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Linda,

There were several red flags in your post…but the condition I suspected may have been rare in your area so I needed to find out just how rare …one of the first pieces of information I found was a news story about a man, found on the streets of St Petersburg in June of 2005. This man was engaged in unusual behavior, wearing only wet shorts, and proclaiming he was God. He became agitated/violent/beligerent, had to be pepper sprayed, and subdued. He was not under the influence of alcohol. The man was “Bakered” for observation. Recreational/experimental drug use was ruled out. Prior to this event, this man was young, a University of Florida student with straight A’s, and an excellent athlete…I’m sure if he had been an older man, he would have been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and institutionalized but (because of his age?), the doctors’ looked further and were able to diagnose and treat him for a different condition.

This “case study” suggested that yes, although the condition I suspected was rare, it was recognized in your mom’s area.

[COLOR="Red"]Red Flag Number 1.[/COLOR] Based on my own experience, I always suggest that when there is a change in health that one look for side effects of medication (as some of you so wisely suggested) because doctors fail to do this. I considered that here…but couldn’t get past the fact that your mom went from a healthy women to someone with multiple bacterial infections within months (the uti’s and the stomach infections).

This was of interest because I recently read of a woman who had recurring bladder infections, only to learn that a previously undiagnosed “condtion” was causing those infections. She was told by one doctor that of the patients the doctor treated, 1/3 with recurring bladder issues also had this condition. Now uti’s aren’t the same thing as bladder infections but they are very closely related.

[COLOR="red"]Red Flag Number 2.[/COLOR] I was on predisone for a sore throat a number of years ago and experienced very serious side effects from it. Also, I knew a woman who had to be hospitalized for depression, a side effect of the prednisone...in both cases, the prednisone was a small dose and only taken for 10 days! For those reasons, I pay attention whenever I see literature discussing the dosage/long and short term side effects of presnisone…When I saw the prednisone on the list of meds, I took note! And I looked in the months after she took this med…couldn’t see red flags anymore…there were red banners waving.

The decline in her mom’s occurred RAPIDLY in the months after taking the prednisone.
Prednisone is a steroidal therapy and is often prescribed to reduce inflammation, but in your mom’s case it was (I think) prescribed to destroy the stomach flora, or the bacteria in the stomach. Problem is prednisone can also weaken your immune system, worsen infections or reactivate infections that a patient recently recovered from. But what is significant here, is that patients with a certain “condition” should not be given prednisone because it can seriously impair the immune system, causing it to enourage the “condition” to grow, instead of curing it! I suspect that is what has happened in your mother’s case.

[COLOR="Red"]Red Flag Number 3[/COLOR]. Sticking my neck out here because don’t know when the atenolol was prescribed, but it was prescribed for a high heart rate and the “condition” I have in mind can cause a very high heart rate.

Linda, your mother has presented/is presenting with the following symptoms: urinary tract infections, stomach infections, anxiety attacks, depression, lethargy, speech problems, mood disturbances (anger, acting out), cognitive problems, memory loss, fearful (paranoia), hallucinations, hypersensitivity (suggested by the soft speech), gait problems (suggest bone, joint, and neurological), shaking/trembling (sensitivity to heat/cold and/or neurological), heart problems (thus the atenolol). In other words, the condition she has impacts her urinary system, digestive system, muscle/skeletal system, neurological system and cardiac system. In other words, her condition affects multiple body systems.

Although diagnosed with AD, meds aren’t helping….
Just as a note, although your mom’s diet is/was not good, cereal and cheese are very good sources of vitamin b12…that’s not to say she isn’t deficient, and that a deficiency wouldn’t contribute to her problem, but as far as I know, vb12 doesn’t cause multiple body infections. It is not uncommon for people with b 12 and anemia to have problems with their blood pressure…but the problems are with LOW blood pressure and your mom’s doctors (hopefully) wouldn’t have prescribed a very heavy duty anti-hyperintensive (atenolol) if she was predisposed to those conditions.

Are there any questions/comments/clarifications thus far?

Bethsheba
Linda,

I don't think your mom's problem is due to a vitamin b12 deficiency for several reasons....[I]a healthy person stores several years worth of vitamin b12 in their body (and up until the bacterial infections, you say your mom was healthy!) [/I]so a v B12 is extremely rare (per Mayo Clinic). Also, although your mom's diet was not good, she did eat cereal and cheese, both of which are good sources of vitamin b 12 and most likely an adequate daily supply......a daily supply of vitamin b12 can be obtained in a glass of milk and a cup of raison bran, for instance.

Although a vitamin b12 deficiency could explain your mom's neurolgical symptoms and gait problems, it doesn't explain the bacterial infections, and the fact that her symptoms got rapidly worse several weeks after taking prednisone. And it doesn't explain (correct me if you know otherwise) the continued shaking and trembling that your mother continues to experience.

Multi infarc dementia, a stroke, and alzheimers' disease could account for many of the neurological symptoms...and urinary tract infections can cause depression which in turn can mimic dementia. Multi infarc and a stroke would explain a [I]rapid[/I] deteriation of cognition and mobility, bUT they can be detected [I]conclusively[/I] in testing (and the doctors didn't report seeing this on her tests) ...unlike alzheimers which develops slowly and as far as I know, cannot be diagnosed conclusively in testing.

The only thing I know of that can explain ALL of the symptoms your mother is experiencing are bacterial infections spread by an infected tick, probably lyme disease but there is some controversy in your area as to what kind of tick infections are prevelent, Lyme's or STARI... by the way, that healthy young football player from Florida State U was diagnosed with Lyme's disease so it is in your area.

On a final note, prednisone should NEVER be given to someone with lyme disease because it makes the condition worse...despite being treated for 4 uti's and a stomach infections with antibiotics, it wasn't until after taking prednisone that your mother developed "non stomach" issues and started taking meds for other symptoms.

Only a doctor who specializes in infectious diseases and who is Lyme Literate can diagnose her...but if it were my mother, I would certainly consider consulting with this kind of specialist. I have read that some people see as many as 30 different doctors, in a number of different specialties before getting an accurate diagnosis.

Because lyme infections are fairly common in the urinary system, they can do a Lyme dot assay (done through Igenex labs), which detects the Lyme organism (Borrelia burgdorferi) in the bladder. Keep in mind that there is no one conclusive test for lyme's and that a LLMD sometimes bases diagnosis on symptoms alone.

Good luck, Linda. I wish you and your mother the very best.

Bethsheba
[QUOTE=bethsheba;3764275]Linda,

I don't think your mom's problem is due to a vitamin b12 deficiency for several reasons....[I]a healthy person stores several years worth of vitamin b12 in their body (and up until the bacterial infections, you say your mom was healthy!) [/I]so a v B12 is extremely rare (per Mayo Clinic). Also, although your mom's diet was not good, she did eat cereal and cheese, both of which are good sources of vitamin b 12 and most likely an adequate daily supply......a daily supply of vitamin b12 can be obtained in a glass of milk and a cup of raison bran, for instance.

Although a vitamin b12 deficiency could explain your mom's neurolgical symptoms and gait problems, it doesn't explain the bacterial infections, and the fact that her symptoms got rapidly worse several weeks after taking prednisone. And it doesn't explain (correct me if you know otherwise) the continued shaking and trembling that your mother continues to experience.

Multi infarc dementia, a stroke, and alzheimers' disease could account for many of the neurological symptoms...and urinary tract infections can cause depression which in turn can mimic dementia. Multi infarc and a stroke would explain a [I]rapid[/I] deteriation of cognition and mobility, bUT they can be detected [I]conclusively[/I] in testing (and the doctors didn't report seeing this on her tests) ...unlike alzheimers which develops slowly and as far as I know, cannot be diagnosed conclusively in testing.

The only thing I know of that can explain ALL of the symptoms your mother is experiencing are bacterial infections spread by an infected tick, probably lyme disease but there is some controversy in your area as to what kind of tick infections are prevelent, Lyme's or STARI... by the way, that healthy young football player from Florida State U was diagnosed with Lyme's disease so it is in your area.

On a final note, prednisone should NEVER be given to someone with lyme disease because it makes the condition worse...despite being treated for 4 uti's and a stomach infections with antibiotics, it wasn't until after taking prednisone that your mother developed "non stomach" issues and started taking meds for other symptoms.

Only a doctor who specializes in infectious diseases and who is Lyme Literate can diagnose her...but if it were my mother, I would certainly consider consulting with this kind of specialist. I have read that some people see as many as 30 different doctors, in a number of different specialties before getting an accurate diagnosis.

Because lyme infections are fairly common in the urinary system, they can do a Lyme dot assay (done through Igenex labs), which detects the Lyme organism (Borrelia burgdorferi) in the bladder. Keep in mind that there is no one conclusive test for lyme's and that a LLMD sometimes bases diagnosis on symptoms alone.

Good luck, Linda. I wish you and your mother the very best.

Bethsheba[/QUOTE]

Hi Bethsheba

Firstly let me say you are very welcome here your info is very valuable in the mix and it is grand that you are passionate about making others aware of Lymes well done ......It gets hard when so many things can have the same symptoms......We dont have Lymes here that I am aware of but many present with the symptoms of it so I guess when can exclude it from our list in Australia LOL.........

And i would like to add that it is very kind to do some much work for Lindas mum that is appreciated I am sure...... well done once again........

There is if you dont mind some things I would like to add to your above post re B12 if thats ok?

B12 deficiency is very common it is often misdiagnosed for other things (the some thing as Lymes more common than realized because it goes undiagnosed)

The best source of B12 is sardines (yuk) and meats it is only ever found in animal products like milk It maybe in cereals but they would be fortified not natural..

B12 deficiency cause trembling,shaking, weakness I had them (I was actually a real mess both physically & mentally not to mention emotionally I even had personality changes was a very different person I am return back to my usual ME state)I went through truck load of doctors & every test known to man they even missed my deficiency because it was low normal...

B12 deficiency can cause infections as it affects the immune system some people will come down with everything and anything while they are deficient... not to mention slow wound healing
H-pylori and many other stomach bacterial infections can cause B12 problems(there are a great many reasons why someone can become deficient)The treatment used for the Hpylori only worsens the condition, antibiotics and PPI's.........
B12 deficiency can cause a rapid heart rate for sure as it plays havoc with folate rendering it useless therefore upping homocystiene levels in turn affecting the cardivascular system.....B12 problems wreck havoc on the vascular , nervous system, musculoskeletal, genitourinary, gastrointestinal, immunologic, and blood systems........

One can be low normal with B12 and then have somthing like prolonged H-pylori the start with treatment and it will take your levels down really quickly..... For example mine went from 320-130 in 9 months by then I was having severe memory loss,speech difficulties, severe panic attacks,short of breathe,tachycardia,pallpitations, couldnt find my words and would diagree and really become arguementitive.....plus many more things but they were really hard for my family...

There are all sort s of mdication that interfere with absorption of B12 for example metformin for diabetes and There are also other medicines used zantac for heartburn.....
There are other medications that will mask the deficiency like folate for large blood cells ,diamox for tremors they may treat the symptoms but the deficiency lingers cause more damage and eventually the medication doesnt work any more......

Any one who has an autoimmune disease is more likely to have PA

I think the time line you put together for Linda was amazing thankyou for taking the time to pass on your useful info I will be doing some searching on Lyme...

I hope you have found the info I have posted useful I just thought you might like to know some of this........I have lived with the deficiency for many years howver I dont class myself deficient theses days.......And I look forward to my shots every week

Cheers Bethsheba

keep up your postings

Rainbows End





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