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Hiya :wave:

I guess i'm not so much discussing if spanking as punishment is an apporopriate one, infact neither am i putting a case for or against anything here.
with cutie dd sophie (4.5yrs), i find myself having to spank her (and yes its effective). when i spank, i mean around 5/6 slaps on her bare bottom. :eek:

The other day I was talking to my best friend about everthing and we started talking about this and she said i should really spank on the bare butt.
Believe me, when i spank, it is always done in privacy and with my bare hand.
Humiliation is definately not part of my punishemnt, but as a last resort, this what she responds to.

But sorry, back to question, do others also spank on the bare bottom?

Thnx, keep replyin xxx
I would say if spanking a couple times with clothes on helps and she stops acting out then stick with it, if for some reason it stops working, or heaven forbid that someday she turns around and laughs at you then go for bare butt, I am pregnant with my first and am already thinking of ways thay will be used to deal with my child when he/she becomes unruly, if for some reason a time out, or taking stuff away doesn't work I will use a hand slap for hitting/pinching. "taking their hands away" when they are naughty. (hold their hands for a minute. I have seen these ways work on a younger child 1 yr. She occasionally acts up again and is on a time out, she hates being on a time out more than anything ever. when the baby is older I will resort to spanking if necessary. I will not spare the rod and spoil the child. I plan to raise a very well behaved child and will do my best. There are always limits though. Keep that in mind of course lol. Good luck I hope you make a decision based on your feelings and not what everyone says they do or don't do. :wave:
Siren you might want to look into age appropriate behavior for a 2 year old. ALL 2 year olds laugh at you when you get angry with them. You cannot take it personally. It is not a personal attack against you, and they are not being defiant. If you realize that it is normal for a 2 year old to laugh at these times you can disipline without throwing anger into the ordeal. It's really hard to disipline a 2 year old. Time outs just start to work at this age. With painful spanking your child will just behave out of fear. They will not learn to use their own inner controls. They will not learn how to tell right from wrong with out a physical punisher around. Sounds like this level of disipline is so ingrained in your thinking due to your upbringing. You are unable to step away and see alternative approaches to disipline. Consistancy and strict boundaries will work just as well as spanking on the bare bumm. I know many very well behaved children who where never spanked. Their parents did disipline but not with corporal punishment. They were actually very strict but no hitting.
I could never imagine raising my hand to anyone of my boys. I think they deserve the same respect as any one else. If I don't like something my boss,neighbors or friends do I don't hit them Why hit a child? Why bring a life into the world to hit? I'm so grateful to have each and everyone of my children in my life the thought oF anyone hitting or spanking them makes me sick. My boys are 28.25 and 7. So it's not my kids aren't old enough to have tested my parenting skills?
Hitting or spanking???? I understood the difference when I was a child. My son is smart enough to understand too.

By no means am I suggesting that every child needs to be spanked. I have a neice who desolves into tears when you speak to her sharply. She's never needed to be spanked. Sometimes my son doesn't listen (of course, I try verbally telling him to "stop" first) and continues to do what he wants. Then he gets time out. If he will sit in time out, that's the punishment I use. If he fights me and refuses to stay there, I spank him. I don't see that I have another option when he refuses to comply with non corporal forms of discipline. I can't give up and let him off the hook just because he's throwing a fit.

I actually have to discipline him LESS since I started spanking. Of course, as always, spanking (or anytime of negative discipline) have to be offset with praise and rewards for good behavior. I always go by the rule that I need to give him positive reinforcement at least as much as I give him negative consequences, preferably more.

So, I don't spank him every day. (I usually do end up putting him in time out everyday at least once!!!) But I don't spank indescriminately. But when he refuses to comply with time out, he gets a smack on the butt.

He's happy, social, VERY independent, and attached to me and his daddy. He's a confident, well adjusted child.
Hi this subject is very touchy I think. I have to say that this time around I will not be hitting my children. I use to spank my son ( now 19 ) and if I could turn back time I WOULDNT HAVE ! As for a 2 year old, there is no way they would understand why they are getting punished. All they would understand is that mummy is hurting me :( My daughter will be 2 at the end of September and I just wouldnt dream of pulling her nappy off and spanking her bottom. I have given her a tap on the hand once and I wont be doing it again. When my eldest son was a boy he was a VERY difficult child to bring up ( adhd, learning difficulties etc ) and I will tell you now all the spanking in the world did not alter his behaviour. In hindsight I would say it made him worse. I think all spanking does is put fear into a child which I dont think is good. Yes fear is good when it comes to learning about life etc. But not to be frightened of your own parents. Your home and family should be your safe haven and comfort zone where you know you are safe and looked after.
As always the subject of dicipline is very controversial. Siren, let me tell you that i commend you for the parenting you are doing with your child. I so agree with everything you have said. It sounds like we were raised similar and that we also share the same values that were instilled in us by our parents thanks to being diciplined and raised "the old school way". You are also RIGHT ON when you spoke about the statistics of our societies children today as compared to the earlier generations.

I also wanted to make the point about 2 year olds not understanding why they are being diciplined. I must say that IMO that is so very untrue. Parents who believe this i believe is just not giving their 2 year olds enough credit. A two year old child is very intelligent, if a child is taught "no" from an early age they know not to do certain things or touch certain things, Most two year olds have a very large vocabulary as well as many have been taught and know how to use the potty!!!!! Two year old children, regardless how they are diciplined, certainly know what they are being diciplined for.

A good spanking is far from being abuse. Children who are raised in a stable and loving home, who are taught right from wrong at an early age, that are diciplined with a firm hand certainly are NOT living every day being afraid.

Like Siren, myself and my husband too was raised in a loving home with firm and strict dicipline and we were happy, well rounded children who grew up to be respectful and productive people. We are the parents of 5 children ranging in the ages from 18 down to 9. We have raised our children the "old school way" teaching them right from wrong, acceptable and non acceptable behavior from a very young age. Our children always knew that if a spanking was warranted that they would get one, however, with showing the children love and the start of teaching at a very young age our children didnt require very many spankings. I am also very proud to say that besides the "normal" things that children will do, our children have never been in any kind of real serious trouble, as well as my husband and i have recieved so many compliments from different people as to what nice, caring, compassionate, RESPECTFUL and well behaved children we have.

I do feel that unfortunately nowadays there are just so many parents out there who do abuse and neglect their children. The parents are just sooooo wrapped up in their own lives, be it their jobs, relationships, hobbies, you name it, that they dont take the time to give their children the attention, love, and support that these children all so deserve. So many parents dont even have a clue as to what and how their children are doing in school, as well as many kids are left home alone for hours after school because the parents have to work and many of these parents probably would just cringe if they knew what their kids were doing when they arent home.

Like i had said, dicipline is such a controversial issue, however, there is a REAL difference between spanking and abuse. If spanking was abuse then many many parents would be in jail right now. I have a friend who is a Social Worker with Children Services, I have talked with her at great length about their guidelines for child abuse, per Family/Children Services SPANKING ON THE BOTTOM IS NOT WITHIN THEIR GUIDELINES OF ABUSE !

In an earlier post i had mentioned about acquaintences coming over with their ill behaved children. These parents have 3 children, they have shown their children much unconditional love, however, these parents dont believe in spanking. They "talk" to their children and when the children misbehave they "ask" them and say "please" will you behave! Let me tell you, those 3 children are probably 3 of the worse behaved children i have EVER seen!!!!! When these parents would "ask" their children to behave in a pleading pathetic voice that would just totally annoy me and just make me nauseous.
Needless to say, they thankfully dont stop by to visit anymore.
These 3 children are still fairly young, but i'll tell ya, i really hate to even think about the things that they will do or the trouble that they will be into when they get just a little older. It is so very sad when parents allow such bad behavior as it's the children who end up suffering for it later.

I agree that it is terrible when parents do not disipline their children. I just feel that you can disipline your children with out spanking. I have experienced children hitting mine and their moms do not do anything about it. Maybe they say no hitting. But it's from across the room while they are sitting on the couch. My DS just went through a hitting phase that lasted a month. I think that my consistancy and getting down to his level, saying "no hitting", talking about how it hurts, and taking him away from the situation taught him to stop hitting. I did not say please stop hitting while sitting on my butt on the couch. So, just becasue your "friends" do not disipline their children at all, does not mean that their children misbehave because they are not spanked. IMO they could learn to behave with consistant disipline without spanking.

I also feel that each family has to do things that work best for them. If spanking is what you need to do, then thats what you need to do. I do think I am able to express my views. My big issue comes from the bare bumm thing. I think that is humiliating. I could not imagine someone taking off my underwear and spanking me, if I made a mistake or needed to learn something. It gives me the creeps thinking about it. I don't see how a child would feel any better about it.
[QUOTE=valleygurl]A good spanking is far from being abuse. Children who are raised in a stable and loving home, who are taught right from wrong at an early age, that are diciplined with a firm hand certainly are NOT living every day being afraid.[/QUOTE]

My sentiments exactly! As with the point I was making earlier, yes, there were times I feared my parents. But those were ONLY times when I had done deliberately wrong and had very good reason to worry. There is something wrong with a child who doesn't fear his or her parents in this situation. They become the very same people who don't fear the law.
I have a 2 year old almost 3 and I spank her mostly on the bum if she would not ABSOLUTELY listen to me what so ever. I spanked her bare bottom 2 or 3 times. So yeah, it all depends on the child and the parent's view on the morality of it. SOmetimes my daughter gets so out of control, and after trying to talk in a low but stern tone, then yell, then say your going to time out, and she STILL doesn't listen, then I proceed to spank her and THEN she listens. Hey, disciplin is discipline and it's mentioned somewhere in the bibile by the way. I don't believe in spanking as an ultimate solution but when you've tried and tried and they still don't listen then, IMO, a lick or 2 is what works for me! ANd yah, I feel a little bad about it but she listens and like I said it works, cause as we all know, parenting can be VERY stressful expecially at my daughter's age...and also very fun too. :D
I just don't understand how pain can help a child? As far as the old days being better because parents hit there children. I disagree. In the old days it was ok for woman to be hit or slapped around too. I believe most parents today still do hit there children for punishment. I personally feel that hitting a child with there close off is humiliating. And hitting only teaching violence is acceptable. To the parent who said 2 year olds are smatter than people think. I agree. So teaching a little 2 year hitting is ok is a false sense of the real world. When was the last time someone's boss pulled there pants down and "spanked" them, because they made a mistake or didn't listen? I do agree time outs or a firm sounding voice or other punishments work. Also sadly kids become desensitized to spanking too. Hitting a child puts them is a sort of state of shock, so of course it seems to have an affect at first. Just like a cold glass of water in the face etc. I realize this is controversial and I'm not trying to offend anyone. I just want to express my opinion.
The old "spanking teaches hitting" argument can be easily disproven by careful research. In fact, childhood agressivness has been more closely linked to maternal permissiveness than any type of discipline. My son first hit me at the tender age of 15 months, long before I had ever spanked him. Children don't have to be taught to be agressive.

As for not hitting your boss because you have respect for him, that's not much of an argument. You can't put your boss, teachers, or friends in time out, either. No matter what form of discipline we use, we exerting athoritative control over our children. We do this because they are our responsibilty and we know better than they do.

I just get so tired of these psycologists who spew out all this stuff. I've heard EVERYTHING you just said, Fairy, from reading developmental psycologists who are anti spanking. But you know what? I'd read it again, and they never had any proof to back it up. It was all obviously opinion, OR they often use horribly flawed studies that lump abusive hitting and a spanking from loving parents all in one category. This serves to make parents feel guilty and doubt every disciplinary choice they make for their child. I've even read some people who say that any type of punishment, even time-out, is wrong.

As far as "the old days" go, you can't argue with crime statistics. What kills me is that somehow, we have suddenly become the "enlightened" generations. That thousands of years of traditions in parenting, marriage, abstinance, and education have always been wrong and "oh-thank-God-we-discovered-it-now!!!" This is, after all, the new millineum. :rolleyes: We actually believe it, because we have been told it so much for the last 40 years. We are absolutely deluding ourselves, however, because statistics say otherwise. It's the same pseudointellectualism BS (I question everything, therefore I'm an "intellectual" :rolleyes: ) that I got so sick of in college that drives everything nowdays, even discipline choices. And where has it gotten us? Having 10 year old boys hauled off in handcuffs by the cops because they got into a tussle on the playground? In the "Good ol days" a quick paddling and a "don't do it again" would've been plenty. And it would've worked, too. Now kids are bringing guns to school and killing their classmates.
[QUOTE=FairyMagick]I just don't understand how pain can help a child? FairyMagick[/QUOTE]

Pain is the most effective learning tool in all of life. I drank too much once in college and ended up with a horrible hangover. Therefore, I didn't ever drink that much again. Or my son had a tendency to constantly close the doors on his fingers. It hurt, and he cried. Therefore, he learned very quickly how to gently close a door and keep his little fingers out of the way. Human beings don't learn much of anything unless we learn it the hard way.

The difference is, I'm not about to let my son (who has managed to debunk ALL the childproofing in our house) stick an object in an electrical outlet so he will know not to do it again. It's too dangerous. But if he doesn't listen to my warning, I spank him because I want to get the point across that I don't EVER want him doing that again.

He also hits his little sister sometimes (who's only 3 months old) and because she can't defend herself, I have to get the point across. I can't let him do that. Now, if he hits his little friend on the playground who hits him back, I tell him "Don't HIT!!!" but IMO the friend hitting him back will teach him more than ME spanking him.

Mild pain is effective. It doesn't scar us for life. It's a momentary unpleasant physical reaction that is actually our bodies way of telling us that something isn't right and something isn't good for us. That's why we learn so well from it, is because that's what it's there for.

Now, I completely understand the maternal instinct to protect your children. I hate to see my children in pain. But that doesn't mean that I am doing them any kind of service from protecting them all the time from any type of pain. I've seen kids my son's age who's parents have done this, and they are either wildly agressive and impulsive (NO fear of consequences) or whiny, clingy, and afraid to try anything new.

I also wanted to adress the idea that 2 year olds don't know what they are doing wrong. Why else has my son suddenly developed a habit of doing things when I'm not looking? I've even caught him doing things he shouldn't while constantly checking over his shoulder to make sure I'm not coming. Then when I walk back in the room, he will jump up and back from what he is doing. He's even said "No pank!!" before I even said a thing to him about what he was doing.
When he first hit me at 15 months, I always used verbal correction and putting him away from me, explaining how that hurt, and all that. It didn't work at all. I didn't start spanking his diaper until well after 18 months, when he actually got to the point where he was obviously hitting just to get a reaction because he knew it was wrong. He didn't actually stop the hitting until I started spanking him for it! Now he rarely hits.

As for hitting his little sister, when she's old enough to hit back, I'll let her hit back to let that be his teaching tool.
I never got spanked,I never spanked my kids, they don't spank any of their children, I have 5 grandkids. My youngest son is 7 he has never been spanked. Their are families where parents do not resort to spanking. It's not necessary if you have good parenting skills. I hear the same arguments all the time !. I got spanked and I'm fine, Not if you hit your own kids. 2. spanking works! if so why does it not work the first time,or second,or third? If spanking worked you would not have to do it a second time. I can't change your mind but I just feel so bad for those little ones who have no choice but to have Mom do something like that to them. Your son said it all " No Spank " It may not be he fully understands what he did but more he has seen that look on your face before. I don't think you hit all day but one hit is to many.
There have been many many things that have "work" for centuries that we know now are wrong. I wont go in to the details. Something that always made sense to me is something my mother always told me. "Foul language and physical abuse is a feeble mind searching to express its self". Spanking is a quick fix for parents IMO. Of course children hit at a young age they do a lot of things like pull hair too, its immature behavior. They cannot express there full feelings at that age. Or they don't know any better. And no a boss wouldn't give a time out, but he/she could fire or discipline by demoting. Which later on when a child is old enough, they can realize it goes along the lines of a time out. Spanking works for a short time and as soon as the child is used to it, they become desensitized. When a child hurts themselves, it is in no way the same as getting hurt by someone else. They are learning by trial and error. Sticking there finger in a light socket ( hopefully they are covered) or touching something hot is the child exploring there world. They don't need to be hit for touching. Hopefully a parent is there to show them without the child getting hurt. They have to learn things are hot or cold or they need to see cars going by in the street etc. As far as crime. Well over half of people in jail have been physically abuse or sexually abused it is a fact. Pulling a childs pants down and hitting doesn't help teach that there bottom is there "private" parts. I have never heard of anyone saying "I turned out bad because I wasn't spanked".
No body is saying a 2 year old isnt intelligent enough to know right from wrong. My daughter is 21 months old and she DEFINATELY knows she is doing wrong when I say NO ! What people are saying is that a 2 year old would NOT KNOW why they are being spanked. All they know is mummy hurt me :( In my experience as a parent all spanking does is give parents an out for there anger :( I use to get soooooooooooooo frustrated with my oldest son and spanking him gave me some relief of that anger. I wish every day now that I could turn back time :( I never use to beat my son, but when I remember back to certain occasions and the look on his face it just breaks my heart :(
I agree with you haleysmum about spanking being an out for parents. I know you feel bad about spanking your son, but at least you realized it wasn't right. I commend you for that. I also feel that some parents spank because they were spanked, and in a way they don't want to admit there parents were wrong, so by spanking they don't have to face the fact of what there parents did. It just continues as a cycle. Its so sad :(
I agree with spanking. I have a 3 and 4 year old and they get spankings. I hate to do it but I have tried every other thing in the book to keep them under control. I am not going to raise little hellions. If that means spanking their hind end, then so be it. My children always get bragged on and they are the most loving babies.:) And as far as fearing me or my husband (that's out the window). They all the time just come up out of the blue to slap a big wet smoochie on ya and tell you how much they love you. I was spanked many a time by my parents and no I did not really fear them, it was more like I respected them. I have never been in any "big" trouble as alot of my friends were growing up because I knew better and let things go that I knew were wrong. Just IMO, spanking is not wrong or bad as long as it does not go too far.
I agree with spanking.I also agree that it is a stress reliever for parents. Here is why. I agree that spanking is very effective. At a certain age...about 2.5 -3 years old a child[U] does [/U] understand that he or she will be in trouble when they do something wrong. I use spanking with my bare hand (over her clothes) unless she has really tested the limits and then I spank her bare bum. Always, always in private so I don't humiliate her anymore than she is. I rarely speak loud to her in front of others too. If she is acting up, I take her away from the situation and firmly and sternly tell her that I do not like her behavior. If she keeps it up (after all resources have been used) is when she will get the spank...then she will most likely stop her behavior( immediately.) They say spanking teaches a child that hitting is ok and if you are bigger than the other person, hitting is ok as well...I'm sorry, what 2 or 3 or 4 year old expressed that idea? They do these studies on children...watching them and listening....I was spanked as a child and not once in those years did I think to myself "oh, gee, my mom is bigger than I am so its ok for her to hit me." No, I knew that if my mom spanked me, it was because I was doing something wrong.And that was the outcome of my behavior.What does putting a child in the corner do then? would that teach a child that if they do something wrong than they are shamed and nobody wants to look at them so go in the corner? The fact is that any type of punishment used will have some sort of negative reaction. Its humiliating either way you look at it. Whether you are being yelled at, put in the corner, spanked, a young age kids don't like it because it is embarassing.It would be embarassing if we as adults were repremanded in the same manner.Are we forgetting one thing however...a child is a child and they ARE smaller, not as educated, not as wise, they still need the grownups to keep them in line.That is our job.To get them ready to be adults. Shouldn't they learn from their parents loving hand that when they make poor decisions there will be consequences...bad consequences as well the good,and they need to learn how to handle those consequences. In grown up world however, our poor decisions end up in losing a job or getting sent to prison or losing a loved one.These kids these days have virtually no back bone. In the military, they actually get a time out card!Its just my oppinion, but, its the militarys' job to toughen these boys up (and or woman if thats what they choose). Some where along the lines parents lost the right to effectively parent because of the people out there who take discipline too far. Of course there is a HUGE line between disciplining with a spank and letting out frustrations.We all know what that difference is. If you don't you shouldn't be a parent.My daughter knows when she is being fresh. She knows that when I mean business, I mean business. I don't even have to spank her really any more. She knows that If I count to 3 and she isn't following my directions she'll get a time out or a spanking. Some parents can go to far and take their anger out on the child yes, in that case, the parent needs to just walk away from the situation. I have plenty of times gotten to the anger point where I could have slapped the hell out of my dd...but...I won't because I do understand she is an impulsive toddler.I put her in her room and go in the next room and cool off. Usually its only when I am personally having a rotten day...then I know to just turn the other way if she is doing something that annoys the hell out of me.Anyway, The punishment HAS to fit the crime. No ifs ands or buts. And it certainly depends on the age and/or maturity level of the child.
hmm... yup, i was spanked as a child. i thought it sucked, but i showed mom and dad a little more respect after that! only took once for me, and i remember it well.

as far as spanking goes, i think that we spanking parents can agree, it really doesn't take much. just follow through a time or two and i haven't had to spank 'em since. now i count down from ten, and those kids sure do hustle. i say, whatever works, within reason of course. if you can get your kid to follow directions all the time by using a stern tone, good on you, that can not be easy to do!

personally, i refuse to be one of those parents i see in the grocery, begging and pleading, bribing their kids to behave, while the kids are climbing the walls, not listening to their parents, accepting the bribes, then continuing their awful behavior. forget it. i am the parent. it is my job to keep the roof over their heads, get healthy food in their bellies, get them to school prepared and on time, and give them a good start on the life skills they will utilize as they grow up and become productive members of society. a spank will get their attention so that they can stop and pay attention to what i am teaching them. i will not have spoiled brats to send out into the world.

they take lessons, wear nice clothes, have plenty of friends, read tons of books, have an avalanche of art supplies, go on vacations, and they behave themselves beautifully. they are deluged with love and affection constantly. they also know very well who is in charge. i talk to my kids a lot, about right/wrong, truth/lie, rules/consequences, etc. they have never been spanked without plenty of warning, including chances to correct their behavior, and they understand well that there are consequences for inappropriate behavior. now, of course, i mostly send them to the rooms to "think about what they've done" and they have to demonstrate understanding to me before they can come out again.

i am proud to say, no matter what kind of monsters they can be at home, at school and in public, my kids are the picture of perfect... most of the time. *lol* they are still kids!

ps- i think it's been said, but i would never spank my child out of anger. that is not discipline, it's revenge.

pps- a little anecdote for ya: my kids never hit other kids, ever, and they have been spanked. it's been a coupla years, but they remember they don't like it. my brother's kids, 6 and 2yo, never spanked (my brother was beaten by his bio dad), always getting in trouble for hitting other kids. beside the spanking, they are being raised in an almost identical way. now, if my kid continued to hit other kids, he might get a wollup on the backside for it and sent to his room for awhile. next time he thought it would be funny to smack another kid he might remember what it got him and think again. just my opinion.
The "bare bottom" thing. Do you ask her to remove her clothes, or do you take off her pants and then her underware? That seems shocking.

I think of my children asking for privacy on the potty, or perhaps myself explaining "private parts" in accordance with their you know whats and how if we touch those privates...we don't do in PRIVATE. Getting naked from the waist down for a spanking seems a little too...too...much. I read a book about war and it talked about humiliating POWs by making them remove their pants before they were whiped. The idea of the removal of clothes was a psycholigical tool to add to the beatings.

Still..I was spanked-don't spank, but don't think I was emotionaly harmed from it. My brother, however, remembers every spanking and when he was 6 replied to a teacher in detention: Why can't I hit-my mom does!" He hit a boy on the bottom with a library book when he didn't stop calling him names.

I guess no parent will ever know if spankings have a life-long effect on their children until after the spankings are long over.
To answer your question, MI, I don't take his diaper off and spank his bare butt. However, I do administer the smack just below the diaper. On the fleshy part of the upper thigh right where the bottom meets it. (usually at home he's only in a diaper and tshirt. If we are out somewhere, I don't remove any clothing.) I only do this because the he seems to feel nothing through the diaper.

Thinking back, my parents rarely spanked the bare bum. They did, however, use a belt or a paddle so clothing removal was uncessary.

The reason I don't spank through the diaper very often is because I want to be able to get my point across with one lick. I will never spank him more than 3 times (and that's for the WORST offenses, and only through clothes) and if he doesn't care if I spank him through the diaper that's when I start to get angry, especially if he continues the behavior. I don't want to get angry while spanking him, so I've found that one bare skin smack is most effective that way.
I am from the old school and did spank my children. However, when a child is still young enough to be in diapers they are too young to learn from a spanking.

For generations spanking has been used. There are right and wrong ways to spank. Spanking can and will teach a child to hit others, they do not understand why mom or dad can hit them and they cannot hit.

When it is difficult to reason with a child they should be gently removed from whatever they are doing that is wrong, have time out, be firm and consistent. You cannot yak at a kid and then turn your back and allow them to continue doing the same thing just because it is too much trouble to remove them again. Telling them no one time and letting them do it at other times does no good.

The right kind of discpline should start early, not after bad habits have been formed.

Permissiveness is not good either, children do not learn to respect themselves or others. Permissiveness creates little monsters. Those are the ones you see in stores and resturants tearing the place up, disturbing others.

There is a happy medium which disciplines a child, leaves their dignity in tact and they will have respect for you and others. Remember, you are the parent, not your child's playmate. Yes, we play with our children but you know what I mean by that statement.

I have learned a lot since raising my own children. One daughter has a very close bond with each of her 4 children, lots of hugging, loving, etc. but, she has good control and the children are well behaved. She uses a soft but stern voice, gently removes child from the problem, gets them interested in something else. Older ones know when mom speaks in a soft stern voice they had better shape up. The children have never been yelled at or spanked.

On the other hand our son's children are yelled at and spanked, AND they continue doing what they were doing. They get attention in the negative way instead of positive way. Negative attention is not good for the child.

The above is something for the younger generations to think about in raising their children.

Today women have more time to snuggle, cuddle their children than back in the days when we had to wash, starch, iron every piece of outside clothing, cook full course meals, do all housework, all shopping, all yard work. Now days everyone wears wash wrinkled clothes and husbands help out on the home front. Boy, that alone reduces the work load. Yeah! I am enjoying the relaxed way of life of today's generation. No longer a slave to washing machine and ironing board or kitchen stove!
Actually, offkilter, you misquoted me. What I actually said was "I don't WANT to get angry while spanking him...." therefore, I don't allow myself. If the one lick works, I use it. No more after that FOR THAT VERY REASON. If the more swats through the diaper DON'T work, I begin to get angry with him. But I never continue beyond that. I really resent being practically called an abusive mother. He's never had any marks left on him, and he is much more well behaved than many kids I know. He's confident, independent, and an all around happy child. None of you can say you've never gotten angry with your children. Come on now.

My son is very bright, has always been developmentally ahead of his age, but he is also VERY strong willed. As I've said many times before, I've tried other types of discipline and he has learned how to fight me on all of them. He's headstrong, and that's a quality I admire, but also needs to be channeled in a positive direction. For those of you who have children who respond to other types of discipline, that's wonderful for you. But don't judge someone before you've been in their shoes.

And certainly don't go misquoting and twisting intentions for your own judgemental purposes.

And, as someone mentioned before, according to CPS SPANKING ON THE BOTTOM IS NOT ABUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offkilter, you are a better parent than me. Okay, is that better? Does that make you feel better? You raise your kids how you see fit, and I'll raise mine. Meanwhile you can sit back and bask in the glow of the knowledge that you are a better mother. Just please, leave me alone about this now.
Agree to disagree...all children learn in different ways. As long as other techniques have been tried, I think what works should be used.Kids need discipline. If they are not learning from a soft stern voice...the discipline must change. One child might listen better with the soft stern voice. Other children are not so easy and don't listen. My dd being one of them. And I certainly didn't start out hitting! I was very against spanking...thought like all the others. What it does for the child so on and so forth. Then I had kids of my own. I realized that what I had learned in school just didn't make sense to MY reality. And that reality was that I had a dd whos personality was very strong willed. She is very head strong and will do what she wants and whether I said no, stop, or took the item away or diverted her attention in some way, she just wouldn't listen. Believe me I tried every technique known....bought the books, talked to other parents, doctors....sometimes with certain children they need a little more than a good talkin to.Some kids are way more head strong then others. Mine is VERY aggresive by nature.She was even before spanking was introduced to her. WE don't want to "hurt" them, But we do want them to learn. There is only so many things that can be taken away ("out of site, out of mind?"). At some point these kids need it drilled in their little brains that you are the parent you need to listen. Its all in the child and the child personality. God bless you all who have children who will listen and obey to other means of discipline.And please don't use tones in which you try to inflict guilty feelings for doing the best that us "spanking" parents can do.We don't enjoy disciplining our cute adorable toddlers (as devlish as they can be) To those parents who have "difficult" children..hang in what works (within the law *lol*). We all want one thing...To raise productive good adults. (I don't hit my neighbor or boss, do any of you?)
hell ya i spank them. But becareful Im afraid to spank in public because it seems that CPS does not believe in spankin's But you better believe my daughter listens to me real well. Wont listen to grandma. In fact grandmother lectures me about spanking. But if it is effective disapline and your only spanking the bum with your bare hands, I personally do not see the problem here. I also noticed that a lot of childern nowadays that only recieve "time-outs" act up more.
This is a touchy subject but like all things wrong they take time be recognized as such. Parents want to justify what there parents did. That is how violence and other abuse is passed down. I can only hope it becomes illegal some day to hit a child to punish them. Or for any other reason. And no hitting does not make a child better. It gives a parent an out for there lack of a better way to handle there child. Think about it. What is hitting? It is over powering someone with pain. It is a shock and threat. How does that help teach anyone? I do not believe there is a child out there that can not be handled any other way, than having to resort to hitting. There is always something. Why does it have to end in violence? Is it just because doing something else would take more time? To me it raises a red flag that a parent would say hitting is the only way to make my child behave. I would get that child checked out by a DR. It just doesn't seem right. Many parents have the mentality that "I'm the boss" or "because I said so". Yes parents should be respected and they are in charge of there children, but it goes way beyond, "I'm bigger so I will hit your bare bottom to hurt you, now be good".
I have seen parents who hit there children and make a spectacle of themselves in public. Believe me those kids are not well behaved. Because if spanking worked why would they dare act out in public? Its always the screaming kids having a tantrum being hit in public. I have never one time seen a decent looking family hitting there kids. I am not trying to offend anyone here. But everyone knows what I am taking about. It is usually a ratty looking kid half dressed ( not that it is the poor child's fault) with an at there wits end mother that hits there kids in public. It would take a parent to have to admit they were wrong to make them stop hitting there children and they rarely happens sadly. There really isn't anything anyone can say to change or enlighten the apposing side. That is why laws are made. And I am sure the law will catch up in this matter.
i understand that, for some people, this is a really hot topic and gets the emotions all worked up, but i would like to see an acknowledgment of the difference between 'spanking'- a disciplinary swat on the bottom, and 'hitting' a violent motion carried out on any other part of the body.

i do not 'hit' my kids, and i don't spank on a naked butt either, unless it's already naked, like at bathtime and brother and sister have ahold of each other's hair or something like that, but i certainly will spank them, if the occasion warrants.

raising kids is hard enough, having to deal with judgemental, critical parents who seem to think they know all about raising every kid is not helpful, and i was under the impression that this board was s'posed to be here for us to help each other. suggesting another mother 'get help' and 'stop hurting' her child b/c she spanks him?? please. get off your high horse and join the rest of us back here on earth.

spanking is not an 'out' for parents, nor is it a way to justify the abuse suffered at the hands of one's own parents, it is, what psychologists call 'negative reinforcement.' meaning, child does something naughty, is warned. child does it again, is warned, again, is warned, again, gets spanking, action ceases. child has just learned that if said action is repeated that there will be an unpleasant consequence to that action.

but i am a no-nonsense type person, i do not subscribe to the notion that children are delicate little flowers and need to be sheltered from everything unpleasant. children grow up to be adults, and they need to learn a few things, i am here to teach them, but that cannot happen if they are not paying attention, and i won't coddle them, or cajole them into learning the things that they need to in order to survive life in our world. life hurts, disappointments happen, they need to be tough, strong, goal-oriented, and not be crushed by minor setbacks. they also have to be compassionate, gracious, loving, loyal and forgiving. so far, so good, on all counts.

please, fellow parents, let us give each other a break. let us make room in our hearts and minds for other ways of doing things, including disciplining our own kids. if you can get by with a stern tone, good for you, i hope your kids blossom under your careful, loving tutelage. for you spankers, i'm with you, the stern tone thing doesn't always work for me either.

alternatively, i have recently found the joys of a different type of punishment-- WORK! yes, i have gotten sick and tired of picking up clean and dirty clothes off the floor, cleaning pee off the toilet, toothpaste off the sink, collecting toys inside and outside the house, and cleaning paper, pens and crayons from absolutely everywhere. i put my kids, both 6yo, to work!

my house is always a disaster and i can't take it anymore, now they have to help or they don't get to do anything fun, they have to stay in their room all day. works like a charm, but i have to check on them every 10 or so minutes or they will slack off. now my backyard is clean, they picked up all the trash and toys they had strewn about, and their bedroom is spotless. i also make them scoop the poop from the dog! i'm so excited about this, i'll have 'em cleaning their bathroom in no time!

i do reward them, with a trip to the pool, or the movies, or a dollar or whatever. positive and negative reinforcement at the same time, woo! hope everyone has a good weekend, sorry this is so long!
I do not and will not spank on the bare bottom.

I have two girls ages 8 and 5, and disciplining them is as different as they are.

My 8 year old is very effectively desciplined by standing in the corner while I explain to her why she is there and what is expected of her.

My 5 year old, on the other hand, responds very well to a calm but firm voice. I just tell her what she did is unacceptable and explain what is expected of her, and her big hazel eyes just fill up with tears.

Both of my children are very well behaved, and show a tremendous amount of respect for both people and property.

I understand that spanking is a useful disciplinary tool, I just choose not to use it.

I personally think that anyone that's reading this forum is a good parent and has the best intentions for their child. With that, I must state that I [B]strongly[/B] disagree with the posts basicly stating that non-spankers are better parents.

We are here to help one another, share our experiences, and encourage.

Love and respect go a long way.

Willy Shawn
[QUOTE=arock]i understand that, for some people, this is a really hot topic and gets the emotions all worked up, but i would like to see an acknowledgment of the difference between 'spanking'- a disciplinary swat on the bottom, and 'hitting' a violent motion carried out on any other part of the body.

i do not 'hit' my kids, and i don't spank on a naked butt either, unless it's already naked, like at bathtime and brother and sister have ahold of each other's hair or something like that, but i certainly will spank them, if the occasion warrants.

raising kids is hard enough, having to deal with judgemental, critical parents who seem to think they know all about raising every kid is not helpful, and i was under the impression that this board was s'posed to be here for us to help each other. suggesting another mother 'get help' and 'stop hurting' her child b/c she spanks him?? please. get off your high horse and join the rest of us back here on earth.
...............................................................................................................................................![/QUOTE] Just like you i also use the reward system cuz it wouldn't be right to only disapline if they did something wrong and never notice any good they do. my reward system however is stickers. you see my childern are only 2 1 /2 and almost 1 years old. As they get older i will reward them with other things. what does everyone else reward system consist of?
As writen by fairymagic:[[I]To me it raises a red flag that a parent would say hitting is the only way to make my child behave[/I].]

Most parents who use the "spanking" method certainly would not say "its the only way"...

[[I]I have seen parents who hit there children and make a spectacle of themselves in public. Believe me those kids are not well behaved. Because if spanking worked why would they dare act out in public?[/I] ]

All children act out in public at some point. You mean to tell me your kids never acted out in public? Most kids act out in public, not b/c they are spanked at home and they are just bad kids or b/c they are not "decent", but b/c they are TIRED,HUNGRY,SICK,ETC...

[[I]Its always the screaming kids having a tantrum being hit in public. I have never one time seen a decent looking family hitting there kids. I am not trying to offend anyone here. But everyone knows what I am taking about[/I]. ]

"everyone knows what you are talking about?" What? The ratty looking kids who come from low income families?Sounds like to me you are stereo typing people here. So now we are insulting those families who were not fortunate enough to go to college and get themselves a 'decent' job, make a 'decent' income to cloth their ratty, bratty kids?

[[I]It is usually a ratty looking kid half dressed ( not that it is the poor child's fault) with an at there wits end mother that hits there kids in public[/I].]

What you occassionally see out in public is certainly not what takes place in every family who spanks. I know MANY well to do people who were spanked as children who in turn have spanked their children. This is not about economic statis here. The parents who leave the cart in the aisle and take their child out who is in full tantrum.....are you positive that they are not spanking those kids when they get home? Are you certain? Because of those parents who are 'decent'...and whose kids are dressed according to the medias standards...I'm sure those kids get a spanking or two. The reason you DON'T see it in public is because they are more aware of the consequences that there are some medalling people out there who will call DSS on them.Plus, they don't want to embarrass themselves OR their children in front of a few dozen strangers.There goes your theory out the window about "ratty kids" coming from poor folks who can't afford to buy the latest, trendiest clothes. And where do you live that you see so much of this? Must be a low income area? Oh, did I offend you? Like someone else on this board said...."get off your high horse!" :mad: People like you are ignorant to other peoples views and that is why this country will NEVER be equal or stand together....I'm sick of this "Its my way(view) or no way(view)" attitude. I am finished with this thread.
Spanking is used in my house with my daughter and so far its been effective.
I think the first time i ever spanked her for something was when she was 4 (she now 6). I dont find myself having to spank too often nowadays, if she is being rude or not listening to me, then if I feel the situaton is serious enough i will ask her if she is looking for a spanking? :nono:
Usually thats it, she will already change her attitude but otherwise if i have to spank her i will just spank her around 3/4 times with my palm on her bare bottom. I would never do it in front of others though, shes probably already embarrased enough as it is.
And thats it, usually shes then transformed into a little angel (for a while) :angel: !
So yes i do spank bare botttm
Spanking is used in my house with my daughter and so far its been effective.
I think the first time i ever spanked her for something was when she was 4 (she now 6). I dont find myself having to spank too often nowadays, if she is being rude or not listening to me, then if I feel the situaton is serious enough i will ask her if she is looking for a spanking? :nono:
Usually thats it, she will already change her attitude but otherwise if i have to spank her i will just spank her around 3/4 times with my palm on her bare bottom. I would never do it in front of others though, shes probably already embarrased enough as it is.
And thats it, usually shes then transformed into a little angel (for a while) :angel: !
So yes i do spank bare botttm
I believed in spanking (when I did, it was one swat on the bare bum... THAT WAS IT)... and I was cornered by child welfare and police, and told that if I did it again, I would spend life in prison...

Long story short... dauther's father hated me, and wanted custody when she was born, and tried to tell them that I was a doper (all tests came out clean), and that I gave her alcohol to pt her to sleep at night (had her taken away for 5 months without testing - LOOOONG story, ( removed )

Now I have a bad rap with child welfare... if I so as raise an eyebrow at my children, they're on my case!
The old subject creeps up again and i would like to give my views ....YES...we do spank on the bare our 3 kids ages boy5,girl7,boy7 twins we have found that talking serves no purpose as our kids dont take any notice,and we normally have to resort to hand spanking which is done in private so our kids are spanked not in view of each other,this is something we decided on the 1st time we spanked and have stuck to since,all punishment is bare bottom whatever the offence being from 12 on the bare for a minor to 20 on the bare for a medium offence to 15 on the bare with a slipper for a major offence,its effective as my 7 yr old boy[daniel] was spanked with a slip for stealing in january and hasnt been spanked since by either myself or my wife,we may seem harsh to people who dont agree with spanking we havent had to spank now for weeks as our kids are well mannered,polite, helpful,and great to be with,but know where the line is drawn,on holiday at butlins we were congratulated by lots of parents about how well our kids behaved,so we must be doing something right
Please don't hit children, learn ways to parent that don't include hitting. Spanking is taking an object or your hand and striking your child to create shock,fear, remember that sweet baby you swore on the day they were born to love and cherish. Why have children if you hit them? What do your children weigh. 55 to 70 lbs. each 1/2 to 1,4 your weight? 1 to 2 ft shorter then you? your child has not even existed for 5 or 7 years. why hit them? I sorry I will never understand any justification for hitting children. [COLOR=DarkRed]{REMOVED}[/COLOR]

[I][COLOR=DarkRed]{Do not be negative or judgemental towards others. Choose your words carefully. If you can post on a subject in a respectful manner-MOVE ON. Read & follow our rules!}[/COLOR][/I]
I have spanked on the bare butt. It is not to necesarily increase the pain, as many previous posters have said, but to get my point across. I think it is more the sound, than the fact that their butt is bare that bothers them personally. If I were doing it to be just wrong and tormentual there are many other ways I can think of. When my child turns around and says "that didn't hurt" or laughs after I spank him/her, yes I will drop their pants, and show them that I can make it hurt if that is what they would like to have happen. However, I do use spanking on the bare butt, a very last resort. After I have tried time-outs, corners, sentences, room time, taking away privelages/toys, spanking through the clothes, then on to the bare butt I go.
There are alot of people out there with unruly kids, who I think if they would just spank their child just once, the child would realize that they do not have the upper hand all the time, and our society would be alot different these days then it is.
1. there are other ways 2. why would spanking their kids just once make a difference? 3. if you have to only spank once why do parents spank more then once?
I agree with Rouge,Worried Mom,Haley's mom,Fairy Magick,Danimal 15, willy Shawn, dizzygirl. I'm not the best parent in the world but I think I've been a good parent with out spanking, my older boys age 28 father of 4 and my 2nd son age 25, daddy to 1 are both healthy ,happy , and sucessful in life and in marriage. my caboose is 7 and is doing super given all he deals with. I'm just suggesting there are gentler more effective ways of parenting.
I do not spank my kids nor do I plan on ever spanking them. I feel that if you practice constant discipline from day 1 the kids will respond to just words and other forms of punishment and not need to be spanked. I WAS spanked as a kid. Not often, but probably a dozen times, including getting slapped across the face a few times as a teen. I never understood how my parents could hit me and feel OK about it. It was always done in a fit of anger and over something that was pretty harmless, like swallowing a penny, or as a teen, arguing. Being spanked didn't teach me not to do dumb things or to be more respectful, it taught me to be afraid of my parents. I don't want my kids to be afraid of me.
You can teach a child to be well behaved and instill morals and dicipline without resorting to spanking..i mean if a child was doing something that was going to harm them in a serious manner..then a slap onthe hand and a firm No should surfice....but we are not raising animals here..children are smarter than some parents make them out to be..they understand..but to them they are learning.."if i do this what will happen?""Let me see".....take away thier fav. toy....sit them on their bed for a couple of minutes in thier room with the door wonders for's consistancy...some parents get frustrated when the child don't learn from square one..thats when the spanking comes in...and that really instills fear rather than respect from the want respect from your child rather than fear of your hand....and why bare bottom? me...just my opinion..sorry if i offend anyone..but thats reminds me when a dog gets a whap on the nose for being bad,,,but children are more intellectual than an animal and can remember..i dont want my children going to bed thinking about mommy or daddy hitting them on thier bare bums...i would like to think about what they did wrong and what the concequence of thier actions will be,,,no more toys..time out by themselves....i think spanking is a venting process for parents when children act up....bare bottomed...i use the 1-2-3 method...i start at 1 when the first thing is done wrong...i gets to 2 when it is done again..but rarely do i have to go to 3 anymore..because she knows when mom reaches 3 it is time out..even when friends are over..she will go to her room and friends got to go took about 2 weeks and she caught on son is just 2 1/2 months old and he will be diciplined this way takes patience..time..and energy but it DOES takes time on both parent and childs part..but u will earn respect from your child eventually...and to the poster who said that they would tell the parents of unruly children to leave thier can you judge another parent because their children are not behaved..these children will learn eventually..they wont grow up hard tickets...some do..mind u...but kids r kids...if u believe that yelling and spanking a child is beneficial to them..its dont judge an apple before its picked :nono:

Take Care

:bouncing: DazedandConfused :bouncing:
Dazed and Confused~ Aren't you being a hippocrate? You stated in your post: "[I]how can you judge another parent because their children are not behaved..these children will learn eventually..they wont grow up hard tickets...some do..mind u...but kids r kids...if u believe that yelling and spanking a child is beneficial to them..its dont judge an apple before its picked " [/I] How about having a conversation about something serious without comparing humans with animals? They are two very different topics here. I'm pretty sure we are not talking to parents who are using spanking in excess here. I'm sure they are not treating their children like animals. What would the difference be between a swat on the hand verses a swat on the bum anyway? (whether its bare bum or not) A swat is a it not? Like everyone has been stating on this thread...They do what works "miracles" for them. Whats good for you IS NOT good for someone else. I also wouldn't assume that us spanking parents are taking out our frustrations out on our kids. Not to say it doesn't happen and in that case I believe it is wrong to strike a child out of pure anger. Were its your right to have an oppinion, I am tired of people saying that kids who are spanked grow up "In Fear" of their parents.Or they are not respectful or become violent themselves. This thread is not about "abuse" this thread is about giving swats on the bum. Or the hand. Which I don't see the difference. Hand,bum,hand...the kid is going to feel a sting no matter what right? Its great that you can use the 1-2-3 method. Somedays that works for my nearly 3 year old. Some days not. When my dd is completly out of her mind running around like a lunatic...a good swat on the bum brings her back down to Earth. My dd is VERY intelligent. She loves me and daddy very much. We give her just as much praise for good behavior then we do bad behavior. We follow through with our punishments. We talk with her about her behavior(in sentences fit for her age, intelligence,mood) Discipline is constantly changing. In my house, the same punishment does not work well all the time. In your house it might. And no you did not offend me but your words...and I hope no one else was offended. Because we are all trying to do the same thing, at least on this thread...raise our children the best way we can.Most of these parents I'm sure don't just give their kids a smack and don't explain why they are getting in trouble. Spanking is a form of discipline and to be used in the right way. I can give some examples of how time outs in a corner can go bad if done in an extreme way. Abuse is abuse. A swat is a swat and there is a FINE line between the two. This thread is not to make anyone feel bad about their parenting skills..its to comfort and lend an unbiased ear. All forms of discipline take time, energy and patience...if they are doing it right. You may not have meant to sound judgmental but you did.I know I come here for advice or to learn other methods that are not very the one in the post before yours...Pushups...thats really cute...and healthy...for the age appropriate child. We should be swapping ideas not telling each other how our kids are going to grow up messed up because they got spanked. Or they go to bed sad because mommy or daddy hit them...I don't want to sound rude...but, you really have no idea what is going on in these parents worlds to be making claims such as you did..." If you believe yellin and spanking a child is benneficial to a child...its not?...Like you said: Don't judge an apple before its picked. Oh and one more thing, I was spanked as a child, i was also put into the corner an awful lot...but, all my mom ever did was yell..she never praised me.Or paid any mind to me otherwise.THAT is why i feared her and have no respect for her today. She never wanted me around. With my dd I praise over the smallest things, I acknowledge her when she remembers on her own the right way to behave. I give her my undivided attention. She is very polite and I recieve praise myself from strangers on the street over how well behaved she is.Believe me she has her major toddler moments...shes a kid. I am completly confident that she will turn out to be a very responsible,open minded and caring adult who respects me.
Miss T...u took me out of context..i never meant that parents here are treating thier children as animals..and they use thier dicipline as they see fit...i never did say they were abusing thier children at all...i expressed my viewpoint on the spanking issue..if u took me that way..then thats all i can do..i was just expressing my opinion..especially when most parents here are saying they use spanking as a last resort because nothing else worked...i never said your child or anyones child will grow up messed up...but i still do believe it instills fear in a child..thats why I dont want to do it..but like i said "i mean if a child was doing something that was going to harm them in a serious manner..then a slap on the hand and a firm No should surfice"....and i did not mean a slap was gonna hurt them on the hand...oh my you said "I come here for advice or to learn other methods"...i gave mine..u took offense.....i never did say u or anyone was abusing thier child nor would i assume it..i dont see anything that goes on in thier homes.....but if u feel so offended for using spanking,,,like it seems u are..then it is you not me....i was talking about spanking...such as for example....bare bottomed with belt...hard with hand....i just believe..and everyone is putting in thier 2 cents here....that if it hurts a child then there is no dont need to get mad about is just my opinion...this is a touchy subject..and we live in a society today that believes other methods work than the "old school" ones do...and people are looking for other you said you were....for example..when my mother was growing up she told me that in school one day she was talking to another girl in class while the teacher..well nun...was speaking..and she was caught and the nun banged her head against the pole that was in the classroom...she went home and told her mother and her mother said you probably deserved it...things changed since then..back then things like that were allowed...they used to get whipped on the hand for dicipline in class and at home...and my mom always told me she wanted different for me and she never nor my father had to resort to spanking while me and my sisters were growing up......and i do know that spanking works..thats why it had been used so long...but i just am looking for diff. methods to teach my children....without resorting to spanking....if you read the posts from the beginning there are other parents that feel the same way as i opinion is not to hurt anyones feelings at all....thats the last thing i would want to do..but if a subject like spanking is going to posted there are going to be replies that everyone is not going to agree is a touchy subject in itself...but i do apologize to you and everyone else who felt the same way as you..i am deeply sorry..i know you love you child and your child loves you..parenting is hard...just being a good parent should be is the hardest job in the world ;) .....but again i am time i will choose my wording better...

Take Care

:bouncing: DazedandConfused :bouncing:
Dazedandconfused~ I must admit that I was having an incredibly horrible day yesterday with my dd.There is no excuse for my lashing out directly towards just so happened that I read your post first and you know the rest. I do appologize in the most sincere way. My dd has been testing me BIG time lately and I used you as an outlet.Again very sorry. Believe me, I completly understand the reasoning behind a parent who chooses to keep spanking out of their disciplinary methods. I myself would like to use other means...but my dd can really be a handful.Not in a bad way, she is just ALOT of work. She has more energy than any kid I have ever known.Shes the energizer bunny for godsakes. You didn't offend me, really. You were just stating your oppinion and I respect that. I should have kept my frustrations out of the post. I sounded pretty much like a hippocrite myself...I hope I didn't make you feel uncomfortable about coming to this thread (or anyone else for that matter) Please, forgive my out burst and lets continue to have a respectful conversation. :D
Yes, we do spank. It can be challenging to spank boys when they wear jeans all the time, so I've found that if 'bare bottom' is 'called for', dropping the jeans but keeping the underwear up is just as effective and doesn't send any mixed signals about the privates or modesty, etc.

For those who think other forms of punishment should be used - have any of you bothered to ask the kids? Mine would rather have a spanking - get it over with and get on with life - than to be grounded for X amt. of time.

I know it's wierd, but to me a 'swat' isn't much - it causes so little pain that the child doesn't even come close to crying - but can still get a message across. This is usually
'spur of the moment' such as when the 2 yr. old stands up in the tub (we have a 'no standing rule in the tub for safty reasons - don't need someone slipping, falling & getting hurt), I set him down and say 'you sit down', he gets up, I say 'no - you sit down and stay sitting down', he gets up, I swat his bare bottom once and say 'sit down', he sits down on his own and doesn't get up again. Or when he's reaching for grandma's crystal candle holder on their livingroom coffee table - I move his hand and tell him 'no - don't touch', he tries again, I snap his hand and say 'no', he moves hand and doesn't try again. Honestly - does anyone who does NOT 'spank' have a 2 yr. old that knows to leave certain things alone that are within his reach?! And DOES leave them alone?
A 'spanking' is more serious and we use a thin paddle only on the butt. By the time they're old enough for an official 'spanking', they know exactly why they're getting one. You deliberately disobey or tell a lie, you get as many swats as how old you are. Obviously, the older they get, the fewer 'spankings' are needed.

My parents are of the 'very old school' - my dad has said to me many times 'if it doesn't work, get a bigger stick'. He believes in spanking for any and every offence. On the other hand, we reserve spankings for deliberate disobediance and lying. Other 'offences' are handled in other, more creative ways by finding an appropriate consequence. You complain about dinner - you get an extra helping. You don't finish dinner - you get it for breakfast. You complain about doing dishes - you do them tomorrow, too. You want to be hyper in the house - you get to go out and run around the house X amt. of times, even if it's dark and only 10 degrees outside. You yell and wake brother from his nap - you whisper the rest of the day. You want to pitch a fit (temper tantrum - stomp feet, shake around, etc.) - you stand in front of me and stomp your feet (or do whatever you were doing) till I tell you to stop. (That one's VERY effective!) You stick your tongue out at someone - you stand in front of me and keep it out till I tell you to stop. You want to ruin something of your brother's - you get to make restitution. You take something from a store or friends house - you take it and give it back to a person there. I call you, you don't come, and I have to come get you - I don't talk, just pinch some hair and pull gently yet firmly enough that they gladly follow. (No - I've never pulled any out - and NEVER pull ears - that can be damaging.) Just this morning son #4 wouldn't share the sandbox with son #5 - fine . . . son #4 gets no more sandbox the rest of the day. I guess what I'm saying is that the consequence needs to fit the 'crime' for best effect. After all, that's what real life is all about. If you just have 'time out' for everything, it's really no more effective than spanking for everything.
missTee - I don't have any cut and dried answers for you because as you know, our kids are just as different as we all are! I'll try to give a few suggestions that you could try, or not, as you see fit.

1- my #4 son went through a stage I call 'parental emotional blackmail'. Breakfast or dinner would about to be served (sometimes we'd already be eating), something (didn't much matter what) would happen that he didn't like, and he would say 'I'm not going to eat!' (or 'I'm done' - he know he's to finish his plate) Well, all us parents want our children to get good nutritious meals, and he really was hungry, and it took me a little bit to figure out what was going on. At first I'd say 'Yes, you're going to eat - sit down & eat!' or 'No, you're going to finish'. Well, it didn't get better and he started to do it more often so . . . next time he said 'I'm not going to eat!' I said 'OK'. Then at eating time he expected to eat - I reminded him that he said he wasn't going to eat, so he wasn't going to eat! I think it took 3 or 4 times before he stopped doing it!
Now, depending on what your DD is telling you she's 'gonna do' - somehow make it possible for her to do it - with consequences that she WON'T like at all. We don't give credit to how tough kids can be. Going without a meal a couple times isn't going to 'hurt' my son . . . but he's not getting the response he was hoping to get! [B]The real trick to stopping bad behavior is to give them the OPPOSITE of what they want.[/B] And sometimes what they say they want isn't what they REALLY want.

2- The younger the child, the more immediate and quick the 'consequence' must be. Times out and taking away toys never worked with my kids at that age. They don't make the connection between the bad behavior and the consequence as well. (Then again, mine are all boys and they DO mature a bit slower.) I can confidently say that none of my 5 kids has pitched a fit in a store (yet! ;) ) My 2 yr. old has started pitching fits just this week, and he gets a quick 2 swats each time with a very serious 'No! We don't do this. No temper tantrums!' So he's learning three things: I get something I don't want (swats) when I do this - we're not supposed to do this - this is called a temper tantrum. It's much easier to stop it before it snowballs! (At that age, the stomping thing doesn't work of course. As they get older, though, there will be a time where they test the boundaries and that's when the stomping works wonders!)

3- Whining! Oh how I hate whining, and yes, my younger kids do whine. I have something that *seems* to work - but I'll be the first to admit that I'm not consistant with it.
When they whine, simply tell them that you cannot understand what they're saying when they whine, so they'll have to stop whining to talk to you. They may not quite understand when you tell them this, so give them an example. Say something to them in a whine-y voice with your face all screwed up (you know, like they do) and make sure you say your words so they can't quite understand you. (Who says moms can't have a little fun - just watch her face!) Then look at them and say 'See? That's what it's like when you whine!' The trick to this is that you really have to pretend that you don't know what they're saying when they whine!

As for how she treats baby brother - unfortunately, that can be serious because you understandably don't want him hurt. First off, is it possible that she could be jealous? It's so easy for us mothers to spend more time with the baby - especially when the others are acting in a way we don't like! I'd say that the best thing to do is to get her involved with him in a [B]positive [/B] way. Gotta change his diaper? Have her 'help brother' by bringing you the fresh diaper and wet ones (if needed). If you're not going anywhere, let her 'help brother' by picking out his clothes for the day (or give her a choice between thing one & thing two). Speaking of thing one & thing two - is your son still breastfeeding or on a bottle? If so, that's a great time to read your DD a book - that way you're spending time with her at the same time as brother. Do you ever let her hold him? (Helping her, of course.) Do you let them take a bath together? That's a great way to 'help brother' while having fun! (You'll have to sit there and supervise EVERY minute.) The challenging thing is to teach her that she can't handle him like she may handle her dolls or other toys! :) My oldest son recently got a ferret and the 2 yr. old is learning how he has to 'Be gentle!' with it. He's learning not to squeeze it or drop it or put things on it to smoosh it . . .

A lot of undesireable behavior can also be eliminated by keeping her busy (with you!) and making her feel needed. Have her 'help' you with things that need done around the house. If you keep her 'busy' with you, she won't have as much time to mess with little brother! After all, why would she want to do that when she's such a 'big helper'!? You could easily teach her how to fold the washcloths & dishrags while you fold clothes (I know 'cause my 2yr. old does it - and it was his idea!) - or even to sort the socks (today put your socks together, mama's together & papa's together . . . next time have her do it by color . . . etc.), remember - little ones like to sort things and it's also a good mental exercise. When it's time to eat, give her the silverware and show her how to put them in the proper places on the table. Make up a batch of cookies with her (from scratch :) ) and let her stir it and snack on the dough. When she helps out like this, praise her - tell her things like 'Wow! Look at what you did!' - 'My, you're such a good helper!' - 'I knew you could do it!' - 'That's good!' - 'I'm so lucky to have such a good helper!' A little praise goes a long way, and she'll learn to like it! You want her to WANT to please you - all kids would rather have positive attention rather than negative attention, but if they don't get the positive, they'll settle for the negative.

Personally, I would combine these types of positive things with a small spanking (no bare bum) if she intentionally 'shoves, pushes, pulls down, squeezes etc' her brother. She definately needs to learn NOT to 'hurt' him like that - for [B]his safty[/B]! At this point I'm sure she KNOWS she's not supposed to and is doing it anyway - deliberate disobedience. Tell her calmly and seriously ahead of time what the consequence will be: '_____, if you hurt brother, mama will give you 3 swats with the paddle - and I will not give you any more warnings!' :nono: Next time she does it (and she will), comfort brother if needed, and calmly tell her 'Mama told you that you would get 3 swats if you did that, and you did it, so now I have to give you a spanking.' Don't yell, just talk to her in a matter-of-fact, 'that's the way it is' way. Be prepared, though (us parents can be really big suckers for this one) - a common thing with my kids - they'll say 'but mama - I forgot!' (Occasionally this is the case, but most of the time it's not - ESPECIALLY with something like this where they know good & well they're not supposed to do a particular thing.) If it's a GENUINE 'forgot', then they get grace and no spanking that time - next time (and there will be!) it's a spanking. If it's NOT a genuine 'forgot' (which is probably 9 times out of 10) my response is 'Well, the spanking will help you not to forget next time!' If you do this and [B]stick with it[/B], you won't have to yell and scream.

One thing, though. The spankings will NOT be as effective unless you ALSO do the positive things.

I hope this helps. I know I'm quite long-winded - hope you didn't mind!

Chickboo~ You made perfect sense to me. Alot of what you spoke about I already do. For instance, keeping her included in the things I do. She LOVES making eggs for breakfast. She cracks them, plops them in, stirs them up and everything (but the cooking part of course!) She helps with the baby's bath. Her job is to wash his hair. The green eyed monster has come out to play however. Only since he has been old enough to start grabbing her toys and wanting to play with everything she is playing with (or not playing with) But, I certainly involve her in just about everything I do. ( I am a stay at home mom for the most part and work as a phlebotomist for extra cash)
I too am a loather of whinning. I give it right back. I tell her exactly what you say; I don't talk to people who whine, I can't understand what you say, talk to me like a big girl not a baby. She always stops. That is one thing I am consistent with. But the whole spanking thing when it comes to her hitting her brother, although I am a firm believer in spanking...I can't help but feel like a hippocrate when swatting her after she just got done swatting her brother. I just don't think there is any form of punishment that quite tells means this...I don't like to get hit so I'll stop hitting. I'll admit that she has been pretty good about keeping her hands (and feet) off of him. I suppose its because when I see her misbehaving with her brother I tell her that she has to get me if hes doing something (anything) that she doesn't like..instead of handling it herself with her hands. At least until she is old enough to learn how to take care of things on her own (the right way) Which is why I tell her that she has to call my name...if she calls my name I show her the right thing to do. Which she does sometimes remember to do. If it keeps up she gets sent to her room and after that its the does end after that...but in an hour she is up to her old behavior again.When she is old enough I will certainly try some of your methods well as some that my husband had to do when he was younger. For instance his mother used to have him write out a report. On whatever topic she gave him (and siblings)At a younger age it was sentences and as they got older the sentances turned into paragraphs and so on. They hated it...I plan on using that one.
SO far it seems as though she might be catching on to this whole hitting brother thing, because she hasn't done it quite as often in the last few days. And for awhile it looked as if her terrible twos were coming back in full swing, but that ended quickly. My dd has not pulled any out of home, in public tantrums (yet). She actually behaves very good outside and I am constantly getting praised for "How well-behaved my dd is" I laugh and say...Who? This kid? I don't know who this is...what happened to my real daughter LOL....I look at it this long as my kids can behave outside then they are hearing me when I yell inside...they know how to behave. I think kids get a cheap thrill out of driving us crazy...ooh, sort of how we used to drive our parents crazy when we were growing up?! LOLThanks for all the advice. really appreciate it. Us moms got to stick together...We're our only hope to salvation at times...most of the time the hubby doesn't quite understands why I am pulling my hair out by the end of the and can't WAIT for bedtime! LOL
Hey everyone:)

I think this thread is getting a lil out of hand.....people dicipline their children the way they feel right to....and i am sure no one here is gonna deliberatly hurt thier child...its ok to offer help...and i am in the wrong 2 cause i am against spanking..thats my choice..and i used my wording in the wrong manner in a previous post on this thread..and to that i apologize :angel: .....i dont think no one is starving...beating..etc..thier is just hard to explain sometimes on posts....instead of critizing other posters...if u read something that offends u..just this what u mean?..or i dont agree but......every parent is different..if thier was an exact set of rules to follow to parenting..people be having kids left right and center..lets just give each other some slack..hey?...but one thing we all can agree upon is that parenting is never easy no matter how experienced a parent u are :confused: ....we all love our kids thats the main thing..we are all after the same can we make raising our kids easier?...and u know what i says..and what my mother always tells me.." you thinks its hard now..wait till they becomes teenagers!!".....i dont wanna think about that one!!lolhahahahaha :p .....i thinks raise them as you thinks its them..give them respect(even when it seems like they dont care) and in the end they will appreciate you:)..k i thinks thats y'all round'

Take care everyone

:bouncing: Dazedandconfused :bouncing:
[COLOR=RoyalBlue] ;) Just an update on how things are 3 year old dd has been doing much better lately. Her stages spring up on me so fast, but they are also fast to leave. She has done VERY well not hitting her brother. When she gets angry with him now, she looks at me and tells me that he is bothering her. Sometimes she might 'raise' her hand then look at me and stop herself...of course I praise her for doing a great job trying to keep her temper with him. She hasn't had many mean tantrums lately. She tested me for awhile, but she knows I will not tolerate that sort of behavior. I had been feeling guilty about swatting her for hitting. Thinking I might sound like a hippocrate, but she understands the difference. I realize that now. She knows that if I am spanking her and explaining to her why she needs to listen to me, she gets it that her hitting is not ok,that I am doing it to end her bad behavior.If she didn't know this, she wouldn't look at me when she feels the urge to hit. She knows what the consequence will be and she stops. Thats what I believe spanking is...its a consequence...a undesirable consequence that says loudly : " I need to stop and think about what I am about to do." So, things are looking up at the moment.Even with her new thing, which is to be 'sad'. At her 3rd b'day party over the weekend, she, out of no where, had this look of saddness. She didn't want any of the kids playing with her toys and didn't want them in her room. But she didn't throw a fit, she just got quiet and sad....something new. So this is the new skill I must teach her. Sharing.....Anyone have thoughts on this. I tell her that its nice to share and if she wants to have friends, she'll need to learn to share her toys sometimes. I think sharing will be tough....sorry, maybe I'll start a new thread about this so I'm not taking up any space.... :D [/COLOR]
:wave: Hi, just wanted to give my view on a subject that seems to have got to a heated stage where we seem to be disagreeing with each others view instead of accepting some people have a different way of dealing with discipline problems,i myself agree with a spanking policy for all act of naughtiness,im not saying im right and im not saying if you dont spank that your wrong id just like my opinion to be respected the same as id respect yours if you dont spank and would listen to your views on what you do if your kids are naughty
lets not criticise because we dont agree with each other out of respect :)
I came on here because I am going to be a mommy soon, and was looking for some info when I came across this.

I was spanked as a child and I WILL spank when it comes to my children. I thank my parents for raising me the way they did. My grandpa spanked me, I remember when I was younger, once when I was real bad he made me walk out to the peach tree behind the house and pick a stick to be spanked with. By the time I got in the house I was so sorry for what I had done (walking into an orchard from the house is a long way to think :) ) that he looked at me, sat me down and talked with me and that was that.

My husband was spanked as a child also. He's actually the one that brought it up one day. He was asking me how I planned on punishing my son. If verbal isn't enough, then spanking is next in line, plain and simple. IMO there is nothing wrong with spanking. I feel that the parents who take it farther than it needs be, then there is a problem. A smack on the bum followed with a good reprimand when it's called for is all you need.

I felt really depressed reading some back posts, some parents are taking this way out of context. Spanking done right is NOT abusive hitting. So if you don't agree with it, look the other way.
[QUOTE=valleygurl]Kathy, You better believe that i spank the bare bum!!!!! I am very much old school when it comes to diciplining my children! I am a true believer of the
" spare the rod and spoil the child ". I have had acquaintanences (sp?) stop by the house with their children who were acting like total animals while the whole time the parents are ASKING the children to please behave!!!!! These parents will ask the children over and over and over, then even be trying to make deals with rewards to the children if they behave! Of course while all this is going on the children arent letting up one bit!

I'll tell ya, to sit and listen to that crap just totally disgusts me! It will escalate to a point that i finally tell them that they need to take their children and leave. I know that it makes them mad but i dont care. I have 5 children of my own and i dont tolerate them to act that way nor would i expect to take them to someone elses home and them to display bad behavior.

I know that dicipline is very much so a controversial issue. This subject can turn very quickly into many heated conversations. I just know what has worked with my children, (boy 18, girl 18, girls 13 and 12, boy 9) I must say that my husband nor I have had to spank the children very often at all and my oldest boy has been quite a challenge to raise as he has ADHD. I just feel that you can give unconditional love, support, and even spoil the child without sparing the rod so to speak. If you teach your child/children from birth right from wrong and what is acceptable and not acceptable behavior
a parent shouldnt have a problem raising well behaved, well manored children that will grow up to be respectful and productive adults. :)

This is just my experience and my 2 cents worth!

Just for the record, the "spare the rod, spoil the child" verse does not condone physical punishment. This is so misunderstood. This verse refers to the shepherds who would tend their sheep with a rod. They used the rod to guide their sheep, not hit them with it if they strayed out of line!

I'm all for discipline and teaching children the right way to behave. I just wish people would think rather than use that verse to condone spanking.

I have always thought that the phrase "spare the rod and spoil the child" was an instruction! That you [B]should[/B] spare the rod (no spanking) and spoil your child (with kindness). Guess I was wrong.

That being said, I managed to raise two children without ever once hitting either of them. My mother-in-law (who didn't like me from the get-go) actually said to a mutual acquaintance that my kids were the only kids who behaved properly when they visited - sat quietly with a book or crayons, didn't touch other people's stuff, ate what was served or politely declined, etc.

I feel sad to know that other people find it necessary to hurt and humiliate their children. Can't they just develop "the look"? (which still halts my 30-year-old in her tracks)
I dont have any problem at all with what people use as discipline for their own children,as long as it is not abuse.I fail to see why some other's would not feel this same way.Of course i realize some feel a spanking is abuse, that nobody can change.I just think good parents try their best and do what they believe to be the right thing for each situation.What may be the right thing for my own kids may not be the right thing for someone else's.

I think it's great when we can share discipline idea's ,without judging,if I do not agree with another person's advice I simply just do not take the advice.
By the way I have seen some really good ideas for discipline in some of the posts...chickbee some of the ones you mentioned seem very useful and humorous as well .....thanks
hey fifi
sounds like you have very well behaved kids thats wonderful.I have good kids also,although I will spank their bottoms if I feel its warrented which is also rarely.I do no believe it is has effected my kids in a negative way whatsoever.Spanking is far from the only discipline my hubby and I use.I tend to get pretty creative with discipline and sometimes yes other things work better then spanking.Although we do not agree about spanking well I can agree to disagree with you and I believe we both love our kids with all our hearts :)
Of course we have things like that here fifi.Anyway, when I have spanked my kids rear ends they know before hand why it is gonna happen.My kids also do not feel they have been treated wrongly they realize when they break the rules they will be punished wether it be a spanking or some other way but there will be conseqeunces.They also know they are very loved and I am here for all their needs.My kids are far from perfect and I never expect them to be near perfect they are to be kids.All we can do is our best and hope that at least some will stick with them so they can make good choices in the future.I have nothing at all against parenting classes I have never taken any,but I have accepted good wisdom from others who have raised their children and I do check out things online.

I too was spanked as a child it would of worked great IMHO had I not been verbally abused.There are MUCH harsher punishments out there then a few swats on the rearend and some there is no physical contact whatsoever

so please stop telling parents who spank that they do not love or go the distance for their kids (that is basicaly what is being said here) pure bologna
Sadly yesterday we had to spank all 3 of our kids due to theft from my wifes purse which was found in the twins bedroom,the twins blamed each other and the youngest,the youngest said it wasnt him and blamed the twins saying it was in there bedroom
we decided to ground them all for 1 week but told them if the one who took it owned up we would listen to the reason why before deciding on a punishment,thus the other 2 would be ungrounded and for being honest we would just punish the offender and there would be no grounding,but no-one came forward to own up,they just said it wasnt them
at this point they grounding went up to 2 weeks and they all went to there rooms
we knew we had to do something so after ringing family and friends was advised that a spanking had to be given to all then double the grounding
all 3 were advised that a servere slippering was going to be given to all of them unless the thief owned up and once the punishment started it would be finished even if the offender said it was them,again no-one owned up
my wife took the youngest into the room and after taking his pants down and putting him over her knee she spanked his bare bottom very hard
i took our 8 yr old son into the kitchen after telling our daughter to stand in the hallway and wait,and spanked his bare bottom over my knee until it was red raw,by the time i had finished with our son my wife was spanking our daughter as our youngest was screaming in his bedroom
when all 3 had been serverely spanked and in there bedrooms crying loudly we tried to reflect the further punishment of grounding and decided that a 1 month grounding in the house,no treats for 1 week,2 parties they were due to go to in feb cancelled,the monthly trip to the cinema cancelled,all of these subject to the 1 who did it owning up
at bedtime last night the twins settled down in bed and the youngest after being in bed 1 hr came downstairs and asked if he could tell us why he took it ,he then told us that a new friend had told him if he wanted to keep playing with him he had to give him some money,we complimented him for owning up and told him that we would think about his further punishment if any and let him know later
this morning at breakfast we told the kids that they were all let off grounding, a 1 week no treat ban was still in force,the youngest was banned from the 1st party but could go to the 2nd the twins could go to both,the monthly cinema trip was still in force but we would monitor it weekly depending on if they were good
the youngest is to be subjected every other day for a week to a spanking so he never does this again without telling us 1st
the child who told him to do it,we spoke to his mother this morning who assured us that he would get a servere spanking when he got home from school and my wife is to go to the house to confront him about it incase he denies it
this evening our youngest will be given his 1st spanking,i hope he learns?
:wave: Spanking is the only way we can get our sons attention. We have tried corner, grounding, taking away every thing in his room, taking away his favorite things, and when he is good we give great rewords and hope that he will continue to be good. But the thing that that works best for him is a good old fashion spanking, and the second thing is not giving him any attention what so ever he hates that to. But if it wasnít for spankings at 9 my son would have definitely caused some serous problems. Not just that I got some pretty good spankings in my life and I turned out pretty good, and then there are my to brothers who didnít get spanked that often and now at the age of 21 and 22 they have both already been in jail, done drugs, not have a job and have my mom support them. So no thereís is nothing wrong with a good spanking on the bare butt. :bouncing:
First of all, i just want to point out that the quote "Spare the rod, spoil the child" has been taking verym uch out of context. The rod they are referring to is disipline. Not a stick or a hand. It should be quoted "Spare the disipline, spoil the child". I think we can all agree to that.

I am expecting my first child, but i decided years ago that i would do my best to find alternate means of disipline for my children. I was never spanked as a child, and dont think it is always neccessary.

On that note, i also do not consider spanking the same as hitting. Spanking is a form of punishment, and if done correctly, should not truly inflict pain. Hitting, to me, sounds as something done in resource; a result of anger. I dont think most of these mothers would ever hit their child, but spanking is very different.

I also do not think that we can say that the U.K. is further advanced than the U.S. It seems to me that when they discover something it is immediatly put into place, whereas in America we choose to do more research before accepting something as fact. There are no scientific findings to date that suggest that spanking is harmful to a child. As well, there are no scientific findings to suggest that other forms of disipline are better.

However, there are findings that say that aggression is always learned. So a 2 year old that hits someone else learned that act from someone else. Of course, it could have learned hitting from tv, parents, friends, or a multitude or other places.

Every child is different, and responds to different forms of disipline. My mother ran a small child care for a few years when i was young. Time-outs worked for 5 of the 7 children. The other 2 were brothers, and just didnt respond to it.
i feel like i need to put my two cents in here. I do not agree with spanking. I feel that it is the same thing as hitting a child. What is the difference if you hit them on the bum or the face or the arm? hitting is hitting and i could never see a situation where hitting a child that can not defend themselves is ok. i am a parent and a step parent and run a daycare and yes i agree not all punishments work the same for all children but there is always something other than hitting that works. spanking is hitting it is just called a different name. If someone hit a child across the face and called it a love tap does that make it ok? children are people inside little bodies. It would not be ok if your boss at work didnt like the job you did so he swated you across the bum. Why is it ok for children? sorry if I come off blunt on this subject but i feel very strongly about this one.
yes it is our job to teach them wrong from right and no i never suggested letting them get away with whatever they want. i have worked with many children in my time and can agree that some punishments do not work for some children but there is always another way other than hitting. let me ask one question. If your kitten was doing something wrong or you were looking after an elderly parent and they did something wrong would it be ok to hit them? i would hope the answer to that would be no. so how can we say its ok to do that to a child? and alot of people claim that there is a difference between "spanking" and hitting. what is the difference? just because it doesnt hurt as much on the bottom as it would on the face makes no difference. In my opinion it is still hitting.

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