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Ice & Bridget, congratulations on your decisions to detox...it will be tough but y'all can do it!!! You will be good inspiration for each other and many here will help with moral support and encouragement. For WDs please review the SAMPLE HOME DETOX sticky post at the top of the Moderator's sticky posts, main page. Many have been helped to detox with it, including me....I would have never made it without it. During Vicodin and Tramadol detoxes I used many things from the list that helped....during Benzo From Hell Detox I needed everything. Everyone's chemistry is unique---what helps one might not help another, so you just have to try for yourself to see what may work for you. Nothing will eliminate WDs, but you can lessen them to help you cope better. The next 3-4 days will be tough, but by day 4 or 5 you will turn the corner and be in the home stretch. You will still experience post-detox WD things, but nothing like during detox; the OTC coping options in the Home Detox post will help substantially during post-detox phase. Good luck! Read/Post...it will help ya and many are here to help pull ya to the other side. Y'all CAN do it. Good luck to ya both:)
Congrats on your decision and stay with it. I started my detox/wds last Sunday. Just ran out of hyros and decided I was tired of the expense & guilt. I was a relapser. Had been through outpatient detox and "talk therapy" for six weeks. I had come off hydros and benzos. (Benzo wd being the worst). I stayed clean for about 20 months and started using again.

One of your best friends and wise encouragers on this forum will be Jam338. She(?) has a heart for people who want their lives back. Everytime I posted this week, she came back wih encouragement and advice. Listen to her. She knows what she's talking about. Use her OTC suggestions. They don't eliminate the w/d, but they help. It will be hard at first. As Jam says, "like the worst flu you've ever had." Sleep when you can (take off work if you're able), do what you can to keep busy (I watched lots of old DVDs, played my drums, worked crossword puzzles, called old friends "just to chat," ran easy errands to the post office, grocery store, even visited shut-in folks at home suffering from this or that (don't be tempted to cop their meds - a very real temptation for some) but still kept pretty much to myself except this forum).

I'm on day 6 (I was using 5-7 10/325s per evening for 6 months - got up to 10-12 per day at one time and came back down over a couple of weeks). I didn't normally use during the day, just at night to "come down."

But just think about it. In 6-10 days you can start to have your life back. No more spending ungodly amounts of money on pills, worrying if you have enough, no more lying and trying to cover up to family/friends (most of them know, by the way), no more risking your life or the lives of others driving down the highway. More energy. More joy. FREEDOM!!!!

Day 6 - I'm not there yet, but with God's help and the good people of this forum, I'm getting there. THERE ARE ANGELS LURKING AND SEARCHING THIS BOARD FOR PEOPLE TO HELP. YOU'VE ALREADY MET Jam338. There are many others.

Keep posting. If you get weak, reach for your computer and log on. An answer won't be long in coming. If it's a late night and not many are logged on, read the old posts. They help. Daytime, take long walks. If you live in a winter time sunshine state, soak up the rays. Find whatever is a good distraction for you.

Again, sleep when you can. Use the OTC stuff listed above. Drink lots of fluids (in my case, I went through 4 cases of club soda...just seemed to help me.) Mild soups and broths were good. (I DIDN'T DREAM THIS STUFF UP MYSELF, JAM338 AND OTHER POSTERS HAD THESE SUGGESTIONS ALL OVER THE BOARDS.)

Remember the immortal words of Rob Scheider in Adam Sandler's movie, "The Waterboy": "YOU CAN DO EEEET!!" (One of the DVD's I watched during my wds.

Keep posting here and ask, ask, ask, for advice and the help you think you need.

Mr. Day 6...a looking forward to still counting.

GOD BLESS YOU JAM338...STILL WORKING, I SEE
....awwww thanks Calforney, very sweet of ya, but the credit for your detox is all YOURS....you did all the work...I was just there for words of encouragement....glad it helped. It is just my way of giving back is all. I made a promise to the Lord that if he got me through my own situation that I would reach back and help others if I could. The problem is that land on boards, help a few, and then start having nightmares at some point. My mother nearly died from Valium detox when I was 19. I had gone home for a 2 week visit and fortunately something, God I guess, woke me up in the middle of the to find her after she had just had a grand mall seizure from it. When those nightmares start I disappear. Anyway, I am just sooooooooo happy for you that you are doing so well!!! Your post will be an inspiration to others reading and wondering if they can really do home detox. They can!!!! Hard to believe that in just 6 days how different the world can start to look isn't it? You are a very strong willed man to have stayed working through your detox. I still don't know how you managed to conduct a funeral service and meet all your responsibilities as a pastor...you surely had some help from upstairs on that one. Maybe God just sent me here for a reason cuz I haven't been on any boards for a very long time. Sometimes the thing that means the most during detox, especially discrete detoxes, is just having someone to talk to. I could relate to that in your situation because, like you because of my work, I could tell no one. I am just glad our paths crossed where I could help you. Best wishes, stay strong....remember all that you have been through....it has been through the fires of hell, but God gave you that experience for a reason.......do good with it. And, have a great weekend when you go home next weekend ....drugfree!!!! CONGRATULATIONS:)
Hi Bridget, hang on sweetie...it is gonna get rough waters ahead, but you WILL be okay. Bridg, you are at Day1...the drugs will leave your system between 8-16 hours after the last pill(s) you took. The peak of WDs will usually begin at Day 2 and last through Day 3 or 4. Sleep as much as you can, but it is unlikely that you will be able to sleep much....HOT baths...as HOT as you can stand it....it is temporary, but it will help. Read and post. Review the Home Detox sticky post at the top of the Moderator's posts. As you progress through detox phases post what you are experiencing/feeling so others can help you through it with suggestions or words of support/encouragement. You are not alone, and you will be okay. Read as much as you can on this Board. Posts from others who have been through what you are experiencing will help you to know you can do it and you will be okay. There are others who have very recently successfully detoxed who are still posting---Calforney, GSX, and others. I'll check back later to look in on you.
ICEHOUSE/BRIDGETMARK:
Don't get down. The first time I tried to self detox from benzo's almost two years ago, I went about six weeks and then jumped down in the hole again...a much deeper hole. I started using like crazy...driving very heavily influenced...no one could tell me I wasn't sober...no one could tell me anything. Everyone knew I was addicted but me.

The thing I discovered with coming off the hydro's is that when the euphoria, that wonderful sense of well-being and that all's right with the worldfelling, and problems fade away...when all that went away...and the anxiety started...then the body aches and flu-like symptoms...the cravings kicked in and I wanted to make all that discomfort go away...so I reached for the pills. My problem (advantage) is that I had no pills to reach for. I was out. Nothing. No where to get more for days. So I decided to go c/t.

That's when I found this site. I started following the OTC remedies for home detox that are posted elsewhere on this board. I'm not going to lie to you and say that they're magic, but they do help to certain degrees...I guess depending on your level of dependence. But they help!!!

I started last Sunday night...took my last 3 10/325's...and then nothing for six days. I cried. I didn't sleep. My whole body ached. My head ached. If there had been people around, they wouldn't have stayed for long. The next day, I'm sorry to say was worse. I felt like going to the hospital and checking in witht the flu, but I knew they'd check my blood and I'd wind up in in-patient detox. The next day was about the same. But then I started feeling better. Not good, just better. I ate a little bit (soup and yogurt, stuff like that). Then I started walking around the house, in circles. I have a dog, so I had to take her outside every once in a while to do her business. I guess, it helped some to have to take care of her needs. I kept drinking lots of club soda (my drink of choice) - like 4 cases in a week. I watched a store-load of DVDs.

I called in sick as many days as I could with the flu going around. No one questioned my illness because I lost my voice and sounded sick. The next day was better...not great, just better. I've heard, depending on how many tabs you use a day and for how long that days 2-4 or 3-5 can be the worst. For me it was days 2, 3, & 4, then I started to feel some better.

I'm telling you, its' been a long week. Posting every night, sometimes a couple of times a day has helped because somebody always responded with encouragement. I've done the NA/AA thing and wouldn't knock it for the world. They have worked miracles. But for me, this Board has been my NA.

It's late day 6 and I feel like I used to feel after high school football practice after the first day in full pads. I'm sore, worn out, achey, but not miserable. I ache, but I'm not sick like with the flu.

I'm going to work tomorrow, and I know it'll be a long day...hard in a lot of ways. But it's day 7 and every day after will be better.

Icehouse...give it another try. Try not to to give up when you feel like Hell. IT WILL GET BETTER. BUT DETOX AND WD IS NOT MICROWAVE COOKING, IT IS CROCKPOT SLOW. BridgetMark, you hang with it too. It only takes a week or so to feel good again...without the drugs. And in the immortal words of my new best e-friend, YOU GET LIFE BACK DRUG FREE. That's a pretty good gift to give yourself.

Think about it this way: People like me who are 40 pounds overweight have months of sweat and work to well get well from being overweight. You can have what you want and be clean in a week or so. We're here for you.
Bridget, I know it is rough honey....hang on....the next couple of days are going to be tough, but you WILL make it through it...just when you think it is at its worst and you can't take any more with thoughts of aborting it will turn the corner and get better....you just HAVE to hang in there.....your kids, your dad, and your husband are counting on you to reach the other side of this thing ....they deserve it ...and YOU deserve it. In just 5-6 days total your life is going to be sooooooooo different. You are going to love life again and want to do things that you used to enjoy doing and be enthusiastic about finding new things to enjoy....you will be able to wake up in the morning and NOT have your first thought to be about taking pills....no more being chained to a pillbottle...you have to wretch YOUR life back from the drug demon that has taken up residence in YOUR body. Get mad and fight it....if someone was about to abduct one of your children to harm them wouldn't you get mad and fight??? This is no different ....your children are being hurt by the drug demon that has abducted their mother...only you can do something about that....you HAVE to find the strength within you .....you CAN do this....you WILL do this...you HAVE to.....for your kids. I know you feel awful and what you are going through is horrible...been there myself....but it does get better I promise you.

If you feel up to it, post your symptoms as you are progressing through the phases of WDs so those of us supporting you through can help you with options that might help. While everyone's chemistry is unique and what works for one might not for another, there are key phases through opiate WDs that most, not all, go through. Most people get diarrhea; I never did, not once. So, you just have to sort through what others say and try to reason out what makes sense for your own symptoms and you may need to experiment with the coping options. If you have not yet read it, you may want to read SAMPLE HOME DETOX post which can be found in the Moderator's section of "sticky posts" on this Board. Keep up the fight....I'll check back in a bit here to check on you.

Ice, I hope you are still reading....everything I said is for you as well.

Y'all CAN do this!!!!!
Bridget, if there is anyone who can help w/the kids, please consider asking them. You can just say you have a bad flu and need help for a couple of days or so. The things that will help you the most, HOT baths and sleep, are going to be hard to do with having to simultaneous care for little ones.

Make sure you stay on your anti-depressants. The vitamin supplements do help many people. They helped me tremendously and is how I developed the list by trial. What works for one might not for another so you just have to experiment with items and amounts. But, make sure that you don't take anything on the list footnoted not to if you are on an SSRI RX antidepressant. You can take the zinc/magnesium and that will help with aches and depression; but, take it only after you have eaten or it will make you sick; 50-75 mg x3 daily AFTER food. Obviously, HOT baths, electric blanket or heating pad for chills/aches as well. Even though things may seem obvious we will be restating things to you because during the worst of WDs it is hard to think straight, or it was for me anyway. Very important to keep yourself hydrated...drink lots of water...gatorade if you have it as it has electrolytes in it that will help replinish your system. If you are too nauseaous to eat food, you need liquid meals..either Slim-Fast or Ensure....both are nutrionally balanced. You will need to start eat bananas in preparation of the legs phase; it will help to calm restless legs....but get through one phase at a time....hard to look ahead right now unless you have shopped and prepared from the Sample Home Detox list...will just have to work as best you can with what you have in the house unless someone can shop for you. Do the muscle tightening and breathing exercises outlined in the Sample Home Detox thread....it will help with stress/relaxation/ and getting your endorphins organized and working. Walk around the house as much as you can....when you feel ready to climb the wall and just don't know what else to do ....HOT bath....its hard to do hot baths with lil ones around to care for so an alternative is fill cotton socks with rice, tie ends, microwave 2 min (monitor time based on your microwave wattage as time could vary vastly ....test heat of rice sock BEFORE using it) place rice socks on your achey joints...remember to put one on your neck and your spine at the low back point (will help nerves as well as pain) ....also, it will help with chills if you place a blanket over you to hold the heat in.

It is very tough I know and you just feel like s**t right now in so many different ways.....but remember...."this too shall pass in time"....it is ONLY temporary....just look at Calforney....[::::waving:::: to Calforney]...Bridget, can you believe that 6 days ago he was right where you are today???? By next weekend, you will be here like him...typing encouragement to others to hang on and helping them through. Prayers are with you honey. We are all pulling for both you and Ice.
[QUOTE=Sarandipity]Jam and Bridgett, I need you guys in the biggest way ever. If you have a chance- read my thread, "relapsed on opiates and ambien" I would really appreciate any feedback you both would have. I am going to do outpatient suboxone treatment to do a slow taper so I can work. Im the only income.
Sara[/QUOTE]

Hi Sara, glad to read that you are evaluating your situation and making a detox plan that is right for your needs. Regarding suboxone, I have no personal experience with it, and unfortunately in my opinion I basically failed with the taper approach.

Personally, I failed at my first couple of detox attempts:

[B]First Attempt: [/B] I had a kinda half-assed wobbly taper thing going but for the most part it was only a forced taper to stretch rx til refill time. Finally, the cycle got to me...intense anger, shame, guilt, self-loathing....got really mad at myself and said that's it at the end one month and jumped off the cycle into CT. Once I got mad ...and I mean really mad...that decision strangely came more easily than I would have thought possible. The failure came from the fact that I was not prepared for what to expect or how to cope with it. I had not researched a thing...just got mad and quit CT. WDs set in, my FEARS gained traction and took over....whoaaaaaaaaa the lil drug demon inside me said maybe ya wanna rethink this one princess.

[B]Second Attempt:[/B] Talked with my doctor about wanting to try taper, he half-heartedly blurted out a 5 second half-assed try this approach on his way out the door (4-6 daily down to 0 in less than a week...yeah like that is gonna work right). Anyway, I did try it; and, it goes without saying failed. I then knew I was in serious trouble. Up until then I always thought (1) if it could really hurt you they wouldn't prescribe it (2) ok, if I happen to be one of the ones who develops dependency then they will help me get off .

By this time I was sweaty palm almost panic attack scared. I didn't really know s**t about this stuff, and the guy I thought did, my doctor, seemed to either not know or just didn't give a damn...either way I knew I was SERIOUS trouble---and that I had no one but ME to sort it out.

I am well educated and reasonably intelligent with at least half a brain and knew I had to put all that to work for ME. So, I started researching endless hours online to learn as much as I could. I allowed myself to get in this damn mess, and I was going to have to figure out how to get ME out of it with a Home Detox Plan. The plan I followed is in the Moderator's Sticky Post Section, [B]Sample Home Detox.[/B] What works for one may not for another so you just have to evaluate and experiment among the things listed to find what combinations, if any, may work for your chemistry.

Sara, there are some great folks on this Board, and I have no doubt that you will have all our support and encouragement. Folks who have been successful with tapers or know about the suboxone will be a great value to you since that is your chosen detox, but all of us will be pulling for ya hon!!!:)
Bridg, Oandes.....it is just so wonderful that y'all are reaching out to each other with support. Maybe it might be good to get a thread going for young mom support...something like YoungMomHelp??? It would give new gals a special place to quickly find each other for common support needs rather than feeling lost wandering around from thread to thread trying to find someone who is going through what they are with home and hydro detox challenges...just an idea. So glad y'all are finding each other in whatever way it works:)
Bridget:
The mental stuff. I don't know if I'd call it the next step/obstacle, but it is a hurdle. I think a part of what makes the mental something you need to over come is how easy it was, once you took the pills to feel that everything is OK. "Not enough money to pay the light bill?" No problem. "Co-worker trying to screw you over on the job?" Take a pill, no worries. "Anxious about....whatever" A couple or three hydros later, who the heck cares.

When you come off the euphoria of the pills, then you really have to deal with all that stuff and it's not easy to make it all go away just by "not thinking about it." Now we have to deal with real life. Now we have to face the "Sweet Old Boy" who's always on my rear about something.

I think Jam is right. Therapy helps. I saw a good, psych - a man of faith - who prescribed meds only when he really thought it necessary. I was a patient for six months of "talk therapy" before we MUTUALLY decided that an antidepressent wasn't a bad thing to try. It worked after adjusting the dose over a brief time.

I also I had a big problem that went along with my restless legs syndrome that helped me into my first addiction: Anxiety...which greatly contributed to the addiction of my drug of first choice back then ...benzodiazepenes: restorill, halcion valium, ativan, klonipin, librium, xanax...all those medicines from hell. That was my first detox. "Tranquilizers, sleeping pills, stress meds," they're called. Yeah, they calm. Use them and feel good for a length of time, then try the wds from those. I quit those c/t and I did not sleep at all...literally for nine days coming off benzos.

There are other meds, non-addictive meds, with mild side effects of anti-anxiety. I take one used to treat epilepsy that has a side effect in that it mildly helps with the panic attacks and anxiety.

I WOULD NOT NOW TAKE ANY MEDICINE FROM ANY DOCTOR EVER WITHOUT FIRST THOROUGHLY RESEARCHING ALL EFFECTS AND SIDE EFFECTS IN PDR'S, ON THE INTERNET, TRUSTED DOCTORS, AND FORMER ADDICTS. That's partly how I wound up deep in benzo hell. I figured, "He's the doctor." With patient loads today, you can't assume your doc is on top of your health. You have to take charge yourself.

Another biggie that Jam has mentioned on at least of couple of occasions is exercise which makes your body produce it's own kind of natural feel good "drug," endorphins. You can't underestimate the value of what your body can do for itself. Get in a good workout regularly and your body will stop sending signals to your brain, "Boy, I sure could use a pill right now." Your body will take care of that need itself by making those endorphins when you regularly exercise. I PROMISE.

Every addict has issues and reasons we turn to drugs once the pain is gone. Usually it's to escape some kind of mental, psychological, or emotiona pain. Believe me, taking a pill is heck of a lot easier than 30 minutes on a stairmaster. But look what you buy yourself with the convenience of pill taking.

Figure out what else may be hurting besides the pain in your body and maybe the mental cravings will diminish as well.

I'm no expert. I do know that long after I recovered from the pain of my blown calf muscle a few months back that led the doc to presribe the hydro,
I found "rationalized" mental reasons why it was OK for me to still use. "It helped me sleep. It helps my restless legs. It helps the lonliness I feel coming home to an empty house every night."

An addict doesn't need much of a mental excuse to use. We need to remember the pain that using causes. The only hydro I will ever take over which I have any control is the first one. Say no to the first one every time and you'll not get on the slippery slope of addiction again. The only pill I might take that I have any control over is the first one

Sorry. That's my sermon for this Tuesday night. You're doing great. Hang in there. Find a good AA/NA group. Even though I am a drug addict, I chose to attend AA meetings in my last town. The NA groups I visited - all good people trying to stay straight and sober - I just found to be a little "rougher" crowd than this preacher was used to being around. The AA group I made my home group - was closed (open only to recovering alcoholics & addicts - no visitors/non-users), non-smoking, met in a church, and was just a better fit for me. If you start looking for a group, visit serveral. There's one out there that fits everyone.

Good luck Bridget, Ice, and all you other newbies like me. Hang in there and work your program.

"You can dooo eeeet!"
[QUOTE=Sarandipity]Can I take meds to help me sleep during the first days of detox? Or is that just completely out of the question. (Comm on, Im waiting for the right answer.) [/QUOTE]

Hi Sara, there is no doubt that sleeping as much as you can is best during the first 2-3 days. The Thomas Detox Recipe (internet Message Boards around 2001) recommends using high levels of benzodiazepines (BZDs) to induce a sleep state for the first 2-3 days. Personally, I have concerns about that part of the Thomas Detox Recipe because of the high addiction risk history of BZDs, particularly with folks who abuse opiates. According to the American Family Physician Report, April 2001, 80 percent of benzodiazepine abuse has an multi-drug abuse association, with the other drug most commonly being opiates. Is a person likely to become addicted with 2-3 day use, no. According to the report it takes approximately 1-2 months usually, shorter if you have a drug abuse history. So, for someone detoxing from a tolerance dependency status associated with prescribed opiates for pain, there would likely be less risks. However, for a person who is procuring drugs online or through 'other' sources to get high or chase the high.....it is playing with fire to put another euphoric drug in the mix. Only you know which category of risk you are in. There are less risky OTC alternatives....though not as effective.....Nyquil, Tylenol PM, Benadryl, Valerian Root, RobitussinDM, etc.

[B]Im just so sad. I keep wanting to put this whole thing off. But I know its not the right thing to do. [/B]
Fear is a very powerful thing. Fear is very scarey....causes people to hang on the ledge of uncertainty about when to let go....and if they haven't done their preparatory work will scare the hell of ya once WDs commence UNLESS you are prepared about what to expect and what your coping options are. Once you are prepared as things start to happen, rather than feel free you recognize it as something you were to expecting to happen....your body is able to better cope with things that it expects to happen. As an example...getting hit in the stomach out of the blue knocks the wind out of you....but if you know the blow is coming your body prepares for it....it still hurts like hell physically of course, but doesn't knock you mentally off center. Once you have asked enough, learned enough to conquer your fear you will be ready.

[B]jam- talk to me about the stuffed animals. They helped you? [/B]
LOL, ohhhhh about WinnieI and WinnieII. Yes they did. It sounds crazy I know, but it did. The idea for me originated after seeing a piece on Winston Churchill's struggle with depression. He called the depression "The Blackdog" and it somewhat became code among his innercircle where days he was out of sorts with it all he would just say, 'sorry, The Blackdog is visiting me today'. As we all know, Hydro Hell definitely brings depression. So, I bought first bought a handful of those lil pound puppy~beanie baby type dogs---put them all around the house to remind me and make me smile...in the kitchen window, on my makeup table, bathroom counter, computer desk, etc. It was working great for me ....then I was in Big Lots and found these HUGE 3 foot floppy stuffed wrinkle dogs....I bought 2 of em, WinnieI for downstairs and Winnie2 for upstairs....they are my guarddogs against The Blackdog and they keep the drug demon out...every time I see em I smile and know they are on duty working to help me....makes me feel I am not alone....crazy I know, but hey it works for me.....AND, they are that soft furry fleece material making them extremely cuddly so I use em as body pillows to cuddle with to help with my back pain....the Winnies were something I did for me....I thought my hubby would think I am totally nuts...I didn't tell him what they represented to me for some time...I did a discrete detox where no one know....anyway, I did eventually tell him everything.....I was pleasantly surprised to learn he thought it was precious and understood their purpose completely....go figure. Now, during the day sometimes he calls me at home from work and asks me how the Winnies are doing and if he needs to pickup dogfood yet, lol...they have become quite a family giggly-poo which is just what I needed....but only he and I know they are there to keep The Blackdog and the Drug Demon in their place.





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