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[QUOTE=SophiaM]You know LittleRose, these are PRECISELY the thoughts I was having today. I couldn't really sleep that well last night (ok, I got 2 hours, that's something), so my brain might not be functioning at its optimal level, but I just can't help but feel SO disappointed that he even has to think about this. I wish he would tell her to get lost without having to go away to clear his head. It's not like they broke up a month ago--it was more than half a year ago, so I would think he should be able to decide quicker than this. The fact he pulled away to such an extent that he did and is now needing to think about this shows me that he is at least considering the possibility of going back with her. I don't care how much logical sense it makes to me, I still don't like it one bit.

Believe it or not, I WAS actually thinking about telling him tonight that I cannot date him at this time, when he's obviously still emotionally attached to his ex. I'm torn between waiting till he comes back and just telling him now that I'm not interested in dating anyone who's not emotionally ready for it. I mean, let's say he comes back and says he's choosing me, am I supposed to jump up and down for joy and wag my tail like a puppy who just got his favorite biscuit? I really, really resent having to compete with some ex girlfriend over a guy. See, this is what I'm most afraid of is that even if he comes back and wants to be with me, I will not be as enthusiastic about him anymore simply because I just don't feel like he's crazy about me. Nobody who's absolutely smitten with me would need to think about getting back with an ex who supposedly wasn't treating him so well. I just can't be happy about this situation either way:([/QUOTE]

Hi there Sophia,

I'm so outraged and upset for you that NG would pull something like this just when you were opening up to him and starting to feel attached. I can't imagine how he let things get to this point rather than being honest with both you and his ex all along, and I'm bordering on no longer being much of a fan of his :nono:. I wish I could have posted sooner in response to some very kind comments like Goody's last night, but today was very busy and my internet access has been flaky. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to write sooner--how are you doing, Sophia? Please remember that we are all here for you whenever you want to vent, ask questions, etc.--it's okay to wallow now and try to come to some sense of resolution regarding NG. Have you come to any conclusions about how you want to respond to him from now on, or if you're going to wait until after his trip or talk to him before he leaves? For what it's worth, I agree with Little Rose's advice and some of the other posters who agreed with you that you deserve better treatment--no woman should ever have to lower her dignity by competing for a man's interest! In fact, I don't think there is much that is a bigger turnoff to men than seeing women size each other up jealously, hearing them compare themselves to other women and beg for reassurance (do you think she's pretty? prettier than ME?), or otherwise feeling even the tiniest bit threatened by other women, who she doesn't even consider competition. Truly confident women with high self-esteem believe deep down that they are an excellent catch and that many men would love to have them, and this is one important component of inner beauty and confidence that everyone finds attractive and appealing.

My point here is that first of all, you deserve a guy who would never pull a mean and immature stunt like this regarding an ex (or any other woman, for that matter). Come on, he's been broken up with her for twice as long as I've been split from Patrick, and so I really don't think the whole rebound thing is any excuse. Either he never took the time and bothered to use his energy to move on, or he never cared about her all that much but now that she knows he has you, he's all of a sudden interested in her for the simple reason that she seems to be throwing herself at him. He’d have to be really blind not to see why she’s putting such an effort into rekindling their relationship now of all times, and so suddenly after seeing you guys together. I don’t know…to me there seem like a few different possible scenarios could be occurring with NG, and I’m not happy about any of them. So while I definitely think you deserve some answers, I also think you’re probably better off telling NG that he can call you if and only if he gets his head straight and wants to be with you exclusively again. If you are still single, you’ll consider giving him a second chance…that is definitely as nice as I would possibly be to NG if I was in your shoes.

That is both because he doesn’t deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect by you now after dangling a lot of promises in front of you then letting you down big time and because the first possible reason why he might be doing this that comes to mind is as a test of sorts. The way he’s been acting lately reminds me of a man who is uncertain about whether the woman he is dating is right for him—he seems kind of concerned that you will demand more of his time and energy than he is willing to give up, or infringe on his freedom and ability to travel light in life more than he wants. I don’t think you are—it seems more like he’s the one with the issues here …but still, he may have told you about his ex to see if you would react by acting clingy and jealous towards him or if you were the confident and independent woman he wanted and would therefore respond by telling him that you can do better and to get lost. He could also be seeing how threatened you get by other women, whether exes or platonic friends or coworkers, to see how much latitude he’ll have to be around other women without you being jealous, or see if you have the self-esteem not to lower yourself by comparing yourself, or competing, against any other women—you are better than that, and the right man for you will continually act like you are the only woman in the room. That’s the bottom line here, and I am really happy that you see how much better you deserve from the man in your life.

Anyway, whatever his reasons, NG’s behavior was really rude and slimy in my book, though I do grudgingly agree with whoever praised him for at least being honest. Still, none of us should ever waste another minute on a man whose only reaction to his ex resuming contact is to tell her politely that he is involved and happy with someone else now. If he has to think about it at all…well, I don’t think any of us like the implications of that! In your case, Sophia, I might consider giving him another chance if he decides for sure that he wants to be with you and make it up to you, but I’m not sure I see him having the confidence and astuteness to do so…maybe he’s just happier never leaving his little bubble world where he’s already dated all the female inhabitants? I am sorry if this came across as a little blunt; I’m not the best at being sympathetic but I do feel for you big time, Sophia. Unfortunately, as you said, neither of your options are all that great when it comes to NG, but I know one thing you should definitely do: go back to online dating and being willing to consider other date proposals from those cute guys on the street who can’t take their eyes off of you! :D
[QUOTE=LittleRose1982]Well it certainly sounds like he wants to keep you around, but it's likely to be for selfish reasons. He wants one of you, can't decide which one, so he wants you both hanging around so one of you can be "back up", so to speak. That's what it sounds like to me. Of course, I could be wrong. But if he really wanted to be with you the way you want to be with him, the decision would be easy for him. He wouldn't be considering a relationship with her. It's one thing if he has loose ends to tie up in regards to the relationship and needs to seek out a sense of closure from her. But it sounds like he is really considering going back to her.
For that reason, I really think you shouldn't write him back. Don't necessarily ignore all his calls. When he gets back, if he calls, answer the phone. Let him talk. But don't take back the things you said in the e-mail. Don't falter just because he's trying to hang on a bit. Stay strong and prove to him that you don't need him. You'll be more desirable in his eyes if he thinks you're even the slightest bit out of reach. ;)[/QUOTE]

I think this is fantastic're already starting to see just how true it is that people only treat us as well as we demand to be treated. I think NG was starting to take you for granted, as many men do once they sense that they have a 100% hold on a woman and there's no longer much mystery or challenge. Thinking back, I think this is an important reason why many relationships that get too intense too quickly eventually fade out or burn's just very difficult to sustain those feelings of newness and excitement 24/7. Anyway, the reason that NG is still pursuing you is, in my view, because you've pleasantly surprised him by taking a firm stand and refusing to put up with anything other than the caring, devoted treatment you deserve from a boyfriend. I'd like to think it's because of what he said, but if it was, then why wouldn't he have been making this kind of effort to reach out to you all along rather than pulling away and keeping his distance UNTIL you made it clear that you weren't going to put up with having to compete with a loser ex-girlfriend. If he was as smitten with you as he's claiming now, I don't see how he could have restrained himself from making such an effort all along. Sounds to me like he's one of those confused guys who doesn't really know what he wants from women or relationships, so he runs hot and cold...when a woman seems genuinely interested in him, he backs way off, and the only way that it seems possible to rekindle his interest and enthusiasm is to back way off yourself and make him realize he could lose you if he doesn't get his act together. Do you really want to have a man in your life who plays these kind of immature, manipulative games with you as opposed to one who never wavers in his feelings and commitment toward you? Especially one with the gall to believe you'd still have any interest in seeing him, despite what you said in your email, just because he's being nice when he is still stringing you and probably his ex along...did he say anything at all about being a complete idiot to question whether he's rather be with his ex than with you, and being 100% sure that you are the one he wants from now on? If not, then he hasn't demonstrated the basic respect and devotion you should merit from anyone you date. Honestly, I think expecting a man to want you and only you, without having to keep his distance from you and need time and space to consider whether he'd rather be with another woman, is the bare minimum that ANYONE should demand from a significant other.

I know you like NG, Sophia, but this whole situation still really worries me...I don't see any real evidence that anything has changed here. Would NG have even bothered to contact you before leaving if you hadn't stopped contacting him? Is it you he wants, or just the thrill of the chase and the challenge of pursuing you? It did seem like he lost interest until you told him to get lost...I have a hard time imagining that his need for a continual challenge and desire for a woman who is not quite within his grasp will change anytime soon. As LR says, this rather dramatic turnaround in his behavior is almost definitely due to the fact that you stood up for yourself and now seem out of reach, once again presenting a goal for him to pursue. Whether you want to be with him or not, I think contacting him and being nice and understanding is the absolute worst possible move you could make at this point. I'd be willing to bet money that NG would back way off again, if not disappear completely, should you give in and let this go so easily. There's nothing desirable about someone who doesn't believe they deserve only the best treatment and act accordingly, and/or someone who is willing to settle for someone who doesn't meet their standards. So while I almost always agree with GE's wise insights, in this case, I'd urge you to be much more cautious and less forgiving than she suggested. Yes, NG has finally demonstrated that he is somewhat attached to you, but it took you breaking up with him for him to come around. What has really changed here? I can't see that he's giving you what you want and deserve now anymore than he was a few days ago...the only way I would say that you should go ahead and be nice and friendly with him again is if he apologizes profusely for putting you through such stress and uncertainty and swears that you are the only woman he has any interest in.

It actually really makes me mad on your behalf that he has the arrogance to write to you, essentially ignoring what you've said, and STILL won't give you any indication that he's made a firm decision to keep his ex out of his life from now on. Please don't let this half-hearted effort placate you to the point where you let him off the hook for what in my opinion was an unacceptable way to treat you. If I was in your shoes, I would tell NG thanks but no thanks--you certainly don't need to wait around for some guy who even had to consider whether or not he wanted to be with an ex rather than you, and who continues to fail to apologize, tell you he was an idiot to even have to think about his ex's desperate attempt to crawl back to him, and do anything and everything to make it up to you and show you how sorry he is and how much he truly cares about you. If you still have feelings for him and don't want to be quite so definite in what you tell him, I think you should nonetheless tell him that what he's put you through is completely unacceptable to you and that you deserve a man who has no doubts whatsoever about whether he wants to be with you and only you. Then tell him you'll consider letting him make it up to you, assuming he shows sufficient remorse and devotion from now on, but only if he is firmly committed to never having anything to do with his ex again. That's really the least he can do, and the fact that he's still hanging around as if he deserves a chance WITHOUT swearing off his ex and begging your forgiveness demonstrates either an alarming amount of arrogance or cluelessness, neither of which make me nearly as big a fan of him as your man as I was before he started with all this nonsense. As someone who wants the best for you and most of all wants you to avoid being hurt again, I just can't be that enthusiastic about any guy who would put you through such painful turmoil just as you were starting to get attached and vulnerable to him. Whether or not he really is a player and this is all just an ego trip to him, or whether he's genuinely confused, you are still an amazing woman and a fantastic catch who should only be with a man who is completely crazy about you and 100% committed to you and you alone. I strongly suggest that you read LittleRose and Hiya's posts over again and try to think through this situation as objectively as possible. What would you advise Greeneyes or I to do if we posted our concerns about the exact situation you're going through with NG? Under what circumstances or conditions would you tell us that it would be acceptable to take him back, if any? What standards of behavior and commitment would you advise us to demand if we did decide to give our NGs another chance? Somehow I don't think you'd suggest that we let him off as easily and be as nice and generous as you proposed being in your most recent post...but only you can determine what the best course of action is for you. All we want is to see you treated like the wonderful woman you are and the only way to achieve this is to demand it and refuse to settle for anything less. Well Sophia, I'm sorry for being so blunt here, I just feel protective toward you and don't want you to settle for anything less than what you deserve from someone you are supposed to love and trust completely. I guess this was one of those not so concise emails you were referring to? Hopefully you made it all the way through my ramblings and have found some comfort and strength in all the support you have here :).
[QUOTE=SophiaM]I would say that in spite of the confusion and some uncertain feelings, I wouldn't really call this whole thing "an ordeal." It's too strong of a word for sure. I mean, NG doesn't really "owe" me anything at this point, just as I don't owe him anything. At the same time, I wouldn't want to be put on hold, either. I really don't know what to expect from tomorrow because he said today that his best friend will be in town with a new girlfriend and would I mind if we had dinner with them. I met this guy a few times, so I just felt weird saying "no." Maybe I shouldn't take NG so seriously and instead just go out with him whenever I have free time, and whatever happens just happens? Anyway, I'm off to bed now. I'll let you know how it goes.[/QUOTE]

Okay...Sophia, now that Goody is a year older and wiser :eek: (BTW, thanks for the birthday wish ;) ) you may be right in the sense that it is no big "ordeal" but it is to your family & friends here who care about you so much.

Sure, NG doesn't owe you anything but I do think that he does owe you a followup of how clear his head is now. And I must say, with all due respect, that I find it quite convenient and "wimpy" of him to have his best friend and new girlfriend along. Why not bring all of us along too!!! :bouncing: I think that is mighty cowardly of Mr. NG and if you could come up with somebody you would like to bring along I would.

Bottomline, Sophia, you will know tonight where this all stands in your mind & your heart of this I am sure. And your friends here will stand by you no matter what decision you may come to. As Greeneyes has already said, it is your decision to make and yours alone. We all just want you to be happy, is all. It has been 4 weeks since you have seen one another and you will have a pretty good measurement of how things are going to go after you see NG tonight and we eagerly await.

So....the big question is, what are you going to wear??? You've had a night to sleep on it so what's the final decision???

(((HUGS))) ~ Goody :wave:

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