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Addiction & Recovery Message Board


Addiction & Recovery Board Index


hi Shay,
Suboxone is to treat “addiction”. Addiction is an uncontrollable compulsion to take drugs despite harm. Addiction ruins lives. People favor drugs and drug seeking over family, some rob, and commit other crimes because they can’t stop taking the drug, even if it doesn’t feel good and not to just stop withdrawal, it is an uncontrollable compulsion that eventually consumes their lives. This is dangerous life threatening behavior and requires treatment. That’s “addiction” The goal of addiction treatment is to stop this dangerous all encompassing compulsion before it kills the person.

“Physical dependence” means if a person stops taking the substance they will have withdrawal. People who are addicted to opioids are both physically dependent and addicted, but it’s the addicted part that is bad and ruins lives, the physical dependence part isn’t all that important and is manageable medically.

Suboxone can help put an end to the addictive behavior. Once treatment begins the addictive behavior ends the patient is no longer seeking drugs despite harm, no longer favoring drug seeking over family. The patient becomes stable and the compulsion fades. The life-threatening symptoms are gone and the patient is left with the physical dependence part. This does not ruin lives, but is an inconvenience, it is experienced by anyone who needed to take painkillers or sleep aids or some anti depressants for a long period of time. A slow taper off of the medication can allow most people a fairly comfortable transition off.

The main point is there is a difference between “physical dependence” and “addiction” one ruins lives and need treatment and one is manageable normal physiology.

Surely you see the difference between someone risking their lives to obtain heroin and dangerously injecting god knows what into their veins, stealing money to get it, lying to and neglecting their family, loosing their job, spending money they don’t have, suffering with the depression of withdrawal between doses vs. someone who takes an FDA approved medication as directed once a day under a doctor's care, doesn’t require more and more, and is allowed to function normally without cravings and withdrawal. This allows them to work on counseling and all of the other things they need to change in their life so when they end treatment they have the best chance of being able to deal with cravings and other triggers. That’s not trading one addiction for another.

Jake
Hello Snake

Welcome to the Addiction and Recovery Board. It is good to read that you feel ready to begin detox and get on the road to recovery and sober thinking. The buprinorphine in subutex of suboxone is is a semi-synthetic narcotic. Semi-synthetic, natural or whatever, you are going to go through withdrawal. Withdrawal is tough no matter how we look at it or what plan (coldturkey, long taper, quick taper, etc) we decide on as individuals. Initially, the sub was developed to be used very short term as a way to help detox from drugs, particularly opiates. The opiate ingredient in it, the buprinorphine, has long ago been used to help alcoholics through alcohol withdrawal. Along the way, also, sub has begun to be used as a methafdone treatment in that the user remains on a drug to try and gain sober thinking and then go through the process of detox.

However the sub is used, you are going to experience withdrawl. There is just no way around it, Friend. None. The best plan for coming off it must be up to [U]you[/U]. Learn what you can here on this board and get back to that addiction specialist who advised you to go on it in the first place and talk with him some more. Here on this board, you will find that some used it for one week only and then came off of it. Others have used it longer and are still on it. Others yet are using it for 'maintainence' the way methadone is used. I can not preach at you about how to use it or how to come off of it. I can only share how I came off opiates (and then benzos) and hope that my experience will help you come to a decisive conclusion about what [U]you[/U] deem is the best plan of action for your recovery. My truth is that detox is big time physical and mental torment, but well worth the price to gain recovery. This is a truth for me because recovery and sober thinking is the valuable goal we seek... our method of detox is just a crummy step on a bigger journey.

I did sloooow, slooooow tapers. It took 8+ months for my detox. However, I must be upfront and tell that a slow taper is just as torturous as a qucik one. It takes huge amounts of discipline and we are in a constant state of withdrawal during the taper. An absolute rule of thumb in any opiate taper is that once we lower a dose, it does [U]not[/U] go up again. We may have to stay at a reduced dose a bit longer at certain points, but if we make the decision to up a dose once lowered, we defeat the whole purpose of an opiate taper. (Benzos are different). I believe in deciding on whether to do a long, slow taper or a quick short one involves an honest, really honest, evaluation of our own strengths and weaknesses. Do we have enough discipline to stick it out with a long taper? Do we have a partner who will hold on to the med and dole it out according to schedule? Are we prone to relapsing if we stretch a taper out? How strong is our committment to honestly and truly stopping all opiate use? Have we done all we can to prepare ourselves for a life without heroin, oxycodone, suboxone? We have to have a 'full disclosure' discussion with ourselves about these things. Jumping into a detox not truly prepared will not get us into recovery and sober thinking, which IS the ultimate goal.

Please read The Sample Home detox which is the very first thread on this board. It is a great aid in suggesting things to use to prepare physically for a detox no matter how we choose to detox. Then read lots and lots of posts here and learn, learn, learn what detox from any opiate is like. Learn the pitfalls, learn the successes. Then ask all the questions you want of all the board members. We can share our combined experiences with you and wlk beside you as you begin your journey.

Whatever plan of action that you choose, know that time will have other dimensions to it along the journey as you embark. Many times it will be time in minutes only. It will graduate eventually to hours and then days. And finally, when we realize we are back in what was once normal time frames again, we can begin to claim our lives once again. My life is reclaimed and restored at this point. Time is normal for me again. I hope the same for you.

Peace
reach
Kuk

I didn't taper from sub! I tapered from oxycodone. However, tapers from opiates all share similarites. The brain needs to heal. Absolutley agree. However, eight months, which is what I took to taper, is not a fast taper! Actually, the opiate taper was about 4-5 months and was follwed by a benzo taper.

I am amazed that you had absolutley no withdrawal symptoms! How very fortunate for you. I am sure many here share my envy. Withdrawal was very hard for me even though on a slow taper. It was a progression of constant withdrawal that became very hard at the end stages. I had both physical symptoms and mental and emotional ones. However, for me, I felt a long, slow taper was the best course. It allowed me to heal physically and additionally allowed me time to become changed in my thinking about use of opiates and benzos fro chronic pain.

I would exchange the whole experience in a heartbeat. While I have learned much through the whole ordeal, I wish the lessons were not ones I had to learn!

I never write on this board as one who has first hand knowledge of sub, only share my opiate withdrawal experience. Sorry if I confused the issue!

Peace out
reach
Hi Michelle

I tapered off oxycodone. I have never been on sub. However, as both contain opiate, perhaps my experience will help you. As the end of the taper approached, I actually taperd down by 1/8ths of a tablet. I was on a 5 mg oxycodone tab, just one a day towards the end. I was able to brak the tab into quarters and then I would smash the quarter with the back od a spoon. Then I would eyeball half of that, wet my finger and just lick my finger followed by a glass of water.

Many on this board, and even my doctor, asked exactly what you did... HOW do you get a portion othat small??? chuckles... I learned the trick many years ago from a wonderful psychiatrist from whom I got my basics in tapering. I have tried the pill splitters, but they do not work so well trying to get an eighth. So I used this method at 7/8ths, 5/8ths. etc.

I don't know what a sub pill looks like. Whatever size it is, just break it down into the smallest potion you can... even if only in half... and then use the 'smash and lick it' method from there. "Smash and lick it" may sound totally unprofessional, but it is the best way I can describe it and it was very successful for me.

Good luck!
reach
[QUOTE=reachout;3099295]Hello Snake

Welcome to the Addiction and Recovery Board. It is good to read that you feel ready to begin detox and get on the road to recovery and sober thinking. The buprinorphine in subutex of suboxone is is a semi-synthetic narcotic. Semi-synthetic, natural or whatever, you are going to go through withdrawal. Withdrawal is tough no matter how we look at it or what plan (coldturkey, long taper, quick taper, etc) we decide on as individuals. Initially, the sub was developed to be used very short term as a way to help detox from drugs, particularly opiates. The opiate ingredient in it, the buprinorphine, has long ago been used to help alcoholics through alcohol withdrawal. Along the way, also, sub has begun to be used as a methafdone treatment in that the user remains on a drug to try and gain sober thinking and then go through the process of detox.

However the sub is used, you are going to experience withdrawl. There is just no way around it, Friend. None. The best plan for coming off it must be up to [U]you[/U]. Learn what you can here on this board and get back to that addiction specialist who advised you to go on it in the first place and talk with him some more. Here on this board, you will find that some used it for one week only and then came off of it. Others have used it longer and are still on it. Others yet are using it for 'maintainence' the way methadone is used. I can not preach at you about how to use it or how to come off of it. I can only share how I came off opiates (and then benzos) and hope that my experience will help you come to a decisive conclusion about what [U]you[/U] deem is the best plan of action for your recovery. My truth is that detox is big time physical and mental torment, but well worth the price to gain recovery. This is a truth for me because recovery and sober thinking is the valuable goal we seek... our method of detox is just a crummy step on a bigger journey.

I did sloooow, slooooow tapers. It took 8+ months for my detox. However, I must be upfront and tell that a slow taper is just as torturous as a qucik one. It takes huge amounts of discipline and we are in a constant state of withdrawal during the taper. An absolute rule of thumb in any opiate taper is that once we lower a dose, it does [U]not[/U] go up again. We may have to stay at a reduced dose a bit longer at certain points, but if we make the decision to up a dose once lowered, we defeat the whole purpose of an opiate taper. (Benzos are different). I believe in deciding on whether to do a long, slow taper or a quick short one involves an honest, really honest, evaluation of our own strengths and weaknesses. Do we have enough discipline to stick it out with a long taper? Do we have a partner who will hold on to the med and dole it out according to schedule? Are we prone to relapsing if we stretch a taper out? How strong is our committment to honestly and truly stopping all opiate use? Have we done all we can to prepare ourselves for a life without heroin, oxycodone, suboxone? We have to have a 'full disclosure' discussion with ourselves about these things. Jumping into a detox not truly prepared will not get us into recovery and sober thinking, which IS the ultimate goal.

Please read The Sample Home detox which is the very first thread on this board. It is a great aid in suggesting things to use to prepare physically for a detox no matter how we choose to detox. Then read lots and lots of posts here and learn, learn, learn what detox from any opiate is like. Learn the pitfalls, learn the successes. Then ask all the questions you want of all the board members. We can share our combined experiences with you and wlk beside you as you begin your journey.

Whatever plan of action that you choose, know that time will have other dimensions to it along the journey as you embark. Many times it will be time in minutes only. It will graduate eventually to hours and then days. And finally, when we realize we are back in what was once normal time frames again, we can begin to claim our lives once again. My life is reclaimed and restored at this point. Time is normal for me again. I hope the same for you.

Peace
reach[/QUOTE]

I was on Xanax for years. Sometimes 30 mg a day. Thats 15 2 mg bars. I stopped cold turkey and didnt have an issue. I also take 24 mg Suboxone everyday. It stops withdrawal and doesnt give me a high at all, Zero buzz. I switched from Methadone and my last dose of 30 mg was 20 hours. I took 8mg a Suboxone and almost died. Much worse than cold turkey x100. They only thing that brought me out of it was more Methadone. After that the Doc gave me Subutex which is much easier in the induction phase.





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