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Hi, Kew!

I'm on suboxone, also; I'v been on it for about a year now, and am just at the very beginning of my taper.

I've met with the same attitudes at times (that as long as you're on sub, you're not in "recovery"). I agree with reachout - whatever works! I used to take comments like that very personally, and I thought I was a complete failure. I wanted to quit so, so badly. I went into rehab, I stopped using/abusing opiates, my head started to clear, and I was beginning to learn some of the skills I hadn't learned while I was using, but for some people, it just wasn't good enough, because I was on sub. If I let that talk continue to get to me, all I'd do was think, "well, some people think I'm not clean, they think I'm not in recovery or serious about quitting, so...why am I doing this? Why not just go back to using?"

Obviously, that kind of self-talk is stupid and self-defeating, and it wasn't "those people" who [I]made[/I] me think like that, it was [I]me[/I], trying to find some excuse to give up and walk backward, back into active addiction. I decided to only listen to myself, and those who were giving me positive support and ideas. It works so much better!!! ;)

I love the way reachout said that our recoveries are very personal experiences. No two people recover in the same way, using the same methods, but I sure wouldn't criticize [I]any[/I] method that is working for someone. I may be biased because I'm being maintained on sub right now, but I'm not using Norco, vics, etc., so to me I've taken a step on the road to recovery, maybe "pre-recovery?" Who knows, as long as it works.

So you numbed out, too, huh? Boy, that seems to be a common thread amongst us opiate users (maybe users of other drugs, too, but my only experience is w/opiates and opiate addicts). I'm on that road, too, learning how to deal with all the feelings and emotions I've been running from for so many years. Heck, sometimes I can't even [I]identify[/I] what a certain emotion is, and they can be overwhelming, but I'm getting through it, as you are.

Keep updating, and my thoughts are with you as we go down this road of [I]recovery[/I]. :)

I was an absolutely clean person until a Dr. put me on Norcos at 33. Little did I know that mix that w/stress and a year or two, that I would be taking 10-15 at a time, depending on what I could afford, and the w/drawls literally did drive me to hang myself. There was only one rehab in my small town, and they wouldn't bother w/certifying for Suboxone. I had to go out of town. It saved my life. Here's the real deal: you cannot expect your brain's normal chemistry to bounce back after years of artificial stimulation. It takes at least a year. Quit letting people put guilt trips on's your body, your business, and you are trying to get better, not self-medicate. You don't have to answer to anyone. Plus, we all heal at different rates, not just physically either. My Dr. sees lots of former opiate addicts, and one girl said that she doesn't know what it is, but just that little 2mg (maintenance) is her safety net...mine too. I went from 8mg, down to 4, then the Dr. wanted to see if I could go off of it. I did, did have a few tiny w/drawls, but if you wean very slowly (down to crumbs), then they're almost nothing. I have back/neck pain from 2 bad wrecks and age, but I know I'm not "addicted". Then my Dr. let me switch to Subutex (no naloxone), but that took 2 or 3 years. I don't feel guilty in the least. Yes, I have a brother who considers me an "addict" (you know the kind that love to throw the past in your face), but I know in my heart there's no comparison. You and I were on the same meds for about the same time, and I am shocked to see all this stigma attached to the drug I fought so hard to finally get in this town. I did 30 days of meetings, then I let it go. I just put it behind me b/c I have the cure now, and it's worked. The thoughts get less and less frequent, truly. Funny I also wake up to panic attacks and just this awful feeling, but I had that before. The worst thing you can do is'll relapse. Give it time. You're human. Just be you, and don't be so hard on yourself! Healing takes time.
"Holding hands across the globe" although none of us really know eachother the battle is the same wherever you are and whatever you do, all we can do is make sure whatever we do, we stay focused, life up untill now has dealt me a good few blows, some my own fault, some outwith my control, all these have made me into someone who finds it hard to trust anyone and have realised thats why in the past i`ve kept myself to myself because if the only person you trust is yourself you can only blame yourself if you end up getting hurt, this unfortunatly can and has led to a very lonely excistance, even recently i`ve found myself coming out of my shell and trusting only once again to be let down and being hurt, this in turn has led me to question my faith in all people which is unfair because not everyone is out to hurt me, but everytime i do get hurt i reset myself to my default setting of not trusting anyone,this is where i`m at at the moment, things get so grey and messed up in my head that a return to the chaos of my using life seem`s more appealing than the torment that life can deal me.
It`s quit confussing sometimes and i end up giving myself a massive headache thinking about it. MUST STAY STRONG even when faced with what seem`s like defeat, life has always had a knack of defeating me or should i say i have a knack of giving in to defeat when faced with it.
It`s all about the eternal struggle between the demons on one shoulder and my angels on the other. But if you never try you`ll never know. Talk to you soon. Take care Kew
[QUOTE=kewood;4313985]Yo my pals, ILB & Iain,
You both are so awesome, like best friends, really. How on earth could the three of us, probably so different in so many ways, be so alike in so many ways and not even know eachother? Well, I believe we do know eachother, intimately. We probably know so much about eachother because deep down we're so much alike with our addictions, emotions, coping skills, senses of humor....I just want to call you both up and go to lunch together! I'm sure we'd have a blast! When I went to in-patient rehab 5 yrs. ago, I found the same thing. The people I was least likely to ever have been friends with in 'real' life, were the people I just loved and felt like I really knew and they knew me. They were and some still are awesome friends of mine. Most of us have relapsed and a few have died. I don't want to go that route.
Thanks to you both for the best advice and the most encouraging statements I could hope to hear. I've really been struggling with either a recurrence of a major depression or simply post acute withdrawal symptoms which for me, manifest mostly in depression & anxiety. I've felt kind of depersonalized or that, what they describe as "derealization", like I'm not really here in reality and I can't seem to connect thoughts or focus on conversations well. I really feel like my brain is in more of a fried state than it was when I was taking drugs....well, I suppose the healing has to start somewhere.
I saw an intense movie last weekend called, "CANDY", it was with Heath Ledger, an Australian film and about two lovers who were heroin addicts. It was a bit of a trigger but a really great flick and I've not been able to stop thinking about it. It was kind of a good reality check as they sure did not live the happy, glam was pretty sad but perhaps you both have seen it? Let me know. I think lots about you both and wish for the best for you and hope you are doing well. Take care my friends!


Heh there check out shutter island with Leo DeCaprio a brilliant film twists this way then that way and just when you think you`ve sussed it all out along comes the ending to mess with your head one of those films you HAVE to watch a few times, well i need to anyway,watch that Heath Ledger in Batman The Dark Knight, now that was some good acting.
Anyway enough of the film review, hope you are well sister, don`t be stressing about yer brain your emotionally defrosting from an emotional iceage this is bound to take time, i know it is for me anyway, lately i`ve been getting emotional over relatively silly things, let me correct myself not relatively silly thing, they are silly things, don`t know if you`s know the X factor program with that Simon Cowel sometimes find myself getting all teary eye`d when you see someone who gets told they are really good at singing starts crying this recently has been enough to set me off with no one else around just sitting in my flat myself, crazy things like that, and then you`ve got the situation`s when not only do i feel it calls to be a wee bit emotional but believe it would help me cope with things and what happens in these situations? not a "bleeping" thing.
Can`t remember if i told you but my girlfriend split up with me well over 2 months ago about the time i finished my detox, and i`ve still not got over it and i`ve told myself that although she hurt me behond words if i could i would go back with her in a nano-second, this thought process confusses me quit alot,:confused: am quit a logical sort`ve guy if something does`nt make sense and i can`t work it out i tend to pay no attention to it, yet i`m giving this thought more time than it probably deserves, can`t help it, don`t take rejection very well, my close friends keep telling me am a good guy, but then why do bad and hurtful things keep happening to me cause this has been a constant thing throughout my life whether with friends or girlfriends, i mean am not trying to say i`m some sort`ve angel cause am nae but i would NEVER purposely hurt anyone and yet some people don`t seem to mind who they walk all over or how they affect someone to get what they want, i guess i should stop trying to understand people who clearly can`t be understood.
It still hurts even after all this time, when your trust is broken like mine has throughout my life it tends to knock my confidense and it has.
These thoughts make it so much easier for me to feel sad, i don`t think i get depressed cause i try not to let it control my life but it does sadden me.
It can be a cruel world [COLOR="Red"][B]sometimes.[/B][/COLOR]
But anyway enough about me, god sometimes i just can`t help myself i start writing and almost forget to stop.
See when you feel yorself starting to get depressed Kewood, can you identify anything in particular that brings it on, if so separate the issue thats bothering you and either meditate on it while doing this try to focus on the solution to the problem rather than the problem itself, i find that this does help me, a nice cosy bath some candle`s and soothing music in the background close your eyes once your in the bath obvisioly otherwise you may hurt yourself breath in and count to 7 in your head then breath out and count to 11 repeat this and imagine yourself tackling the problem or the depression and visualise yourself in your head overcoming it, repeat this on more than one occasion. If a soak in the tub is unavailable then do it while sitting in a room alone or lying in your bed it does`nt really matter where, it may not work all the time but even if it only works some of the time it`s better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick:rolleyes:
Anyway i will have to depart am in the library and i can only get on the computers for a couple of hours a day.
Start college on the 30 of this month this monday bit nervous gonna be one of only a few of oldER genersion, and the crazy thing is i only turned 34yrs young on sunday but am gonna be stuck in a class with a whole heap of fresh faced kids just out of secondary school, doin a years course on social care in the comunity, i guess i should be grateful i can do that it was`nt so long ago i was back in the thick of it regarding my problem, and i am grateful.
Even though we are all so many miles apart remember this [COLOR="red"][B]GOOD FRIENDS AREN`T JUST FOR LIFE GOOD FRIENDS ARE FOREVER.[/B][/COLOR]Take Care. Iain.
[QUOTE=kewood;4314449]Hey Iain,
Thanks a bunch for your reply and the great suggestion about meditating in the tub or elsewhere. I'm going to take you up on that one. sometimes I just let my head wander here and there and don't try to challenge my mind when negative or scary or sad thoughts enter.....I need to be more aware and I think also focusing on the solution rather than the problem will work wonders! Yes, I saw Shutter Island, creepy, and the Dark Knight too. Both very good films.
Now, was your relationship with your gf a healthy and happy one? Why did she end it? Do you think it was for the best that it's over or it sounds like you would like to get back together with her. Is she a good support person for your sobriety? Does she use? So many questions, sorry. I'm just trying to find out if she was a good person in your life for supporting your recovery which is your #1 priority in life right now, right? Breakups are so terribly painful, I hate them. I've been in a long relationship now, 19 yrs and can't imagine it breaking up though sometimes I get caught in wishing for the early days of excitement and passion. Relationships change over time....are you still friends with this woman? Do you have a good set of friends, sober friends that can meet that social need in your life? That's a hard thing to find.
I'm proud of you for taking on the challenge of going back to school at your relatively young age of 34...I'm 10yrs older than you! Nowadays though, lots of "older" folks like us are going back to school. Is it a big university or a smaller school? It might feel a little awkward at first but I bet after a time you will get used to it and in fact probably make a good friend or two! Who knows? You are taking a risk and that's a positive thing. Moving on with your life is good and doing something slightly scary and risky is a challenge and with that comes opportunity. This will be an opportunity to meet new people, learn new things and who knows what new and exciting adventures are ahead of you!? I'm actually a bit jealous of you, going back to school and starting new....I'm not sure if I'd have it in me to take such a huge leap forward so good for you. Thanks, friend for keeping in touch and keep the lookout for those angels!

Thought i`d let you`s know got on great at college enrollment day on thursday start course proper on tuesday 31st Aug.
bumped into someone i met a couple of months ago but never really got to know and felt a connection, but i need to be careful, i`ve a terrible habbit of falling head over heels for somone if i like them but we`ll see.
It`s a pity we`re on other side`s of the planet would love to go for a coffee and talk about all the stuff that makes up life as we know it, but then again this is probably YOUR saving grace cause if we could do that you would then be in the front line to listen to my CRAZYTALK:dizzy:
Maybe one day when they invent a teleporter like the starship enterprise.
Beem me up Scotty, did i mention CRAZYTALK:dizzy: I wish i could be on the other side of the globe away from my head:rolleyes::rolleyes:
no i don`t really mean that well maybe sometimes.
Anyway enough rabbiting on about nothing in particular, have a safe weekend untill we coverse again.:dizzy: this wee picture looks familiar it`s almost like looking in a mirror.
Right am away this time.
This is my second attempt at sending a message lost the first one don`t quit know how think the wee tech gremlins got a hold of it never mind.
Au Revoir:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Glad to hear your college enrollment day went well...yes, take it slow on the relationship front. Good to be friends for awhile first while you are healing from your latest heartbreak, you have good insight. I hear ya, can I send my brain o'er to Scotland for a respite, maybe a few months or so? I can't get out of my damn brain and the thoughts just keep going, going, going.....we just had a tragedy in my small town and a police officer I knew, only 32 years old, was shot to death in the back. So sad....what is life all about, why do these bad things happen to good people? Sometimes I wish it was me who was dead but then I think of all of the good things and wonderful people in my life, you two included!, and think about what a selfish person I am to have those thoughts. Look at this young man who just died in the line of duty and the people that are grieving for him and whose lives will now never be the same. Every day they will have that hole inside because of their loss of a loved one. I can never do that to anyone I love, I just want the pain to go away. Why is psychic pain so awful? I would rather suffer any kind of physical, excruciating, pain than to have this emotional, psychic hell to live in....and for what reason? It just comes up from out of nowhere and attacks, leaving emptiness and a kick in the gut. I best start meditating soon, these negative thoughts and feelings are going to take over if I don't start turning stuff around!
You keep on the good work of going to school and working your recovery! I would love to have a cup of coffee and listen to you rant on and on but for now I'll have to settle for cyber cafe and typing...I'm still listening though. You're a good friend, Iain. Keep on keeping on and I'll be in touch.


Don`t worry yourself about thinking your selfish for thinking those thoughts around dieing i used to think about it all the time it`s part and parcel of the CRAZY life`s we lead, here`s another CRAZY thought why on God`s green earth would ye want to send yer brain over tae me for some respite, now thats some :dizzy:CRAZY TALK:dizzy: as cold as it may seem you must try to keep yer concentration on yourself. The world is a confussing place, and the biggest question of all is WHAT IS IT REALLY ALL ABOUT? When i find myself asking myself this question i answer it by telling myself IT`S ALL ABOUT ME AND MY RECOVERY this may seem cold hearted and maybe it is but i can`t really afford or even manage to worry about anything else.
You`ve probably got a big enough hole in your soul with your own concerns without anyone else`s.
First day at college today (tuesday 31st) went great better than i had thought i and i had actually thought it would be quit good, so it was even better than that,only in 2 & half days a week but it really is going to be good meeting alot of really good people.
So to finish you keep yer thoughts on yersel quine (thats what we from the west coast of Scotland call girls) can`t remember if i told you am originally fae Aberdeen.And we call guy`s LOON`S or in my case LOONEY`S.
Take Care Karen.:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=kewood;4628180]Hello there Kim & Iain,
I'm doing ok these days. My meds and my meditation have helped my depression immensely. I'm still on the 4mg of Subutex and seem to be doing well so I may take the leap downward to 2mg. but not until after the stress of the holidays. I took a short trip back to NY to visit my parents and had a nice time. When I arrived home in Alaska afterwards though, I went into a huge state of anxiety and panic. I have no idea what in the world triggered it, it just took on a life of its own. It was like a severe panic attack but it lasted for almost a week, non stop! I would get short periods of relief but other than that I was in a state of not being able to cope or function much at all. I even ended up going to the ER for chest pains and trouble breathing. They found that one of my heart stress enzymes was high so they kept me in overnight. Turned out my heart was fine it was just this friggin' nasty panic an anxiety that wouldn't give me a break! I talked to my psych doc and he thought maybe my mixture of meds, Cymbalta & Ritalin were too stimulating, even though I'd been doing just fine for the past 4-6 weeks. He said maybe it just caught up with itself so he reduced the cymbalta, gave me some Klonopin for a couple of weeks and we're seeing how that goes. I just feel like I get these unconcious triggers from trauma that's happened in the past, even though I can't identify what it is at the time, then my stress hormones & response goes sky high, it is NOT FUN!! But, today is a better day and I'm just trying to take it day by day for now. Thanks for listening to that novel of sounds like you both are doing well. Great for you Iain that school is almost out for the semester and you're busy and doing well. Kim, I'm glad you've been able to push yourself through those hard times and realize that what you are doing for yourself is the best gift you can give to you. It is hard, this past week I was thinking, "why is it that I felt most stable when I was on opiates all the time?" I just wanted to feel that again but I know it's not reality, it's just numbing all of these feelings that need to get out and keep building up, I'm sure that's why I'm going through all of this now, because those years of drugs just kept stuffing and keeping all of my fears, anxieties and stresses in some dark corner of my mind where they couldn't be accessed. I'm actually working with a guy who does Somatic Experience. Have either of you ever heard of it? Its working with past traumas that are stuck in our bodies and using body awareness and sensation to help release those energies in a slow and safe way. So far we've not done anything too intense, just gotten in touch with how my body feels at different times and when I conciously relax. I'm really excited about it though and think he is a very safe and talented individual.
Well, enough about me. What are you all doing for the holidays? Any travel plans? I know you're going to visit family Iain, how about you, Kim? I hope you two continue to do well and stay happy and healthy. Even though we don't "talk" often, I think of the two of you all of the time and the suggestions you have given me when I'm struggling. It has helped so very much. I truly am thankfull for the two of you this Thanksgiving!! Take care and happy holidays!


Heh Karen how`s life treating ye?:wave:just thought i`d keep in touch cause it`s been a wee while since i wrote last, hopefully ye`ve been managing to deal with any anxiety problems that may have come up since ye got hame fae visiting yer folks in the big orange, i mean apple,:rolleyes:thats what i hope anyway, and do ye know what i`ve got the copyright on crazyness but am quit happy about that because thats what makes us all individuals would`nt ye just hate to be the same as so called normal people, how can anyone truely be sane in an insane world?:dizzy: I have my doubts! I can`t even begin to tell you how cold it is here at the moment like -8 during the day but i guess it`s the time of year. Just incase i don`t get a chance gonna do me a favour and enjoy the festive and break in the new year gently. Your very long distant friend Iain. :wave:Here`s a wee picture of myself so ye can put a face to the crazy comments or if ye really want ye can print it out and pin it on yer dartboard and use it for target practice[ATTACH]432[/ATTACH] Oop`s my mistake![ATTACH]433[/ATTACH] although the similarities between the two pictures is uncanny. Take Care.

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