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My Dr suspects either rheumatoid or psoriatic arthritis, I have had no tests to confirm either. I had a negative RF. I don't have a lot of pain other than in my spine and back. Things like sweeping/mopping or standing still really hurt my back, and some mornings I need help getting out of bed. After about 30mins after getting out of bed, I feel better. Other joints are a bit stiff off and on but I have no swelling or redness in any of my joints. I do have psoriasis. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Which if any does it suggest?
Oh, I have no family history of arthritis, if that makes a difference.
[QUOTE=abbygirl2]My Dr suspects either rheumatoid or psoriatic arthritis, I have had no tests to confirm either. I had a negative RF. I don't have a lot of pain other than in my spine and back. Things like sweeping/mopping or standing still really hurt my back, and some mornings I need help getting out of bed. After about 30mins after getting out of bed, I feel better. Other joints are a bit stiff off and on but I have no swelling or redness in any of my joints. I do have psoriasis. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Which if any does it suggest?
Oh, I have no family history of arthritis, if that makes a difference.

To my knowledge there is no definitive test for Psoriatic Arthritis although it is one of the spondylarthropathies (group of spinal arthritides). I was diagnosed with Ankylosing Spondylitis some 12 years ago and a few years later started to develope some Psoriasis. I found out from my research and from my Rheumatologist that with the spondylarthropathies it is not uncommon if you have one you can easily develope another overlapping one. PS is usually diagnosed just from the symptoms and is generally treated as any other spondylarthropathy. I was recently put on Celebrex 200mg BID and it has not only helped my peripheral joint pain some by I noticed that my psoriasis has gotten better.
The only test I am aware of is the blood test for HLA-B27. Ask your Dr. about this test (it is quite expensive). If you are positive, it does not necessarily confirm PA but it means you are much more likely to develope it. Although if you are HLA-B27 negative you could also develope any of the spondylarthropathies. In other words, if you had no symptoms and were HLA-B27(+) you would not necessarily ever develope any of these diseases put your odds would be quite high of doing so. Conversely if you were HLA-B27(-) chances are great that you would never develope disease.
Do a search on all the spondylarthropathies and see if the symptoms of any seem familiar. Spine and back pain are definite symptoms as is the morning stiffness and periphral joint pain (with or without redness and swelling).
Hope this helps, good luck.

I was in my mid thirties when I was first diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis. I had ONE very swollen, (sausage-like) finger and one small (dime-sized raw patch at the base of my scalp). I had a negative RF and an elevated ANA.... On that alone a team of Rhuemies said psoriatic arthritis. I too had gel-joints in the morning when getting out of bed or when I had sat in a chair for a long period of time, to the extent that I felt like I was going to fall or was in a lot of pain. Since that time more joints have become involved including my back, toes and feet..... But, the presence of psoriasis definitely assisted in the diagnosis in the beginning. (Not all people with PA have the psoriasis part though).
Sorry you are going through such troubles. It concerns me to say the least. I have had psoriasis for 17 yrs now, its always been the worst on my scalp and ears. Over the past 10 yrs. little spots have shown up on my elbows, knees and lower back. I was about 17 when I first noticed stiffness and back pain and slowly it has progressed.
One thing I don't understand is, you said that you have pain/stiffness in the backs of your ankles. I have that too but my Dr told me it was Achilles tendonitis. So could it in fact be PA? About a yr ago I noticed the first bump(on my toe joint), which on occassion caused pain. I didn't know what it was, now I am starting to piece all of these things together. I don't seem to have the redness or swelling of joints, sometimes they are a bit stiff. I am concerned about how far this will progress. Does PA cause you to feel fatigued or weak? I have been having trouble with that this past yr and we can not find a reason. :(
I have never taken anything for the pain, and most of the time if I can get out of bed in the morning I will begin to feel better. I get so stiffened up when I sleep that I usually need help getting out of bed. Is that PA too. I also get pain in my upper back. Wow, I am amazed at how this all seems to fit together. Is PA something my GP would know about or should I see a rheum. for a diagnosis.

Sorry about so many questions, I am just trying to figure this all out. Thanks

Yes I am tired constantly. I had achilles tendonitis when I was younger, but I think the pain in the feet and ankles now is associated with PA. I think anywhere you may have had injuries at one time, the PA will affect those areas as well. I was in a car accident 7 yrs ago, and now it feels like all those places that I had soft tissue injuries and now hurting again. Because PA is a clinical diagnosis, you definitely need to see a Rheumatologist or specialist. Your GP may have a hunch what it is but you should see someone else to get bloodwork/ x-rays and an evaluation just to rule out anything else. It seems like a lot of the autoimmune diseases resemble each other. My psoriasis is mainly on my scalp and inside the ears. I have little spots on my face around my eyes. Also on my elbows and spots on sternum, bottom of tailbone and belly button. My knees cleared up over a year ago and only one little spot has come back since. I am taking lots of supplements, as the NSAID's(I took Bextra, Mobic, Aleve,Vioxx )had really hurt my stomach. I am still contemplating taking the DMARD's and biologics are too expensive. It is impossible to go everyday without any pain med., so I have to take motrin once in a while, but I really just try to bear the pain if I can. I don't want to be dealing with ulcers or other issues as well. My dermatologist has me taking an anti-fungal pill for the scalp psoriasis for 1 month to see if it helps as well as using Clobex and tarsum shampoos. You apply to dry scalp then wash. I have tried numerous prescriptions and always end up having more scales and flakes. I try over the counter oils and shampoos, but haven't had any luck yet. DermaSmoothe scalp oil used to work, but I developed a tolerance to it as with everything else.
I have pain in my back-seems to be between shoulder blades or under ribs. When I take a deep breath I can feel it. It takes me several hours to get out of bed in the morning, but once I get up, I can move a little better, so I try to get moving as soon as I can, but the chronic fatigue gets me as well. I try to exercise on the stationary bike or elliptical machines. It hurts my feet and knees at times, but I am hoping it is worth it in the long run. I can't grasp very well, so it is hard to lift weights. I try walking, but that is the hardest for me. Going grocery shopping(which I used to love to do) is a huge struggle. Can't push the cart very well or turn it. I have 2 young girls(3&7), so trying to shop and take care of them is a real workout. I can't have them in the cart cause I can't push it, and I can't chase them around the store, so I am looking forward to my little one gettng a little older, just so I can enjoy getting out with them more. I have tried swimming and it still hurts my joints. I wonder if I am doing something wrong.
My prayers go out to everyone dealing with PA and anything else. I try to think positive and know it could be worse, but gosh, I can't believe so many people can live with this kind of pain every day. I try not to take anything for granted and I am just thankful for my sight. I know I can't just wish this away, but I do belive a little in mind over matter, so I hope that by staying positive and not getting too depressed I will feel a little better in time.
Hi there. So, why do you think it may be psoriatic arthritis? Is that your guess or did your dr. say that. Do you have psoriasis? Not that you absolutely have to with PA, but I was wondering what would make you think it was PA. Do you have pain any place other than the back and down the leg? I have back pain in the mid to upper back, but the main problems for me are the fingers, wrists, feet, ankles, knees sometimes. Bextra may take the edge off. I took it for a while, but I had stomach problems from taking too many pills at the beginning, so I am trying not to take anything if I can. I found that I could take the Bextra for a while and then maybe skip a day. I was taking 20mg. Blood work wouldn't show that you have PA since it is a clinical diagnosis, but it would rule out RA possibly and maybe other types of arthritis. I know how it is with the kids and life in general. It isn't like we can just stop living and not care for our kids, do the daily chores, work, have a relationship, etc... I realize it is important to stay positive even though it is near impossible. i have break downs here and there, but overall, I feel like if I cry about it or feel sorry for myself, it will only make things worse.
I see a Chiro for manipulations which helped my neck, but not the back yet(not sure if it would help the arthritis or not), and I also see him for JMT,which is a bioenergetic treatment(muscle testing). I was open to trying anything besides heavy meds, but I am getting real close to starting meds. I figure, why bother trying to be tough and suck up the pain, when there are other options out there. I really don't want to have liver problems from taking DMARD's or anything else, but I guess with proper care and bloodwork it is worth looking into. I don't know if these types of drugs would help your case, since I am not sure what is going on with your back. What started the back pain? Anyone in your family have arthritis or any other issues? Does your doctor think this was caused BY the pregnancy or did it just trigger it? Do you think it has anything to do with doing gymnastics for so long? I don't know what would cause your current pain, but it seems like there are so many things that would have lead up to it. Juat being active for so long,like tennis players or football palyers having knee problems/shoulder problems.. It just seems like this stuff happens more to people who are athletic.
I try to swim and exercise even when I can barely walk, becauses I do feel better while I am in the moment of working out, but the minute I stop moving, I feel very stiff. Getting out of bed is horrible. I don't even like going TO bed because I can't sleep well because my hands and elbows get so stiff anytime I roll or move, it causes so much pain I can't get back to sleep. I have trazadone to take if I need help sleeping, but with kids, you can't just get knocked out for the night. My kids get up periodically for one reason or another, so I need to be somewhat coherent. Anyway, I hope blood tests give you answers or x-rays, so at least you know what is going on.
Other than the biological drugs, I don't know of any new "miracle drugs" that completely take away the pain. Keep us posted. I wish I could help you.

Oh my gosh! I just read one of your other posts. All of this pain started back in 99, my 7 year old was 2 years old and going to daycare. One day she came home with a fever, then she got progressively better, not really much just a little redness in her face, and a low-grade fever. Thinking it was a virus. Wasen't too worried. THEN... I got deathly ill... like a cold- but w/ a fever, chills, severe joint pain. It went on for weeks. I took off two weeks from work. I went to the emergency room twice. They just gave me shots of pain meds and tested me for Lupus everytime. I remember once my legs hurt so bad. The only way I can decribe it is feeling like childbirth in my legs.

My doctor.. after months of me being sick- finally tested me for human parvovirus, also called 5th disease. I called my daughter's daycare and was wanting to warn them right away that I had this and other kids could have it- (it is mostly spread by small children) anyway the daycare said " yeah, we had an outbreak in January. I couldn't believe they didn't tell me. Anyway-
I read about it and discovered that it can cause Ruemy Arthrtis, and PA.

I feel the best when Im exercising myself. Going to bed it scary. I know I will toss and turn all night and be in pain. Then in the morning I have to get up feeling like I want to die, when I have two precious little girls to get dressed and serve them breakfast, and get them ready for school. Not to mension get myself ready. Im so tired from not sleeping that I lay in bed longer. Then I get up and can't move. It makes me cry it hurts so bad. I need help with the kids while I get help for my pain. Oh btw... My pain is ALL over my back- up to my shoulders- down to my buttocks. It is in my elbows and hands.

Please give me someone enlighening to hand on to! :rolleyes:
Pain feeds vicious cycles... We all need a good night's sleep so that our bodies have time to repair themselves... which is totally impossible when you are in pain. Couple that with the fact that you dread trying to get out of bed in the morning because of the pain. (Been there... )So what you still need to do is determine if your pain and problems are due to some for of arthritis...Check out this info I found and see how much sounds familiar.

Some info on back related to arthritis

Spondylitis. This form of psoriatic arthritis can cause inflammation in your spine as well as stiffness and inflammation in your neck, lower back or sacroiliac joints. Inflammation can also occur where ligaments and tendons attach to your spine. As the disease progresses, movement tends to become increasingly painful and difficult. Psoriatic spondylitis isn't the same as ankylosing spondylitis, another arthritic condition. Ankylosing spondylitis doesn't occur with psoriasis and usually affects the entire spine, whereas psoriatic spondylitis may affect only the neck or low back.

Ankylosing spondylitis (By Mayo Clinic staff )

Ankylosing spondylitis is one of many forms of inflammatory arthritis, the most common of which is rheumatoid arthritis. The condition primarily causes inflammation of the joints between the vertebrae of your spine and the joints between your spine and pelvis (sacroiliac joints). However, ankylosing spondylitis may also affect joints in your arms and legs, tendons and ligaments where they attach to your bones, and the joints in your ribs where they attach to your spine.

As the condition worsens, and the inflammation persists, new bone forms in the healing process. Your vertebrae begin to grow together, forming vertical bony outgrowths (syndesmophytes) and becoming stiff and inflexible. Fusion can also stiffen your rib cage, restricting lung capacity and function.

Ankylosing spondylitis is a chronic condition. However, treatments can decrease your pain and lessen your symptoms. Effective treatment may also help prevent complications and physical deformities. Also called spondylitis or rheumatoid spondylitis previously, ankylosing spondylitis affects about 129 of every 100,000 people in the United States.
*****Clues to Diagnosis
*Gradual onset of back pain and stiffness
*Duration of symptoms longer than three months
*Early morning stiffness which improves with a warm shower or light exercise
*Sometimes the pain is located in other areas of the body such as the buttocks and or the neck
*The pain often causes sleep disturbances

What is important?
A treatment plan includes medications to help reduce the pain and stiffness caused by the AS, this paves the way so that a daily exercise program can be adopted. Some people do not need to take medication, but this is not usually the norm. Good posture techniques are critical, this puts less strain on the body.

Additional aids to improved quality of life
Additional symptom management tools include: heat for stiffness, ice for swelling, hot baths and warm shows, ultrasound or gentle massage therapy, electrical stimulators for pain (TENS or TNS units), and avoiding excess calories and obesity to lessen body weight stress on joints. Much can be done to help.

*****The list of meds recommended range from over the counter NSAIDs, prescription NSAIDs. biologics, DMARDs, TNF-a Inhibitors, Sulfasalazine, Corticosteroids.... jsut to name a few. I think that seeing a rheumy is important for diagnosing your problem. According to the health articles, using an x-ray may not help until the damage is there. During your deliveries, did you have epidurals or spinals?... I know that the chiropractor told me that they can actually do a lot of damage. (I had at least 5) If it is truly an autoimmune inflammatory disease causing all your problems, there is help controlling the disease process beyond just NSAIDs and painpills.

I hope someof this info helps.
After reading as much as I can, I have decided that I probably do have PA. It all fits. Unfortunatley I will probably have to wait months before seeing a rheumy. It really doesn't matter to me which kind of arthritis I have-although I know treatment will be different, that would be the only reason I would continue to push to know exactly what the problem is.

Getting out of bed has been really hard this past week for some reason. Some mornings are ok, then some are really bad. My spine is really sore tonight too. Anyway, just wanted to thank you all for the info you have provided, I have learned a lot. I hope you all feel better
One more thing...Do any of you get tingling and/or burning that you suspect is because of PA? Just trying to link some symptoms.

I got my results back from my xray(lower back) and they were fine, my dr is going to send me for a cat scan. She also suggested a rheumy. I am tired of waiting, this morning I had a particularily hard time getting out of bed and had a horrible sleep last night. Anyway, we aren't done with the testing, so as soon as I know anything I will let you know. Thanks for you input, hope you are doing well.


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