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Addiction & Recovery Message Board


Addiction & Recovery Board Index


Hi everyone,

I've been on and off these boards for years. Have been battling hydrocodone addiction for years. I have quit more times than I care to admit, gone cold turkey, made it thru the god-awful withdrawals then started using again. I have some back problems that makes my excuses easier to use. Well I'm so sick of it. I quit cold turkey again a few weeks ago and almost lost my job b/c I don't have anymore sick time. I made an appointment with a sub doctor. It's tomorrow afternoon. I wish they could have seen me in the morning but the doc doesn't come in til the afternoon. I am so depressed. I'm scared. I'm already going thru withdrawals b/c the doc said I had to be off pills for 24 hours. I'm scared about what he's going to charge. I only have $250 and the nurse said he'll charge between $100- $300. I don't want it on my insurance, plus I have HMO so I'd have to go to my doc and get a referral and don't know if it's covered, so I decided to self pay. Still freaked and not sure about how much I'll have to go in, missing more work and possibly losing my job. But I have to get my life back! I have a little girl, I'm a single mom and I'm scared that I'll die if I don't quit. I also know that she deserves better. Plus the pills are making me miserable. I think about suicide a lot and I'm even on antidepressants. I am not going to kill myself, because I have a daughter and I'm all she has, but if I didn't have her I would have offed myself a long time ago. So basically sub is my only chance.

I just wanted to post and let you guys know that I am trying sub. Many of you kind people on the board have suggested that I try sub over the many times I have quit and relapsed. I am all alone in this b/c my family thinks I've been off of pain pills since I fessed up that I was taking 30 norcos a day and went cold turkey. My mom helped out with my daughter and I got clean for a few weeks, a little over a year ago. I quit on Jan. 1 of this year and quit smoking cigarettes too. Miraculously I haven't had a cigarette but I only made it about 10 days w/out the pain pills.

Anyway I told my boss I had to work from home tomorrow so I can sneak off to go to the doctor. I just hope I can function in the morning and I hope the doctor is nice. I've seen him before to get pain pills from actually and I really don't respect the guy much. It's been a couple of years since I've seen him for hydros so I don't know if he would remember me. Prob. has me on file. He's kind of a Dr. feel good. He made me get an MRI before he would continue to give me pain pills but several of my friends have seen him just for pain pills. He just started doing the sub thing and that's one of the reasons I am seeing him. All of the other sub docs I called said I'd have to come in every day at first, then once a week. This guy only has one sub patient and the nurse said he came in 3 weeks after his first visit so I'm hoping I'll get my meds and I won't have constant doctor visits taking up my life.

I really need help. I know some of you will look down on me for doing sub since it's not being totally clean. I don't care. I need to get off of pain pills and stay off of them forever and I think sub is my last chance. Fingers crossed! I think sub will help because it keeps you from withdrawals so you can keep functioning (ie keep your job!) but it is also supposed to keep you from having mental cravings which get me every time. I don't know how long I'm supposed to stay on it, curious at what he'll say. One of my friends (someone very kind I met off of this board, and the only person who knows about all of this) said that I'm trading one horrible addiction for a worse one but I am very desperate and can't quit on my own, can't take off and go into rehab so I hope and pray that sub will work! I've been going to church again and really begging for God to help me in all of this as well. Thanks for your support.

Debbie
Hi everyone!

Wow, what a wonderful surprise to read everyone's posts and concerns. Slippery slope, thank you. I remember you from before and I think you were one of the ones who suggested I try sub. Well, let's see, I got to my appointment early and waited an hour and a half to see the doc. You know how much that stinks anyway but when you're going thru withdrawals and you're waiting for the magic pill to stop the misery it really stinks. Anyway, so after the visit I was ready for the pill and he wrote me a script! He said that the docs that charge $1000 have the pills onsite. Anyway, I'm really glad I chose this doctor. I haven't been to him in a couple of years but he had my MRI results, he was the doc I saw 15 years ago after my car wreck, he wrote me lots of scripts. He knew I was someone who didn't just do pills to get high, that I had pain issues too. So I didn't feel as ashamed. He told me that addiction goes with pain and everyone on pain pills is addicted. He also said that since I have pain issues he wrote the sub script for PAIN not for drug addiction. He even put it in my chart that we are switching my pain meds from hydros to sub. He said it would help with the pain, not as much as hydros but enough to manage. He also said that the cravings I have for hydros are like a bell ringing in my head and on the sub the bell will stop ringing. First it will slow down then it will stop.

So I got my script - he wrote one for 30 pills, 8 mg. He told me to take one, then in 2 hours if I was still feeling withdrawals to take another, in another 2 hours if I needed it, take another. He said if I had to take 4 then do it but he'd never known anyone who needed more than 3. He said to take one in the morning and one at night. Well Dee, I feel like you said. I feel schitzy and nauseous and really out of it- exactly like I took too much hydrocodone. I could hardly eat and felt like I was going to puke. I only took the one pill and tomorrow I am going to break one in half and try to just do 4 mgs. I realize that I'm probably trading one addiction for another so I don't desire to set myself up at a huge dose. I want to take the smallest amount that will work. I told him that I average 15 norcos a day and I go through about 100- 120 each week, norco 10 mgs.

I asked him how long I should stay on it and he said for a year or two probably! I don't know about that but then I thought about how long I've been on pain pills, 5 years, 4 of it at a large habit. How many times I've quit, how many times I've gone thru withdrawals, how many times I've relapsed and failed. I don't know if I'll wind up being on it that long but I just need to break the addiction cycle- the pill seeking, obsessing, etc. etc. at least. He said although I'd feel better within days it would really take a month before I'd feel ok. That's how long it takes to completely get over the hydros and the sub helps your brain receptors make their own seratonin again or something.

No, I didn't mention the suicide. I'm kind of embarrassed I wrote it here. That really was me on the pain pills causing that depression. Me at my lowest. And like I said I would never really do it b/c of my daughter but I've just been so terribly unhappy. You guys know how horrible it is to be in full blown addiction.

Well, I feel pretty jittery and I don't know how I'll sleep. The paperwork said that if you mix sub with xanax, valium or benadryl it can cause death!!! But that's weird b/c on the sub website, when you go to the area for physicians, they say that if patients can't sleep then give them a small script for xanax. Yea, let's give an addict a different drug that's harder to quit. Sheez. Is the corporation that makes suboxone working on a detox drug for benzos? Makes me wonder.

Anyway, the cost of the visit was $180. I told the doc that his receptionist told me $94 so he said I could pay that today and pay the rest when I come in again. It's $94 after that. Oh, if anyone is considering sub make sure you have insurance. He said it was $360 for the sub without it! I have aetna HMO but I might call my doc to get a referral to this guy. I am not sure yet. If I have to go in a lot this is gonna hurt. Anyway, he wanted to see me in a few days but I told him about my work/time off situation and he's going to let me come in in a week.

He said he has about 60 patients on sub and he was just approved about a month ago. He said one guy was a very successful lawyer taking 20 pain pills a day. He did the sub for a day, the next day took half pills, then the next day he threw all the sub out and quit everything for good. He didn't miss a day's work. I think that's a great success story but knowing myself with my history of relapses I am not going to try that.

Sorry this is such a long post. I guess I had a lot to say! I'm not going thru withdrawals now but my mind is racing. The weird thing is the doc told me that if I felt anxious I should take more sub. I am leery about getting too deep in the sub. Since it makes me feel anxious and schitzy I am nervous about taking more before I go to bed.

I am happy that it's not on my permanent record that I'm a drug addict. Thank God. He told me he has two DEA numbers- one for medication he prescribes to addicts and another to prescribe pain pills and he was using the pain pill number for me. The bottle says to take them for pain but the sheet that comes with them says they are for treating opiote dependence.

Well I'm gonna get ready for bed. I wish I had some tylenol pm's b/c I'm scared to take anything stronger. This sub is some serious stuff.

Good night everyone. I won't be able to check the boards til tomorrow night but I really want to hear more about how Dee is doing and what her script was for, and how she feels. I do feel a sense of calm. It was really weird telling a doctor I used to try to manipulate for pills the truth. I thought I was going to break down and cry but I didn't. I appreciate that he didn't treat me like a street junkie at least. The women working the counter all gave me the once over when they realized I was there for sub. Talk about being judged! They were nice but still I felt like I was wearing a scarlet letter.

OK now I'm outta here. Seriously. Thanks everyone for your support. I don't know what I would do without this board and all of you people on it!

Debbie
Hi guys,


[B][COLOR="Red"]deleted[/COLOR][/B]


I have tried so many things to quit, I turned to sub b/c I kept failing but the one thing that has not failed me is my strong desire and hope to not be addicted to pain pills.

But let me tell you guys, I do NOT LIKE this sub. I have felt anxious and jittery and aggravated all day. It's like speed without the fun happy part of speed. More like eating a box of No Doz, those caffeine pills, or a bunch of mini thins or something. Just agitated and spacy. I've felt a little worried driving like I realize I'm spaced out and I need to be careful. Caught myself being droopy eyed at my desk. I had a client luncheon today and I was so agitated I took a half a xanax. I took a half of a 8 mg sub today when I got up, then the half a xanax. Felt normal for the first time in days. Then I got SLEEPY. BAD. Even went to my car and layed there with my eyes closed for a while. Took another half of a sub. Felt ok. I think where i screwed up was taking another half of a sub on the way home. That's when I fell apart. I was a total B8tch and so damned aggravated that I even smoked a cig, first time in over 3 months! I thought of Tim and I exercised for quite a while .Trying to get this aggression out. I do not like this. No, I'm not feeling like I did in withdrawal (lethargic, depressed, exhausted, mopey, drained, well you all know) but this is not a picnic either.

I realize if my doc was more legit he would have mentioned the 12 step stuff and or therapy. I am going to look into that. Besides not trying the sub, that's something I have not tried when I've quit before so I have to at least try it. I'm so sick of failing. I guess I need to keep my sub dose lower. Maybe being clean for 24 hours before I took it brought my tolerance of opiates down. This doesn't really feel like an opiate. Podee, I know you're gearing up a post to tell me it is an opiate... LOL... just having some fun with you now :-), but it sure as heck doesn't feel like an opiate. Just the bad part, like when you've taken way too many hydros to get an energy blast and all you've gotten was the agitated angry nauseous piece of it.

Sigh. I wish there was a good solution that really fits all. It's scary to hear that John was on sub for 2 years and now that he's off he's craving the pills. Good lord guys, what an evil trick these pills have played on us. What a pit to be in.

I couldn't sleep for crap last night. How did you do Dee? Arg49/B- how long did these awful feelings last you? If I didn't have such a pathetic history of relapsing I might blow these things off. What Tim says is encouraging that using sub short time is a way to get off the pills without withdrawals. That's good. But I'm scared that if I don't stay on it for at least a while (how long that is, I wish I knew) or I'll be back on pain pills. It's not like this is my first time down the block.

I love that everyone has chimed in. I really feel like I have so many people who care about me. Even John and Podee, although you are against it all, I still feel like you care or you wouldn't bother posting. So thanks to everyone for your support.

I am going to just take two half pills tomorrow- one 4 mg morn and 4 mg in the afternoon. This stuff is a lot different and stronger than hydros, it's just weird. I guess the natroxene (sp?) that keeps you from getting high cancels the enjoyment. I wonder if pain pills would have been this miserable if they all had that natroxene stuff. Maybe that's the key to fighting addiciton- if opiates all felt like sub I don't think we would need this board. Well, until it's time to get off of them. (Yes John, I'm listening.) :p

Deb
[QUOTE=dfroman1166;2899829]Wow...can't help but feel totally bashed for mentioning the 12 step! Sorry-I don't know anything about it! I was under the impression that it was a tool to quitting not a place to go after you've already quit.
Maybe I'm being paraniod-but I don't want to be labeled a hypocrite. Can someone explain the program to me so I'm not misunderstood? My ultimate goal here is to quit taking any form of narcotic-period.
I always feel so supported here-would hate to screw that up!
Thank you:angel:
Dee[/QUOTE]

Dee, sorry perhaps I was a little vague on that subject, any good group will embrace you just for showing up and having a desire to be clean. The group will tell stories of problems their dealing with and their sucesses as well. That being said the natural progression is that by seeing these people living TRULY clean lives, you will want what they have. They usually give out key chain tags for different amounts of clean time, The first day you go you will be given the opportunity to get a desire to be clean tag, next would be 30 days clean, 60 days etc. the problem lies here in; It would be a lie to ever go beyond the desire to be clean stage in your on sub, because u truly have not been clean. Also there are steps involved, 1st admitting to your self and another person that you are an addict. thats easy , right? but as someone on sub, how can you progress past that? Dont get me wrong, if your at a good group they'll embrace you with open arms and explain it all to you, they wont be judgemental, but BE HONEST or else your defeating the whole purpose. If your anything like me taking sub and going, you will want what they have but you will know in your heart that your not ready unless you give up the sub, I wasnt ready to and gradually dropped out, I just cant be a hypocrite. Please go , by all means. You NEED to see it is possibe and NA will show u that, from there its up to you........dont expect to hear what you want to hear though, expect to hear some hard truths you need to hear. If you choose to go...dont sit in the back and run out the door, stay aroud after
talk to those who share about their sucesses, get a sponsor...its active involvement that really makes that program work, if your like me, I didnt really have any friends left I didnt use with, at very least it is a safe place to meet people with the same problems (some worse some less)but from experience its the only place I ever felt really hopeful of ending the cycle of drugs and **** that my life seemed to focus around, hope this helps. I am always here if you need to talk as well.....I may be blunt, but Ive been there and so have others on this post, sort through and maybe you will find some encouragement....we luv ya. John





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