of the helps listed above. Just want to know how effective they are and what else I can do?

I need some help, advice, and encouragement. Please. I feel so sad and so lonely, not to mention the shame. I promised myself and everyone I love that I would never be here again, and yet here I am. God, I need help and there is no one, no friend, no one I can think of that I can talk to about this mess

I'm on Cymbalta (anti-depressant), Trileptal for axiety (an epilepsy drug), and a small dose of mirapex for the restless legs that is decreasing in its effectiveness. I am not suicidal, but I am so depressed and so alienated, My job is a "help others" job and I smile and am pleasant to get through the day, but as I am coming off the hydro, at home it's tears and walking the floor for how stupid I am. How can I be so dumb having been through this so recently. I understand if no one replies. There's good advice above. The pain, along with the shame and isolation of living alone six days a week is awful when I'm sober. It's even worse battling this addiction.
Hi Calforney, prayers are with you for a successful outcome. As to how effective the OTC detox options are....they have helped many many people successfully achieve detox; but there are certain things on the list that you can NOT take if you are on SSRI anti-depressants; those things are noted. I am not sure what other precautionary concerns you should have since you stated you are on epilepsy medicine. Hopefully others who are medically knowledgeable can comment. I am NOT a medical person. You stated that you have previously detoxed from Benzos and Hydros, so you know what to expect. And, you already know that detoxing from Benzos is a detox from pure hell, far worse than Hydros, so this detox should not be as bad. Also, Benzo detox has grand mall seizure risks that don't typically exist with Hydro detox. So, if you were able to accomplish it before, you will be able to accomplish it again. Since you mentioned rehab in your post I am assuming your previous detox was inpatient? Did they prescribe or provide any special treatment for you that you need to incorporate into your home detox plan?

Everybody's body chemistry is different so it is trial & error to find what works for your own body chemistry. Those planning to home detox need to shop in advance and have WD coping options ready and available, because once full blown WDs begin you are not likely able to leave the house. You are wise to plan your time regarding work so that will relieve that worry. This is a bad flu season all over the country so you can easily pretextually use that both at work and at home. Its great if you can get 2 weeks off work. As you know, the worst of the detox will usually take a week, with about 2 days of that, usually Days4-5 or 5-6 being the worst, but the other days are no picnic. Afterwhich you will be absolutely exhausted, no energy, and may have some depression....the following week is your build back week with good nutrition, exercise, rest, nutritional supplements, hopefully a massage or two, and lots of water. It will help you to post your experience/feelings. You will not be alone. This Board has many caring people who have been through or are going through exactly what you are going through. Many will help support you through this.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY. I can hardly type for tears in my eyes that finally I've been able to "talk" to somebody about this relapse. My rehab last time was out-patient with no meds to counter-act the effects of wd. Just "talk therapy" and c/t.

The epilepsy med I'm on is not for personal epilepsy. I'm not an epileptic. The doc prescribed it after detox because one of the side effects of the trileptal is that it is has mild anti-anxiety effects.

I'll review your list above and make a shopping trip tomorrow (tonight maybe if I can't sleep - WalMart is open 24/7) My wife called just after my first post. I feel so bad about betraying her trust. She has been so great and so supportive and knew I would kick this...and here I am again. God, the guilt. Here's my deeper confession, if you don't mind hearing it: my "helping people" job is that I'm a pastor. What a hypocrite I am. Yesterday after church services, a parishioner stopped me to talk about her son's addiction. Oh, I had lots of good things to tell her. It was all I could do not to blurt out, "I'm an addict." I need so much for someone to talk to...I'm hoping this forum I just found this afternoon will help.

I promise, I'll read very carefully your list above so that I don't do myself more harm. Right now, the body aches and headaches, the restlessness and anxiety have kicked in large. This is the time of night I always dosed up, so I can tell it's going to be a long night.

Thanks so much for responding...for caring. If you are a praying person, please pray too, (as I will be praying and not just for myself, but for all the other poor folks on this forum trying to get clean and sober.)

I've book marked this site on my laptop. I'll be spending lots of time reading here, I'm sure, in the coming weeks/months.

Thanks again for letting me know there's someone out there who cares as much as one can care for someone you don't even know.
lucky you, on xanax, and thanks for warning readers---vs. any benzo or neuroleptic (super-benzo) opiates cause no permanent harm, WD may be hell, but you don't lose your limbic system (chemical lobotomy some 'authorities' say)---and you don't have aYear's taper to WD---followed by continuing WD episodes 'till dead---Sweden allows 8 month's paid hospitalization for long-term benzo users---'Stevie Knicks of Fleetwood Mac' was amazed at months of hospitalization for klonopin vs. a week for opiate addicts---for them it may be over, for her or i---doubtfull---in fact, as a recent Canadian study showed, serendipitously, opiates may be the benzo detox method of choice---thank you for stern warnings on xanax (librium, valium, klonopin, ativan, etc.) These common drugs really do make opiate WD look like a cakewalk---you don't know, till you're there---so i expect no understanding of greater evils---
Shelley good for glad to hear that you sticking with your detox, congratulations girl!!!! Shelley, please consider adding the zinc/mag supplement to help with the joint pain...many others have reported experiencing great results with it. It takes about a week to build up to maximum potential, but most report feeling a difference within a day or two of taking it. Just make sure that you take it ONLY after eating food; or, it WILL make you sick. My heart goes out to Shelley, you are going through soooooooooooo much. May guardian angels stay beneath your wings. Please keep posting your progress/experience/feelings. It will not only help you, but help others as well who are reading and hanging on the ledge as they contemplate their own detox plans/needs. As you know taking that first step is sooooooooooo very scarey...the only thing that can quell those fears for those who come behind us is for us to post on our experiences so they know what to expect and what coping options provided relief. Bless your heart for caring so much about others to reach out at such a difficult time in your life!
Well, I made it through night one. Went to very sleep late and slept later. Still have the aches and pains, but the sun is out so the depression is not as bad as last night. I have stayed in all day and had my secretary screen my calls.

I'm going to have to get out to make a call tonight. A church member died and I have to go visit the funeral home. That'll give me a chance to go shopping for the detox supplies. And I am going to have to perform that service tomorrow, just for today, I'll be OK.

Shelly, hang in there. As we used to say in AA, "One day a time." Jam338, thanks for your encouragement last night. It helped. You've been through so much, it's hard to believe you take your time to help encourage us. You're great and I pray God's great blessings and healing on you.

You are right about one thing especially, this detox from hydro isn't anything like the detox from the benzos. When I was coming off the benzos, I just wanted to die. I didn't sleep for five or six consecutive nights. My nerves were on the edge of every thing. I lost 20 pounds in two weeks. So far, my aches aren't as bad as yesterday, but my body isn't expecting it's supply of hydro until about 8 or 9 this evening. I haven't eaten anything today. Just don't have the stomach for it right now. I am drinking lots of water and letting my goldendoodle pup help keep me distracted.

Need to go shower up to get to the funeral home. Thanks for being here. You help more than words can say.
Calforney, you are quite welcome, hang in there! If you have been through Benzo detox you have been through pure hell. The Hydro detox is a picnic compared to Benzo detox, but it is still a hell of its own. Pick up the OTC options. You will need to experiment with what works for your chemistry. I virtually used everything on the list but the Immodium since I never got the diahhreah. But GreenMM has posted that taking 5-6 Immodium will help with WDs, not just the diahhreah. I have read that tip elsewhere since my own detox so there must be something to it. Hopefully, if Green is reading this thread he can post more on that. Day 2 starts the journey to the middle so I have no idea how you are going to be able to conduct a funeral service. For those who get the runs I am not sure what day they usually kick in so that might be a problem for you..I think I'd for sure start taking the immodium stuff tonight as a preventative. I know you don't feel like eating but you MUST get some nutrients into you...they help with coping w/WDs...if you can't eat, pick up some SlimFast or some Ensure....both are nutritionally balanced liquid formulas....also pick up some Gatorade to get some electrolytes in you...if you experience the runs the replenishment of electrolytes is very important. The Zinc/Mag is very important. Many have reported pretty good result with it, but you can ONLY take it after eating food or it WILL make you sick. You need to try and eat some bananas and build up your potassium level...important to help when you reach the restless legs syndrome. Sleep as much as you can.....hard I know...Benadryl, Nyquil, Tylenol PM, Valerian Root all help. You just need to find the right doseage level that will work for you while in takes increased levels beyond packaging instructions. If at anytime you think you may have an adverse reaction to the dosing level you have selected you can consider taking Benadryl and/or Activated Charcoal (nutritional supplement); I would take both....Benadryl is an anti-histamine for allergic reactions and Activated Charcoal performs like a cleansing sponge to soak up and carry out will turn stool charcoal color.

Many others have been through this and will be here for you through this. I completely understand the need for discrete detox. My profession and high-profile position meant that I could tell no one, not my family, not my doctor, no one. Going to residential or outpatient detox was completely out of the question given my profession. I could not have anything documented anywhere that might impact adversely my career. I will be checking this thread to check on you. Post as often as you need to. Journalling your experience will not only help you but will help others who are reading this thread. And, from the looks of the count, many are.

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