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Re: SO full!
Jul 25, 2006
Well, first of all you are full because when you restrict your stomach shrinks cause you are not eating enough and then when you actually start to eat more your stomach is small and is full quicker.
I don't think you are eating nearly enough if you are trying to recover. But I am sure you know that, right?
I know how hard it is when you live with people who don't have to ever worry about what they eat. I too was in the same position a couple of years ago and I had a really hard time. I completely stopped eating and lost a ton of weight cause I didn't want anyone to see me eating and I couldn't eat the food they ate. (fried food, take out, pizza all the time)
Just remember that they may not eat breakfst but they eat a lot more than you do at dinner and lunch time and probably snack throughout the day so they aren't hungry in the morning.
Don't compete (easier said than done) and don't compare yourself to them. You are trying to recover and you HAVE to eat more than you are right now.
Frozen yogurt is not bad for you, its ok to have it every night. When I was seeing a nutritionist she told me that instead of a fruit after dinner I could have some ice-cream or frozen yogurt. Also, try adding some more fruit to your diet. One banana a day isn't enough. As a previous poster mentioned your lunch is really small, try eating a little bit more. Or in the afternoon with your latte why not have a slice of toast or an apple with peanut butter or some cottage cheese and some crakcers.
I know its hard but try to focus on other things during the day.
Re: SO full!
Jul 28, 2006
hey dudes, i'm here and i've got a lot to say (mainly to ls, but the stuff i'm planning on writing will probably be helpful to all of us, even me, lol!)

so back to the beginning of this thread, no way, ls, that was not enough food and i know you know that. i think you even knew that as you posted it, am i right? you know what is/is not enough/healthy by now, right? in terms of fullness, honestly, i don't really buy it. or if i DO buy that you were "so full," then i feel more worried for you because i fear that your treatment hasn't helped you as much as it should have. here's why: by this point in your treatment, IF you'd followed your meal plan even relatively regularly, then that day would NOT have made you full. i'm sorry, it just wouldn't have. that was not NEARLY enough food for someone your age/weight/exercise habits/height, and if you had actually worked on retraining/refeeding your body, you would realize that now (ie: you'd feel HUNGRY eating that little food). that makes me worried, cuz i feel like your hesitance to follow the plan you've been given is REALLY screwing up your perception of a "normal" day's worth of food, you know?

regardless of anything else, you have GOT to learn to follow that plan, hon. day in and day out, no excuses. look at how long it's been and you still feel "so full" eating probably 50% of what you're supposed to eat?!? it's hurting your recovery, babe, and it worries me. i think girlygirl is right when she says that, even if it means eating nearly the EXACT same foods every day for weeks, you have to do it to learn to properly feed your body. when i first started eating more, that's pretty much what i did. for example, breakfast was cereal or oatmeal with a yogurt and fruit. EVERY SINGLE DAY. now? i'll eat (and do regularly eat) anything! cereal (any kind), oatmeal, eggs, toast with whatever on it, bagels, pop-tarts, donuts, you name it. but i didn't START there. i started on A) cereal or B) oatmeal. anything else was WAY too scary, so yeah, for a couple weeks at least (probably more), i ate one of those two every single day. then i worked up the nerve for bagels with cream cheese and added them into the rotation. then later, toast with peanut butter, then donuts, etc. but it took TIME to do that and regardless of ANYTHING else, i made sure i was always sticking to my plan, you know? so i didn't haul off and start twisting and turning my meal plan right away, cuz i knew it'd make me WAY too nervous and anxious and i'd probably "skip" some things in my plan. i started safe and VERY monotonous and comfortable, but i routinely branched out in little ways.

so basically what i'm trying to say is that you NEED to start out following that strict plan and eating those same few foods every day if necessary. and not until you can regularly do that (which you haven't done yet) can you start playing around and varying things, k?

in terms of "fullness," make a rule: if you ate EVERYTHING on the plan, then you can moan to yourself about how full you are. if you didn't, check that voice and tell yourself that regardless of how you think you feel, you did NOT eat enough. you keep letting that feeling (which i'm 99% sure is ED-driven, not LS-driven) stop you and that needs to stop. if ED is full and telling you not to eat all the food, tell him to bugger off. if you eat all the food on your plan, then you can feel a little bad if you've gotta (but i've got a feeling you won't feel so crappy, cuz like i said, it's ED that feels "stuffed," not you)

Carbs. you need to talk to your dietician about this. THEY ARE NOT BAD. yet you routinely avoid them. that needs to stop and you and your dietician need to find a way to get you eating them regularly and feeling comfortable with it. (and by the way, the "comfortable" feeling usually COMES from eating a food enough times that you stop fearing it. so fight it off, hon!)

okay, last but certainly not least, the OBSESSION with dessert. i TOTALLY used to have this (and have gotten over it), so i feel like i've got a lot of 1st hand experience ya'll can draw from. i always had ONE big dessert every night (and NO others), and i'd plan them out days in advance, look forward to them all day, barely taste my dinner because i was so excited for Ho-Hos, etc. so yes, i FULLY understand and remember what you all are talking about. will it go away? yep, it will! quickly? probably not (at least it didn't for me) but the good thing is that it WILL go away, but you've gotta get healthier first.

a few of my thoughts on the subject: why do you crave it SO badly? well first, because you deprive yourself all day. you A) aren't eating enough REGULARLY, so your body is hungry and B) aren't allowing yourself ALL foods, so your body wants those "off limits" foods. and since you won't even give it ANY off-limits foods (like ice cream), it'll crave the next best thing (frozen yogurt) like CRAZY until you get it. until you're at a healthy weight and eating enough every single day, i don't think that obsession will start to fade. and also, until you ALLOW yourself ALL foods (not just SUPER healthy ones), you won't stop being obsessed with your ONE dessert. get me? would you ever eat oreos or ICE CREAM instead of frozen yogurt? until you will, you won't stop obsessing over it. would you ever eat a Hershey's after lunch AND plan on having dessert after dinner? until you have that FREEDOM in allowing yourself those foods when you want them, then you will continue to be completely OBSESSED with your one TREAT throughout the day.

just think: when everything else you eat is light/healthy/diety/BORING, then you're gonna WAIT till your one chance to ENJOY your food. i know it sounds weird, but i believe that your reluctance to eat something like pizza is directly related to your frozen yogurt obsession. because you choose the "grilled chicken salad, dressing on the side" when you REALLY want the burger and fries, then your brain will just start obsessing over when it gets something it actually WANTS (ie: the dessert)

so what can you do? wait it out and keep trying. keep sticking to the plan and pushing yourself, both in terms of the foods you eat for meals and in terms of dessert. it doesn't ALWAYS have to be frozen yogurt, you know? when's the last time you ate oreos? seriously, when? i think you need to PLAN 3 non-frozen yogurt desserts this week and then actually eat them, you know? so just keep challenging yourself and switching things up and i promise, it WILL fade eventually. (now that's not to say i DON'T look forward to my chocolate cake at night, lol! i'll always love my sweets! it's just that i don't start thinking about it the minute i fall out of bed, you know?)

okay, i really gotta go! talk to you all soon and hope this helps!
Re: SO full!
Jul 29, 2006
Joni-
Your advice always helps me so much b/c I feel like we have such similar thought patterns. I'm sure you're absolutely right about the dessert thing, but I guess I deny the fact that I deprive myself during the day b/c I truly feel like I'm eating so much! I don't remember the last time I said "I'm going to have a brownie after dinner tonight!" and felt 100% ok with that. The frozen yogurt is something I really love, but it's also SAFE. I started telling people in my group the other day that it was ice cream I was addicted to b/c I was embarassed that it was just frozen yogurt and I knew they would say it was fine. So I told them it was ice cream to see what they would say then. That is not normal b/c I made them think I am eating ice cream every single night and I'm not!...it's frozen yogurt!!
Let's take today for example...
Breakfast was Egg beaters scrambled with LF cheese in a wheat tortilla and orange juice
Then I had coffee with nonfat milk and a granola bar as a snack
Lunch was 3 rye crackers with 1/2 cup LF cottage cheese and 1-1.5c of this waldorf chicken salad (walnuts, grapes, celery, LF mayo - at least I think lowfat)
Then I had an apple as a snack later.
And dinner was a teriyaki rice bowl. I just got home from being out (had about 2 drinks) and was really hungry (but I HATE eating when I get home so late) so I had some crackers and a bowl of cottage cheese, mango, and blueberries. WHY DO I FEEL BAD?
I think it's because I have these strict guidelines in my head as to what is "normal" and when I stray from them, I feel gross. But, like you said, I should be able to fight those feelings off now that I am through with my Outpatient Program and have learned new coping skills. The truth is, I am MUCH better at identifying my emotions, I HAVE restored some weight, and I am all-around "better," if you want to call it that...but I still have Ed asserting his opinion right and left!

I sort of get scared sometimes, Joni, because I honestly think you are right. I've almost convinced myself and lied to myself that I follow my meal plan 100% and I'm on my way to "normality," but really, I don't and so therefore I am not. My MP breakfast is 2 carbs, 2 protein, 1 fat, 1 fruit and 1 dairy. That started out as 2 pieces of toast, 2 eggs, cheese, and fruit and has slowly dwindled to 1 wheat tortilla, egg beaters, LF cheese and sometimes juice. I know that's not THAT different, but it's those little changes that I can't afford to make b/c they are what I NEED to push me over the edge right? I just can't imagine my life being controlled by this ED any longer. It makes me sad to even imagine. Yeah, maybe I'm not deathly thin anymore and obviously sick, but I am still very conscious of this disease and it still affects me tremendously day in and day out. I truly wish I could meet you and you could help me tackle this b/c it's SO hard. Especially when I compare what I HAVE to eat to what my friends eat and I feel like a huge cow. Howcome I HAD to eat dinner tonight before we went out drinking, but they didn't? Howcome I make eggs every single morning and they can run out the door on empty? It just frustrates me!
I'm scared now that my program is over and I'm on my own, basically. I guess this will be the true test to see if I can keep it together on my own. I'm honestly praying that I can.

How are YOU? How is the job going? Acting? Boyfriend? Still in Chicago? Have things gotten easier with your ED? Have you restored more weight? I hope you're happy and healthy - write again soon....
XO
LS
Re: SO full!
Jul 29, 2006
Hey girls,

i too don't have a ton of time, but i wanted to post a few quick things. ls, i'm really glad you're recognizing where your fallbacks and major challenges are right now. you aren't in a state of complete denial about where you're "skimping" on meals and what's holding you back, so that's good. now the next step is acting on that, which is a lot harder than just noticing it, but i KNOW that you can do this. i really believe the key is establishing STRUCTURE for every day and taking one small step at a time. i'm thinking about it sort of like saving money, you know? it's too much too think about all at once (ie: saving for a house one day, oh my!), but when you start to establish some structure and habit with it (ie: every paycheck, i will put $200 in the bank) and then work up from there, it really becomes more manageable. AND it becomes more AUTOMATIC, so you don't have to worry and stress out about it. you just do it, what you know you should be doing, and in the end, it isn't that painful. PLUS, because it becomes an automatic habit, you don't run any risk of screwing up, you know? like, because you already put the $200 in the bank, you can't change your mind last minute and spend it on shoes. you've already set up a structure that you follow every day (or paycheck in the money situation), so you actually have to WORK to break it, instead of working just to MAKE it happen, you know?

anyway, don't know if that really made much sense, but basically, i think that establishing that structure with food and GRADUALLY (not suddenly) adding and changing and improving things is the best way to go.

and on that note ... the grocery store! This is the primary place that i think you can REALLY take some steps forward. here's why: if low-fat cheese isn't in the house, you can't eat it, right? if egg beaters aren't there, you've gotta have real eggs, right? since you're living on your own now, this is the PERFECT opportunity for you to start making those changes. i'm assuming that you buy all your own food for your meals/snacks, right? (that's what my roomates and i always did) well now, hon, you've gotta set up "grocery store rules." it's time for you to get down to the nitty-gritty technical stuff, cuz i think you're doing GREAT with the emotional side of things, but now you've just gotta tackle the technical aspects of recovery, right? and honestly, it isn't that hard. you just turn Ed to "OFF" in the grocery store, follow your pre-set "rules" of grocery shopping and DO IT. don't think, just DO. wear an i-pod while you shop maybe (music really helps me shut Ed's voice out) and just buy what's on your grocery list. Leave, put the stuff away at home and then eat it. honeslty, i think you'll find this is a LOT easier and less painful than it seems.

so now, some "Grocery Store Rules" suggestions from me! first, use a list. decide what you're going to buy in advance and then buy it. all of it. (even if there's something scary on the list!) make sure the list you make gets you ALL the food you need to stick to your meal plan, okay? second, make some strict rules. some obvious ones i would think of for you would be 1) i only buy regular cheese, 2) i only buy real eggs, 3) i will buy a loaf of bread every time i shop, etc. and then, DO NOT break those rules. just walk into the egg section, pick up the eggs, and MOVE. don't dwell on "well, maybe i should get egg beaters because blah blah blah." since you've A) made your list and B) made those rules, you've just gotta do what you KNOW is right. and then just keep shopping. cuz if you let yourself (or rather Ed) start comtemplating the food choices, you risk falling back, you know?

it's hard when you and Ed start "talking" in the grocery store, i know. it still gets me sometimes too. like Ed will say "just get light sour cream, it tastes the same and it's lower calories," but i know i should get the regular. and i stand there for like 2 minutes like a MORON staring at the sour creams and trying to decide between light and regular. and i have to FORCE myself to pick up that stupid regular and keep shopping. cuz i know if i get the light this time, Ed will remind me of that next time and then next thing i know, Ed and me will be buying the "fat-free" and that's NOT the direction i want to head in, you know? and honestly, when i get that "regular" sour cream home in my fridge, i'm like "why was i debating about this?!?! it's not even a big deal!" and then i happily eat it and don't stress.

i don't know if you'd be willing to do this, but another suggestion is to enlist the help and support of your roomates. i know it sounds embarrassing, but think about it, if you were in their shoes, wouldn't you want to help your friend get better as quickly as possible? what i mean is to tell them your "shopping rules." that way they KNOW that LF cheese is not allowed. i think that will help deter you from "breaking" the rules, plus, then even if you slip, you can talk it over with friends who really care about you and i think it'll help you do better next grocery shop, you know? for me, i still slip and pick up the "light" sometimes. but Eric knows that i'm not "supposed" to (according to my own rules.) so he'll pull it out and be like, "Jo! what is this?!? you know i'm not supposed to eat light sour cream!" and then we laugh about it and then next time, i don't buy it cuz i KNOW it's not the healthy choice for me.

the final grocery store tip i've got for you is to buy one (just one!) scary food each time. i'd suggest a dessert this time. like what's your FAVORITE packaged cookie? oreos, chips ahoy, nutter butters, those striped ones with a hole in the middle? i really think you should buy just one kind of cookies (your fav!). it doesn't have to be something terrifying like a cheesecake from the bakery, but just something "out of the norm" that you LOVE the taste of. just get the package in your cupboard. you might keep them there for 2 weeks before you actually work up the nerve to open them and have a couple, but at least they're there, you know? i really think this is key. cuz the more you see that "forbidden" food that you love, the more you're gonna want it and then finally, you'll get brave and eat it! and then you realize you don't die from it and eat it again the next day. and so on until X kind of cookies is no longer scary, you know? so then you buy something else and keep doing this same process. yes, it's tedious and somewhat anxiety-ridden, but the benefits FAR outweigh the negatives.

finally (i really gotta go!), try (and yes, this IS hard to do) to not pay attention to what others eat. ED loves to do that, we know that already, right? but what Ed always seems to "not notice" is when others eat MORE than us. he ONLY notices when he THINKS we're eating more. trust me, this is tough, but you HAVE to do it to an extent. i live with a 27 year old guy who eats A LOT, and Ed and me battle this out ALL the time. like i "don't notice" when Eric sits down and polishes off 1/2 a bag of chips with a side of mountain dew before dinner. but i blow my top off and feel like a fat cow when he skips breakfast. the truth is that our perception of when/what others eat is TOTALLY morphed, so we HAVE to stick to our plan and just try to keep moving forward and try as best as we can to ignore our ideas of what others eat. cuz frankly, as much as we can "prove" we're eating SO much more, we wrong. we don't KNOW what/when others eat, so we have to work on letting it go, you know? and your friends not eating dinner before going out? that's not normal. so just tell yourself that over and over and over if you have to. if it makes you feel any better, ALL of my friends eat dinner before going out and always have, k?

well i gotta go, but i hope this helps! oh yeah, and i'm doing good! no acting, looking for a new job still (frustrating!) and going to Madison, WI (where i went to college) to visit friends this weekend, yay! have a good weekend and GO SHOPPING! :)





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