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Liver & Pancreas Disorders Message Board


Liver & Pancreas Disorders Board Index


[QUOTE=redrdr]Thanks HappyMan. Don't know if you've seen any of my other postings re my liver problems. I'm new to these boards and have already found them to be extremely helpful/encouraging. I am scared that I'm in (undiagnosed) end-stage liver failure because of stuff I did and mostly from what I researched online. I have not seen the doc yet; hopefully go Tues., though I'm scared to. My question is basically could I be at end-stage with having the symptoms of "ascites". It's unbelievable swelling in my abdomin. It's probably doubled since last week. Looks like I'm about 4-5 months pregnant. I have no other symptoms, except the exhaustion, malaise, and of course the right upper quadrant pain(perhaps from the pressure?) I also have a question about how I read that liver problems don't have the liver hurting, but I can guarantee you mine is extremely painful right now. Thanks so much for anything you can share. I'm happy that you took such good care of yourself;you're a good role model for those who perhaps still have time. Wish I had used my head!![/QUOTE]

Hi Redrdr - Oh, I'm not all that innocent......
But, as to your situation, the large swelling belley could be as you suggest, "ascites", but it could also be other things.... A few questions if you dont mind... Do you drink a lot ???? About how much and how long.... And from the tone of your post maybe other drugs ? An lastly, are you very overweight ? Not trying to sound prying here........

Ascities is one symptom of Cirrhosis. So are Spier Veins, Red Palms, Jaundice, Dark Urine, Shaky Hands, Swelling in the Legs, Enlarged Male Breasts, Funny looking Fingernails, Hair Loss, and Muscle wasting (there are others too). Do any of these sound familiar ????

But try not to worry... even if you have Cirrhosis it dosent necessarily mean it's "end stage"........
I am sure your Doc will want to do a Liver Panel Blood Test.
The results of that test and your "exam" will give him a real good idea of whats going on. Try NOT to be scared. No matter what else happens, make sure you schedule and attend the exam. It's the first step into a new World....

You have a lot of Hope, I can tell........
Well, Good Luck and Let Me Know. :) :) :)

Your other symptoms could be anything ????? Even the pain in the side could be caused by lots of things, even your mind, though I am not suggesting that.
[QUOTE=redrdr]Thanks so much, HappyMan, for answering. Answers to your ???:
No, I only drink socially....and very intermittenly.
Drugs-a big yes (and here's the part I have such a hard time with!) only from taking large amounts of extra strength tylenol and lots of darvocet over the last 4-5 years. I [U]stupidly[/U] thought it was "just" tylenol and the darvocet was "mild" compared to other pain meds. Never worried about the tylenol part
Yes, I am very overweight due to Prednisone that I took a few years back due to 2 chronic illnesses. That and being over 40, as well as a few other issues, meant I never lost the weight. :o
symptoms: don't appear jaundiced; incredible fatigue;palms not really red;fingernails ok; a little shaky in the hands; a little leg swelling;lots of ankle swelling;hair really thin;right upper quadrant pain

As far as the ascites go, I read that it showed up in people with toxicity of the liver from tylenol in the "end-stage" of liver disease. Read this at 3 or 4 different websites. I had a horrible bout two years ago (no, didn't go to dr.), and I'm wondering if that's when this really started. I've not felt well in a long, long, long time.

The doc---don't want to admit how much tylenol and darvocet I've been taking all these years. Am worried that it might damage my chance at a transplant, if it would ever have to be. (most things I read, again at quite a few sites, said that transplant is very, very common after hepatotoxicity from tylenol ingestion. Also, have to admit I'm scared silly and also feeling horribly guilty/stupid/ashamed at my bringing this on.
Haven't been going to doc, no ins.

Sorry I've rambled. Thanks so very, very much.[/QUOTE]

Hi Redrdr - your not rambling..... and you are welcome for any help I can share....

So you are not a heavy drinker but youve taken lots of Tylenol and Darvocet, both pain killers...... Just out of curiosity just how much Tylenol have/do you take ?????
Yes, it is not good for the liver. I have heard that the Darvocet can be habit forming.......

Why have you been taking pain killers ???? For the upper quadrant pain ????? or the operations ????? What is this "horrible bout" that happened two years ago ????

And it's too bad you had to take Prednisone. Thats probably what caused you to gain weight. My Mother had to take it for a long time after her hip surgery. She was taking 60 mg a day for a long time.........it took her a long time to get "weaned" off of it. One of my Docs tried to put me on it a while back and I simply refused.

But, never the less, it's good you dont have too many other symptoms of end-stage liver disease (I suppose you are most worried about Cirrhosis) . The ascites you speak of and the ankle swelling are just forms of Edema. Although not great things to have I dont think that this necessarily means that you an have end-stage liver situation. It means that your body is "retaining" fluid (water).....If your upcomming tests dont show any liver problems then maybe you can take a diuretic to help you get rid of the excess fluid (ironically one of the best natural diuretics is Dandelion Root - I take it every day)

If I were you I'd go to the Doc and get a CBC (including a Liver Panel). The results of that test and his "exam" will give you a better idea where you stand. You could just tell him about your operations, the Prednisone, and how you havent been feeling good and that you have been taking some Tylenol and Darvocet and let him take it from there.......

So, dont be afraid to take the big step, get that exam as soon as you can and try not to worry. Things have a way of turning out for the best and make sure you let me know what happens.... :) :) :)
To be scared is to be Human :angel:
[QUOTE=TheHappyMan]Hi Redrdr - your not rambling..... and you are welcome for any help I can share....

So you are not a heavy drinker but youve taken lots of Tylenol and Darvocet, both pain killers...... Just out of curiosity just how much Tylenol have/do you take ?????
Yes, it is not good for the liver. I have heard that the Darvocet can be habit forming.......

Why have you been taking pain killers ???? For the upper quadrant pain ????? or the operations ????? What is this "horrible bout" that happened two years ago ????

And it's too bad you had to take Prednisone. Thats probably what caused you to gain weight. My Mother had to take it for a long time after her hip surgery. She was taking 60 mg a day for a long time.........it took her a long time to get "weaned" off of it. One of my Docs tried to put me on it a while back and I simply refused.

But, never the less, it's good you dont have too many other symptoms of end-stage liver disease (I suppose you are most worried about Cirrhosis) . The ascites you speak of and the ankle swelling are just forms of Edema. Although not great things to have I dont think that this necessarily means that you an have end-stage liver situation. It means that your body is "retaining" fluid (water).....If your upcomming tests dont show any liver problems then maybe you can take a diuretic to help you get rid of the excess fluid (ironically one of the best natural diuretics is Dandelion Root - I take it every day)

If I were you I'd go to the Doc and get a CBC (including a Liver Panel). The results of that test and his "exam" will give you a better idea where you stand. You could just tell him about your operations, the Prednisone, and how you havent been feeling good and that you have been taking some Tylenol and Darvocet and let him take it from there.......

So, dont be afraid to take the big step, get that exam as soon as you can and try not to worry. Things have a way of turning out for the best and make sure you let me know what happens.... :) :) :)
To be scared is to be Human :angel:[/QUOTE]

Thanks again, HappyMan! I can't think of much but all of this...sorry.
Prednisone was taken years ago for one of my chronic illnesses. I was on 90mg (and weighed only 121 at the time!) They started with lower doses, but not effective. I would taper down to 20 mg, then disease would rear its ugly head again. Stayed on them too long. NEVER abused them or took too much, just the opposite-fought to get off of them. There were times when I was so sick I was hospitalized and given SoluCortef by IV (prednisone's sister) Because of all this, I developed cataracts before I turned 30. One eye has lens implant. They told me how low the % of people get cataracts from the Predn. and took pics of them for some of their journals (lucky me, huh?) So, you are wise to take them only if absolutely have to. Vain me was always worrying about the weight fluctuations and the rapid hair growth (from the testosterone in them). Little did I know what they were doing to my eyes, heart, and liver.

Taking the meds for the that chronic illness and also degenerative disc disease with nerve root involvement. My right leg pain is unbelievable sometimes, along with the burning and numbness.Was doctored out in the 80's and early 90's. In hospitals more than out for both chronic illnesses. Procedured to death, too. Had many things go wrong. Like the cataracts, a lung collapsed from a procedure (they accidentally grazed my lung while putting in a central line and caused a pneumothorax), my son @ 5 mths old had a hernia operation and they mistakenly cut a piece of his vas thus giving him a mini-vasectomy, and some more lovely things happened to me in the 12 years I was being constantly "doctored". So.....because of all this and also NO med ins after my divorce (not insurable as you could've guessed), I stopped going to Gastro, Ortho, Colo-rectal guys. Only dr. I've seen is ob-gyn's. They would write me small scripts for Darvocet because of problems they'd see. SO.....the last 4-5 years, I've been taking darvocet and LOTS of tylenol. Stupid me took them together before I knew darv's had acet. in them. Also took Tylenol PM to sleep. Also took sinus stuff with acet. and didn't read the labels. Yep, I took sometimes double the pain meds as I got no relief from them at lower doses.
Don't want to admit to dr that I've taken so much. Also, I'm worried about them questioning my Darv. use and where I got some of them. I read where online pharmacies are getting into trouble for dispensing w/o a doc visit. Also worried that my bloodwork is going to show elevated amounts of the meds.
Worried about the ascites being "end-stage" b/c that's what I read about liver damage caused by overuse of tylenol. Then I worry about admitting all this stuff and hurting my chance for a liver transplant if needed. Keep wondering if I stay away from dr long enough perhaps bloodwork won't show so much meds. But, honestly, hurt too bad to not go.
Tried using OTC diuretic last two days. No help.
Bout two years ago...I was heavily using darvocet and tylenol then. Had a period then when I was vomitting, etc. Then....no symptoms. Stupid me then returned to using them, just lower amounts for awhile. While reading info, I read where that's like stage one...the bad bout. Then stage two is the "dormant" period, then stage three is extreme liver damage, mostly irreversible. SO....that's where all my stress is coming from. I seem to fit that pattern.

I still have the hardest time admitting all this stuff (Catholic school girl guilt??!!) Also, I can't describe how I'm beating myself up about this. How could I be so stupid after all I've been through. I let the pain get to me, I think, and I let reason go out the window. Then, yes, I think the darv. became extremely habit-forming. No excuse for it, though and I'm paying for it now. Do you think dr. will give me serious trouble if I admit the amounts and kinds of meds I've taken? Espec. the Darv?

Thanks again for listening and answering. I do seem to ramble and stay self-focused right now. I truly am sorry. It's not usually me. Thank you!!!!!!!





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