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Hi everyone!

Wow, what a wonderful surprise to read everyone's posts and concerns. Slippery slope, thank you. I remember you from before and I think you were one of the ones who suggested I try sub. Well, let's see, I got to my appointment early and waited an hour and a half to see the doc. You know how much that stinks anyway but when you're going thru withdrawals and you're waiting for the magic pill to stop the misery it really stinks. Anyway, so after the visit I was ready for the pill and he wrote me a script! He said that the docs that charge $1000 have the pills onsite. Anyway, I'm really glad I chose this doctor. I haven't been to him in a couple of years but he had my MRI results, he was the doc I saw 15 years ago after my car wreck, he wrote me lots of scripts. He knew I was someone who didn't just do pills to get high, that I had pain issues too. So I didn't feel as ashamed. He told me that addiction goes with pain and everyone on pain pills is addicted. He also said that since I have pain issues he wrote the sub script for PAIN not for drug addiction. He even put it in my chart that we are switching my pain meds from hydros to sub. He said it would help with the pain, not as much as hydros but enough to manage. He also said that the cravings I have for hydros are like a bell ringing in my head and on the sub the bell will stop ringing. First it will slow down then it will stop.

So I got my script - he wrote one for 30 pills, 8 mg. He told me to take one, then in 2 hours if I was still feeling withdrawals to take another, in another 2 hours if I needed it, take another. He said if I had to take 4 then do it but he'd never known anyone who needed more than 3. He said to take one in the morning and one at night. Well Dee, I feel like you said. I feel schitzy and nauseous and really out of it- exactly like I took too much hydrocodone. I could hardly eat and felt like I was going to puke. I only took the one pill and tomorrow I am going to break one in half and try to just do 4 mgs. I realize that I'm probably trading one addiction for another so I don't desire to set myself up at a huge dose. I want to take the smallest amount that will work. I told him that I average 15 norcos a day and I go through about 100- 120 each week, norco 10 mgs.

I asked him how long I should stay on it and he said for a year or two probably! I don't know about that but then I thought about how long I've been on pain pills, 5 years, 4 of it at a large habit. How many times I've quit, how many times I've gone thru withdrawals, how many times I've relapsed and failed. I don't know if I'll wind up being on it that long but I just need to break the addiction cycle- the pill seeking, obsessing, etc. etc. at least. He said although I'd feel better within days it would really take a month before I'd feel ok. That's how long it takes to completely get over the hydros and the sub helps your brain receptors make their own seratonin again or something.

No, I didn't mention the suicide. I'm kind of embarrassed I wrote it here. That really was me on the pain pills causing that depression. Me at my lowest. And like I said I would never really do it b/c of my daughter but I've just been so terribly unhappy. You guys know how horrible it is to be in full blown addiction.

Well, I feel pretty jittery and I don't know how I'll sleep. The paperwork said that if you mix sub with xanax, valium or benadryl it can cause death!!! But that's weird b/c on the sub website, when you go to the area for physicians, they say that if patients can't sleep then give them a small script for xanax. Yea, let's give an addict a different drug that's harder to quit. Sheez. Is the corporation that makes suboxone working on a detox drug for benzos? Makes me wonder.

Anyway, the cost of the visit was $180. I told the doc that his receptionist told me $94 so he said I could pay that today and pay the rest when I come in again. It's $94 after that. Oh, if anyone is considering sub make sure you have insurance. He said it was $360 for the sub without it! I have aetna HMO but I might call my doc to get a referral to this guy. I am not sure yet. If I have to go in a lot this is gonna hurt. Anyway, he wanted to see me in a few days but I told him about my work/time off situation and he's going to let me come in in a week.

He said he has about 60 patients on sub and he was just approved about a month ago. He said one guy was a very successful lawyer taking 20 pain pills a day. He did the sub for a day, the next day took half pills, then the next day he threw all the sub out and quit everything for good. He didn't miss a day's work. I think that's a great success story but knowing myself with my history of relapses I am not going to try that.

Sorry this is such a long post. I guess I had a lot to say! I'm not going thru withdrawals now but my mind is racing. The weird thing is the doc told me that if I felt anxious I should take more sub. I am leery about getting too deep in the sub. Since it makes me feel anxious and schitzy I am nervous about taking more before I go to bed.

I am happy that it's not on my permanent record that I'm a drug addict. Thank God. He told me he has two DEA numbers- one for medication he prescribes to addicts and another to prescribe pain pills and he was using the pain pill number for me. The bottle says to take them for pain but the sheet that comes with them says they are for treating opiote dependence.

Well I'm gonna get ready for bed. I wish I had some tylenol pm's b/c I'm scared to take anything stronger. This sub is some serious stuff.

Good night everyone. I won't be able to check the boards til tomorrow night but I really want to hear more about how Dee is doing and what her script was for, and how she feels. I do feel a sense of calm. It was really weird telling a doctor I used to try to manipulate for pills the truth. I thought I was going to break down and cry but I didn't. I appreciate that he didn't treat me like a street junkie at least. The women working the counter all gave me the once over when they realized I was there for sub. Talk about being judged! They were nice but still I felt like I was wearing a scarlet letter.

OK now I'm outta here. Seriously. Thanks everyone for your support. I don't know what I would do without this board and all of you people on it!

Debbie
Wow, thanks for all of the info. And John, please keep posting! I didn't mean to be ugly to you or to Podee. I reread my post and it sounded pretty defensive and rude and I apologize. You were on it 2 years and you are off it now. Sheez, you are the person I need to hear from the most!

Dee and B, thanks so much for telling me it's too much. I had a feeling it was!
You guys, my bottle of 8 mg pills says to take 1 or 2 pills twice a day!
That's up to 32 mg a day!!! Sheez almighty. Today I took a half of a pill this morning and about a quarter at around noon, then another quarter at 5 then prob a third at 7. The last one, once more, was the mistake. I'm all jittery and scattered and stressed and it took over an hour to make dinner and I couldn't eat any of it. I didn't lose my temper though today. I told myself that regardless of my mood swings my sweet little girl doesn't deserve it. I know when I was on hydros I was obviously out of it, but I took them for so many years and for so long I really felt normal. I don't feel normal on these.

I called my doc first thing this morning and they asked me to come in, after I was an hour away at work. I told them I couldn't and left a message for the nurse telling her about the anxiety and aggravation and inability to sleep. I asked her if she could recommend something for the sleep and/or if I need to change my dose. I am worried about the xanax which is why I haven't taken any today. I think it's valium that can be deadly, not xanax, but it's still scary. I did take a couple of soma just now but I have to get to bed soon. Sheez. The doc never called me back! I called at lunch and they were closed for the day. After I got home I checked the home answering machine and they had left me a message. When I clearly gave them my cell phone number in the vm I left them. Their message mentioned coming in. This guy just wants my money and I think he's putting me on such a high dose to get me hooked. The only reason I went to him was b/c he had my medical records from my back probs, he's very close to where I live (5 min away), he's not a regular sub doc so he's a heck of a lot cheaper and doesn't require that I come in every day for the first week then once a week, like most of the docs I called. But still, he is a pill pusher. You should have seen all of the people in his waiting room, filling out their pain agreements. All there to score pills!

Also, when my doc was telling me how to take the sub he told me to keep taking them until I stop feeling nervous and edgy. He said I should wait every 2 hours and take a pill until I felt normal. He acted like taking more would fix that, but I assume that he figured hydrocodone relaxed me and being off of it was making me fidget, like when someone is coming off benzos. It was the opposite to me, they gave me energy. So taking more and more opiate to "take the edge off" doesn't add up at all to me.

This is probably shady on my part but I think I am going to tell him I am taking 2-3 a day and get him to give me a larger script. I'm thinking about changing jobs which means I won't have insurance right away so I won't be able to afford these, plus if I just have them then I won't have to come see him every month for a refill.

As I write this I'm noticing the pill seeking behavior. Part of me is thinking of just blowing this off but I do think it's the dose that's messed up. My eyes have been like pin points and they were never that bad when I was on hydros. I probably took 17 norco 10s a day. I think the correct dose is probably 8 mg but I'll admit that I took another piece of one after work for the energy blast. Which concerns me. You don't really get high off of these but you do when you're taking way too much. I just want to feel normal, not have the crazy mood swings, be able to sleep and breakthru my addiction to pain pills.

The way I see the suboxone is it's like when I quit smoking and used the nicotine patch. I've quit pain pills, but the habit of taking and procuring the pills was such a major part of it that I'm breaking that without going thru the physical withdrawals at the same time. The suboxone, to me, is like the nicotine gum or a patch. It's a bridge to get clean and yes it has some opiate in it but not the level I was taking. Well, sheez- not the kind I was taking. This stuff might be 1 mg sub= 50 mg hydro for all I know. It seems very strong.

Oh my gosh I can't believe it's so late. I have to get up in 6 hours. Thanks for all of your posts. Sorry I just post once late at night and it's a novel. LOL.
Dee, Arg and John- thanks to all of you for letting me know that I'm taking too much. It feels like all of the bad effects of taking too much hydro. Dee, I've been taking prilosec and it seems to help with the nausea. I'm also eating around the clock to keep something in my stomach to keep from feeling sick.

Good night everyone. I'll try to post earlier tomorrow.

deb
Thanks deb for inviting me back, your right, after your post before last, I was concerned that I may be hurting not helping and was gonna withdraw, from this thread. I want you guys to know where I am now, I am on day 7, and I feel almost myself again...so close maybe I am. I am really, really worried about relapse though. Right now im still out here on the deep blue sea, and have no access, but 3 weeks when I go home....??????. I will go to a meeting as fast as I can. I dont mean to hammer the meetings, but seriously, It is so cool to see others like us ( in various stages of their sobriety, and some none) all together and all with a common goal, ridding ourselves of the insanity, adddiction brings with it.
I am really kinda trippin on ya'll dr's especially yours deb, take more til you feel better? whats that all about. I think I already said that mine was just the opposite, he wanted me on less constantly, he fought me on trying to get over the 8 mg a day, he did give in at my insistance, and the reason I did was to stockpile a little like u said...theres that seeking behavior. The next thing is a question, are any of your dr's actually prescribing a benzodiazopine, like xanax, valium, etc? Mine would never, ever do that. He did give me something called trazadone, and it acts just like a benzo, although not one actually I dont believe. My dr. I dont believe would EVER prescribe for me a drug that would be or could be habit forming..like the benzos are. Thanks all of you for listening to me, its been and still is a constant source of inspiration to talk to others battling the same problems.. Podee, youve gotten quiet, whats your take on all this? John





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