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High & Low Blood Pressure Message Board


High & Low Blood Pressure Board Index


I started taking propranolol for SVT and high blood pressure (borderline)..I have only noticed a couple number difference in both since starting it..does it take awhile (days) to start working or should it work with the first pill?
How very interesting, Beerzoids!

I wonder if you had been on a beta1 blocker prior to starting the beta2 and how did it work (or didn't) for you? The non-selective beta2 blockers don't agree with me but I find a lower dose of beta1 tolerable.

flowergirl
[QUOTE=flowergirl2day;3508871]As you pointed out previously, medications affect us in different ways because no two people have identical physiology, geneological traits and a degree of health problems.[/QUOTE]

Plus... everyone has differences in lifestyles, environment and diets. The combinations of differences are endless.

[QUOTE]My breathing difficulties have greatly improved also. :)[/QUOTE]

You must be doing something right. I'm happy for you. I can just about put up with any of the nasty symptoms of my diseases, but labored or difficult breathing drives me nuts! I hate it! Chest pains? Who cares! Rapid heartbeat? Who cares! Weak heartbeat? Who cares! Hard, thumping heartbeat? Who cares! Fatigue? Who cares! But... breathing difficulties drive me over the wall! :mad:

[QUOTE]I will have to research the terms you mention, labored breathing as opposed to normal breathing. [/QUOTE]

I'll be interested in any goodies that you find!

[QUOTE]I breathe loudly somehow. I wish I could not hear myself and hope that others can't hear me! [/QUOTE]

What kind of noise? Raspy? Wheezing?

[QUOTE]I don't do anything requiring exertion right after eating because it interferes with my stomach and sometimes breathing. I used to go for walks right after dinner and would have to stop shortly after leaving home because I couldn't breathe and was getting pains in the chest and lungs. Being as determined as I was then, I'd stop, rest, go, stop, rest, go as needed during my walks. I like to put myself to a test. I took the "Summit" trail the other evening to see how I'd make out and had to hurry to make it out of the woods before it got dark. Sure enough, I had to stop frequently to catch my breath. :(The terrain is steep. [/QUOTE]

I am not a doctor, but your breathing problems are worrisome. Do you feel that your breathing problems are because you are out of shape? Are you overweight (if you don't mind me asking)? I associate breathing problems with heart problems, especially if they can't be associated with asthma.

[QUOTE]I take most of them in the morning. A CCB, beta blocker, ACE inhibitor, Spironolactone, Hctz, Lipitor, Aspirin, Nexium, Atrovent, Tylenol 3 and my supplements.[/QUOTE]

Wow! That's a lot of medication!

For one thing, if I was you, I would separate the CCB and the Spironolactone by at least three hours! Both of them work on the heart's calcium channel, and I would not be surprised if you weren't having some type of drug interaction between those two drugs.
Hi Beerzoids, :)

thank you for your valuable insight.

There was a time I thought my breathing problems were a side effect of my beta blocker. After I stopped the 800mg of Labetalol, my breathing improved briefly for a couple of weeks and then returned to the way it had been while on that medication.

[QUOTE]What kind of noise? Raspy? Wheezing?[/QUOTE]
It's not a wheezing noise, more like a nasal breathing as I have to take deep breaths to fill the lungs. The noise is from me trying to take in as much air as I can. Sometimes (like right now) it hurts.

[QUOTE]Do you feel that your breathing problems are because you are out of shape? Are you overweight (if you don't mind me asking)? I associate breathing problems with heart problems, especially if they can't be associated with asthma.[/QUOTE]

My breathing problems are not due to being overweight. Prior to starting the therapy I was out of shape (exercise-wise), ate bad foods and breathed normally and quietly. I was in a very good shape several months later when my breathing problems started. Now I have a spare tire and can pinch not one, but two inches. One could certainly say I am overweight, though I look healthy. My stomach is the problem area. I want to lose some of that excess fat this spring and summer. My ex-doctor said walking should be enough.

I'd like to do more than just walk to improve my exercise tolerance. I wonder if my beta blocker is affecting it. Bisoprolol is supposed to enhance and improve exercise tolerance. This increase in exercise tolerance is said to be dose-related. In one study, the participants saw an improvement of 105% on 5mg, 122% on 10mg, 131% on 20mg of Bisoprolol. These numbers represent the final results, so in actual fact the increase in exercise tolerance was 5, 22 and 31%. I am on 5mg. I have a feeling there's going to be a change in my medications very soon.

[QUOTE]For one thing, if I was you, I would not only separate meds by an hour, I would separate the CCB and the Spironolactone by at least three hours! Both of them work on the heart's calcium channel, and I would not be surprised if you weren't having some type of drug interaction between those two drugs.[/QUOTE]

That is a great idea! I never thought of a connection between the CCB and Spiro and their combined effects on the heart. When I was on antibiotics recently, I found that I forgot to take them at work at the time I was supposed to. I forgot to take them, period. Practically every day. So remembering to take the Spiro later in the day would probably pose a problem. I'll give it some thought and try to find a solution. I could take the supplements and Spiro at night with my evening meds. (I hope my stomach would handle that OK in the evenings :eek: ) and see if my daytime BP control is adequate.

P.S. I know that Spiro alone doesn't lower blood pressure very much, hardly at all in lower doses. Do you think that Spironolactone, combined with my evening dose of the CCB and ACE, would reduce my blood pressure too much? It really scares me when that happens at bedtime.

Many thanks once again! :)
flowergirl
[QUOTE=needhealing777;3494984]I started taking propranolol for SVT and high blood pressure (borderline)..I have only noticed a couple number difference in both since starting it..does it take awhile (days) to start working or should it work with the first pill?[/QUOTE]

I am not on Propranolol, but on the Beta Blocker Coreg.

When I first started taking Coreg, it increased my Blood Pressure, so I stopped taking it for two weeks and my blood pressure, almost immediately, went back to normal. Then, I reconsidered, and started taking it again, [U]at double the dose[/U]. Once again the Coreg increased my blood pressure.

It's still a little early to say for sure, but it seems to have taken 10 days before Coreg changed from increasing my blood pressure to lowering my blood pressure back to near where it was before I started taking it. For the first 10 days, my average blood pressure was [COLOR="Red"][B]129/73[/B][/COLOR] based on [U]59[/U] readings. For the past 3 days, [COLOR="Blue"][B]124/73[/B][/COLOR] based on [U]29[/U] readings. I also feel better than I did before I started taking Coreg, including a significant improvement in my energy levels.

From what I've read, it takes 7-14 days to achieve maximum Coreg plasma levels, so it's reasonable that I would be benefiting from the Coreg after 10 days. I am hoping that the current trend towards stabilized Blood Pressure, and improved energy extends into the future.

I wasn't taking Coreg for blood pressure, I was taking it because it is supposed to be a significant aid in the treatment and improvement of Heart Failure. I have to admit that the higher blood pressure caused me some anxiety, since I was concerned that the Coreg, mixed with my CCB and my ACE and my Digoxin, might be causing more harm than good. The normalization of my blood pressure makes me fairly sure that the Coreg is a benefit in the treatment of my Heart Failure, Afib and Autoimmune problems.

Sometimes it pays to have a little patience.:D
Nebivolol, recently approved by the FDA for treating hypertension (Dec.17/07) is the most beta1 selective beta blocker. This usually means reduced side effects. Nebivolol also has nitric oxide vasodilating and antioxidant properties.

Carvedilol (Coreg) is a non-selective beta2 blocker. It causes vasodilation through alpha1 receptor blockade.

In hypertension, the most effective combination of these new generation beta blockers is with a diuretic and a CCB. They do not work nearly as well in reducing blood pressure when combined with ACE inhibitors or ARBs. Such combinations are sometimes used for other purposes. Nebivolol is approved and used for hypertension and heart failure in Europe. A lot of data is available. (SENIORS trial). European heart failure guidelines recommend carvedilol, bisoprolol, nebivolol and XR metoprolol for use in heart failure.

A small study was done with 160 hypertensive CHF patients (class II or III). In this study, both Nebivolol and Carvedilol were used with interesting results. An improvement in an ejection fraction of about 5% was seen at the end of a two year period in each group of people, using either of these two drugs. More studies are needed, but the fact remains that these beta blockers are an effective form of treatment in heart failure, regardless of their selectivity. :)

I'll look for the blood pressure connection tomorrow.

flowergirl
[QUOTE]Depending upon symptoms, I intend to be totally off of this CCB within a week[/QUOTE]

Just be careful, OK? I tried twice and could not do it.

[QUOTE]I am doing very well on the Coreg 9.375 and am well on my way to increase my Coreg, two weeks from now, to 12.5mg Coreg, taken once per day. :bouncing:[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a good plan. I hope it works for you. There should be fewer side effects. Reducing the amount of medication has many advantages.

[QUOTE]I can't believe it! I've been suffering from these stupid, nasty immune system problems for decades. I am finally getting better! :blob_fire
I don't think that most people realize how much of their health problems are made significantly worse from bad diets. Being on the most effective medications (taken on the most effective schedule) AND avoiding the triggers that negatively effect blood pressure, heart failure and immune system disease, are very important, but disease can be greatly improved just through healthy diets, IMHO[/QUOTE]

You must be doing something right! :cool: I believe our medication affects the immune system to a great extent. It causes rashes and other dermatological problems and many other issues that we are left to deal with as best we can. I am so glad you are doing much better now. I agree that the diet is the key to success. But [U]WHICH one[/U]???

I read two books about the immune system last year because I have some issues with that as well. They were both fascinating. The diet (tried and proven effective) to boost the immune system, suggested in one of the books, was only doable under laboratory conditions and heavy supervision. It took months to see the results. The people involved in proving how well the diet worked did not actually have to do any cooking for the duration of the study/experiment. The food was supplied ready to eat. I don't remember what the diet was about - only that I would NEVER stick with it. It was just too...labour intensive, strict or strange. :)

Keep up the good work!
flowergirl
Congratulations! :cool:

[QUOTE]A total turnaround!
Amazing! I finally found, and eliminated, the grand kahuna of my many triggers of high blood pressure, heart rhythm irregularities and immune system over-activators. Wow![/QUOTE]

Would you mind sharing [U]WHAT[/U] it is? I am so excited for you (and more than just a little bit jelous)!!! I hope I don't have to wait 20 years to gain complete control of my blood pressure.

[QUOTE]I'm now off of ALL blood pressure medications. I've been off my CCB for 60 days, my Ace Inhibitor for 66 days and now totally off Coreg for three days. The only medications that I am still taking are .125mg Digoxin, for Atrial Fibrillation and Heart Failure, and 2.5mg Warfarin, to protect against blood clots. Oh....... and my Asthma and Sinus inhalers! (mustn't lie :D)[/QUOTE]

I can't belive you've done it. Even though it's taken you a while....the end result is amazing. Thank you for giving those of us with similar issues hope. Have you ever had to face feeling discouraged and sort of ready to throw in the towel? It's not easy to remain optimistic in terms of dealing with some of these issues, especially when encountering setbacks along the way.
You've come a long, long way, proving to everyone that it can be done. I'd like to see your doctor's face when you tell him you don't need any bp meds. :D

[QUOTE]I am now eating fewer meals, with much, MUCH larger, low glycemic salads. I literally stuff myself with each meal and I love the food, which is around 30% mostly healthy fats, 18% protein and 52% mostly healthy carbs. I am becoming addicted to my Low Glycemic Index diet! I am not gaining any weight, no matter how much I eat of Low Glycemic Foods, and my one hour and two hour and eight hour Postprandial Blood Sugar readings are at healthy levels.[/QUOTE]

Thank your for sharing your strategy for attaining perfect blood pressure without the antihypertensive medication. It is something I am determined to work on in the weeks and months to come. Perseverance and faith can go a long way. :)

[QUOTE]I have long believed that a healthy diet, combined with demanding physical exercise are the greatest two "medications", but I am now becoming a believer in the magic of Glycemic Index & Load! [/QUOTE]

Sounds like a recipe for a good blood pressure control....WOW!!! The only part I am not too crazy about and might have a problem with is the......[U]demanding[/U] exercise. :D

Keep up the good work! Best of luck,

flowergirl
What are immune system over activators? I am so happy for you!!! You certainly deserve your prize. Hard work pays off sometimes.

I would do hard physical exercise if I knew I wouldn't risk damage to my heart given that I am on such a heavy beta blocker load.

Fam
[QUOTE=famnd;3629089]What are immune system over activators?[/QUOTE]

To be specific, immune system over-activators are Autoimmune Triggers. These are many, MANY things that can cause an AutoImmune reaction within our bodies, causing nasty body reactions such as Higher Blood Pressure, Heart Rhythm/Beat irregularities, Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, Headaches, worsening Heart Failure, etc.

High Blood Pressure is, in most cases, an Autoimmune Disease, IMHO, caused, in part, by an unhealthy diet, lack of effective exercise and due to AutoImmune Triggers that are the result of body defects.

I've got body defects, such as a damaged heart and a damaged valve, both of which causes AutoImmune reactions to various triggers.

It has taken me over 20 years, dealing with heart failure and immune system problems, to learn this.

I firmly believe that someone, who is dying of severe heart failure, or any other debilitating AutoImmune Disease, and getting progressively worse, can significantly improve their health through healthy diet, taking the most effective medications and avoiding the AutoImmune Triggers that are making his heart and his condition worse.

Heart Failure patients don't get progressively worse just because their hearts are damaged, they get worse because of their body's autoimmune reactions. Eliminate the AutoImmune "triggers", and the patient WILL get better, much better!

[QUOTE]I am so happy for you!!! You certainly deserve your prize. Hard work pays off sometimes.[/QUOTE]

Twenty Years ago I was told that my heart was damaged and failing. Along with that were the nasty effects of heart failure, such as chest pain, difficult breathing, fatigue, tiredness, oversweating, etc.

It really beats one down when told that by a Cardiologist. You not only feel sick but you lose some hope for your future. It was quite a shock!

Little did I know that I was my own worst enemy. I ate and drank very unhealthy. I did no exercise. I did not know or understand about AutoImmune Triggers. So...... I continued to get worse!

My journey back to good health started by reading about Insulin Resistance, on HealthBoards. I then started a diet targeting Insulin Resistance, and started a thread on Healthboards, back in January 2005, 3 1/2 years ago, to document my progress:

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=242229[/url]

The positive effects on my health, from a very healthy diet, targeting Insulin Resistance, were almost immediate. Whereas, in a lot of other diets, the positive results are slow in coming, with a diet targeting Insulin Resistance, the rewards come quickly.

But..... thank you for your very kind comments! That was very nice of you to say! :wave:

[QUOTE]I would do hard physical exercise if I knew I wouldn't risk damage to my heart given that I am on such a heavy beta blocker load.

Fam[/QUOTE]

I do around 360 lifts, with two ten pounds weights, one in each hand, and 360 steps, per leg, on my stepper, plus two 30 minute power walks, each and every day, right here in my home.

That said, I started out slowly, very slowly. I started out with the power walks, but just a couple of half-lifts, and no steps. I slowly, very slowly increased the exercise as my heart could handle it. With a weakened heart, you sure don't want to make it worse by overworking it.

Anyway..... sorry about rambling on. I posted much more than you asked about. Your complimentary, nice words got me going, so I can blame it on you! :D

Regards, have a great day!
I did some reading about Carvedilol/Coreg.

It does not seem a whole lot different from the drug I was on last year, Labetalol. Coregs' vasodilating properties are secondary to alpha1 blocking activity. Labetalol also has some alpha1 blocking activity, in addition to its non-selective beta blocking activity. In both drugs there's a greater degree of beta adrenergic inhibiting activity than alpha blocking activity. So far so good. :)

Interestingly, at higher doses Carvedilol exerts calcium channel blocking activity. I was [U]really[/U] surprised to hear that! This, of course, made me wonder whether Labetalol could possibly have similar effects on the calcium channels in the heart. If so, it would partly explain my being so ill while on a large dose of this drug. I have also been taking a maximum dose of a calcium channel blocker (since the beginning of my therapy), making any additional generated calcium channel blocking activity unnecessary and udesirable.

Coreg, like any other drug, has its pros and cons. What really got my attention were some of its very common side effects, specifically: increased dyspnea, fluid in the lungs, anemia, upper respiratory infections, shortness of breath, sinus problems, swelling....and it can interfere with kidney function! :( I have been dealing with many of these symptoms and would not want to make things worse for myself. They say that things get worse after starting Coreg before they get better. Has that been your experience?

Anyway, people in a fluid overload state, or those that are symptomatically hypotensive should [U]not[/U] be given this drug. The reason for this is that the beta blockers initially cause negative inotropic and chronotropic effects. The improvements in LV function take time to develop. Coreg does seem to work well in improving both diastolic and systolic LV function. I read some of the results of the clinical trials -Comet, Copernicus, Swedic and Capricorn. Without a doubt, Coreg is an effective drug for treating hypertension and HF. They say it appears to restore calcium homeostasis. This is what is thought to contribute to the diastolic restoration and changes in LV filling pattern. The fact that it has such powerful antioxidant properties doesn't hurt, either! :) I think the calcium angle is fascinating - the fact that the changes in calcium homeostasis result in an increased diastolic calcium concentration. I'll definitely try to learn more about it.

Another beta blocker, Nebivolol, is right up there with Coreg - very effective and much praised. A lot has been written about Nebivolol (Bystolic), Coreg and Labetalol, all of them effective antihypertensives with vasodilating properties. Bystolic sounds especially promising.

flowergirl
[QUOTE=flowergirl2day;3647716]Coreg, like any other drug, has its pros and cons. What really got my attention were some of its very common side effects, specifically: increased dyspnea, fluid in the lungs, anemia, upper respiratory infections, shortness of breath, sinus problems, swelling....and it can interfere with kidney function! :( I have been dealing with many of these symptoms and would not want to make things worse for myself.[/QUOTE]

It is not a big surprise that, when medical science attempts to change the way that our complex immune system operates, not all goes well.

When I increased Coreg, I suffered uncomfortable sinus problems. That is one of the reasons I cut back on the Coreg. The other reason I cut back was because my blood pressure was getting too low.

I have now been on 3.125mg Coreg, only once per day, for 46 days, quit taking Verapamil 75 days ago and quit taking my Ace Inhibitor 81 days ago, and reduced my Digoxin to .125mg 42 days ago, and I couldn't be more pleased with the results. Tomorrow I plan to reduce my Digoxin to only four days per week.

My [U]average[/U] blood pressure for [B]July[/B] has been [COLOR="Blue"]116/71[/COLOR] based on 66 readings and for [U]all of 2008[/U], [COLOR="Blue"]122/72[/COLOR] based on 1740 readings. Plus I'm feeling better than I have in DECADES! It took me many years to solve the complex riddle of what causes high blood pressure. The things that cause high blood pressure are also responsible for many other health problems. High blood pressure is not an independent disease, in most cases, but the direct result of a compromised or unbalanced immune system. [B]Hence, the solution to high blood pressure and many other health problems is to make one's immune system healthier and more balanced.[/B] [U]This is done through diet, exercise and avoiding the things (triggers) that are harmful to the immune system.[/U] Sounds easy, doesn't it?

Here were my chronically high blood pressure readings from 1998 through 2004:

[LIST]
[*]1998- 152/97; readings= 1016
[*]1999- 146/92; readings= 3599
[*]2000- 145/92; readings= 3322
[*]2001- 147/92; readings= 2375
[*]2002- 151/96; readings= 1423
[*]2003- 151/96; readings= 1032
[*]2004- 146/91; readings= 2065
[/LIST]

I am convinced that people suffering from disabling or life threatening diseases can greatly improve their lives and health through diet, exercise and avoiding the things (triggers) that irritate and aggravate their immune systems. I really feel that, most people waiting for heart transplants could easily reverse their heart disease, but unfortunately, will either die, or have to get their heart replaced because diet, exercise and avoidance of triggers, is not profitable to our medical industry. Sad, isn't it? :( :mad:

[QUOTE]They say that things get worse after starting Coreg before they get better. Has that been your experience? [/QUOTE]

At first, it increased my blood pressure, but thereafter it reduced my blood pressure too much!

I didn't stay on the increased dose of Coreg long enough to find out about too many other problems. When it caused me sinus problems, I backed the dosage down. It was also giving me too low of a blood pressure, so I finally backed it down to 3.125mg, once per day.

[QUOTE]I read some of the results of the clinical trials -Comet, Copernicus, Swedic and Capricorn. They say it appears to restore calcium homeostasis. This is what is thought to contribute to the diastolic restoration and changes in LV filling pattern. ... I think the calcium angle is fascinating - the fact that the changes in calcium homeostasis result in an increased diastolic calcium concentration. I'll definitely try to learn more about it.[/QUOTE]

Good luck. That is all Greek to me. I'm glad that you understand that stuff. :dizzy:

Keep up the great research! It's a shame that you didn't go into a medical profession. With your research abilities, and fascination with how things work, you would have been very good at it.

Thanks for posting the results of your research. I hope that you are doing quite well, and will continue to do well! :wave:





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