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Relationship Health Message Board


Relationship Health Board Index


[QUOTE=greeneyes100]GG, there is NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING SINGLE! You've got to get over this notion that you are less than because you are single. Marriage is not a ticket to happiness. Look at all the people living out their lives in dead-end marriages, mostly for the sake of security. You are in your prime right now, beautiful, and intelligent. The right guy will come along before you know it. But, until then, enjoy being single now! That's when you usually bump into Mr. Right--when you are happy with your life and yourself as a single person. It is a very attractive and appealing quality and when it shows, it attracts eligible men like magnets!

I'm sorry you are feeling down, I really am. But don't let society tell you that there is something wrong with being single. I think too many people are pressured by society to think the only route to happiness it through marriage and "Happily Ever After".

I really think you should post a personal ad--you would get so many emails and could pick and choose your suitors, who I'm sure would give their right arm to date you. :wave:[/QUOTE]
Thank you GE for reminding me that there IS nothing wrong with being single. Sometimes it is so hard to realize that because society does try to make you feel as if something is wrong with you if you are single. If I wanted just a boyfriend I could get one no problem---anyone could, but I want the RIGHT one and for some people (like me unfortunately) it takes more time. I feel so lonely at times and I do wish that I had a SO, but I know that it would be a lot easier to be single if people didn't always make such a big deal about it. It's like they are sizing me up to see what is wrong with me--so they can understand why I don't have anyone and THAT is what makes me feel so uncomfortable and less than.
No Sophia, please don't do it! You are way better than him and way better than that...he knew where to reach you if he wanted to talk again. I bet he's still being indecisive and flaky with his loser ex nipping at his heels :rolleyes:...remember it's so much better to be alone than to be settling. It drives me nuts that there are people out there trying to make you and GG somehow feel lacking because you aren't in relationships! I really don't understand why so many women are so obsessed with marriage and think it's better somehow to be married than single...they must either be REALLY traditional or extremely insecure and needy. I can't imagine any other reason to think it's better to be boring and stuck with one guy for the rest of your life, like that's somehow admirable...yuck! I could marry any one of a number of guys I know and have known, and I'd be miserable, rather than free to date all the guys I want and do whatever I want. If I was married, I'd definitely remember my single days with fondness, that's for sure! I think I'd be jealous of single people, so I don't get why many married people seem to think it should be the other way around and try so hard to make single people feel that it should be, too (especially since so few people are truly happy and fulfilled in their marriages and relationships). Please don't let their pettiness drag you down and influence you to settle...and remember that poeple who are content with their own lives don't worry about what other people do or judge them. It's only miserable people who want other people to feel miserable, I guess so they can feel better about their own miserable lives. But there is NOTHING inherently better about being married and a lot that is undesirable, especially from an enlightened, independent female point of view. It's sad to me that the cult of marriage has taken over, like that awful Desperate Housewives show with old miserable suburban ladies being such a big deal now (instead of Sex and the City being the hit show in the 90s when Clinton was in charge and everything was so much better)...I guess settling down and sleeping with the same man, being surrounded by little family pods all over suburbia, just seems really unpleasant and repressive to me. But even if you want domesticity, I still think you should reject any ideas that women are better if they're settled down and preferably married.

You are so much cooler, smarter, and prettier than the vast majority of women, married or single (and if you think about it, there are a lot of pretty single women out there and a lot of really frumpy, dumpy married women, not to mention a whole lot of cheating husbands). Anyway, NG is WAY beneath you and not even remotely worthy of your attention...someone much better will come along soon :) especially if you believe that, stay positive, and keep being proactive. I really think that's true...and maybe if you want a relationship less, you will fall into one more naturally? I've noticed this has been the case almost every time I've gotten involved in the past, that I didn't really want to find a new boyfriend, so who knows? But I know that a woman who looks like you can't really avoid guys, so I'd just have fun maybe until you leave NYC when you can and find a more relationship-friendly but still urban area? I don't know, but I can't imagine that I'd be able to find a satisfactory relationship in NYC. I'm inclined to think that the lack of relationship oriented guys you're finding has more to do with your location than with your desirability as a partner. Also, it's a really diverse, busy city, and people go out a ton because they all live near each other--do you think that helps explain why guys there seem tougher to pin down, so to speak (though I still don't really understand the superiority of weekend night dates)? Maybe it's more of a single city? In any event, hang in there and hold out for a lot better than NG, because you deserve a lot more than he is capable of giving. I think you're awesome and I'm sure a great guy will too any day now...:)
[QUOTE=glamourgal]Tooshie--haha, that made my day too :D !!

Have you decided what you are going to do tonight Sophia? I guess I am just going to stay home and work on schoolwork---so fun! I actually saw a cute guy today and he kept craning his neck around to look at me. Normally I would have at least smiled or something, but for some reason I felt nervous and I ended up walking away. Then I was so mad at myself!! It's not like I run into cute guys all of the time. I have no idea whatsoever why I felt nervous. So, another little chance gone by.[/QUOTE]

GG, too bad about the cute guy, but if he lives in your neighborhood, hopefully you'll run into him again! I can understand about being nervous in that situation, though--I would be too. It's especially hard not to be nervous when you like the guy and find him attractive! Still, that shows you that if only you put yourself out there, there will be guys who would love to talk to you. It's only a matter of time.

Well, I did go out with my friend, and shortly after we got there, Steve showed up with his friends. I was somewhat surprised because I thought he was going to call first. I can't believe he had asked me if my friends were cute. :rolleyes: First of all, one of his friends was married and was there with his wife, another one was accompanied by some girl the first couple were trying to set him up with, and the only single and available guy was seriously overweight, so my friend had no interest in him whatsoever! They didn't offer us a drink, either. I didn't really stay long because it was miserable out and I didn't want to get home too late, so Steve walked me to the train station. He wants to see me again, though, and asked me to go to a movie tomorrow. I told him tomorrow is not good, so maybe monday. I don't know...He is kind of strange, I think. I can't figure out if he really likes me or not. He took me for drinks and dinner on the first date and also on the next two dates and paid for everything. So I guess I shouldn't be too insulted that he didn't offer this time? He is kind of immature, I have to admit, and so are his friends. I can't believe they are the same age as me, the way they act. They look older but act way younger. I mean, NG was the same age but he was so much more mature. It's crazy! I wonder if I should continue going out with Steve or not. He is definitely handsome and has a lot of knowledge, but his cluelessness and immaturity are not the most appealing qualities. It's a bizarre combination, really. Not sure what to think.
[QUOTE=goody2shuz]
I don't know, Sophia....it's amazing but sometimes giving feedback will at least help the next girl in line....think about it if each of the guys you dated through online dating hears the same feedback from his dates eventually if he wants something to work out he will make some changes for the better. You do owe it to your fellow women...same goes for the guys giving feedback to the girls....afterall, each wants to succeed in the world of dating and perhaps on these online dating sites they should have an evaluation box after each date. :D Hmmmmm.....that may be a great idea!!! :bouncing:

Anyway....what are your thoughts...do you think this guy is really clueless or just inconsiderate and rude??? ~ Goody[/QUOTE]

To be honest, Goody, "helping the next girl in line" is not my priority at all. I'm happy to help or offer my perspective to my friends here, but why should I care about some anonymous "next girl" getting all the benefits of my hard work?;) If I were indeed able to affect his cluelessness in a positive way and make him into a "perfect boyfriend," then I would be keeping him! :D

Well, I don't know what I'm going to do with him yet. I did tell him though not to ever use the word "smooch" again, and he was genuinely surprised. He thought I liked it the first time he used it. I told him I hated it and that it sounded goofy and unromantic. So as you can see, I AM trying to make him a better man! I tend to think he is thoroughly clueless, although he has his moments of brilliance, as in: he offers me a seat while he's standing, always walks me to the train station and yesterday he held an umbrella for me and tried to hug me close to him so I wouldn't get wet. He must be somewhat interested if he keeps asking me out, so maybe I should at least see if he can be "trained." I honestly think he's pretty clueless rather than being deliberately thoughtless, but then again, maybe I'm giving him too much of a benefit of the doubt.
[QUOTE=greeneyes100]I just read your post, Sophia, about your date. I think if you feel like you could develop feelings for this man, maybe you should see him a few more times. You said you are attracted to him. Maybe he thinks you don't like him, and maybe you don't really like him that much. Men need feedback just as much as women. They don't want someone who is desperate, but they would like to be thrown a bone once in awhile! The trick is just not to give too much too soon.

I think, as far as this man, you are not quite sure whether you want to pursue something with him. From your posts, it doesn't sound like you feel a lot of chemistry with him intellectually, although you are attracted physically.

Only you know how you feel, but don't make any decisions out of desperation. There are plenty of other men out there who may be better suited for you. Just keep your options open until you know for sure how you feel.

As far as myself, I went out Friday night a little while. I layed around all day yesterday. I got a cold from Raj! He told me he was just getting over a cold, but that it wasn't contangious anymore. I'm already feeling better though. I had a sore throat Friday and yesterday and now it feels better, so I'm glad about that. I've been thinking about him off and on and I've been wondering if he has been thinking about me.

I think I'm in the right frame of mind to handle whatever becomes of our relationship. One thing I've really learned is that when I don't expect anything to happen, I never get disappointed and sometimes get pleasantly surprised. ;)[/QUOTE]

GE, I like him; I just wish he could be more mature and a bit more "suave." Then again, just because someone is socially sophisticated doesn't always translate to them being a good person at heart or interested in a committed relationship, etc. Some men just know the right things to say and do, but they do so only as "part of the game" because it can lead them somewhere with a woman. And some men just never mature, like my first ex-bf who is in his 40s and still acts like a frat boy. I don't think there are "plenty" of desirable men out there in terms of both attractiveness, good personality, admirable character, and some success career-wise. It is extremely hard to find, from my and my friends experience. Extremely. So if I think a guy has some potential, I don't want to give up too quickly. Just as long as he's not a jerk. Jerks can't really be "trained" to become decent guys; it's just who they are.

Sorry about your cold. Try to get some rest and drink lots of fluids and hot tea with lemon and honey (my favorite cold remedy!). Also taking large quantities of echinacea 4-5 times a day helps. I just got over a cold too and that's what helped me, I didn't even bother going to a doctor.
[QUOTE=SophiaM]To be honest, Goody, "helping the next girl in line" is not my priority at all. I'm happy to help or offer my perspective to my friends here, but why should I care about some anonymous "next girl" getting all the benefits of my hard work?;) If I were indeed able to affect his cluelessness in a positive way and make him into a "perfect boyfriend," then I would be keeping him! :D [/QUOTE] Hehehehehehehe :D Of course, Sophia....I just was gauging whether or not you thought you would be up to the challenge. You should definitely reap the benefits...and deservingly so. :angel:

[QUOTE=SophiaM]Well, I don't know what I'm going to do with him yet. I did tell him though not to ever use the word "smooch" again, and he was genuinely surprised. He thought I liked it the first time he used it. I told him I hated it and that it sounded goofy and unromantic. So as you can see, I AM trying to make him a better man! I tend to think he is thoroughly clueless, although he has his moments of brilliance, as in: he offers me a seat while he's standing, always walks me to the train station and yesterday he held an umbrella for me and tried to hug me close to him so I wouldn't get wet. He must be somewhat interested if he keeps asking me out, so maybe I should at least see if he can be "trained." I honestly think he's pretty clueless rather than being deliberately thoughtless, but then again, maybe I'm giving him too much of a benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE] You know, the more you describe him, the more that I see how he IS interested. I like how you were able to tell him how he is not to use the word "smooch" again!!! :D I bet that's the last we'll be hearing of that in his vocabulary!!! I think perhaps another woman in his past just wasn't bold enough to tell him so....and what Steve needs most in his life is a woman like you who cares enough to tell him so. I think you may be right....that he is "clueless" in the ways of dating....he certainly is a gentleman and is interested. I say hang in there and keep him on his toes just like you have. I really don't think you are giving him too much benefit of the doubt....I agree with GE, you should give him some more time....he does sound interesting although he may be a little bit of a challenge. ;) Nothing wrong with that...I like guys who are a bit challenging. Keeps you on your toes too. ;)

Sorry....I didn't mean to imply putting work into something and just handing it off to someone else....just if things definitely are not going to work out a feedback/evaluation may be helpful in the world of online dating.

(((HUGS))) ~ Goody :wave:
How did everyone's weekends turn out? For what it's worth, Sophia, I agree with GG that there's no need to rule out Steve at this point as long as you still see some potential in him. It doesn't sound like he's been deliberately rude or neglectful--to me it definitely sounds like he's into you, so why not give it a little more time and see how things turn out? I think Realguy makes a good point, one I guess I've been struggling with myself. It seems like it's tough to find a balance between giving someone a fair chance and not wasting time with someone you know isn't the right person for you...and I guess it also varies depending on how eager you are to find a partner, how much you like or dislike a potential match, how busy you are, what other prospects are available, etc. I'd be very interested to hear how you guys go about evaluating when someone is worthy of more of your time and of getting to know better and when it's time to call it quits and move on. When in doubt, it seems to me to make sense to give a prospect another chance, as people don't always act normally when they are dating and/or just starting to get to know someone, especially if they like the person (which usually makes one nervous). I think that's what's going on with Steve, Sophia--I bet he's really impressed and infatuated with you and doesn't know quite how to behave, what pleases you and what turns you off, how to show you he likes you without coming on too strong, etc. I think you're best off being honest with him like you were about the smooches and make sure not to assume that he knows any better when he does or fails to do something that rubs you the wrong way. It's not about training him for future girls if things don't work out but more about training him for yourself by teaching him what impresses you and what's important to you along with what's not. To me, he sounds like a pretty sweet, occasionally bumbling and clueless guy who nonetheless tries hard and seems to be pretty reliable so far. That would appeal to me especially if he was intellectually and physically attractive--how do you feel about him? How much more time would you be willing to spend on him if he didn't win you over yet or soon?

I'm kind of wondering that myself about this guy I've seen about three times. I like him, he's sweet and smart and cute and a good kisser, but I'm not totally bowled over by him. I'm impressed by a lot of things about him and we have really interesting conversations especially once we warm up to each other--how do I know if it's worth spending more time with him or if I should cut my losses, figuring that I'd already be blown away if it was going to happen? I don't want to waste time with someone when I could be getting to know someone who'd be a better match for me, but I also don't want to write off anyone prematurely, especially when the person is pretty shy, reserved, and probably takes a while to fully emerge from his shell when getting to know someone new. It's a tough call...anyway, that guy is still in the picture for now, though I need to call him soon if he's going to stay that way. I'm a little torn after a great date I had last night even though I'm more than happy to date multiple guys and not at all in a rush to choose just one. The guy I met last night was really cute, smart, and successful. We had a lot of fun and when I drank a little too much, he drove more than an hour roundtrip out of his way to bring me home, which was really sweet. I didn't want the night to end and was getting anxious to hook up with someone hot, so I invited him to stay over, which turned out to be a great idea. I'm not at all conservative or traditional when it comes to sex but you never know, so I wasn't really sure if I'd hear from him again (particularly because I got the dreaded, "Give me a call sometime" when he left this morning), but I was pleasantly surprised when he called tonight just to chat, see how I was doing and if I got my car back, etc. and also to say he'd had a really great time. Since I like him a lot, I was pretty happy about that and hope he stays in the picture at least for the time being...is it wrong that I don't see that as in any way conflicting with dating this other guy or continuing to date more new guys? And does anyone have any advice about how I can tell when it's no longer worth taking more time to get to know someone? Thanks--I hope you all had a great weekend :).
Hi everyone,

You guys give such great advice--I don't know why you wouldn't think you don't, Rose! I've agreed completely with almost everything you've ever said and I'm often very impressed with your insights and sensitivity. And HIT, you make an excellent point...it's not necessarily a bad thing to let things develop a little slower than I'm used to, because I think some of my past relationships have gotten too intense and serious too quickly which caused problems later. As far as the guy I've been seeing for awhile, I'm definitely not spending a lot of time thinking about him and anticipating when I see him next, as he's a bit bland and I forgot to call him for awhile. I sent him an email last night saying I'd be up for getting together again (he'd called before last weekend to see if I wanted to go out then), so I'll see what he says...I think it's worth going on at least one more date before I decide anything one way or another, but maybe he'll be frustrated with me being hard to reach and make the decision for me.

As for the guy I saw over the weekend who spent the night, I'm really glad that happened--it was quite a night! I have a really high sex drive and need to fool around every so often, so it was good timing, and I'm with you, GE, that any guy who's going to be judgmental and have a prudish, conservative double standard about women who get physical quickly isn't worth our time. I don't get attached emotionally when I'm physical with a guy, so I figure that as long as I'm safe and generally avoid going all the way, it's all in good fun and pretty satisfying for me. I'm not so sure about sleeping with more than one guy at a time, though it does feel deliciously naughty and fun in the right circumstances...I'll just wait and see how things go. I do know that ever since I was a little girl, I've been excited to sexually experience a wide variety of men, and I definitely don't want to deny myself more opportunities by settling down with just one guy any time soon. It's not like I'm lacking for experience now, but the one thing that nagged me when I was with exes was the thought of never sleeping with any other guys if we were to stay together permanently, which made me realize I'm too young for that kind of committment.

Anyway, I agree with you, GE, that hooking up soon after starting to date doesn't necessarily preclude a relationship, as I've had and seen too many examples to the contrary. I've never really understood why some people are willing to get seriously involved with people before ensuring that they'll have a good sex life--to me, that's just absolutely essential and the only way to know for sure is to experiment, but I guess it's not a wise idea for people who can't help but get emotionally attached to people with whom they hook up. Well, to each his own, but I haven't been disappointed once by getting physical too soon, and it doesn't sound like you have either, GE :). I hope you aren't still feeling insecure about Raj--no matter how great a catch he is, please always remember that he's the one who's lucky to have you, even if the converse of that is also true. I hope things work out with that situation just the way you want...it sounds like you have reasonable expectations and a good attitude which definitely bodes well, so good luck!

Sophia, as far as Steve goes, I think you should assume that he's interested as long as he's asking you out. He might just be a slow mover as Hiya pointed out, especially since he's not that smooth, or maybe he just assumes you'd prefer that he not try to be physical too quickly. If you want him to speed things up, I'd suggest that you definitely don't talk to him about it--that will make him feel chastised and lame and insecure. Instead, show him how you feel by taking the lead and being more assertive when it comes to demonstrating physical affection. But since he's not on the site these days and keeps asking you out, I don't see any reason to think he's not interested. How do you feel about him, more importantly? Also, I'm really sorry to hear you've been missing your ex--I know how you feel and how tough that can be, particularly when you're lonely and missing him even while out with other guys. Can you remind me which ex the guy who moved to Europe was? I can also go back and check your previous posts and messages...anyway, I wish I had some great advice to help you feel better about him, but I don't think there are any easy answers. I do think you're probably missing him because you're lacking a guy in your life who really excites you--I've noticed that I start getting really nostalgic about my first ex, despite the fact that we can't get along to save our lives, whenever I'm not interested in anyone else. But lately I've been missing Patrick regardless of who else is around, so I understand that it's not always that simple. But unless your ex treated you really well and you could see yourself truly happy with him exactly as he is now, I don't think it would be healthy for you to consider a future with him as a possibility, even if he does someday return from Europe or you go there. You really deserve someone who will adore, worship, and respect you unconditionally, and from what I've heard, you haven't found that guy yet...I can't help feeling like none of your exes, at least none that you've told us about, are even close to being good enough, to being the kind of sweet, generous, caring lover that you deserve. If he's caused you pain and anxiety in the past, I don't think he's worthy of another chance with him...do you think you're missing him because he's really the one for you or because it's natural to long for an ex when you don't have a guy to focus your excitement and imagination on in the present?

On the other hand, GE makes a great point that most love affairs don't work out because one or both partners get scared of being vulnerable and intimate or alternately, they get scared of losing their partner or needing them too much and start to act strangely as a result. Looking back, I think we all fall prey to this to a certain extent, but I think Rose is 100% right that we go through everything we experience with failed relationships so that we can make it work when we finally meet the right person. As painful as it's been, I'm glad in some ways that I went through losing Patrick because I'd always been the one to leave and never really had my heart broken before him...now that it's happened, I know I can survive and that love is worth taking the risk. I used to think I wouldn't possibly be able to go on without him, but since I have, even though I still miss him considerably, I think it will help me to fall in love again without fear sometime in the future when the timing is right and I meet the right guy. I really do think that everything happens for a reason and that we learn valuable lessons which benefit us in the future from each experience, no matter how painful or traumatic.
[QUOTE=greeneyes100]Yes, you are right, I have been hurt in the past and I'm probably more guarded with my emotions because of it. That's why I think I can handle a FWB relationship more than most. Rarely, these type of relationships do turn into romantic ones, but I'm not expecting it too. I am happy just to have a fling with him. I know you think I"m not being honest, but it's the truth.[/QUOTE]

Greeneyes ~ I know that you have been hurt in the past more than you may think. And, yes you are guarding your emotions....heck what better way to do so than in a FWB type relationship. But then I read posts like the following...

[QUOTE]I really do want a steady boyfriend though and I have been talking to some other men that are looking for that, so I'm going to meet some of them too.[/QUOTE]

And from being here with many woman who have tried to spare themselves from being hurt and protecting themselves from further hurt, it is from my observation that they only end up getting more hurt in a FWB relationship than if they hadn't.

You have passion and want to feel it and that is wonderful, but you also want someone to love & respect you.....just knowing that Raj liked you without makeup and for who you are inside is very important to you. That is difficult to find in a FWB relationship but something you seem to want with Raj. I guess that is why you're going with dating others as well???

I just don't want you to get hurt is all....you worked so hard to get back on your own two feet from your past...I don't want you getting knocked down again. I step in when I see someone that has the potential of being hurt after working so hard on picking herself back up after so much hurt & disappointment. I hope you know that my intentions are only good.

~ Goody
Any guy who would be less interested in a woman who hooks up with him right away is a sexist hypocrite (after all, he consented too) whose sexual mores are riddled with insecurity and double standards--i.e., he's not remotely worthy of any woman worth having, especially you, GE! But I don't think it's even true that he'd be more interested if you hadn't slept together right away, though I guess that depends on what you're referring to him being more interested in. If you mean a relationship with you or anything more than a casual hookup, do you really have any reason to think that he didn't mean it when he let you know off the bat that he was only looking for a FWB? To me, it's a lot more likely that he said he might be interested in more with the right person to come off looking better than it is likely that he actually is looking for more than sex and just doesn't want it with you. That's why I think you need to decide exactly what you want from him and what you're willing to put up to and make decisions accordingly. But for the most part, if a guy says he only wants a FWB, the odds are pretty low that he's going to change his mind anytime soon--I guess the question is if you want that too or if you're not going to be happy with having a purely physical relationship with him. The answer to that question will make things a lot easier for you, if you ask me. If you're not satisfied with only hookups, then you should move on, and if you are, then there's really no need to worry about playing your cards right and doing the dating dance to get him interested in a relationship, because you need to assume that's not going to happen in order to be satisfied with the arrangement and not disappointed. Do you think you agreed to the FWB situation because of the possibility that it could turn into more--would you still want it if there was absolutely no chance of it? If so, I think you'd be well-served by assuming there isn't--not only will you avoid disappointment if he sticks to his original goals and set yourself up to be pleasantly surprised if for some reason he changes his mind, but you will also be liberated from having to play games or hold back in order to hook him. If your relationship is purely physical, then you have no need to worry about when to call back and refrain from asking him to hang out, because you're not trying to ensnare him as a boyfriend, merely sticking to the terms of your original agreement. At this point, it seems a little to me like you are treating him as a potential boyfriend, while nothing he's done really warrants that, and perhaps the reason why you don't feel quite on the same page is that he's puzzled as to why you're playing hard to get to some degree. Does that make sense at all? While he'd probably expect that in a dating situation, in a FWB scenario, there's no reason to have to be at all coy or hold back from asking him to hang out again or wait awhile to see him in order to increase his interest--none of that is necessary in a purely physical relationship, and it sounds to me like you'd be happier freeing yourself from playing hard to get assuming you are willing to continue on with Raj according to the original FWB arrangement.

I'm kind of in the same boat with the other guy from last weekend--assuming I want to pursue it, I'm not really sure whether I'd want to date him or just have a FWB situation. Probably the latter, as I definitely don't want to stop dating other guys anytime soon. I think your advice makes a lot of sense, GE, if I want to date him, but I'm just not sure if I do. I think Rose is right that we're both unsure of how to proceed--I get the feeling he thinks he's put the ball in my court by calling right away and leaving it up to me to contact him again. Guys get funny when they aren't sure whether or not women are using them purely for sexual gratification--they kind of take on the stereotypical feminine role in dating. It's not that I've had a ton of experience being in that situation, but it's definitely happened numerous times that I've only been interested in hooking up with a guy and didn't want anything more--for some reason that attitude seems to pique their interest and make them more timid, almost demure, about being the aggressor. Actually, GE, if you do pursue things with Raj, my advice would be to change tacts from treating him as a guy you're dating to treating him as someone in whom your only interest is physical...if he is going to come around and want more than sex with you, that's the most likely way it will happen, at least in my opinion and experience. The most important thing is that you be happy with the arrangement, and as long as you feel that way, I think you should hang in there and see what happens, but it's ultimately up to you and you know we will support you in any decision you make. So anyway guys, thanks a ton for your advice, especially Rose--your last post was absolutely wonderful, right on the money and very helpful. Everything you said rings true and makes perfect sense to me, and I plan on following your advice to the letter...I guess first though I need to figure out whether I want to proceed with the guy from last weekend at all. We didn't actually sleep together, as I figured it'd be smarter and safer to stick to everything else, and I must admit the idea of following through is appealing, but for some reason I just don't know at this point. However it does feel great to have a plan and have your support and advice, everyone, so thanks again, and I will definitely keep you all posted! :) I hope you are all having a great weekend so far!
[QUOTE=glamourgal]GE, I am so sorry for how things turned out with Raj. At least you know for sure now about what his intentions were, so now you can say adios and move on to someone who treats you better and loves you for who you are! I know you must be disappointed, but I am proud of you for looking at the good things that came from this---that you now know what you want, and what you don't want.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with this--while it has got to be somewhat disappointing, I think overall this experience has been good in that it really helped clarify what you do and don't want from the guys you date. You definitely deserve to have everything you want and not to settle for anything less, so I think you've made a very wise and mature decision here. I also think it's good to realize that when a guy tells you what he wants, he's usually being honest and it's smart to take him at his word rather than hope he'll come around and decide he wants something he admits is unlikely (in this case, a serious relationship). I guess I respect him for being upfront, but I think he's a slimeball and an idiot for not wanting to date you and win you over. I also think he's losing out by closing himself off to more than sex, but for whatever reason, I think he's only trying to save face and look like less of a player by saying he'd be open for more than a physical relationship with the right person. Whether he has problems with intimacy or commitment or both, it's clear that he's not able to give you what you want, and I'm very glad this became apparent sooner rather than later, because there are a lot of guys out there who would love to take you out on fun dates, romance you, be interested in really getting to know you, and perhaps become the kind of boyfriend you want. Thus it's definitely your gain and Raj's loss that he isn't interested in more than flings.

I really admire you GE, for having the confidence and self-respect to realize you deserve nothing less than exactly what you want and to go after that--all in all, I bet this experience will turn out to really help you narrow down the guys you're willing to date based on what kind of relationship you and they are looking for. This should also help you narrow down the places you're looking for guys, as there's really not much point in setting yourself up for a challenge and likely disappointment by dating men who advertise that they are searching for purely physical encounters. You deserve SO much better than an immature, self-centered guy who doesn't respect or value women enough to want anything more than sex from them. I know there are examples of men with this outlook who change their minds after meeting a certain woman, but I think the odds of this are slim enough to make it worth your while to avoid these types. Especially because I would think that among men in your age range, this is the exception rather than the general trend--once men get established in or close to ending their careers, I'd think there'd be plenty of them who are looking for a committed relationship, a companion, and a partner...and any one of them would be very lucky to have you!!

The same is true for you, Sophia, and because you deserve nothing less than a wonderful guy who gives you everything you want in a relationship, I feel very strongly that NG isn't worth one more second of your time or energy. I don't see any upside for you in contacting him again for any reason--it seems unlikely to benefit you in any way and likely to leave you feeling sad and disappointed. Remember that it was his loss and his mistake not to seize his opportunity to be with you, and that he really didn't treat you nicely enough to deserve any consideration or kind treatment from you now or anytime in the future. I'm afraid that reaching out to him would only make you feel worse about what happened and compromise both your dignity as well as your efforts to put the past in the past and find someone really worthy of your company, your thoughtfulness, and your energy. If you think about what would happen, I think you'd feel worse about things no matter how NG responded--if he ignored your birthday wishes, I'd imagine you wouldn't feel particularly great, and if he responded and thanked you, it would probably only remind you of liking him and being disappointed that things didn't work out between you two. If anyone should reach out with a peace offering, it should be him, and he certainly knows how to reach you if he has any interest in resuming contact. But personally, I think you're way too good for someone that wishy washy and non-confrontational. I know it's hard to turn your back permanently on promising guys from the past, believe me, looking back only get in the way of moving forward and finding the happiness you deserve.
[QUOTE=stacykgb20] If you think about what would happen, I think you'd feel worse about things no matter how NG responded--if he ignored your birthday wishes, I'd imagine you wouldn't feel particularly great, and if he responded and thanked you, it would probably only remind you of liking him and being disappointed that things didn't work out between you two. If anyone should reach out with a peace offering, it should be him, and he certainly knows how to reach you if he has any interest in resuming contact. But personally, I think you're way too good for someone that wishy washy and non-confrontational. I know it's hard to turn your back permanently on promising guys from the past, believe me, looking back only get in the way of moving forward and finding the happiness you deserve.[/QUOTE]
Hey Sophia, in answer to your question about sending birthday wishes to NG I agree with what Stacy said above. I know how easy it is to look back, especially when you can't forsee anyone to look forward to, but like Stacy said, if you do contact him and he does or doesn't reply it will probably only end up making you feel bad. I don't understand why it's so hard to find someone these days--it is so aggrivating!! I am going to a wedding this weekend and another wedding that was rescheduled for the next weekend (this is the one that there are two different guys that the bride and groom want me to meet). I guess it is something to do, but I am really not looking forward to going. I am so tired of always being dateless at weddings while everyone else is coupled off. As far as the other guy, I am just going to play it by ear--so far neither he nor I have been able to get our schedules together for us to meet.
RDB, please don't be so hard on yourself...you're understandably going to feel pretty down and glum right now, so it's probably not the best time to do a lot of thinking about touchy issues like your dating skills. There is nothing wrong with getting attached to people you care for--that's what makes you a loving, intimate partner and makes it possible for you to form close bonds with people who are important in your life. I always try my hardest not to let myself get thinking about the future when I'm sad or disappointed about something in the present. It seems to help me avoid getting into an even deeper funk and letting a cycle of negative thoughts spin out of control...this is a time when you are going to be sensitive and vulnerable, and you need to treat yourself as gently and kindly as you would treat your best friend if she was in your situation. You wouldn't tell her she's no good at dating and always messes up when she finds a man she really likes, would you? Please try to be at least as good a friend to yourself as I know you are to everyone you care about, OK? And hold off on contemplating your dating future until you are feeling more upbeat about the here and now. I promise that you will not feel this down forever...things will look up in time, and the more you pamper and baby yourself now, the sooner that will happen :).

Hi GE, when you say "that site," are you talking about the site you've mentioned in the past which is part of a mainstream dating site but intended for people who are seeking casual sex/intimate encounters? If so, I am really worried about you that it's a struggle to stay off that site now that you know you aren't going to be content with a purely physical fling. By continuing to talk to and date anyone who is only seeking casual sex, including and perhaps even especially Raj, I'm very concerned that you are setting up a nearly impossible challenge for yourself and stacking the deck against you so you run a frighteningly high risk of being seriously let down and hurt. I really don't believe in giving someone a second chance to disappoint you except if he realizes how badly he messed up and begs for another chance while bombarding you with apologetic words and gestures. Otherwise, please don't put yourself in the position of seeing men who advertise themselves as seeking casual sex, no matter what they say about being willing to consider an actual relationship, no matter how irresistible you find them, and no matter how much you want to believe that he'll want to get serious if only you play your cards right and he gets a chance to know you. I'm not denying that you have an impressive amount of admirable and seductive qualities, but why so severely handicap your odds of finding a mutually satisfying relationship right from the start by not screening out men who are primarily seeking sex? You deserve a guy who wants what you want and should never have to settle or compromise what you're looking for in order to make things work with ANY man--any guy who's worthy of you will be happy to build a relationship according to your very reasonable, mature terms.
GE, please don't be too hard on yourself and try not to feel too bad about Raj. You gave it a shot, took a risk, and it's not your fault that he wasn't open to building an emotional connection. I really think it's his loss and for what it's worth, I don't think he was being sincere when he said he'd be open to a relationship with the right person. I think he said that to make himself look less sleazy and less like a player, but in reality I highly doubt that he'd be open to a relationship no matter how much he liked you. So please keep in mind that it's not you, it's him. Also, don't be too discouraged thinking that dating is an impossible game. I've never hidden my interest or even remotely played hard to get when I realized I liked any of my exes, and each and every guy I've felt that way about has liked me enough in return to pursue me without me needing to hold back or play any games. I think a lot of the dating advice out there is just not that true, because when a guy is really into you, he's not going to let anything silly like you not playing hard to get stand in the way of being with you. Men respect women who have the confidence to be honest and upfront about the way that they feel--I've never once regretted being straightforward with a guy I liked and not playing games, and it's always resulted in me getting whatever guy I had my sights set on. I just think that a lot of the dating rules out there go out the window when you meet the right person--it's only when a guy is lukewarm about you that you need to play all your cards right in order to win him over, but I'd argue that that guy isn't ever really yours or worth having if you have to follow some strategy (rather than being yourself and not holding back) to hook him. So anyway, please don't feel too down on men or dating as a result of this. My advice from now on would be to concentrate on meeting men on mainstream, looking-for-relationships type sites and just being yourself around them without worrying about following a dating book's advice or playing games or thinking that he'll lose interest if you are honest and upfront about how much you like him. With the right guy, you can't go wrong being candid and open with him--any guy who would be scared off because you didn't play games and deliberately minimize your interest in him isn't worth your time in the first place. You deserve someone who likes you for you, no matter what, and I know that when the right guy for you comes along, neither of you will feel any need to be disingenuous or play games with each other...when it's right it's right and definitely best to let things unfold naturally. Good luck!
[QUOTE=realguy]Stacy, You have figured out the male species. Now add in the timing factor. If only all women could see that trying to get another to like/love you is mute. Love shouldn"t be a challenge.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Realguy! You made my day and put a huge smile on my face :D. And I think you are definitely right that for a relationship to work, it requires that both partners like each other enough to be motivated to pursue each other and accept each other for who they are, with no games or manipulation required, AND that both partners be open to building a relationship at that point in time. Although I'm not sure I totally agree with Rose's statement that timing is the most important factor, because I've seen and personally experienced quite a few relationships develop when one or both people involved didn't feel the timing was right and weren't looking to get into anything serious. While timing and other obstacles related to circumstances can sometimes get in the way of a couple with otherwise great potential living happily ever after together, I still think that in many cases where the timing is less than ideal, if both partners really like each other enough so that they're willing to compromise and sacrifice to make things work, such obstacles don't necessarily have to stand in their way. But overall, you are very right, Realguy, that the world would experience much less sadness and angst if people would stop wanting to be with partners who didn't want them in return. It would also help a lot if people didn't use their remarkable ability to delude themselves into believing what they wish were true rather than the disappointing reality that sometimes stares them in the face...if people would start evaluating potential partners' interest in them objectively for what it really is, rather than seeing what they want to see and making whatever excuses are necessary to believe their assessments are genuine, it would eliminate a lot of unnecessary tears and heartbreak. The same is true when it comes to holding out hope that a failed relationship will somehow come back to life and work out wonderfully in the end--in fact, this particular delusion is probably the single most harmful, disruptive, and hurtful idea that people let themselves believe no matter how much evidence to the contrary is staring them in the face. Getting over an ex is hard enough when people are able to force themselves to accept that the relationship is over for good, but when they can't, they run the risk of being tormented indefinitely by a breakup...but I digress. Anyway, thanks again Realguy, and I'm glad to hear your latest updates, GE--it sounds like you're back on the right track dating-wise, and I'm sure it won't be long before you're flooded with great guys who are more than willing to give you exactly what you want from a relationship. Good luck and happy dating, everyone! :)
:D [QUOTE=degen95]i don't know how you humanities people do it. :D in my engineering course i've never ever stayed up past 2 am studying. i usually study a little on a daily basis so that the day before the test i'm almost 100% familiar and confident with the material..you're absolutely DEAD in engineering and math if you wait 'till the night before a test to study..its about processing the information, not necessarily soaking it all up. i usually struggled in the humanities courses because i just can't cram material..and why are we going way off topic like this?? :D :D

i'm beginning to think you and GG are long lost sisters!! ...or maybe the women on sex and the city. ;) sophia = carrie, GG = charlotte, :eek: :eek:

back on topic:
in my yoga class there are tons of hot chicks but for some strange reason i can't ever talk to them..its so weird, like i can't connect with them. i can't say i'm interested in any one in particular but i just find it hard to communicate. have you guys ever found yourselves around people that you hardly know but somehow you had the feeling that you have nothing in common with them?? i feel so distant in class. i know part of the reason is that i really want it to be about me and the instructor so i get 100% out of it, but socially, the desire to be friendly just isn't there. i think something is happening to me. :confused: :confused:[/QUOTE]

Haaha--maybe it's true, you know! I have a major crush on Mr. Big, and I don't even know why :D I actually saw him once, from a distance, at a party after a movie premier, which I had the privilege to attend due to dating some stuck up jerk at the time. A few years ago, that is. I do relate the most to Carrie, too, although I hate these generalizations overall. And I would NEVER EVER cheat on my boyfriend. Glamour, do you relate to Charlette? LOL

Degen, so why do you think you don't feel like being social with the cute girls from the yoga class?? Isn't there at least one who seems more special than the others? It's a rare thing to feel a true connection to someone, I admit.
[QUOTE=SophiaM]though I am naturally not so subserviant myself, but because I was abused as a child, I learned to behave that way sometimes out of fear.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I know how that goes, too. When you've been beaten, it's just like a knee-jerk reaction. You never really forget how much it hurts phsyically, literally as well as emotionally to get beaten, and for me, I'm always afraid of it happening again, even when there's no real, logical reason to fear it, any time someone gets in my face, that feeling of being knocked in the head with someone's fist/knuckles just comes back. I remember I got hit so hard once I couldn't comb or brush my hair for the better part of a week because of the huge gooseegg it left on the side of my head.
[QUOTE=Hiya]Yeah, I know how that goes, too. When you've been beaten, it's just like a knee-jerk reaction. You never really forget how much it hurts phsyically, literally as well as emotionally to get beaten, and for me, I'm always afraid of it happening again, even when there's no real, logical reason to fear it, any time someone gets in my face, that feeling of being knocked in the head with someone's fist/knuckles just comes back. I remember I got hit so hard once I couldn't comb or brush my hair for the better part of a week because of the huge gooseegg it left on the side of my head.[/QUOTE]
I've never been beaten, but I grew up with parents who argued non-stop and threw things at each other, etc. I was always the "referee" who had to somehow find a way to end the arguements/fights. Sometimes if we were in the car while the fighting was going on I would put my hand on the doorhandle and tell them that I was going to jump out if they didn't stop. It really got to me because I was so young and I loved them both so much. They always wanted me to take sides and it was really hard. They would even wake me up in the middle of the night for me to resolve an arguement/fight.

Having told you guys about all of that, I really do have a lot of good childhood memories. My parents eventually worked things out and they stopped all of the arguing around the time I started high school. Now they are so cute and you would never know that all of that arguing went on back then. I too was very shy during school until my junior and senior year of high school. I do think that all of the fights probably contributed to my guardedness. Which I know that is nowhere near being beaten. My heart goes out to you and Sophia. I am so proud of you both!! You have turned out to be such wonderful, kind-hearted, brave women.
Iím really sorry and sad to hear that several of you have been feeling down lately (as unwarranted as that is). For what itís worth, I think youíre being way too hard on yourselves, as you all have numerous wonderful qualities and amazing personalities, and in any event, would you ever consider someone else unworthy of love or just a bad person because they currently lacked a significant other? I just donít think youíd be nearly that tough on anyone else as you are on yourselves, though I completely understand the instinct to judge ourselves harshly and how hard it is to resist that urge when we feel down and lonely and those feelings seem to pile up and compound each other the more we think about them. But being in a relationship does not reflect on you as a personóif you really think about it, that makes little sense, because even those who are luckiest in love go through dry spells when it comes to romance. Having a significant other doesn't even remotely correlate to how lovable or worthy we are of companionship and romance!!

Itís interesting for me to read how Sophia, GG, and Nini think about men, women, and relationships, because I feel like you all understand women so well while Iím practically clueless about my own gender. At the same time, I have a hard time grasping why women find men so perplexing when they strike me as, for the most part, remarkably straightforward and noncomplex creatures. Comparitvely speaking, women seem incredibly deep and difficult to comprehend, so much so that Iíve always felt really bad for (straight) men having to deal with women romantically rather than the other way around. I donít know, I guess I'm not a normal or feminine woman, but I donít think thereís much mystery to what men are looking for, although of course each individual of either gender has their own unique twist on that.

Anyway, from what Iíve seen and experienced, you ladies are definitely right that men find strong, confident, and independent women to be most appealingÖand those men who prefer more submissive types who donít stand up for themselves and demand excellent treatment are almost inevitably insecure jerks who overcompensate for their inadequacies with bravado and just being generally mean and inconsiderate. That may be why it seems like the kindest, sweetest, most loving and understanding women are usually those with the worst luck when it comes to men and relationships, because they attract men who go for women who are nice enough to put up with less respect and consideration than such wonderful women deserve. On the other hand, the women with the most assertive, even abrasive, personalities seem to consistently attract gentle and caring men who treat them like gold.

So I think itís way off base to assume that you ladies donít have amazing personalities and tons and tons to offer men just because you havenít had the best experiences in the past and arenít currently involved in relationships. Trust me, thereís nothing that great or redeeming about the personalities of women with the opposite experience, including meÖIíve been lucky to have a number of great boyfriends and be in relationships the vast majority of the time since I started dating, but I havenít made a particularly great girlfriend for most of them nor done anything kind, generous, or admirable enough to account for this success, particularly in light of how the best women I know have had very different experiences. Iíve always been pretty jealous of most other women because they seem to have such effortless ease relating to and sustaining friendships with each other, while Iíve always felt clueless and lacking on that front. While developing and maintaining friendships, flirtations and romances with men has been very easy for me, I just donít think anyone is fortunate enough to connect effortlessly with everyone, and relating to guys with ease doesnít necessarily make it any easier to meet that special someone.

I guess what Iím trying to say is that whatever you may feel that you lack, keep in mind that someone else out there has that quality and is busy envying something that you possess innately. The more you can appreciate all the great things you do have to offer rather than focusing on and regretting what hasnít come easily for you, the more positivity and self-assurance you exude and the more appealing you are to everyone, especially the opposite sex. And I definitely think that beautiful women can be off-putting if they are too polished and glamorous in how they present themselvesóIíve never had much skill when it comes to dressing up and fixing up my hair and makeup, and I think that makes it easier for guys to feel comfortable around me, as Iíve noticed that I tend to get the most male attention and the most guys coming up to me when I look most like a bum. Today I went out feeling physically terrible, in dirty sweats with my hair all messed up and disheveled, and I caught more cute guys blatantly staring at me than I'd noticed in quite awhile even though (or maybe because) I hadnít looked so shabby in ages. It also helps to have a supportive, nurturing family background, which unfortunately isnít nearly as easy to achieve as that homeless chic look :). But please don't be too down on yourselves, no matter what, because what other people think of you does not reflect on who you are or how deserving you are of love! It's a terrible way to judge yourself and measure your desirability, not to mention counterproductive, because you are all about a zillion times more lovable and irresistible than you give yourselves credit for--please trust me on that!!
[QUOTE=stacykgb20] Having a significant other doesn't even remotely correlate to how lovable or worthy we are of companionship and romance!!!![/QUOTE]

I always enjoy your very thoughtful, insightful posts, Stacy! I know the above should make perfect sense, and should be what we all know and feel in our hearts, but as women, I think most of us look at this as think "Huh? What the who'sy what'sit?" Logically it makes sense, but then I feel, well, if I'm lovable, and worthy of love and companionship, then WHY DON'T I HAVE IT????!!!! :) Is life really that unfair?


[QUOTE=stacykgb20] That may be why it seems like the kindest, sweetest, most loving and understanding women are usually those with the worst luck when it comes to men and relationships, because they attract men who go for women who are nice enough to put up with less respect and consideration than such wonderful women deserve. On the other hand, the women with the most assertive, even abrasive, personalities seem to consistently attract gentle and caring men who treat them like gold.
[/QUOTE]

I think it really is true, men do love bi***es. Or at least what we may generally think of as "bi***es", not really evil nasty women, just really mouthy, assertive, or even abrasive, women rather than women who are sweet, gentle and accommodating. THis is where it gets really confusing for me, because the times where I've tried to be assertive and to stand up for myself, it never worked. Instead of earning respect, I was accused of being "overly demanding, too sensitive, bitter, angry, whiney," and other negative terms. Not that I have tons of experience when it comes to relating to men, but what little experience I have had seems to be contrary to this. Maybe it was my inflection, intonation, choice of words, or whatever, I don't know. I'm inclined to believe the people I was dealing with just had no respect for me, for whatever reason. I know one of them now has no problem being yelled at in a way I never would have screamed, so I don't think it was how I stood up for myself or whether I stood up for myself, I think it was just me. These people just didn't see me as deserving of respect and good treatment as other people are. I wish I knew why, but it leaves me with a feeling that's proven pretty impossible to shake, that there must be something inherently wrong with me that I can't seem to fix, that makes people see me as "deserving" of disrespect and dishonesty. I think bad relationship experiences can really alter your perceptions and it's hard to get yourself back to where you were before. Maybe it's a function of being strong, AND being lucky enough to meet the right person who just loves the you that you are when you are self assured, assertive or even abrasive.





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