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Relationship Health Message Board


Relationship Health Board Index


Elatedgiraffe was nice enough to inquire how I was doing and I didn't want to take another person's thread, and I've been here for a while and given my advise and opinions ad nauseum, but have never started a thread of my own, so I thought maybe if I did, I could deal with my own issues all in one shot, and keep it out of other threads except to pass on my experience. Anyway, here we go...

Most of you may know that my relationship issue is with an ex, break up 6 1/2 years ago, he married 2 years ago. I was pretty destroyed after he left me, but when I found out he married, I fell apart all over again, and I just can't seem to put myself back together. Mainly because during the course of our relationship, he drew a pretty hard line regarding his religious and moral beliefs. He didn't believe a woman with children should work outside the home. I have gene pool issues and wanted to give our kids the very best chance of getting the best genes we could give them, and I did research into natural family planning and "accidents" with this method had a higher chance of birth defects because of old sperm or eggs, and he couldn't be with a woman who would use birth control. We saw a toothpaste commercial with just the mother and her sons and he threw a fit that the father wasnt' shown because it implied divorce, which was unspeakable. We were with some friends and their kids and one of the little girls was asking one of the women about the man she was with , that he was her boyfriend, but not her kids' dad and the woman explaining she was divorced. I mentioned this to my ex and he shook his head with sadness and a little disgust at the idea of divorce. He said that was one reason for him sticking with me was because we were getting to the age that other women his age would most likely be divorced and he really didn't want to marry a divorcee, especially if she had kids from another man. He didn't believe in premarital sex either, and neither do I really, but he felt guilty over what we did do, and sort of felt it was me who didn't put the brakes on enough. Anyway, we went round and round about this stuff, even though I basically agreed with him, just not so vehemently and felt stifled which made me take a stand more obnoxious than what was really in my heart, but I would just get soooooo tired of him being sooooo stubborn and immovable and so rigid to the point of being a little crazy in my opinion. And we were both in bad places in life, career and money struggles, unhappy with living situation, etc. And there was unhealthy competition. We're both musicians, and I always sort of felt sort of disrespected and not valued very much by him. His band played a weekend gig out of town and we all spent a rainy afternoon in a cabin, and the guitar player broke out his guitar and started playing "girl" songs, so I sang 3 or 4 songs and everyone said really nice things. Instead of being proud, he seemed to get a bit annoyed. He went and got his guitar and got the guitar player's attention and started working on songs to jam on, and I asked "Hey do you know such and such a song" and my ex frowned, waved his hand at me and said "just a minute..." and that was the end of my singing along, even though he got to play all night with the band. Toward the end of our relationship, he started getting moody and distant, and even a bit mean at times, and I made it clear that I knew how I felt and even though he had our issues, I was in it for good. He left me, but insisted it was mutual, though it most definitely was not, and said it was because we werent compatible enough on the religious issues. Then he started sleeping with a divorcee with the ink still wet on her papers, three kids, the oldest living with the angry ex who lives to make their lives miserable, and her sticking her youngest two in day care while she worked all day, and tied tubes.
So...now, I just can't stop scratching my head wondering what in world happened. Why wasn't I good enough, why didn't I deserve a little honesty, respect, why couldn't he be proud of what I could do musically? He never said more than "pretty good" when I sang. I sang once with his band and he seemed angry and upset while we were onstage, singing loudly over me, and when we got offstage, all his friends said how good I sounded, but I was wondering why he seemed so mad, so to fish for what was going on, I asked "how did that sound?" He said "ok." I got a bit fed up at this and said, a bit sarcastic but with a smile on my face, "that's all?" and he flipped and snapped at me "I work with great singers all the time, I'm used to being around good singers, God, I didn't know your ego was so starved!" I think he was most likely being abusive on purpose because he wanted me gone but didn't have the guts to leave, since he had broken up with me twice before, both times very painful for me, and he had sworn he'd never leave me again, and we got measured for rings, looked at wedding sets, etc. I don't know why I didn't deserve more respect, why couldnt' he compromise for me the way he compromised for his wife, why wasnt' I worth it, or was it all a rouse and from the getgo he never cared for me and put on this elaborate show pretending to be someone he never was to get me to warm his bed but keep me at arm's length to make the getaway smoother? why why why. Since then I've sung for people who work with the real pros and they've all been genuinely impressed. So, I just can't stop asking what happened, and can't stop crying, all that stupid stuff. Can't help feeling so stupid because he said a few times that he wished I had dated more men before him since I didnt' seem to know much about the male ego, and toward the end it changed from "I wish you had dated more men" to "I think you should date other men" and I was too stupid to see the difference. I know I made more than my share of mistakes in the relationship, I didn't value him enough, and i was too nagging and nitpicky, but I just can't seem to move on and I'm so tired of crying, so tired of feeling like someone kicked me in the gut and froze my brain and replaced my blood with lead. All our mutual friend has to say about any of it was "it wasn't personal." I've tried everything, drowning myself in volunteerism, my music, going to clubs and meeting new people, dating services, shrinks, pills, St. John's Wort, everything, but nothing seems to make a difference. It's like I died when he left me and I'm just this lifeless zombie walking around. Plus it doesn't help that I face 40 in about 5 months and am so lonely I can't stand it, no spouse or kids, which I always wanted all my life in the worst way, and I can feel my eggs shrivelling. :eek:

Well, so there it is out there in black and white in all its glory. People who know me I'm sure know it's me from the facts I've given. But anyway, now that it's out, I'm sure I won't feel the need to go into as much detail about my own experience in other threads. And if anyone has anything to add, feel free, but please, not if all you have to say is stop the self pity and get a life. Heard it ad nauseum from friends and family. But if you have something new, I'm game. Thanks y'all.
[QUOTE=lisa24]Hi Nini - I wish I could offer advice, but instead I'm gonna go along the lines of what Ruth said, and Thank You for being here to offer advice to others, including me. Your kind and understanding words are a blessing.
I'm not a reg poster, but I know your story, and though I'm not exactly in your shoes, mine are similar. And when I have posted, you have always had kind words to say.
I know you just can not get over someone, as I'm in that same place. Of course I'm only on 6 months, but I still won't be over it in six years, I'm sure. I'm sorry for all your pain and hurt, and I hope it helps you to know you are appreciated here. So, I just wanted to say thanks!![/QUOTE]

Oh Lisa, please don't say you'll be where you are six years from now! You never know what the Lord has in store for you. I'm doing my best to hang on. I don't feel like I have a today, and tomorrow is unknown, so it's so hard not to live in yesterday, but you're so young and a wonderful, sensitive, insightful person. No matter how much it hurts, you just have to go out there and live your life, and I'll bet you before you know it, you'll hear a deep, resounding, hearty laugh in your ears, and you'll look around, and it will be you!

Keep your chin up and be the best Lisa you know how to be. I know good things will come to you. And thanks for the sweet words. :wave:
[QUOTE=reni]I can sum up this guy in one word: Loser. Be happy you are rid of him and that he is someone else's headache now. Why didn't he want you? Because you are way too good for him :) Stop focusing on what you did wrong (NOTHING) and start looking at what he did right (NOTHING). It wasn't about *your* shortcomings* it was about his.

Six years is a long time to have wasted pining over this man who didn't deserve you in the first place. If you really feel you can't move on, you need to seek therapy. I know you said you don't want to hear anything about getting a life.. but don't you want one? Your only options are remaining miserable forever or getting over it. It's a choice only you can make. I suppose it's a self esteem issue more than anything else. If you believed you were fabulous (and you ARE), you would see that you deserved a wonderful man who cherished you.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your comments. I must admit I do cringe at the "T" word. There's still such a stigma in this country about going to get your head shrunk. But I actually was in therapy off and on for four years after we broke up. I guess it just didn't take. Maybe it is a self-esteem issue to a degree, I don't know. That's actually what he said to me once. He was getting ready to leave me I think, and he knew how badly it would hurt me, and he made a comment that the idea of not being able to live without someone you've come to love so much is a sign of low self esteem. So I guess I sort of see that as just an excuse now. I mean, look at Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash. They were inseperable, partners in every sense, and they both died within like 6 months of each other. I've heard of that happening sometimes, couples grow to be so close and come to depend on each other so much they literally don't want to be without each other. What's really being said is I'm not lucky enough to have the person I loved this much to love me back, so I have to find a way to endure and survive life. But I don't want to just endure or survive life. Yes, like you said, I want to live life. And I never felt more alive than I did when I was holding his hand, watching the sun set or listening to a new cd. I guess what I really need is to find a way to gain some faith in tomorrow. I just can't bring myself to believe that I could be happy again. It's just so hard to wait anymore.
Hi Ninispjc,

Whether you realize it or not, you have already made a first step towards healing: you have stated a desire to move on. Youíre just not sure what that is or what that means, for you. And thatís okay.

No-one can put a time-limit on emotional healing. You already know this, from all the time being spent on mourning this well ended relationship.

Sometimes itís not really so much about Ďletting goí, as it is about forgiving yourself and maybe, forgiving the person you were once so close to. I am only going by your posts here, and I am new to this forum so I am not familiar with your other possible related posts. However, my meaning here is that I am sure you are well aware that this old relationship is over for you, and for him. But just because a relationship ends, it doesnít always mean that the feelings do. Sometimes itís not the break-up thatís the hardest to deal with, but all the ďwhat ifĒ and ďwhyĒ questions that keep relentlessly popping up afterwards, making it difficult to put focus on anything else.

A person can feel crazy, out of control, lost, and become outwardly depressed with all these unanswered questions. It can feel never-ending and overwhelming. It takes up everything else. So much time spent on something that hurt so much is a constant reminder. Itís with you wherever you go, whatever you do. Before you know it, a person is ďstuckĒ in that place, the only time they feel alive is when they remember the pain and the longing; and that is not living, as you know. Youíve been feeling this way for so long (so long) that you probably feel this is going to be it forever Ė you have unconsciously Ďtrainedí yourself to remain in this self defeating rut.

This isnít about this ended relationship or even this man any more. I am hearing a few things from you in your post. You seem to maintain a false sense of security that you may be telling yourself you once had during this relationship. You are dealing with feelings of second guessing yourself and your ideals because they didnít mesh with this manís expectations Ė which impacts the way you feel about yourself (worth and self-esteem). You feel abandoned and betrayed. Your anger and angst is making you to hang on to these feelings that you keep alive 24/7 by reliving all the possible events that led to the eventual demise of this relationship.

And for what purpose? It doesnít really matter if you could or would have reacted or done/said things differently in this old relationship Ė it wouldnít have mattered because he was what he was. You can play the same scenarios over and over again some more, as you have been doing, but it probably wouldnít have changed the outcome.

It doesnít matter whether or not this man was ďrightĒ in his thinking or behaviors or not. Again, itís not about him. What does matter is that you chose to remain (up to the end) in a relationship that clearly was unhealthy for you and not meeting your needs or your goals. Sometimes being healthy is difficult because that means that you may need to do something that changes the way things currently are. And change is scary. However, if you go back and re-read your initial post here, I am not sure what you felt was worth it in this relationship to continue to maintain it versus the way poor way you were disrespected and treated by this person. Itís important to maintain relationships (on all levels) with people who take the time to empower and support one another; to surround yourself with people who are caring and loyal. Your best interests were not taken into consideration.

Because of the way this break-up was handled, the way that this man conducted himself post break-up (dong things he stated he was vehemently was opposed to), and now the fact that he has moved on to marry Ė you never really obtained the closure YOU needed to be able to push through the Ďbreak-up stageí. You are still living in the break-up stage, Ninispjc. And thatís so sad. I truly feel your pain.

No-one can tell you how to find recovery. People can suggest ideas and try to help you make sense of your ongoing pain Ė but sometimes I know itís not that simple. And sadly, it doesnít matter if he was abusive, controlling, etc. or not. Because unfortunately, sometimes the heart or mind just doesnít want to let go of the remnants Ė sometimes the pain is all we have left.

All the suggestions and all the discussions and all the obsessing is not going to make a difference. The only thing that will make a difference in how you decide to LIVE, is you. Itís a difficult commitment to make. After being stuck for so long, you may not know how to self-motivate to even start to feel better. I understand.

If you are truly desirous of moving up and out of this stuck place, you may want to think about counseling to help provide you with some extra strength and guidance to ďget back to the livingĒ. Itís so hard to know where to start or what to do sometimes, I know. Getting some external support can help you with that.

I hear you reaching out. Itís okay to let go of this, despite your unanswered questions. Sometimes the only way TO let go, is to accept that you will never receive all the answers to those questions. Itís not giving in, itís personal growth and progress.

Take good care.
I'm also coming late to this thread so forgive me if I am repeating somebody else.

You sound like a wonderful person but also a very private one. In your last post you stated that you had reconsiled to being alone and never knowing love. This sounds like he was your first love. The first love is so hard to get over if ever but I know you can do it.

It sucks when our lives take a turn we never expected. I always thought I would have a busload of kids turns out I can't have a one. I always thought my husband and I would grow old together and he died in my arms. Then I thought I would spend the rest of my life alone and am now living with somebody. (not without our problems but that's another thread :D )

My point is I know how much it hurts and I know you can make it to the other side. How is entirely up to you. It sounds like you have found some good advice here and know that we are all rooting for you!
[QUOTE=caregiver]I'm also coming late to this thread so forgive me if I am repeating somebody else.

You sound like a wonderful person but also a very private one. In your last post you stated that you had reconsiled to being alone and never knowing love. This sounds like he was your first love. The first love is so hard to get over if ever but I know you can do it.

It sucks when our lives take a turn we never expected. I always thought I would have a busload of kids turns out I can't have a one. I always thought my husband and I would grow old together and he died in my arms. Then I thought I would spend the rest of my life alone and am now living with somebody. (not without our problems but that's another thread :D )

My point is I know how much it hurts and I know you can make it to the other side. How is entirely up to you. It sounds like you have found some good advice here and know that we are all rooting for you![/QUOTE]

Thanks for your words of support and encouragement. I'm sorry to hear that you lost your husband. I hope everything works out with your current love and you have lots and lots of happiness.
Hi Ninispjc,

I hope this finds you doing well today.

I agree that there are a lot of external messages both physical and implied all around us that send the message that being a couple is what itís all about. For me, I would rather be happy out of a relationship than in a relationship where there is no quality, just to say I have a partner; and everyone is different about that opinion. I donít think itís NOT a big deal to have a spouse, but I think itís a big deal when itís RIGHT. :) My opinion only.

You stated in an earlier reply on here that [I]ďÖmaybe because of the way I was raised or whatever, but I just think that's all that's really important in lifeÖĒ. [/I] You may have something there. I was raised by my parents (who are retired and still hold hands to this day) who didnít press upon me a sense of urgency to be married or have a children. They always told me that it didnít matter as long as I was truly happy. I think the values placed up on a person in younger years can definitely impact the things hold important as an adult.

I think everyone at one time or another feels lonely and discouraged when they find themselves a woman-show. Depending on how a person looks at it, being without a partner is a good opportunity to work on personal issues and do things to inspire a personal healthy lifestyle and outlook. The time can be used to cultivate personal interests, work on personal growth, follow-through on personal issues that need a little tweaking Ė and challenge yourself. I guess it would be hard to feel motivated to do these things if there isnít a positive outlook.

Maybe a steady partner in your life would take away the lonely feeling, but I would think that would be a temporary fix. You may still feel unworthy, or always look then for your partner to fulfill you. You may still feel unhappiness. Because of the way you feel about yourself, I think that you would continue to feel, on some level dissatisfied, with yourself personally.

I donít think you should con yourself into feeling anything Ė that wonít work anyway. But maybe you can find a way to build yourself up that feels real to you, because itís your last statement to that sentence that is troubling and sad to read, [I]ďÖI feel like I'm supposed to con myself into feeling good about who I am when who I am isn't good enough to be loved by anyone. How great can I be if I'm not good enough to have ever been loved by anyone?...Ē.[/I] How awful to go around telling yourself and thinking/feeling that you are not good enough to be loved by anyone. That is a powerful statement, and doubly powerful for you in a negative way if you keep telling yourself that.

Thatís why I thought to mention some counseling. No-one is saying that the way you are currently thinking is incorrect, but itís certainly not working for you. Your thoughts along these lines are working against you, making you miserable, and not allowing you to discover or acknowledge your potential as a lovable, worthy woman despite not having a spouse. Counseling may help you understand where these self-defeating thoughts and feelings are coming from, and with that knowledge, you may be able to turn your thoughts into more positive and productive ones. A better outlook on yourself and your future can make a huge difference in your life.

There is a book by Norman Vincent Peale called The Amazing Power of Positive Thinking. I am not sure if you can get it in a local bookstore/library, or if you can only get it via Internet. But itís a good source of ideas for finding strength and peace. I consider it am important read, and itís one of my favorite inspirational motivational books. You might find something in there that grabs your attention.

Hi Caregiver,

What a strong person you are. Such an encouraging and warm post. You sound like a loving soul.

Wishing you both a good day. xo
[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]Hi Ninispjc,

I hope this finds you doing well today.

I agree that there are a lot of external messages both physical and implied all around us that send the message that being a couple is what itís all about. For me, I would rather be happy out of a relationship than in a relationship where there is no quality, just to say I have a partner; and everyone is different about that opinion. I donít think itís NOT a big deal to have a spouse, but I think itís a big deal when itís RIGHT. :) My opinion only.

You stated in an earlier reply on here that [I]ďÖmaybe because of the way I was raised or whatever, but I just think that's all that's really important in lifeÖĒ. [/I] You may have something there. I was raised by my parents (who are retired and still hold hands to this day) who didnít press upon me a sense of urgency to be married or have a children. They always told me that it didnít matter as long as I was truly happy. I think the values placed up on a person in younger years can definitely impact the things hold important as an adult.

I think everyone at one time or another feels lonely and discouraged when they find themselves a woman-show. Depending on how a person looks at it, being without a partner is a good opportunity to work on personal issues and do things to inspire a personal healthy lifestyle and outlook. The time can be used to cultivate personal interests, work on personal growth, follow-through on personal issues that need a little tweaking Ė and challenge yourself. I guess it would be hard to feel motivated to do these things if there isnít a positive outlook.

Maybe a steady partner in your life would take away the lonely feeling, but I would think that would be a temporary fix. You may still feel unworthy, or always look then for your partner to fulfill you. You may still feel unhappiness. Because of the way you feel about yourself, I think that you would continue to feel, on some level dissatisfied, with yourself personally.

I donít think you should con yourself into feeling anything Ė that wonít work anyway. But maybe you can find a way to build yourself up that feels real to you, because itís your last statement to that sentence that is troubling and sad to read, [I]ďÖI feel like I'm supposed to con myself into feeling good about who I am when who I am isn't good enough to be loved by anyone. How great can I be if I'm not good enough to have ever been loved by anyone?...Ē.[/I] How awful to go around telling yourself and thinking/feeling that you are not good enough to be loved by anyone. That is a powerful statement, and doubly powerful for you in a negative way if you keep telling yourself that.

Thatís why I thought to mention some counseling. No-one is saying that the way you are currently thinking is incorrect, but itís certainly not working for you. Your thoughts along these lines are working against you, making you miserable, and not allowing you to discover or acknowledge your potential as a lovable, worthy woman despite not having a spouse. Counseling may help you understand where these self-defeating thoughts and feelings are coming from, and with that knowledge, you may be able to turn your thoughts into more positive and productive ones. A better outlook on yourself and your future can make a huge difference in your life.

There is a book by Norman Vincent Peale called The Amazing Power of Positive Thinking. I am not sure if you can get it in a local bookstore/library, or if you can only get it via Internet. But itís a good source of ideas for finding strength and peace. I consider it am important read, and itís one of my favorite inspirational motivational books. You might find something in there that grabs your attention.

Hi Caregiver,

What a strong person you are. Such an encouraging and warm post. You sound like a loving soul.

Wishing you both a good day. xo[/QUOTE]

Hmmm, interesting point of view... but I think that only works with very few people... like nuns and those that have given up all wordly possesions. Marriage has always been compared to being a job... you work hard and reep the rewards. You cant deny that it is in us to want to succeed... and that is why so many of us work so hard in our jobs... to get repect, a higher status, money... So this is just another comparison of a job to a marriage.. they both bring a sense of accomplishment, success and happiness. So why is it hard to understand women wanting to get married and feeling unforfilled if they do not??? I actually think with us women, marriage and children bring much more forfillment than a great carreer and vise versa for men... might have to do with the way we are wired...
[QUOTE=soulster]Hmmm, interesting point of view... but I think that only works with very few people... like nuns and those that have given up all wordly possesions. Marriage has always been compared to being a job... you work hard and reep the rewards. You cant deny that it is in us to want to succeed... and that is why so many of us work so hard in our jobs... to get repect, a higher status, money... So this is just another comparison of a job to a marriage.. they both bring a sense of accomplishment, success and happiness. So why is it hard to understand women wanting to get married and feeling unforfilled if they do not??? I actually think with us women, marriage and children bring much more forfillment than a great carreer and vise versa for men... might have to do with the way we are wired...[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much where I'm coming from, soulster. No matter how much I volunteer, how much charity I work for, no matter how many friends I have or how much money I make, or if my career really takes off and I have everything as far as that goes, if no one ever loves me enough to make me his wife, if I never get to share my life with someone, I will always consider myself a loser. That's just where my value system is. that's what counts in life, loving someone and earning their love in return. If you blew that, you've blown everything.
Thanks Snails, and thanks by the way to all who have taken the time to read and respond and allow me to just whine a moan a bit here! I agree with what you said, Snail, and I do actually consider myself a feminist. I'm just so confused about all of this stuff right now. I used to be so sure of who I was and what I believed was right, but now, my head is just in a jumble. I don't understand these women who believe a man is superior and he's the boss and what he says goes, but then they are the strong one, they run the house, and boss their man around, and they are usually very hard-headed and smarter than their men. My ex's close friend married a woman like this. Believed men were inherently superior to women in every way, and even made a comment that her daughter from a pervious relationship came home from school saying a woman can do anything a man can do and she said "I'm going to put a stop to that nonsense right away." Yet she wore the pants in the relationship totally. My ex seems to have married the same type of woman. Yet whenever I said something intelligent, I was being arrogant. If I demanded to be paid more attention to, I was insecure. I'm sure I'd feel better about the whole thing if I had more experience with the opposite sex under my belt. I think I'd better be able to just chalk it up to a bad match. I just can't seem to shake this feeling that he was my one chance at love and happiness. I know I made him out to be this insensitive jerk, but I wouldn't miss him so much if there hadn't been a lot of really good moments, too. I thought we had a special connection. I think it's also just this particular group of people. I've rarely felt so disrespected as I have by this group of people. this mutual friend of mine and my ex's called me and said he got the feeling this situation with my ex was "tearing me up" and he wanted to help me with it, which I took as an invitation to discuss it, so I did, and then he told me I was being whiny and moany and b*tchy, and I was wrong to call his friend a liar (which I'm still convinced he is), then he laid all this religion on me (he's just recently found Jesus) which I found smothering, and invited me to go to church with him, and I accepted just to try it, then he bailed on me but said I should go by myself, and I haven't heard from him since. He also wanted me to be involved with this music organization he's trying to put together, and told me this woman will be involved, who I knew from when I dated my ex, and found her to be very overbearing, underhanded, passive-aggressive, manipulative, she fancied herself my ex's band's manager, which she was not, and the chick singer, which she sort of appointed herself. They opened for a popular national act and she handed out the backstage passes and made sure I didn't get one, and would throw a fit whenever I sang with the band, making it clear that girlfriends and other hangers on were not welcome at the gigs she set up for them, etc. and I told this guy I had no interest in having her in my life in any capacity at all again, I find her a very toxic person, and he said I was being paranoid. It 's really crazy-making to have someone call themself your friend then treat every word that comes out of your mouth like it's the dumbest, most ridiculous thing ever said.

But in any case, thanks again to all for letting me vent so much without judgment. I appreciate it. And to Lisa, I appreciate your words very much. Thank you. I know you can relate, too. :angel:
Hi Ninisjpc,

I'm sorry that I never saw your last post and didn't have a chance to reply. I was just wondering how you were doing lately. I know you've been around giving your great advice to others :), but I was thinking about you personally and hoping things have been going a bit better. I reread the end of this thread and I have to say, I can see where you're coming from a bit more. I don't think there's any contradiction between being a feminist in the sense that women are just as smart and capable as men, and they can and should succeed just like men have traditionally, and feeling incomplete without a man.

My mom has been divorced since I was a baby, and has made an extremely successful career for herself. My dad helped some, and was always around, a very consistent influence in my life, but really it was my mom and my mom alone who gave me the best of everything: all the toys, books, clothes, cars and education (8 years at extremely expensive private schools). She has taken care of several beautiful homes, inside and out, doing repairs, putting together furniture, all the typical guy stuff, all on her own without a word of compaint. She really prefers it that way, doing things her way on her time with only me to answer to. She has had a few boyfriends along the way, but just isn't willing to give up her lifestyle and privacy for a man. I admire her more than anyone in the world--I can't imagine that anyone could have had a more loving, caring, and supportive mother--but I can't imagine being completely happy like her without a man. Maybe having a child helps, but being a single mom is SO hard, even when money isn't an issue (and my mom had to work her way up from scratch, so she didn't always have plenty of money). Anyway, besides a little tribute to my amazing mom :angel: , my point here is that even with that inspiring example of independence, I have always been much more comfortable with a man in my life.

Since high school, I've always liked having a steady boyfriend, just someone to count on for company, support, and social companionship. I'm not sure it has as much to do with how you're raised as your temperment, and I, while a firmly avowed feminist, don't think I would be as happy without a man in my life. I don't think this makes us less strong, independent women, and I don't think it's anything that you or I should try to change. The truth is, it's great to have a partner by your side. I think that probably a huge reason why you're having trouble getting past this break-up is because of a lack of other relationships to compare it to, so that you can see that there are other guys out there and that he wasn't the be all and end all of men. I wish I had some way to give you that perspective, but I can't. Despite having 4 other serious relationships, I just know that my current SO is the love of my life, the one I'm meant to be with forever. If anything happened to change that, I know I'd never get over it either. I'm sure there must have been lots of wonderful aspects to your relationship, and I'm sorry that I and others focused on his negative traits in an attempt to make you feel better. You wouldn't still be struggling with this if he was really a complete loser...it's always hardest to get over your first love, and even harder when you didn't find love until you were mature enough to recognize it and when you invested so much of your hopes and yourself in the relationship. So while I wish I could give you some profound advice as to how to move past this, I can't. I can only give you compassion and understanding, and say that it doesn't make you less of a person or woman to want a man to complete you (cheesy as that sounds). Still, with all the love and care in your heart, I'd bet that someday, when you're not even looking, another man will come to love you in a way that will make you forget this other guy. In the meantime, I hope things get easier little by little.

Also, I wanted to say that I completely agreed with your story about your friend who supposedly considers herself, and all women, inferior and subordinate to men, but still bosses her husband around. I think that in today's day and age, any women who feels that way is either terribly insecure or just a plain hypocrite, spouting out that dated rhetoric as a cover for being controlling and overbearing. I do feel sorry for that woman's daughter--what effect will a lifetime of such mixed signals have on that poor girl's view of herself and men? GRRR...there's nothing wrong with admitting you need a man, but EVERYTHING wrong with saying that you're inferior to them. It's like the women who opposed the Equal Rights Amendment...what kind of woman wants to hold all the rest of us back? Clearly, a hypocritical, bitter woman who begrudges all other woman any happiness and success.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling, and I hope it was okay to bump this thread. If you feel like it, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is concerned with how you're making out these days, so fill us in if you'd like. I hope you've been doing a little better, I can only imagine how hard this is to live with day in and day out. Take care!
Hey Snails and Sophia,

Thanks so much for your lovely posts. I sure appreciate them. Snails, your mom sounds like an awfully strong, wonderful woman. Sometimes I wish I could be so much more like her. I used to enjoy being independent and doing things all on my own, but I think it was because I wanted to do things for myself, now it feels like I HAVE to. Life is so much easier when you have someone to share it with. Even though your mom was such a wonderful role model, it seems you can relate to the fact that not every woman can be happy living their life the same way another woman would choose to.

Sophia, thanks for your story, too. I do feel that things are happening in my life, well, at least professionally. Even though I'm still not making quite the amount of money I'd feel comfortable and settled with, I still really love my job, and I've never been able to say that before in my life. I think it's really just a mid-life thing I'm going through. I'm looking back at my life and I think of all the wonderful things that people do in their teens, 20s and 30s that I never got to do - hayrides, prom, homecoming, dances, parties, New Year's Eve all dressed up at a ball under the lights, champagne and midnight kisses, sex and passion and love and marriage and babies and a nice home and family life and all that. I don't want to go to my grave with so much unlived life in my veins. Sometimes I feel like even if I get all my dreams tomorrow, would it still be enough? Look at all I've already missed. It just makes me really sad. But I know God has His reasons and His own timing for things. I don't know. Who knows, maybe I was alone and unhappy when most women are married and having babies, only to find myself happily married with a new family, either starting my own, adopting, or learning to love wonderful step-kids, when other women my age are divorcing and setting out on their own. I just don't want to waste any more of my life alone. I feel like I've worked so hard on my career, on being a good friend, a good daughter, a good sister, a good citizen, etc etc. that there's just nothing left for me to learn or achieve or accomplish on my own. Being alone can be a help at certain stages of your life, but it can be a hinderance in other stages. I feel like it's a big hinderance now, and there's nowhere left to go. I guess all I can do is pray God agrees. We'll see. Thanks for your kind words and support. It means a lot to me. :angel:
[QUOTE=Ninispjc]Hey Snails and Sophia,

Thanks so much for your lovely posts. I sure appreciate them. Snails, your mom sounds like an awfully strong, wonderful woman. Sometimes I wish I could be so much more like her. I used to enjoy being independent and doing things all on my own, but I think it was because I wanted to do things for myself, now it feels like I HAVE to. Life is so much easier when you have someone to share it with. Even though your mom was such a wonderful role model, it seems you can relate to the fact that not every woman can be happy living their life the same way another woman would choose to.

Sophia, thanks for your story, too. I do feel that things are happening in my life, well, at least professionally. Even though I'm still not making quite the amount of money I'd feel comfortable and settled with, I still really love my job, and I've never been able to say that before in my life. I think it's really just a mid-life thing I'm going through. I'm looking back at my life and I think of all the wonderful things that people do in their teens, 20s and 30s that I never got to do - hayrides, prom, homecoming, dances, parties, New Year's Eve all dressed up at a ball under the lights, champagne and midnight kisses, sex and passion and love and marriage and babies and a nice home and family life and all that. I don't want to go to my grave with so much unlived life in my veins. Sometimes I feel like even if I get all my dreams tomorrow, would it still be enough? Look at all I've already missed. It just makes me really sad. But I know God has His reasons and His own timing for things. I don't know. Who knows, maybe I was alone and unhappy when most women are married and having babies, only to find myself happily married with a new family, either starting my own, adopting, or learning to love wonderful step-kids, when other women my age are divorcing and setting out on their own. I just don't want to waste any more of my life alone. I feel like I've worked so hard on my career, on being a good friend, a good daughter, a good sister, a good citizen, etc etc. that there's just nothing left for me to learn or achieve or accomplish on my own. Being alone can be a help at certain stages of your life, but it can be a hinderance in other stages. I feel like it's a big hinderance now, and there's nowhere left to go. I guess all I can do is pray God agrees. We'll see. Thanks for your kind words and support. It means a lot to me. :angel:[/QUOTE]

Yep, I know, I know Nini--you've been alone way too long. I feel like relationships are good because being in a relationship can help you grow as a person much more than being alone. I really hope you'll meet someone soon, like yesterday! Are there any single, elligible guys at your job in radio? Hmm, I guess not because if there were, you would have already been dating one. How's the eHarmony thing going?
Hey everyone, yet another great thread with some of my favorite regulars! :wave:

I think everyone's made really good points since I've been away, but I couldn't have said it better than Sophia and Ninisjpc on p.9 (?)--I completely agree that we just have to do the best we can each day, try to put a smile on and take as much pleasure as we can in the small things. In my experience, the more I've fretted, the worse things have gone and vice versa. But as pleasing as it would be to think there is some set order to our lives, I'm just not quite convinced. I think the pleasure of life is in the journey, but yet I've spent a lot of time in my short life wishing time away for various things, like for a stolen weekend with a long-distance love. In the end, it seems to me like what happens happens and a great deal of it has to do with chance and timing.

It's just not very comforting to look at things that way and even more difficult to think accordingly. I thought I had everything going so great until I (unnecessarily) got my wisdom teeth removed last fall and since then it feels like someone's sticking an electric cattleprod in my face a few hundred times a day thanks to that butcher oral surgeon. I'm still trying to go to grad school for my Phd but everything just changed in an instant, and I'll never get my old life back or wake up in the morning without being jolted awake by lightning bolt of pain. It's just so hard sometimes to face reality and not grieve for what was or what could have been if only things had turned out a little differently.

Sorry to but in on your thread with a sort of off-topic post, I just wanted to vent a bit :confused: and remember, even when one thing (like my love life) is going great, something else can always come along and bite you in the butt. You women are all so brilliant, intuitive, and blessed, that I hope you remember once in awhile to be proud of everything you do have. All of that will just make a guy who'll someday sneak up on you all the more enamored and devoted...at least I hope so, because you guys deserve it more than anyone :) .

Good night all and best wishes,
Stacy
[QUOTE=soulster]Kay good post. although I dont know if Nini will like it too much at first. I was just thinking that maybe you might not be giving other guys a fair chance??? Have you met anyone face to face and actually been on a physical date? I just cant believe that from all the dates you have been on in these last 7 years that no one has expressed an interest in you??? Maybe you are comparing all these guys to your ex and by doing that you become dissapointed before even giving them a chance?? I dont know I am just thinking of some things that might be going on so that if they are it might help you out some.[/QUOTE]

Let's see, trying to asnwer the last two posts at the same time...Kay asked what am I afraid of? Not sure to what this is referring, but actually, when I go out on a date, the first thing I think is "what if he likes me more than I like him then I have to do the awful, dreaded "let's just be friends" speech." I just hate having to do that. I don't know, I'm a big believer in chemistry. Not love at first sight, but I really just have to feel "something" within the first date or two. I mean, after you've had a nice dinner, nice conversation, and you still just don't want to kiss him, even though you haven't kissed anyone in 7 years, that's not saying much. But if you meant what am I most afraid of in life, generally, it would be being alone for the rest of it.

Now, regarding have I given these guys a chance? Yes, I think I have. I went out with one man, actually when my ex and I were on a "just friends" period, and I really enjoyed the date, the restaurant was great, and the little place he took me to afterward for drinks was great, but he was just a little over the top. I don't like to practice my religion out in the open so blatently, I hold pretty firmly to Matthew 6:5 and 6:6, and he was one of these guys who wanted to hold hands and say grace out loud right there at the table, he liked city life whereas I would never want to raise kids in the city, suburban schools are much better, etc. and I was a little put off by his comment that Demi Moore "prostituted herself" in her movie Striptease. That started a conversation on male and female roles in society, and we had some pretty serious parting of the ways on that issue, so I just didn't press it. I just wasn't feeling it. I don't know, did I give this guy a fair chance? I think I did. I mentioned in another thread a few months back about another guy I dated who told me about his "first time" when he and his cousin took turns on some girl, then he told me I had nice breasts, then asked me if I was stubborn, and I was truthful and admitted a bit of a stubborn streak and he muttered "well, you blew that one." And he carried on a little about my hair being black, because I told him on the phone it was dark brown, and he said I reminded him of his ex fiance and he was freaking out because of it. Did I give him a fair shot? Well, I think I did. I've met men that I have been attracted to, that I would like to date, but they're always already married or hooked up, or just not interested. You're welcome to your opinion that it's impossible to hide my pain and people pick up on it, but I respectfully disagree. I let it all hang out here on these boards. My brother and my mother have both commented on how strange and amazing it is that I can sound so happy and up when talking to other people, because they know this side of me too, but they both have admitted that I hide it very very well when I want to. I am never anything but up, smiling and jovial on dates, but not overly so.

Am I looking for my ex? Well, that would be more than a little self-defeating, yes? It didn't work with my ex, so why would I look for someone else just like him? No, I don't believe that's what I'm doing. I'm just looking for a nice guy who doesn't bore me to tears, likes some of the same things I do, can keep a conversation going, and who I find attractive. I know that not-great looking guys can become cuter when you get to know how great they are, which is why I went out on my last date even though I wasn't really attracted to his picture, I though maybe he'd look better in person, or maybe if he didn't, he'd be so cool that I wouldn't care what he looked like. Then I found out on the date that, although music is my life, he doesn't even listen to the radio. He was carrying a book by some author I'd never heard of, and he's conservative and I'm more liberal. Even so, I was open to another date, but he emailed me and said he was going to pursue another relationship, see ya.

So, I don't know. You could be right, but if so, I just don't see where I'm bleeding from every pore in front of these guys, trying to make them my ex, not giving them a chance, etc. I wish you could see me in some social situation. Believe me, you wouldn't recognize me. Just, ever since I was a little girl, people just aren't drawn to me. I don't know why. They just never have been. There have only been two or three people in my entire life outside my parents and brothers that I have achieved any sort of emotional intimacy with. My ex was one such person. The thing I miss the most is our conversations. Even when we would disagree, I could talk to him for hours and love every minute of it. Am I looking for that? I mean, it was one of those relationships where we finished each other's sentences, or one of us would tell a joke or see something on tv, and everyone else in the room would be like "huh? ok" and we'd be the only two cracking up. Once you've had that, it's hard to imagine never having it again. Yes, I guess you could say that's the one thing about my last relationship that I would like to recapture, is someone I can talk with, have a connection with. But doesn't everyone want that? I suppose what makes this hard for me is that before I met my ex, I was resigned to living my whole life alone. I had gone through high school, college, all of my 20s without being kisses, without a date at all, so I had accepted that that's just the way it was going to be. Then I got a little taste of what I was missing, and like Hugh Grant said in Notting Hill, "it's as if I'd taken love heroine and I can never have it again." I can't go back to being ok with living the rest of my life alone again, and I can't find another SO. which puts me in a pretty sucky place.
[QUOTE=Snails] I'm wondering if Nini putting her future in the hands of God is another way of essentially giving up on putting any effort into finding a man. Let me make this clear--while I don't like when threads here start to sound like everyone should believe in the same mystical being despite all absense of proof, I am not trying to attack religion here. I admire the hope and strength it gives to many people. Nini, I do believe you won't feel truly happy and complete until you find a male partner. But not all men expect you to have sex to date, to me that's another excuse to hold out for the perfect man and bypass the okay ones.[/QUOTE]

I guess by this you mean there's something faulty in the way I approach men or dating or whatever as a whole. Maybe you think I should date or have sex with men that I don't find attractive or appealing at all? I think maybe that works for some people, but that just doesn't work for me. Maybe it's how I look at people in general. I don't, and cannot, connect with just anybody. I don't know why, maybe faulty wiring, maybe some childhood trauma, but I just don't. It's very rare when I meet someone that I feel I can trust, that will accept me for who I am, that I can laugh around and be myself around and feel like I'm not being judged or ridiculed. I thought my ex was one such person, but it turned out he was not. But I just wouldn't find it any fun to steadily date someone, and no way having sex with someone, that I did not have this kind of connection with.


[QUOTE=Snails]I doubt you'd be feeling so hopeless about this situation if you had some sex every now and again. IF its your ex who thinks this is wrong--well screw him, he's already renounced all his professed "morals," and following them will certainly not bring him back--but if you truly believe it's wrong to have sex outside of marriage, then you shouldn't. I just have a hard time understanding this, because marriage is a legal obligation, so cold and clincial, which is still denied to some long-term, devoted, lifelong lovers.[/QUOTE]

I don't necessarily oppose all premarital sex. But sex outside the context of a loving, committed, monogamous relationship just wouldn't work for me. I dabbled in it once, not actual sex, but sexual contact, with an acquaintance, last winter, and it was such a hollow experience I almost cried in the middle of fooling around. It hurt to do that with someone and not have that emotional connection. Plus, he's seen more a$$ than a toilet seat in his day, and I was momentarily careless and had to sweat out the worrying about STDs (tests all came back negative, thank God.) He's recently found God and is trying to use his newfound religion to talk me out of my funk, and he chastised me for allowing myself to still have feelings for a married man. Well PPPPHHHHTTTTTHTHHHHHTTT to that. :p He wa smine first. He swore he'd never leave me, we looked at wedding rings together and measured our fingers and everything. In my heart, we were already married. I can't turnmy feelings off like a spicket just because he decided to be a jerk and marry some divorcee. It also says in Matthew "you have been told that any man who wished to divorce his wife, he will be given a bill of divorce. But I say to you, any man who divorces his wife, causes her to commit adultery. And any man who married a divorced woman also commits adultery." So if anyone has a problem with me still having feelings for a married man, too flippin' bad.


[QUOTE=Snails]Do you really want to live the rest of your life without having sex? [/QUOTE]

No, I don't. Which is why this is so painful. It's more than I can bear to have to know so much of my life is already wasted, and I've never made love really. But, as stated above, sex to me is so much more emotional than physical. I don't get anything at all out of it unless that emotional bond is there. That's just me. It's hollow, empty and meaningless, and not at all enjoyable otherwise.

[QUOTE=Snails]For instance, it strikes me as extremely unusual that you didn't date at all in your teens and twenties--I know you're attactive, smart, and funny. Many people with a lot less to offer had plenty of dates in their early years--what held you back? [/QUOTE]

Uh, the fact that no one ever asked me. I got up the courage to ask two guys out in junior high school, they both turned me down flat. In fact one got a friend to tell me he hated my guts. No one was ever interested, what can I say. By the time I reached college, I had gotten so used to living inside my own head and treating other people like obstacles and intrusions rather than potential relationships, that I admit I didn't take full advantage of college life. But I grew up in a very very conservative, white middle class suburban neighborhood, and I'm not white, and interracial dating just wasn't done, so I'm sure that had a little something to do with it.


[QUOTE=Snails]What kept you so naive and starry-eyed that you believed (and still, it seems, in some ways believe) that the first man that came along was the one, despite his bad behavior? I think this will take a lot of self-examination, patience, and effort to uncover a new NINISJPC, ready for love [/QUOTE]

I honestly don't think it was naivete or being starry-eyed that has made me feel like this guy is the "only" it. I just by and large really hate dating. I hate telling the same storied over and over and over again, making the same inane small talk, and although some dates have really been fun, that's not what turns me on. There was such a deep, rich, satisfaction in having that one person that "got me," who was my friend and confidante, who laughed with me when no one else did. He just happened to be the first man I ever dated.
Yes, he behaved badly, and so did I. I still believe he's the only one for only one reason: there hasn't been anyone else. Although he crossed my mind, this second bout of pain and misery really didn't settle until until I found out he married a divorcee with tied tubes. I thought he at least was my friend, someone who cared about me as a person, and to find out he was just using me, that he lied to me every step of the way, this is what's so devastating. I do think to a large degree, this information has led me to give up. I obviously don't deserve love, because if I deserved love, I'd have it, it's that simple. And I do tend to be a bit of a fatalist, and I do think things happen for a reason. I don't know if God has a divine plan for everyone's life, but I do think that if He opens a door, no one can close it, and if He closes a door, no one can open it. I think for some reason He's chosen to close the door of love on me. I've never known it. Only two miserable on-again-off-again years with some guy who was lying to me and using me the whole time and that's my complete, total experience with love. The problem is I think I'm NOT naive or starry-eyed. I just can't believe that after 40 years of this track record, suddenly, things will turn around overnight. When I was a kid, I was happy, energetic, bubbly, curious, and I still had a devil of a time making people like me. It just seems to be the way it was supposed to be for me. The tough part is having to accept it and live with this, because it's the last thing in the world I really want to believe, but nothing else really makes sense. I don't really know what else there is to say about all this, but again, I thank you all for your input and support and for the chance to just vent a little. Ok, a LOT. :eek:
Hey Nini,

Hmmm, are you by any chance a virgo? :) I dont know, but all my friends that had problems similar to yours were virgos... anyway that is not important, but what is important is I feel you are addressing issues that if resolved will help you heal from all your hurt- which I feel has very little to do with your ex boyfriend. I totally agree with snails,esp her last paragraph... it is just about people being jeoulous- nothing more, nothing less... it is up to you how you want to handle it... You know what, if someone's self esteem is low enough they can actually see negative connations and remarks in statments that were given as compliments. I dont think you are there at all, just giving an example of what low self esteem can do to a person.
One thing I wanted to add is people for the most part will only treat you not only by the way you want to be treated but also by the way you treat yourself. Are you sure that you yourself dont feel you are an underdog, someone who should be in the background, and not deserve to have the spotlight on youself??? It might be that a part of you does and that is projected onto others and those who are jeoulous and insecure will take advantage of that once they pick up on it. If you have confidence in yourself and dont for one minute believe that you are not fully worthy of everything, no one else will believe that otherwise and no one wil treat you as such. And even when you are fully confident in yourself there will still be those select few who cant stand you being in the spotlight, like snails said you then owe it to yourself to stand up for yourself... you might need to fake it for right now but if you work at it you will slowly start believing in it yourslef. It is a hard process but I dont think you cant get there, I think you can get there... I just believe you have been looking in the wrong direction...
Wow, there's been quite a bit of movement since I was last logged on. Thanks for all your replies. I do think it's a slow process. Believe it or not, I'm so much stronger than I was when I first got out of high school. I almost wish I could do my college years over again, knowing what I know now. But I guess I'm just a slow learner. Hmmm...let's see, trying to address everyone's posts...do i feel better since I started this thread? Truthfully, not really, but it's not for your lack of trying, and I appreciate all the support. As far as other things in my life, I've worked really hard at my career, and even though I don't get paid as much as I'd like, I still really like my job, I like my apartment, I volunteer, I spend lots of time with my dog, but I think it's just a part of who I am and what I value and deem important in this life, that I will always have a painful, empty space in my gut until I find someone to love who'll love me back. I could win the nobel peace prize, get a nice raise and promotion at work, build 10 homes for Habitat for Humanity, raise thousands of dollars for worthy charities, and serve hundreds of meals on wheels to elderly shut ins, and it wouldn't matter a lick to me. If I still climb into bed alone and never get to share my life with someone, I would still consider my life a waste.

Snails, I know a lot of what you said makes sense. The guy who used to flick me and feel like he had to put me in my place recently admitted to me that he was totally intimidated by me because I was talented and educated and attractive, and I still have a hard time believing anyone could be intimidated by little ol' me. When it's so hard for me to achieve things that seem so easy for others. But he's also the same guy who told me my ex's wife is so strong and confident, but when he wanted me to be involved in some project and he told me this other woman we used to know will also be involved, I said that I found her a very mean, toxic person and I didn't want to be around her, he called me paranoid. I don't know, standing up for myself just never seemed to work too well. I always get accused of being paranoid or whiney or being a complainer or whatever. But over the years, it has become more of a hard-won part of my personality. I've learned most importantly not to even bother with people who don't treat me the way I think I deserve to be treated. I don't even waste my time trying to talk them into treating me right anymore.

I know it's very possible I will never find love at all. I mean, most people my age, even if they're divorced or if they've had relationships that didn't work out, most people my age have at least experienced love to some degree for at least a little while. I can't honestly say I ever really have at all. So I may never. I guess this is what scares me most of all. How do you face the rest of your life when you know you most likely won't ever have the one thing you believe makes it worth living? p.s., by the way, no I'm not a Virgo, I'm a Pisces. Quixotic, romantic, sentimental, sensitive, big dreamer, doesn't deal well with reality, or so the charts say.
[QUOTE=Kay33]((Ninijspc)) your self-esteem is so shattered that any negativity sends you deeper into despair.
You said you've done therapy and even meds in the past, but I would urge you to condsider doing so, again.[/QUOTE]

Maybe this has some merit, Kay. I thank you foryour concern. But I had such a bad experience with the whole anti-depressant thing, the whole idea is just, bleck to me now. And I don't know, it's hard to imagine the answer to my problems being in a little pill. I don't know, I guess I'm really messed up, but I've seen women more messed up than me who managed to get someone to marry them. I have to believe there's something bigger at work here. I'm just not sure what.
[QUOTE=SophiaM]Well, I wasn't really talking about a sperm bank, but I understand. I don't know if I would actually have a child on my own either. I'm undecided about this. You're not a mess, there are so many people who are a lot more messed up. The ex definitely wasn't the right guy because if he was, he would have loved you for your opinions. Where is the right guy? I wish I knew. Believe me, I am so fed up myself of being single, especially on a gloomy sunday. I write all these stupid papers, I study, and it's all for nothing because nobody gives a damn, and there's no "reward" like spending time with my boyfriend afterwards. I know how you feel. Nothing to look forward to. After years of this, you basically become insane. The only time that I feel happy is when I go away on vacation. Do you often feel like you just want to ditch your present life, change your name, and run away to start everything from scratch? I wish I could just wake up and not be me, on the inside. I am starting to think that maybe I'm somehow attracting bad luck, as if there are insurmountable obstacles that only keep getting worse despite all my good intentions. Does that sound familiar? The only thing I disagree with in your post is that having good health and other good things in your life ARE extremely important and do matter. Never ever take that for granted please.[/QUOTE]

Yes, you're right Sophie. I am very grateful for the fact that I at least have good health. There's a woman who lives in my apartment complex in a wheelchair. I always try to say a nice word to her, but I only see her when we're walking our dogs, and our dogs don't get along, so I don't get to say much. The nice lady downstairs says she hasn't had a happy life. I know I'm so lucky at least to be able to take care of myself. I was just thinking of that line from the movie Tootsie, when Charles Durning sayd "people got it all wrong. They say your health is important. I could lift this house off the ground, what good is it? Being with someone, that's what's important." And I do thank God every day for my job. It doesn't pay much, and I still struggle to get the bills paid, but at least I love what I do. I spent so much of my life hating my job, it is a real gift to finally be able to like my job and not feel that knot in my stomach in the morning because of what I have to do that day. Sometimes I'm actually excited to get to work because I "get" to do this or that, and I know that's huge. I wish I could just shake this hollow, sore, empty feeling in my gut. It just never seems to go away, and I have a fuzzy, tiring headache that's always there, no matter what I do.

I know how you feel, but Sophia, please don't put down your accomplishments in school, either. I know it may feel like "ok, so I'll have this piece of paper that says I passed this or that course, big deal!" But think of it this way:when you get that degree, you will be one big step closer to being the person your future husband will fall in love with. I try to look at my work that way. When I was with my ex, I hated my job so badly, it really sucked a lot of the life out of me, I was tired and irritable a lot of the time, and I really this contributed to the demise of the relationship. He knew I wasn't happy in what I was doing, but we were in our 30s and he sort of discouraged me to consider a job change at that point. Who knows, if I had stayed with him, I wouldn't have this job I love so much now. I try to see myself as being closer to being the person some great guy will want to fall in love with.

I used to feel the same as you, about just wanting to run away and start all over. Actually, I wished I could just step inside someone else's skin, anyone else's. Now, I don't know. I just want this life to hurry up and be done with. I mean, yes I have a nice job, and yes I love my dog to pieces, but how many headstones do you see with the epitaph, "valued employee, devoted dog owner." Let's face it, that's not what our society views as what's most important in life. Yes, it can make you really feel crazy. Sometimes I just feel like screaming at the top of my lungs and just trashing my living room out of frustration at another day gone by that I didn't get to spend with someone I loved. I had a friend whose husband left her for another woman, took the kids, the house, and tossed her aside, even tried to make the kids call the new woman "mom". My friend spiraled into such depression and self-destructive behavior, I just couldn't help her and we lost contact.

But please don't stop seeing yourself as the wonderful, loving, smart lady you are, Sophia. I value your input here so much, I feel lik you really can relate to what I'm going through. But I'm trying so hard to keep the faith, and to keep from taking a short walk off the top of the nearest skyscraper. Maybe if we can just talk it out and share experiences and let each other know we're not alone, we can get rid of enough of the pain and craziness so we can both find the love that hopefully will be right under our noses one day soon.
Hi Nini and everybody else............Well i've been away for a few days and was amazed how much there was to catch up on. After i finished reading i came to the conclusion that everybody is different (well i knew that anyway) but in terms of being patient and just taking life as it happens, well not everybody is the same. I think that's why some people just cruise along in their single state and don't focus too far ahead, whereas others want tomorrow happening today. They want that man (or whatever else) NOW!!

I realise things which happen in our early lives tend to shape us, as well as our genetic makup and the planetary alignment at our time of birth (well i personally believe in the last bit anyway). I have a friend who also never dated and only had her first b/f ever at 29 and they dated for 3 years. He didn't know where he was going or what he was doing. She wanted committment, so she left him. Since then she hasn't met anybody else and she is an attractive and intelligent girl, yet not rude or intimidating. I can't understand why she hasn't met somebody. Anyway, she doesn't worry about not having somebody. Yes, she would like to meet somebody, but she seems to be cruising along and just taking life as it happens. She doesn't do dating off the net and she doesn't try any other forms. She is waiting on fate. Her life has had it's ups and downs, from being "interferred" with on a regular basis by a teenage boy when she was only 7, to losing her mother, among other things.

So i feel we each have differing coping mechanisms. My mother can't get over the suicide rate. She just doesn't understand suicide. She was born in 1939 and life in Europe during the war was very hard and her family were not well off. In fact the things she tells me make my head spin at times and when i think of young people today, i doubt they could live like that if they had to. That's why my mum is always saying how hard they had it and nobody suicided. She said we were happy with what we had and we sang songs and joked, even if we were starving with nothing to eat till tomorrow. Well maybe time has made her youth appear "rosey", who knows, but she doesn't understand this idea of suicide.

Actually in addition to varying coping mechanisms, individual mind sets etc i think you could add family and the way we live these days. In my mother's time, a close family was so important and most people had big families with lots of get togethers. Today you don't get that much and a lot of people seem to be on their own, doing their own thing and when you don't have family or not much family, then having a partner in your life becomes important. Not necessarily for procreation, but for love, companionship, sharing etc. I know if i had to pick only one "the partner or the kids", i'd pick to have a wonderful partner.

Guess after typing all that, patience is still the key. Only some of us have more of it, whilst others have less, for whatever reason. So to be honest Nini, i doubt there are any meds or anything a counsellor could say etc which would make you feel better inside while you wait for a man to walk into your life. I don't think there is anything which can be done to wipe away the hurt of the years gone by. I do understand however that when you do meet the guy you is right for you, that union will fix all past things which were said or done to you. There is no way to hurry things up. He will likely find you when you least expect it.

About the guys you dated recently, i'm still in shock over the guy you had dinner with once and he wanted to say grace at the table, out aloud and in the restuarant. I think i would have left there and then. I do say prayers, just not aloud in public.

Only wondering, but have you ever approached a guy while you were out someplace? or would that make you feel uncomfortable? Also, the town you live in, is it on the small side or is it a big city? as maybe the size of the town might be small with not enough potential? Don't get me wrong here, am not saying you come from some back water, just trying to look at things from a different angle. I want to be on these boards and still contributing on the day you post a new message, saying you have found the one. I have faith in you. Actually have extra amounts of faith as you seem to be a little bit down in that department :D Take care guys, am off to eat my dinner.
[QUOTE=soulster]Hey Nini, I dont know if you have looked enough to be exhausted??? You said that you signed up for an online dating service for about 6 months.. but it didnt work and now you are trying it again. Well that covers 6 months... what about the rest of the time- you broke up with your ex 7 years ago? I am not trying to give you a hard time.. its just that if you want to fall inlove and meet the man of your dreams that will sweep you of your feet I believe you really have to work at it if it doesnt just come to you ... life is unfair, but then we have resources within ourselves to change some bad karma, cards, fate, whatever that we might have been dealt. You have to go out as much as possible, try to approach guys, sign up for dating services until you meet the guy not just quit if something doesnt happen, you just need to put yourself out there in every way possible- date, date, date, go out, go out, go out and approach guys or at least signal to them that you are interested while out. Its like someone who wants the job of their dreams but doesnt do much to get one. I really believe its in your own hands.[/QUOTE]

As I've said in different posts, the internet dating thing is just one thing I've tried within the past year. The first three or four years after my ex left I went out every week. I sing, so I went karoake-ing and went to open stages and open mike nights two or three times a week, doing the best I knew how to approach people, strike up conversations, etc. I also joined a dating service that cost me about $1000, and went out on almost every event they had planned. Then my dog died, and I sort of took a break from everything. Then I got another dog and signed up for a dog training class for 8 weeks. I went back to school, did four internships and different radio and tv stations, still doing karoake at least once a week. I volunteer to help raise funds for an animal hospital, and I also took part in an all-day concert to raise funds for a faily who had lost a child in a drowning accident. I also have been helping a friend with a new business he's trying to get off the ground. All these things have put me in contact with literally hundreds, if not thousands of people over the past 7 years. I think you may be forgetting that I went all through high school and college, being surrounded by thousands of people, without one single date or even really making one single friend. Even my best friend from junior high, when someone more fun to hang out with came around, she'd run off with them and leave me behind. I always tried to go out of my way to make sure she did something fun on her birthday and that I gave her a nice gift. One of my birthdays I remember, I had really bad tendinitis, and both hands were all wrapped up, I couldn't move them without pain. I called her and asked her if she wanted to go see a movie on the weekend of my birthday, and she said she was going bowling with her work buddies, but I could tag along if I wanted. Like I could even pick up a bowling ball let alone bowl. This was my best friend, folks. No matter how nice I am, how much I smile, how much eye contact I make, how much I try to joke or be myself, it just doesn't work. That's all people seem to think I deserve. I wish I knew why, but I don't. But at this point, I think it would be a waste of time to try to socialize any more than I have. Until I find out why people just don't like me, why keep doing the same things over and over? I'll just keep getting the same result. But bottom line is, I must say I do think it's really unfair to say I'm not getting "out there" enough or that I'm not doing all I can be doing. And also as has been discussed before, I think the "approach finding your soul mate the same way you approach finding a job" sort of mentality works for some people, but then many other people have met their soul mates when they weren't even trying, or weren't even looking to be with someone. I had decided to be ok with being alone for the rest of my life when I met my ex. I just ran into him without even trying. the more I do get "out there" and the more I do try and keep failing, the more I'm convinced that I'm just going to be one of those people who will find my soul mate without even trying, when I least expect it, or I will live my life alone. I believe a lot of it is in our hands, but I do believe in a higher power, and ultimately, He calls the shots. I could join every club, every dating service, volunteer for every charity in town, I could spend every single minute of free time "out there," but if the Man Upstairs wants me to be alone, I will be. If he wants me to be with someone, I will be. I can't hypnotise someone into loving me. I can't go out, find a cute guy and club him over the head and drag him home by the hair. I can't force someone to fall in love with me. If it's not meant to be, it's not. The ugly awful truth is, no matter how hard some people try, no matter how wonderful they may be, they still end up alone. My main issue is not trying to find places to meet guys. My main issue is how do I live with being alone, should that be God's design for me? How do I keep from crying my eyes out every day and wishing I could just will my heart to just stop beating? I must accept the fact that it very well may never happen. but I just dont' know how to be ok with that.
Hi Nini,

You convey yourself so well in the written word.

I still stand by what Iíve tried to convey, as it pertains to YOU. I agree 100% that ď[I]you donít have to have it all together, be strong and bursting with self-esteem and ready to take on the world before you're fit to love or be loved[/I]Ē. But I never said or implied that. What I did remark on was that I didnít think you would ever find happiness until you dealt better with your issues. I think your past relationship, and how you view yourself and your outlook on life prevents you for moving ahead into a healthy loving relationship. My point being that you are spending a lot of time and energy pondering ď[I]why not me[/I]Ē, when all this time could be utilized to personally improve on the things that are bogging you down Ė how you see yourself, why you think youíre so 'disgusting' that no-one will love you. I donít know many people who refer to themselves that way Ė that says something about the kind of person you THINK you are.

So Iím really not posting generalities, Iím posting my thoughts as they pertain to you and your threads. I think that whether or not you so meet someone special, the priority here is more about YOU personally. And until you turn things around for yourself, you will always be miserable.

You also state that Ö"[I]I've read the threads started by people who married someone they didn't really love just for the sake of having a spouse, then 5 or 10 years down the road are crying about having no passion, feeling numb in the relationship, wanting more, etc. I see no point to that[/I]Ē. By not taking chances in relationships, you WILL be alone. Thatís like saying you like an expensive cashmere sweater, but youíre afraid to wear it for fear it will unravel, so you always keep it in the closet. Dumb analogy, but you get my meaning. Life IS taking chances, even if you fail or even if things donít work out. Also, by trying to prevent pain in advance by NOT investing yourself initially, you may miss out on good experiences EVEN IF the relationship overall doesnít work out. Not every break-up has to or will severely impact your life the way this one has.

You ask how you can love yourself if no-one ever has? With that said, I agree that sometimes love is ďlearning by exampleĒ. Without role models or a caring figure in anyoneís life, I can see how it would be difficult to love yourself, but people do it all the time. (example) The people that are mistreated as children yet grow up to make their life fulfilling and content because despite the poor treatment or neglect THEY KNEW they deserved more. Itís hard work to believe in yourself. And thatís where I think youíre stuck. I donít think you believe in yourself very much. That saddens me because I think that would be a very lonely feeling, no matter how busy a person kept themselves. So yes, itís much harder for a person to give THEMSELVES that, but people do, all the time.

I donít think you have the strength to do anything different at this point. You appear to be someone who feels that they are out of options. Your posts (to me) give off the impression that you are resigned to this current pattern of your life, and it wonít do any good to do anything about it because no matter what you do, itís always the same for you. Again, thatís stuck thinking. Your mind seems set with your current thoughts, and nothing will be able to get better for you if you continue to think the way you do.

Nini, these are just my perceptions from your posts. I donít know anything about you except from them Ė so I can be off base on some things. It makes me feel badly for you that you feel your life and situation is hopeless. I feel bad that you base your self-worth on things that maybe you shouldnít be, and that you canít be thankful for the things that you should be. I will keep you in my thoughts.
[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]

You convey yourself so well in the written word. [/QUOTE]

Thank you.

[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]
I agree 100% that ď[I]you donít have to have it all together, be strong and bursting with self-esteem and ready to take on the world before you're fit to love or be loved[/I]Ē. But I never said or implied that.[/QUOTE]

I guess I misunderstood you. That's how I read your post, sort of.

[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]My point being that you are spending a lot of time and energy pondering ď[I]why not me[/I]Ē, when all this time could be utilized to personally improve on the things that are bogging you down Ė how you see yourself, why you think youíre so 'disgusting' that no-one will love you. I donít know many people who refer to themselves that way Ė that says something about the kind of person you THINK you are.[/QUOTE]

Well, I think that's one of the points I've been trying to make in all my posts. This is why I'm so confused, hurt and conflicted. I DON'T think I'm too disgusting to deserve love. The rest of the world does. And I don't know why. I'm fairly cute, I'm very kind, sweet, giving, I can be quite a bit like Courtney Cox's character on Friends, Monica, in that I can be a bit of a control monger and a bit anal, but I'm working on that, and I think I've come a looonnnggg way. My point was this:No one's perfect. We all have room for improvement. And I know you guys are trying to help, and I sure appreciate the kind words and support, but other people get to do their growing and learning and self-improving in the context of their relationships. Not everyone has to wait until they're all fixed before they get to be happy. Why do I? I didn't think I needed THAT much fixing, but apparently the rest of the world does. :confused: :confused:

[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]...I think that whether or not you so meet someone special, the priority here is more about YOU personally. And until you turn things around for yourself, you will always be miserable.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I have a blind spot or something, but from what I feel, what I can't turn around is that I can't find anyone who will just care about me, be there for me, love me, appreciate me, and enjoy my company for who am, as I am. How do I turn that around for myself? :confused:

[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]You also state that Ö"[I]I've read the threads started by people who married someone they didn't really love just for the sake of having a spouse, then 5 or 10 years down the road are crying about having no passion, feeling numb in the relationship, wanting more, etc. I see no point to that[/I]Ē. By not taking chances in relationships, you WILL be alone. Thatís like saying you like an expensive cashmere sweater, but youíre afraid to wear it for fear it will unravel, so you always keep it in the closet.[/QUOTE]

I feel there's a difference in taking a chance and settling. I have no qualms about taking a chance. But I feel dating someone you find boring, unattractive, dull, and not at all stimulating emotionally, mentally or physically, is a waste of time and energy. Don't I get to have any standards at all like everyone else? Or am I just supposed to date any old geek who asks me out? From what I gather, it seems that you're saying I should "take a chance" i.e., go out with whoever asks me, regardless of whether I like them or have any connection with them. I just don't think that would work for me. Or perhaps you're addressing what I said in a previous post, about being wary of trusting anyone again. I admit, I would be slow to trust again, but if I find someone I have feelings for, I think I'd be willing to try. But I haven't even gotten to that point yet, so I have no way of telling for sure. That's jumping the gun a little.



[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]Itís hard work to believe in yourself. And thatís where I think youíre stuck. I donít think you believe in yourself very much. That saddens me because I think that would be a very lonely feeling, no matter how busy a person kept themselves. So yes, itís much harder for a person to give THEMSELVES that, but people do, all the time.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is very lonely. Maybe I just wasn't born strong enough. But I got tired of trying to disagree with the world a long time ago, I think. Since I was 5 years old, the rest of the world thought I deserved to be spat on (literally), beaten, told to shut up, called names, degraded, humiliated, lied to, etc etc etc. Although I tried hard for a long time, I just gave up disagreeing, I think. So when my ex came along and felt I deserved to be lied to, etc etc etc all that stuff, I think deep down, a part of me just said "Uncle. Who am I to argue? You think I'm a piece of garbage, and I love you and think highly of you, so if that's what you think of me, it must be true." I'm just so tired of arguing. I think that's why it hurts so bad not to have someone who cares about me. I just want someone I don't have to argue with. If I feel I'm smart, talented, kind, honorable, etc etc, I just want someone there who will agree with me. Otherwise, I don't think it means much. I can think I'm the hottest thing since sliced bread, but if no one agrees with me, what good is it?


[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]It makes me feel badly for you that you feel your life and situation is hopeless. I feel bad that you base your self-worth on things that maybe you shouldnít be, and that you canít be thankful for the things that you should be. I will keep you in my thoughts.[/QUOTE]

Well, I appreciate the good thoughts. But as far as what I base my self worth on, I mean, let's face it. Ask anyone who's married with children to give you a list of things that are more important to them than their spouse and children. It would be a very, very short list. Most people would say nothing means anything without my children. My family means more to me than anything. Everything else takes a far back seat to my marriage and kids. Well, I place the same importance on marriage, spouse, children and family. I just don't happen to have any. So if nothing in this world means anywhere near as much to me as my husband and kids, that I would give my life for my kids, but I don't happen to have any, what does that leave?
[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]Hi Nini,

Man, you are a tough little cookie! Do you realize that no matter HOW I word my posts, you are going to come back with a self-defeatist remark, no matter WHAT I say? ;)

Elaboration:
You are lacking the ability to perceive yourself as a worthy, lovable person as you currently are, without a partner.
You feel you need a partner in order to have a worthy life.

And actually, I donít think youíre ďtotally screwedĒ at all. I think you have an ideal of what you desire in life, as it applies to relationships, and no, I donít think you should settle at all when it comes to choosing or dating a man to spend quality intimate time with.

Again, I am trying to convey to you only ONE part of this entire thread, the thing that I have been focusing on from the first post (go back to Elaboration).

If you continue to perseverate on the fact that you have no-one who loves you, it benefits nothing. Itís like an unrequited obsession; this kind of thinking will not produce ANY satisfaction for you, because there is no set answer for finding love, for anyone. Even if you date every night of the week, there is no guarantee that any of those men will be someone that you fall in love with.

Also, love isnít something that is earned. Therefore, you cannot really say that you are ďunworthy of being loved because no-one ever loved youĒ. THAT doesnít matter. There is not one person on this planet who can deem another person loveable or not. There is no standard for loving someone. Thatís why love is such a challenge. What you might envy someone for being in love, may not be love to them at all.

Love is over-rated from the standpoint that everybody is in love. Itís simply not so. A good example is this Relationship Board. How many posters say they are in love with this or that person? Then you read through their posts and (at least I) think thatís not love. Everyone has their own version of love, and not everybodyí version IS the definition of the real thing.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a complete romantic and buying into the whole orchestration of what being in love is all about. However, even true love, over time, ebbs and flows in a relationship. Itís not all ďJerry McGuireĒ, and even the best of partners will falter and forget how much they once adored their mate when at first the feelings were so new that they truly DID feel they didnít need another thing in their lives to feel complete. But in the real world (ask anyone who proclaims True Love and have been married for years and years), even true love can stink.

Again Nini, itís not about all the things youíve done. Itís not about how many times you did or did not date. Itís about how you perceive YOU as it relates to having or not having the love of a partner in your life. This is how you appear to measuring the quality of your life, and basing all things against. This is the only thing I am trying to convey.

Then you end by stating that the one thing you are missing is companionship. THAT is a big difference than saying what you have being posting about being unlovable. Everybody craves companionship on some level on occasion (some more than others). Loneliness is something that many people donít talk about. Itís looked at as some sort of ďsocial illnessĒ. There are more lonely people out there than you would guess. People always think that itís the OTHER person who is having all the fun Ė everyone always thinks that they are the most lonely. I agree with you that lack of companionship can be depressing, and that it is important to be able to connect on a deeper level with people at times Ė whether itís through a romantic partner or not.

And I donít think that a person has to be ďtotally happy giddyĒ if they are alone, but I donít think a person needs to feel so unworthy BECAUSE of lack of companionship either. However, many people do live very happy lives without a partner, and some of that is by choice.

As it pertains to you, maybe you shouldnít seek out or avoid dating opportunities with the goal of falling in love in mind. Give yourself a break from the self imposed pressure you are putting on yourself and making yourself live with day-after-day about the love factor. You canít control it anyway.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, but I have been thinking about it... maybe there are women out there such as Nini and many others who feel unworthy if they dont have a husband, family, kids just as there are men out there that feel unworthy if they dont have a great carreer and make good money??? The problem between the two is that a carreer is something that can be achieved as long as one works to get it so no one bashes one when they say they feel unworthy because they are not successful in there in carreer... the response is generally well go out and get some more education or work harder at the job your at... where as love is something that even with hard work and effort may never be found and I guess thats why many people say you should feel worthy regardless of if you have a partner or not because attaining a partner is something not within your control even if you work hard at it- so therefore people will just say to work on the things that you can control.. ie your self worth... but then it becomes a vicious cycle for that person who needs love to feel worthy. I hope that made sense. I dont know I am just thinking aloud.
[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]Hi Nini,

Man, you are a tough little cookie! Do you realize that no matter HOW I word my posts, you are going to come back with a self-defeatist remark, no matter WHAT I say? ;) [/QUOTE]

LOL! Well, I sure don't mean to be a tough cookie, or to be self-defeating. I guess I see myself as just trying to be realistic. Maybe it's a defense mechanism. If I accept everything you're saying too fast, then that might inspire me to hope, and when those hopes don't pan out, I'll come crashing down to earth again, hurt ten times more than I'm hurt already. You know?


[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]You feel you need a partner in order to have a worthy life.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I really do. I think this is just a deep-seated, ingrained religious, moral and social belief that I don't see going away anytime soon. I just don't buy the "I'm a strong independent woman doing it all on my own and I don't need a man to be happy" line. We were put on this earth to mate and procreate. If you live your whole life without ever loving someone and earning their love in return, you've totally blown it. That's just what I believe.


[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]If you continue to perseverate on the fact that you have no-one who loves you, it benefits nothing. Itís like an unrequited obsession; this kind of thinking will not produce ANY satisfaction for you, because there is no set answer for finding love, for anyone. Even if you date every night of the week, there is no guarantee that any of those men will be someone that you fall in love with.

Also, love isnít something that is earned. Therefore, you cannot really say that you are ďunworthy of being loved because no-one ever loved youĒ. THAT doesnít matter. There is not one person on this planet who can deem another person loveable or not. There is no standard for loving someone. Thatís why love is such a challenge. What you might envy someone for being in love, may not be love to them at all.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I think somewhere, my head knows this. It just can't convince my heart. I know it's possible that I will never find love. And I know the "healthy" thing to do is to figure out how to be ok with that. But the notion is just too awful. It's like trying to be ok with being an athlete, knowing nothing but sports your whole life, then suddenly losing your arms and legs. Now, some people would find a way to be ok with it. Other people might think that life without limbs is worth the bother. I fear I fall into the latter category. I don't really want to expend the energy into figuring out how to be ok on my own, because a life lived alone isn't worth the bother. I'd rather die than accept the belief, or even the possibility that I'll be alone for the rest of my life. But since older women statistically have a harder and harder time finding love, the possibility becomes a little more possible with every passing day. So I guess that's why I treat finding love as though my life depends on it.


[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a complete romantic and buying into the whole orchestration of what being in love is all about. However, even true love, over time, ebbs and flows in a relationship. Itís not all ďJerry McGuireĒ, and even the best of partners will falter and forget how much they once adored their mate when at first the feelings were so new that they truly DID feel they didnít need another thing in their lives to feel complete. But in the real world (ask anyone who proclaims True Love and have been married for years and years), even true love can stink.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree with this. I'd settle for this even, at this point. I don't think I'm afraid of the work that a relationship takes. I just want the chance.


[QUOTE=Wowwwweeee]As it pertains to you, maybe you shouldnít seek out or avoid dating opportunities with the goal of falling in love in mind. Give yourself a break from the self imposed pressure you are putting on yourself and making yourself live with day-after-day about the love factor. You canít control it anyway.[/QUOTE]

I've been thinking about this, too. The more I think about it, the more miserable I get. It's hard, though when you feel your life slipping away, the days tick by and you're not living the way you want to live. I just don't want to get to the end of my life not having lived the way I want to live, not having the things my religion and my heart tell me are the important things in life, i.e. marriage, kids, family.
[QUOTE=ladivapr]nini

just let me tell you this, this world is cruel and I dont want to sound rash but if you want to get some guy you gotta work your best on your physical appareance. Men are attracted to beauty and youth. You will say me how superficial is that but thats written in the bible, men look at outer appearance while god looks in the heart. Of course there is non attractive women that get men but these women are very self-confident thats doesnt seem to be your case. It's like what I read in the sex and the city book women in the 30's are interesting but if we gave the men the possesive look we ruin it all. You still have not answered me what type of men do you like. I'm really afraid you are 'ideal' man is something that just doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]

Hi ladiva. I did answer a few posts back. I'm not looking for a superman. I'm just looking for a nice guy I can connect with. He doesn't have to be rich or gorgeous, just a nice, stable, decent guy with common values and morals, who I connect with. But perhaps that doesn't exist. It sure doesn't seem to. Yes, I know men like youth and beauty, but I can't do anything about being almost 40. The sad fact is women my age have a better chance of being hit by lightning than of getting married. And yes, I take great care of my skin and hair, but I have let my body go a bit in the last year, but even whey I was 30 pounds lighter and looking really good, still no one was interested, so I just said "what's the use? Pass the Haagen Dazs." Today I was so depressed I laid down for a short nap and literally couldn't make myself get up again. I didn't really do anything all day. It's just so hard to give a darn when all you have is the broken dreams of yesterday, and the stale, worn-thin tiny little hope of tomorrow, and nothing about today worth getting out of bed for.
[QUOTE=CoreyP]Sophia, I won't be around my mother too much, she is definitely not possesive, she might even put an announcement on the loud speaker that I am available. I swear if I don't give my mother a grandchild in the next few years I will never hear the end of it. I am under some serious pressure from her to have a kid. Can anyone (female) Help me out here? ;)[/QUOTE]

Sorry, Corey, don't really know what to tell you to get your mom off your back! Perhaps just letting her know "mom, I'd love to get married and have kids, I'm working on it, but God's timing is perfect and it will happen when He wants it to, and not before. In the meantime, PLEASE STEP OFF!!" j/k about the last part. I guess I'm lucky on that score. My mom always told me she wouldn't mind if I never got married or had kids. Lately she's been praying for me to find someone if it's in the cards, but only because I've been so unhappy being alone. If I were happy alone, she'd be happy for me.

And thanks to everyone who checked in on me. I don't know how I missed the last few posts, I guess I was pretty busy last Wednesday. I'm still here I guess. This time of year is always hard, though. The first time my ex and I really spent time together, sort of like a "date within a group" was Halloween and our first official date was Nov. 3. So of course he had to get married on October 5, which almost feels like he deliberately tried to wipe me out of his life altogether. I might as well have never known him or been a part of his life at all.
Well, ranting again. Tomorrow's just going to be hard, that's all. Thankfully up until now I've had all this election nonsense and work to keep my mind off personal things.





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