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Hiya :wave:

I guess i'm not so much discussing if spanking as punishment is an apporopriate one, infact neither am i putting a case for or against anything here.
with cutie dd sophie (4.5yrs), i find myself having to spank her (and yes its effective). when i spank, i mean around 5/6 slaps on her bare bottom. :eek:

The other day I was talking to my best friend about everthing and we started talking about this and she said i should really spank on the bare butt.
Believe me, when i spank, it is always done in privacy and with my bare hand.
Humiliation is definately not part of my punishemnt, but as a last resort, this what she responds to.

But sorry, back to question, do others also spank on the bare bottom?

Thnx, keep replyin xxx
Kathy
Hi this subject is very touchy I think. I have to say that this time around I will not be hitting my children. I use to spank my son ( now 19 ) and if I could turn back time I WOULDNT HAVE ! As for a 2 year old, there is no way they would understand why they are getting punished. All they would understand is that mummy is hurting me :( My daughter will be 2 at the end of September and I just wouldnt dream of pulling her nappy off and spanking her bottom. I have given her a tap on the hand once and I wont be doing it again. When my eldest son was a boy he was a VERY difficult child to bring up ( adhd, learning difficulties etc ) and I will tell you now all the spanking in the world did not alter his behaviour. In hindsight I would say it made him worse. I think all spanking does is put fear into a child which I dont think is good. Yes fear is good when it comes to learning about life etc. But not to be frightened of your own parents. Your home and family should be your safe haven and comfort zone where you know you are safe and looked after.
As always the subject of dicipline is very controversial. Siren, let me tell you that i commend you for the parenting you are doing with your child. I so agree with everything you have said. It sounds like we were raised similar and that we also share the same values that were instilled in us by our parents thanks to being diciplined and raised "the old school way". You are also RIGHT ON when you spoke about the statistics of our societies children today as compared to the earlier generations.

I also wanted to make the point about 2 year olds not understanding why they are being diciplined. I must say that IMO that is so very untrue. Parents who believe this i believe is just not giving their 2 year olds enough credit. A two year old child is very intelligent, if a child is taught "no" from an early age they know not to do certain things or touch certain things, Most two year olds have a very large vocabulary as well as many have been taught and know how to use the potty!!!!! Two year old children, regardless how they are diciplined, certainly know what they are being diciplined for.

A good spanking is far from being abuse. Children who are raised in a stable and loving home, who are taught right from wrong at an early age, that are diciplined with a firm hand certainly are NOT living every day being afraid.

Like Siren, myself and my husband too was raised in a loving home with firm and strict dicipline and we were happy, well rounded children who grew up to be respectful and productive people. We are the parents of 5 children ranging in the ages from 18 down to 9. We have raised our children the "old school way" teaching them right from wrong, acceptable and non acceptable behavior from a very young age. Our children always knew that if a spanking was warranted that they would get one, however, with showing the children love and the start of teaching at a very young age our children didnt require very many spankings. I am also very proud to say that besides the "normal" things that children will do, our children have never been in any kind of real serious trouble, as well as my husband and i have recieved so many compliments from different people as to what nice, caring, compassionate, RESPECTFUL and well behaved children we have.

I do feel that unfortunately nowadays there are just so many parents out there who do abuse and neglect their children. The parents are just sooooo wrapped up in their own lives, be it their jobs, relationships, hobbies, you name it, that they dont take the time to give their children the attention, love, and support that these children all so deserve. So many parents dont even have a clue as to what and how their children are doing in school, as well as many kids are left home alone for hours after school because the parents have to work and many of these parents probably would just cringe if they knew what their kids were doing when they arent home.

Like i had said, dicipline is such a controversial issue, however, there is a REAL difference between spanking and abuse. If spanking was abuse then many many parents would be in jail right now. I have a friend who is a Social Worker with Children Services, I have talked with her at great length about their guidelines for child abuse, per Family/Children Services SPANKING ON THE BOTTOM IS NOT WITHIN THEIR GUIDELINES OF ABUSE !

In an earlier post i had mentioned about acquaintences coming over with their ill behaved children. These parents have 3 children, they have shown their children much unconditional love, however, these parents dont believe in spanking. They "talk" to their children and when the children misbehave they "ask" them and say "please" will you behave! Let me tell you, those 3 children are probably 3 of the worse behaved children i have EVER seen!!!!! When these parents would "ask" their children to behave in a pleading pathetic voice that would just totally annoy me and just make me nauseous.
Needless to say, they thankfully dont stop by to visit anymore.
These 3 children are still fairly young, but i'll tell ya, i really hate to even think about the things that they will do or the trouble that they will be into when they get just a little older. It is so very sad when parents allow such bad behavior as it's the children who end up suffering for it later.

ValleyGurl
I have a 2 year old almost 3 and I spank her mostly on the bum if she would not ABSOLUTELY listen to me what so ever. I spanked her bare bottom 2 or 3 times. So yeah, it all depends on the child and the parent's view on the morality of it. SOmetimes my daughter gets so out of control, and after trying to talk in a low but stern tone, then yell, then say your going to time out, and she STILL doesn't listen, then I proceed to spank her and THEN she listens. Hey, disciplin is discipline and it's mentioned somewhere in the bibile by the way. I don't believe in spanking as an ultimate solution but when you've tried and tried and they still don't listen then, IMO, a lick or 2 is what works for me! ANd yah, I feel a little bad about it but she listens and like I said it works, cause as we all know, parenting can be VERY stressful expecially at my daughter's age...and also very fun too. :D
There have been many many things that have "work" for centuries that we know now are wrong. I wont go in to the details. Something that always made sense to me is something my mother always told me. "Foul language and physical abuse is a feeble mind searching to express its self". Spanking is a quick fix for parents IMO. Of course children hit at a young age they do a lot of things like pull hair too, its immature behavior. They cannot express there full feelings at that age. Or they don't know any better. And no a boss wouldn't give a time out, but he/she could fire or discipline by demoting. Which later on when a child is old enough, they can realize it goes along the lines of a time out. Spanking works for a short time and as soon as the child is used to it, they become desensitized. When a child hurts themselves, it is in no way the same as getting hurt by someone else. They are learning by trial and error. Sticking there finger in a light socket ( hopefully they are covered) or touching something hot is the child exploring there world. They don't need to be hit for touching. Hopefully a parent is there to show them without the child getting hurt. They have to learn things are hot or cold or they need to see cars going by in the street etc. As far as crime. Well over half of people in jail have been physically abuse or sexually abused it is a fact. Pulling a childs pants down and hitting doesn't help teach that there bottom is there "private" parts. I have never heard of anyone saying "I turned out bad because I wasn't spanked".
The "bare bottom" thing. Do you ask her to remove her clothes, or do you take off her pants and then her underware? That seems shocking.

I think of my children asking for privacy on the potty, or perhaps myself explaining "private parts" in accordance with their you know whats and how if we touch those privates...we don't do in PRIVATE. Getting naked from the waist down for a spanking seems a little too...too...much. I read a book about war and it talked about humiliating POWs by making them remove their pants before they were whiped. The idea of the removal of clothes was a psycholigical tool to add to the beatings.

Still..I was spanked-don't spank, but don't think I was emotionaly harmed from it. My brother, however, remembers every spanking and when he was 6 replied to a teacher in detention: Why can't I hit-my mom does!" He hit a boy on the bottom with a library book when he didn't stop calling him names.

I guess no parent will ever know if spankings have a life-long effect on their children until after the spankings are long over.
To answer your question, MI, I don't take his diaper off and spank his bare butt. However, I do administer the smack just below the diaper. On the fleshy part of the upper thigh right where the bottom meets it. (usually at home he's only in a diaper and tshirt. If we are out somewhere, I don't remove any clothing.) I only do this because the he seems to feel nothing through the diaper.

Thinking back, my parents rarely spanked the bare bum. They did, however, use a belt or a paddle so clothing removal was uncessary.

The reason I don't spank through the diaper very often is because I want to be able to get my point across with one lick. I will never spank him more than 3 times (and that's for the WORST offenses, and only through clothes) and if he doesn't care if I spank him through the diaper that's when I start to get angry, especially if he continues the behavior. I don't want to get angry while spanking him, so I've found that one bare skin smack is most effective that way.
Actually, offkilter, you misquoted me. What I actually said was "I don't WANT to get angry while spanking him...." therefore, I don't allow myself. If the one lick works, I use it. No more after that FOR THAT VERY REASON. If the more swats through the diaper DON'T work, I begin to get angry with him. But I never continue beyond that. I really resent being practically called an abusive mother. He's never had any marks left on him, and he is much more well behaved than many kids I know. He's confident, independent, and an all around happy child. None of you can say you've never gotten angry with your children. Come on now.

My son is very bright, has always been developmentally ahead of his age, but he is also VERY strong willed. As I've said many times before, I've tried other types of discipline and he has learned how to fight me on all of them. He's headstrong, and that's a quality I admire, but also needs to be channeled in a positive direction. For those of you who have children who respond to other types of discipline, that's wonderful for you. But don't judge someone before you've been in their shoes.

And certainly don't go misquoting and twisting intentions for your own judgemental purposes.

And, as someone mentioned before, according to CPS SPANKING ON THE BOTTOM IS NOT ABUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offkilter, you are a better parent than me. Okay, is that better? Does that make you feel better? You raise your kids how you see fit, and I'll raise mine. Meanwhile you can sit back and bask in the glow of the knowledge that you are a better mother. Just please, leave me alone about this now.
This is a touchy subject but like all things wrong they take time be recognized as such. Parents want to justify what there parents did. That is how violence and other abuse is passed down. I can only hope it becomes illegal some day to hit a child to punish them. Or for any other reason. And no hitting does not make a child better. It gives a parent an out for there lack of a better way to handle there child. Think about it. What is hitting? It is over powering someone with pain. It is a shock and threat. How does that help teach anyone? I do not believe there is a child out there that can not be handled any other way, than having to resort to hitting. There is always something. Why does it have to end in violence? Is it just because doing something else would take more time? To me it raises a red flag that a parent would say hitting is the only way to make my child behave. I would get that child checked out by a DR. It just doesn't seem right. Many parents have the mentality that "I'm the boss" or "because I said so". Yes parents should be respected and they are in charge of there children, but it goes way beyond, "I'm bigger so I will hit your bare bottom to hurt you, now be good".
I have seen parents who hit there children and make a spectacle of themselves in public. Believe me those kids are not well behaved. Because if spanking worked why would they dare act out in public? Its always the screaming kids having a tantrum being hit in public. I have never one time seen a decent looking family hitting there kids. I am not trying to offend anyone here. But everyone knows what I am taking about. It is usually a ratty looking kid half dressed ( not that it is the poor child's fault) with an at there wits end mother that hits there kids in public. It would take a parent to have to admit they were wrong to make them stop hitting there children and they rarely happens sadly. There really isn't anything anyone can say to change or enlighten the apposing side. That is why laws are made. And I am sure the law will catch up in this matter.
i understand that, for some people, this is a really hot topic and gets the emotions all worked up, but i would like to see an acknowledgment of the difference between 'spanking'- a disciplinary swat on the bottom, and 'hitting' a violent motion carried out on any other part of the body.

i do not 'hit' my kids, and i don't spank on a naked butt either, unless it's already naked, like at bathtime and brother and sister have ahold of each other's hair or something like that, but i certainly will spank them, if the occasion warrants.

raising kids is hard enough, having to deal with judgemental, critical parents who seem to think they know all about raising every kid is not helpful, and i was under the impression that this board was s'posed to be here for us to help each other. suggesting another mother 'get help' and 'stop hurting' her child b/c she spanks him?? please. get off your high horse and join the rest of us back here on earth.

spanking is not an 'out' for parents, nor is it a way to justify the abuse suffered at the hands of one's own parents, it is, what psychologists call 'negative reinforcement.' meaning, child does something naughty, is warned. child does it again, is warned, again, is warned, again, gets spanking, action ceases. child has just learned that if said action is repeated that there will be an unpleasant consequence to that action.

but i am a no-nonsense type person, i do not subscribe to the notion that children are delicate little flowers and need to be sheltered from everything unpleasant. children grow up to be adults, and they need to learn a few things, i am here to teach them, but that cannot happen if they are not paying attention, and i won't coddle them, or cajole them into learning the things that they need to in order to survive life in our world. life hurts, disappointments happen, they need to be tough, strong, goal-oriented, and not be crushed by minor setbacks. they also have to be compassionate, gracious, loving, loyal and forgiving. so far, so good, on all counts.

please, fellow parents, let us give each other a break. let us make room in our hearts and minds for other ways of doing things, including disciplining our own kids. if you can get by with a stern tone, good for you, i hope your kids blossom under your careful, loving tutelage. for you spankers, i'm with you, the stern tone thing doesn't always work for me either.

alternatively, i have recently found the joys of a different type of punishment-- WORK! yes, i have gotten sick and tired of picking up clean and dirty clothes off the floor, cleaning pee off the toilet, toothpaste off the sink, collecting toys inside and outside the house, and cleaning paper, pens and crayons from absolutely everywhere. i put my kids, both 6yo, to work!

my house is always a disaster and i can't take it anymore, now they have to help or they don't get to do anything fun, they have to stay in their room all day. works like a charm, but i have to check on them every 10 or so minutes or they will slack off. now my backyard is clean, they picked up all the trash and toys they had strewn about, and their bedroom is spotless. i also make them scoop the poop from the dog! i'm so excited about this, i'll have 'em cleaning their bathroom in no time!

i do reward them, with a trip to the pool, or the movies, or a dollar or whatever. positive and negative reinforcement at the same time, woo! hope everyone has a good weekend, sorry this is so long!
I do not and will not spank on the bare bottom.

I have two girls ages 8 and 5, and disciplining them is as different as they are.

My 8 year old is very effectively desciplined by standing in the corner while I explain to her why she is there and what is expected of her.

My 5 year old, on the other hand, responds very well to a calm but firm voice. I just tell her what she did is unacceptable and explain what is expected of her, and her big hazel eyes just fill up with tears.

Both of my children are very well behaved, and show a tremendous amount of respect for both people and property.

I understand that spanking is a useful disciplinary tool, I just choose not to use it.

I personally think that anyone that's reading this forum is a good parent and has the best intentions for their child. With that, I must state that I [B]strongly[/B] disagree with the posts basicly stating that non-spankers are better parents.

We are here to help one another, share our experiences, and encourage.

Love and respect go a long way.

Willy Shawn
[QUOTE=arock]i understand that, for some people, this is a really hot topic and gets the emotions all worked up, but i would like to see an acknowledgment of the difference between 'spanking'- a disciplinary swat on the bottom, and 'hitting' a violent motion carried out on any other part of the body.

i do not 'hit' my kids, and i don't spank on a naked butt either, unless it's already naked, like at bathtime and brother and sister have ahold of each other's hair or something like that, but i certainly will spank them, if the occasion warrants.

raising kids is hard enough, having to deal with judgemental, critical parents who seem to think they know all about raising every kid is not helpful, and i was under the impression that this board was s'posed to be here for us to help each other. suggesting another mother 'get help' and 'stop hurting' her child b/c she spanks him?? please. get off your high horse and join the rest of us back here on earth.
...............................................................................................................................................![/QUOTE] Just like you i also use the reward system cuz it wouldn't be right to only disapline if they did something wrong and never notice any good they do. my reward system however is stickers. you see my childern are only 2 1 /2 and almost 1 years old. As they get older i will reward them with other things. what does everyone else reward system consist of?
Spanking is used in my house with my daughter and so far its been effective.
I think the first time i ever spanked her for something was when she was 4 (she now 6). I dont find myself having to spank too often nowadays, if she is being rude or not listening to me, then if I feel the situaton is serious enough i will ask her if she is looking for a spanking? :nono:
Usually thats it, she will already change her attitude but otherwise if i have to spank her i will just spank her around 3/4 times with my palm on her bare bottom. I would never do it in front of others though, shes probably already embarrased enough as it is.
And thats it, usually shes then transformed into a little angel (for a while) :angel: !
So yes i do spank bare botttm
Spanking is used in my house with my daughter and so far its been effective.
I think the first time i ever spanked her for something was when she was 4 (she now 6). I dont find myself having to spank too often nowadays, if she is being rude or not listening to me, then if I feel the situaton is serious enough i will ask her if she is looking for a spanking? :nono:
Usually thats it, she will already change her attitude but otherwise if i have to spank her i will just spank her around 3/4 times with my palm on her bare bottom. I would never do it in front of others though, shes probably already embarrased enough as it is.
And thats it, usually shes then transformed into a little angel (for a while) :angel: !
So yes i do spank bare botttm
The old subject creeps up again and i would like to give my views ....YES...we do spank on the bare our 3 kids ages boy5,girl7,boy7 twins we have found that talking serves no purpose as our kids dont take any notice,and we normally have to resort to hand spanking which is done in private so our kids are spanked not in view of each other,this is something we decided on the 1st time we spanked and have stuck to since,all punishment is bare bottom whatever the offence being from 12 on the bare for a minor to 20 on the bare for a medium offence to 15 on the bare with a slipper for a major offence,its effective as my 7 yr old boy[daniel] was spanked with a slip for stealing in january and hasnt been spanked since by either myself or my wife,we may seem harsh to people who dont agree with spanking we havent had to spank now for weeks as our kids are well mannered,polite, helpful,and great to be with,but know where the line is drawn,on holiday at butlins we were congratulated by lots of parents about how well our kids behaved,so we must be doing something right
You can teach a child to be well behaved and instill morals and dicipline without resorting to spanking..i mean if a child was doing something that was going to harm them in a serious manner..then a slap onthe hand and a firm No should surfice....but we are not raising animals here..children are smarter than some parents make them out to be..they understand..but to them they are learning.."if i do this what will happen?""Let me see".....take away thier fav. toy....sit them on their bed for a couple of minutes in thier room with the door closed...works wonders for me...it's consistancy...some parents get frustrated when the child don't learn from square one..thats when the spanking comes in...and that really instills fear rather than respect from the child..you want respect from your child rather than fear of your hand....and why bare bottom?......to me...just my opinion..sorry if i offend anyone..but thats wrong.....it reminds me when a dog gets a whap on the nose for being bad,,,but children are more intellectual than an animal and can remember..i dont want my children going to bed thinking about mommy or daddy hitting them on thier bare bums...i would like to think about what they did wrong and what the concequence of thier actions will be,,,no more toys..time out by themselves....i think spanking is a venting process for parents when children act up....bare bottomed...i use the 1-2-3 method...i start at 1 when the first thing is done wrong...i gets to 2 when it is done again..but rarely do i have to go to 3 anymore..because she knows when mom reaches 3 it is time out..even when friends are over..she will go to her room and friends got to go home..it took about 2 weeks and she caught on quick....my son is just 2 1/2 months old and he will be diciplined this way too..it takes patience..time..and energy but it DOES work...it takes time on both parent and childs part..but u will earn respect from your child eventually...and to the poster who said that they would tell the parents of unruly children to leave thier house....how can you judge another parent because their children are not behaved..these children will learn eventually..they wont grow up hard tickets...some do..mind u...but kids r kids...if u believe that yelling and spanking a child is beneficial to them..its not...so dont judge an apple before its picked :nono:

Take Care

:bouncing: DazedandConfused :bouncing:
Yes, we do spank. It can be challenging to spank boys when they wear jeans all the time, so I've found that if 'bare bottom' is 'called for', dropping the jeans but keeping the underwear up is just as effective and doesn't send any mixed signals about the privates or modesty, etc.

For those who think other forms of punishment should be used - have any of you bothered to ask the kids? Mine would rather have a spanking - get it over with and get on with life - than to be grounded for X amt. of time.

I know it's wierd, but to me a 'swat' isn't much - it causes so little pain that the child doesn't even come close to crying - but can still get a message across. This is usually
'spur of the moment' such as when the 2 yr. old stands up in the tub (we have a 'no standing rule in the tub for safty reasons - don't need someone slipping, falling & getting hurt), I set him down and say 'you sit down', he gets up, I say 'no - you sit down and stay sitting down', he gets up, I swat his bare bottom once and say 'sit down', he sits down on his own and doesn't get up again. Or when he's reaching for grandma's crystal candle holder on their livingroom coffee table - I move his hand and tell him 'no - don't touch', he tries again, I snap his hand and say 'no', he moves hand and doesn't try again. Honestly - does anyone who does NOT 'spank' have a 2 yr. old that knows to leave certain things alone that are within his reach?! And DOES leave them alone?
A 'spanking' is more serious and we use a thin paddle only on the butt. By the time they're old enough for an official 'spanking', they know exactly why they're getting one. You deliberately disobey or tell a lie, you get as many swats as how old you are. Obviously, the older they get, the fewer 'spankings' are needed.

My parents are of the 'very old school' - my dad has said to me many times 'if it doesn't work, get a bigger stick'. He believes in spanking for any and every offence. On the other hand, we reserve spankings for deliberate disobediance and lying. Other 'offences' are handled in other, more creative ways by finding an appropriate consequence. You complain about dinner - you get an extra helping. You don't finish dinner - you get it for breakfast. You complain about doing dishes - you do them tomorrow, too. You want to be hyper in the house - you get to go out and run around the house X amt. of times, even if it's dark and only 10 degrees outside. You yell and wake brother from his nap - you whisper the rest of the day. You want to pitch a fit (temper tantrum - stomp feet, shake around, etc.) - you stand in front of me and stomp your feet (or do whatever you were doing) till I tell you to stop. (That one's VERY effective!) You stick your tongue out at someone - you stand in front of me and keep it out till I tell you to stop. You want to ruin something of your brother's - you get to make restitution. You take something from a store or friends house - you take it and give it back to a person there. I call you, you don't come, and I have to come get you - I don't talk, just pinch some hair and pull gently yet firmly enough that they gladly follow. (No - I've never pulled any out - and NEVER pull ears - that can be damaging.) Just this morning son #4 wouldn't share the sandbox with son #5 - fine . . . son #4 gets no more sandbox the rest of the day. I guess what I'm saying is that the consequence needs to fit the 'crime' for best effect. After all, that's what real life is all about. If you just have 'time out' for everything, it's really no more effective than spanking for everything.
Sadly yesterday we had to spank all 3 of our kids due to theft from my wifes purse which was found in the twins bedroom,the twins blamed each other and the youngest,the youngest said it wasnt him and blamed the twins saying it was in there bedroom
we decided to ground them all for 1 week but told them if the one who took it owned up we would listen to the reason why before deciding on a punishment,thus the other 2 would be ungrounded and for being honest we would just punish the offender and there would be no grounding,but no-one came forward to own up,they just said it wasnt them
at this point they grounding went up to 2 weeks and they all went to there rooms
we knew we had to do something so after ringing family and friends was advised that a spanking had to be given to all then double the grounding
all 3 were advised that a servere slippering was going to be given to all of them unless the thief owned up and once the punishment started it would be finished even if the offender said it was them,again no-one owned up
my wife took the youngest into the room and after taking his pants down and putting him over her knee she spanked his bare bottom very hard
i took our 8 yr old son into the kitchen after telling our daughter to stand in the hallway and wait,and spanked his bare bottom over my knee until it was red raw,by the time i had finished with our son my wife was spanking our daughter as our youngest was screaming in his bedroom
when all 3 had been serverely spanked and in there bedrooms crying loudly we tried to reflect the further punishment of grounding and decided that a 1 month grounding in the house,no treats for 1 week,2 parties they were due to go to in feb cancelled,the monthly trip to the cinema cancelled,all of these subject to the 1 who did it owning up
at bedtime last night the twins settled down in bed and the youngest after being in bed 1 hr came downstairs and asked if he could tell us why he took it ,he then told us that a new friend had told him if he wanted to keep playing with him he had to give him some money,we complimented him for owning up and told him that we would think about his further punishment if any and let him know later
this morning at breakfast we told the kids that they were all let off grounding, a 1 week no treat ban was still in force,the youngest was banned from the 1st party but could go to the 2nd the twins could go to both,the monthly cinema trip was still in force but we would monitor it weekly depending on if they were good
the youngest is to be subjected every other day for a week to a spanking so he never does this again without telling us 1st
the child who told him to do it,we spoke to his mother this morning who assured us that he would get a servere spanking when he got home from school and my wife is to go to the house to confront him about it incase he denies it
this evening our youngest will be given his 1st spanking,i hope he learns?
yes it is our job to teach them wrong from right and no i never suggested letting them get away with whatever they want. i have worked with many children in my time and can agree that some punishments do not work for some children but there is always another way other than hitting. let me ask one question. If your kitten was doing something wrong or you were looking after an elderly parent and they did something wrong would it be ok to hit them? i would hope the answer to that would be no. so how can we say its ok to do that to a child? and alot of people claim that there is a difference between "spanking" and hitting. what is the difference? just because it doesnt hurt as much on the bottom as it would on the face makes no difference. In my opinion it is still hitting.





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