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Relationship Health Message Board


Relationship Health Board Index


I'll bet this guy comes back sniffing around sooner than you think. He'll be sorry, and teary, and full of excuses. I remember back to the time I was in the midst of my breakup and someone here asked me flat out, if he walked through your door right now, what would you do? Would you take him back? I stopped for a minute, thought hard about it and came to the conclusion that yes, at that time, if he asked me, I would take him back. I was in so much pain at the time that I would have done anything to make it go away. I see now that I'm the luckiest girl in the world that he left me. I would have never been able to trust him again and what he had done to me would have ended up being a cancer, eating at me every day. Once that trust has been broken, you never get it back.
I am so enraged, hurt, shocked, disgusted...the list goes on and on regarding the behavior, audacity and drastic change that my ex has undergone since Oct. I really hate him for making me feel the way that I do and for being so self-righteous, cruel, hypocritical...
I feel so doubly betrayed. Once in the sense that he found me expendable and didn't want to be with me anymore- the break-up itself. That is hard enough. That happened in Nov. Now, not only am I not done coping with that, but I find out that all along his reasoning, his crying, his leaving the break-up open-ended and dragging me along...it all came down to the fact that he wanted to date whoever was convenient and wanted to make the decision to get rid of me as easy on him as possible. Now I am dealing with that deeper betrayal on top of the other one, from someone I trusted with all of my being.
I cannot believe that he is actually so self- absorbed to the point where he tells ME that he doesnt deserve me getting angry at him for (in reality) ditching his first love for a convenient relationship with a dental friend and lying to me and avoiding the issue the whole time.
I made multiple excuses for this guy, while he dragged me through a month or two of confusing and painful crap, leaving me in the dark for HIS needs (his finals, stress...all his excuses) all so he could avoid in every way looking like an a**hole. In reality, he was interested in other girls and our relationship became too inconveinent for him, while all the while I was trying to do everything for him thinking he was horribly stressed and depressed, having sleepless nights and sacrificing myself so that he could figure out what was wrong. I cant believe I actually worried about his mental welleing, thinking he was depressed, when all it was was that he was too immature to know how to deal with wanting to ditch me and go have fun. His excuse was that he wanted to be ALONE and had no time to treat me well- truth is, he had all the time he wanted to give. He just didnt want to give it to me.

I just woke up feeling very sick. I think this guy is the lowest of the low right now, its not about wanting him and missing him. In a way, I feel like I am mourning a death- the death of a deep, intense love that I regarded as my other half. Well that person died in Oct. when he started treating me badly, and instead was replaced by this incredibly selfish person who is now continually stabbing me in the back, yet complaining that I have no right to bother him or rail on him with my hurt and pain.
I am so hurt, to my core. I have this perpetual lump in my throat and I feel very very depressed. I have no interest in making myself look good, cleaning, taking care of myself...I feel like I could lie in bed all day (even though I won't). The situation has changed completely knowing that he is with some girl who I know. Who was his friend that I actually hung out among, of all people. Who I could SENSE he had something going on there with. It makes everything different, and makes it sooo much more painful than it was before, beacuse I realize I was totally and completely betrayed and misled from the beginning. I dont even care right now aout our past relationship, as wonderful as it seemed at the time...I dont care that he told me i was The One. It makes it harder, but right now I cant believe anyone could do this to someone who they loved as much as he seemed to once love me, and still be able to sleep at night. My whole thread "Can you fall out of love like this" where I poured out my heart here over my loss and confusion with my break-up is completely negated now, because everthing he told me from the start was not in consideration of my feelings, but for his. I feel like he just threw me out with the trash after such a deep relationship.
I hate feeling sick and depressed like this, I just dont know what to do. I realize how this is a blessing for me, as hard as it is, since of course I dont want this guy, its just that after all we had and THIS is the truth of what happened...I dont know how to take it all in. Its too much and too hurtful.
I had to do it, this email is just too good and I wanted to share it because right now its the one thing that is consistently making me smile and even laugh. This is the email that my best friend wrote to him beause she was so enraged by his behavior she said she couldnt help it. My name is L. in this email. Sorry for the length but it is well worth it, I think!
-----------------------------------------------------
Hello (ex-boyfriend's name),

I know that I never got to know you well and this email is in no way
intended to place judgment on you as a person, but I do have a
couple things to say on the situation at hand for the past two plus
months. I do not enjoy meddling in other people's business, but
knowing L. very well, I only feel it necessary to make some
comments to shake you from the self-righteous opinion you are
taking on her actions and behaviors.

A. The way you broke up with her was cowardly and immature. The
proper way to treat someone "you care about" is not simply to
answer a question - it is to be honest. And the honest way to have
broken up with L. is to have said point blank, I don't think I'm
ready for this relationship, I think I am interested in meeting
other women. Yea, it sucks to hear, but it is much better than the
s**t you dragged her through. I mean, I actually defended you
saying that you were probably going through lots of stress and
needed to be alone. But the reality was that you had plenty of
time, just not for her. And you should have been honest about that
right away, not spread some bullsh** around. Then L. could have
finished dealing with you two months ago, not today. Now (new girl's name) isan issue because other women were kept out of your explanation.
Tests, stress, finding yourself, etc. does not = interested
in other women. Had she heard, sorry I'm interested in other
women, (new girl's name) would = other women.

B. In the future, have the balls to sit down face to face with
someone you just broke up with. Don't think you are so special
because you answered an email. She has all the right in the world
to ask questions, demand answers, and even shout at you. If you
don't want to deal with that, then that's fine. Just don't think
that answering an email makes you a precious person. if you had
given her straight up answers and L. STILL chased you down with
emails, text messages, or phone calls then she would be crazy.
However, you didn't. You left her in the dark for a LONG time,
citing stress and finals as the reason. That's bullsh**. One
conversation, one mature converstation would have been all it took.
Feelings would be hurt, some loose ends would need to be tied up,
but nothing nearly as hard as this would be going on. Don't fool
yourself into believing you have taken L.'s feelings into
consideration, you've taken your own guilt and desire for not being
perceived as an a**hole into consideration. Unfortunately, it's
backfired. I think you're an a**hole, but I would never had said
that had you done it right. I would have said, sure, he's young,
he's a boy, he's not ready. But the way you handled it showed that
you are immature and selfish, not that you are a wonderful person.

So don't blame L. for her behavior, blame yourself, and get over
yourself - never complain about having feelings and being hurt.
You will never feel one ounce of what L. is feeling because you have not
been treated the way you treated her. Maybe some day the tables
will turn and you will know how it feels. Until then, just know
you f-ed up and you have no right to feel inconvenienced or
frustrated with anything.

That's a wrap,

(best friend's name)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Despite my pain, it still brings me laughter and happiness thinking of the way his heart must have jumped when he got this email in his inbox...and his thoughts while reading it.
I am SOO sorry- trust me, I know exactly how you feel. I am still fighting back the tears over my ex 'seeing' some other girl after he told me he wanted to 'be alone' due to stress and time constraints and 'finding himself' now that hes in dental school. It was all crap. He had the time he just didnt want to give it to me. THAT is why I will not take my ex ack. I have caught him in some lies here and there and just wish that I could call him and tell him, but I know that I cant, whats the point? This is coming from a guy who was so moral that I just knew in my heart he could never lie, I trusted him so much. Well I was wrong. For ex., I asked him a month after his confusing break-up with me- do you want to date other people? And he said, flat-out- NO, I dont want to date anyone, I want to be alone. He also told his best friend only 2 weeks after he broke up with me that he was ready to close the chapter of 'me and him' and move on, yet a week later he told me he wasnt ready yet and dragged me hanging on a string waiting for answers out for a month; he kept saying 'I'll keep you posted".

The f-in *******. THIS is why I will not take him back. I dont know your story of the break-up exactly, but my ex made it clear he would propose too and our whole relationship was the most intense, loving, respectful thing that I had ever been a part of, so it makes it completely shocking. I know what you mean about not seeing it coming. Mine started being wierd for only a month when his tests set in hard-core (really ignoring me, never wanting to see me, when he did he was rude and wierd), out of a 1 year and 8 months...he even said he didnt put much thought into it when he broke up with me. My god I could kill him re-hashing this to you!

My point is, I dont know how much of an a-hole yours was, but if he was nice about it, it makes it even harder, I know. I made excuses for mine in the beginning, and cried straight through for 2 weeks. Then it became once or twice a week for a month until this Tuesday when THIS news came aout. I called my mom 5 times a day to cry in the beginning yet I still went to work and school (as you are doing, too- so thats a good start!)
It got better after I asked him flat-out if he was coming back and he said "I dont think so". I cut him off after that. As hard as it is for you, WHEN YOU ARE READY, you need to cut off all contact with him. Well, by all means, ask questions and so forth now if you want for a little so you can get the full range of understanding as to what happened (had I not done that, I would never have known how much of a jerk my ex really was since his words were all lies).

What is hard is that my ex WAS one of those special people that is really sweet and caring and respectful and moral- still a virgin (he's Muslim), didnt drink, really understanding to me and just NORMAL for god's sake. He was seriously my other half. I know that is hard to get over in the intial stages as Im sure your ex was an amazing person too. I still havent gotten over that! I am just trying to concentrate on the negatives (and theres a ton right now); however, I keep having images of him downtown being that special guy he was to me to his friends and that girl, and that is so hard. I want him to be hated and have a horrible time like I am having.

I know I am rambling, but feel free to share your feelings. Just to relate, It has been 3 days now since I found out about his feelings toward the girl in his circle of friends, and I feel right back to where i was and I cant concentrate in class (you said you cant focus on the computer screen- Im the same). I know the girl, shes his friend, Ive hung out with her, so it makes it really hard for the mind to handle. I couldnt concentrate in the beginning as well, I had to miss class and work for a week and go home.
You said you'd take him back in a second...I felt that way too in the beginning. Once you get through the initial shock, you can start looking back and seeing if and how you were unhappy in the rltsp. That might help you realize that you dont want him back (concentrate on his faults and the ones that made you unhappy- then imagine dealing with them again after he's done this to you...it would be a different story, right?) Also, would you ever be able to trust him again? I know its hard when you want nothing but the person you love so much to come back into your arms and reinstate their love for you, and while it would stop your pain, I know I would resent my ex for EVER having the want to leave me...I do now! And now, for my specific situation, I could never take him back for being a polar opposite person of the person I fell in love with, hes now an immature selfish lying person.
Im ranting, I apologize, but i hope this helps...keep posting, it helps me to do that. I will respond with all the advice I can give!

Oh- how old are you and your ex? And what is your break-up story...
Hi Citygirl. Thank you, your post did help. At least I know that there is nothing wrong with me in the way I'm feeling. I feel like such a fool. My ex broke up with me 2 weeks ago and said that he's not ready to get married and doesn't know if he ever will be. I was devistated, but by the very next day he said that he wanted to work on our issues and make it work. He said that he loved me and didn't want to loose me. To be honest, I didn't even know we had issues. I was happy. Things could have been better in our lives of coarse, but in terms of our relationship, I was happy and he seemed like he was too. We were best friends. Well, he was mine at least.

Well, over the last 2 weeks we have been getting along and having fun. He seemed to be happy that we were together and always told me how much he loved me. But my insecurities got the best of me last night and I straight out asked "did you mean it when you said you don't want to marry me?". His answer was, right now, yes. That was when my world came crashing down for the second time this month. I wasn't expecting him to propose, I just wanted to feel like he still wanted to get married "some day". Afterall, it was his idea to begin with!
His "excuse" is that he is not happy with himself. He hates his job, he doesn't make enough money, and he suffers from pannic attacks and anxiety. Under these circumstances, he doesn't feel like he would make a good husband or father. Just like your ex gave you the sob story of how hard his life is and how he needs to be alone to sort things out, so did mine. I think its a load of crap! When you love someone, you work things out together. You lean on each other for support and encouragement. You don't bail out on them.

I am 25, my ex is 37. Yes, 37! What exactly is he waiting for???? I feel stupid for actually believing that he loved me.

The worst part is, I can't bring myself to tell anyone. I know I need the support of my family and friends now more than ever. But they all think that things are great. My family thinks we are going to get engaged (because he told them he was going to propose!!!) Not me! I didn't count my chickens befor they were hatched! It was him who led me and everyone I love to believe he loved me and wanted to marry me.
I told my roomate that I will be moving out in March, to be with him. I have nowhere to go now. I can't afford to live on my own b/c I will be doing student teaching which doesn't pay anything. I can go back home for a while, but I don't even have a room, closet, anything! I will be sleeping on the couch and living out of a suit case. How can he do this to me?!?!?! I put all my trust in him. Not only did I love him, I was depending on him. I know it's wrong to be dependant on anyone, but considering it was for the benefit of our future, and it had to do with my career and education, I thought it would be ok to count on the man I love being there for me durring this time. I am lost right now... I don't know what to do.

God, I hope it gets better soon. The pain is unbearable!

Oh, here's the real kicker... we work together. Its hard to get someone out of your mind when you still have to see them 5 days a week. Thankfully, he is only in and out of the office throughout the day so I don't have to see him constantly, but I do have to see him.
And as pathetic as it sounds, I feel relieved in a way that I do get to still see him. I know it's not good for me in terms of moving on, but at least I still get to see him.

I pray that God gives me strength. I can't wait for the morning he can walk into the office and see me smiling, and think to himself "wow, she's over me. What have I lost?"
It may not happen, but I'm holding onto whatever thoughts I have that don't make me cry right now...

Thanks for listening (or reading)! It does help. Especially since none of my family or friends know yet. I needed to get it out in some way and this has made me feel a little better, at least for now...
How are you feeling today?
You guys will be ok---a little scarred and a little more cautious, but OK--I promise. I thought I would never be ok again when my husband of 12 years left our home. We have two children, and own a home together, and I had no income, so believe me it was scary!!

The other woman thing makes you absolutely crazy for a while. The obsessive thoughts, the not sleeping or eating will last for a while and are not easy, but it does get better. I lost a lot of weight and even passed out in the gas man's arms when that was the last thing to be cut off in my home. All my neighbors saw and it was very embarrassing to say the least!

I really wished I would die for a time, honestly, I did. It would have been easier thatn the pain I felt, I thought at the time. Nothing has ever hurt so bad. I was a shell of a person--broke down in front of everyone, and literally vomited everytime I thought of him with the other woman. Felt like my eyeballs were gonna fly out of my head due to dry heaving, had to go on sleeping pills because if I was anymore sleep deprived I was in fear of getting in a car accident with my kids.

About two months later, (sorry to say it was a whole two months, but it was...)I suddenly realized, "what in the heck am I doing??" I was crying for what should have been, not what was. I took a long hard look at my life and how much I had lost myself in being a wife, giving to him, our marriage and our relationship. I didn't even know who I was anymore. I had forgotten what I even liked to do.

I started making a list of things I had always wanted to do, but couldn't (or chose not to really) They were small and they were huge. I started seeing a therapist. I gutted everything that was his, or his and mine together. I tore down curtains and scrubbed walls and got a new bed. I went out and made new friends as if I was a child again. It was almost as if I was 5 and said, "Do you wanna be my friend??" But people responded and gave me their phone numbers and email addresses. I reconnected with all my old friends and we went out on the weekends when my kids were away.

I joined a gym and worked out HARD. That is a biggy!!! I started tanning for a little color and light therapy, HA HA. Before long, I was really, really happy and wouldn't have taken him back if he were the last human on the planet. I have discovered so many things about myself I never even knew before, and I know now I have a lot to offer anyone, but am still very guarded when it comes to love and think I will be for a long time. It's just one of the scars we bear.

Every day get up and get in a quiet place for just a few minutes. Self talk that you are a great person, you are worth the world and nothing less, that you are ok, right where you are, and that life is a journey. Be gentle with yourself and allow yourself to cry and feel it, b/c staying busy works for a time, but it only delays the pain. I believe you have to wallow and get cried out, then pull up your socks, find yourself, and find a hot rebound guy to set your head right!! HA HA.....did that too.

Now, I am going out with a young, hot, nice guy. He worships the ground I walk on--and we need to be worshiped after this kind of thing!!! My kids are happy and well adjusted, and I am working and starting my own business. I have tons of friends, an active social life, and I let NO ONE around me that isn't a positive influence to me spiritually. Life's too short not to be happy, is my new mantra. You'll get there, I promise. It just sucks for a while. Wanted to assure tho, it does go away, and you will honestly be better for it!!!!
[QUOTE=citygirl23

my ex made it clear he would propose too and our whole relationship was the most intense, loving, respectful thing that I had ever been a part of, so it makes it completely shocking. I know what you mean about not seeing it coming. Mine started being wierd for only a month when his tests set in hard-core (really ignoring me, never wanting to see me, when he did he was rude and wierd), out of a 1 year and 8 months...he even said he didnt put much thought into it when he broke up with me. My god I could kill him re-hashing this to you!
[/QUOTE]
CG, you at least broke up on good terms, respect and care and intensity is still there. I know this makes it quite hard for you to let go of him, but it would be a hundred times worse if he has mistreated before break-up. I broke up with my ex like 3 years ago in the nastiest way ever imaginable. It was all like a prolonged nightmare of abuse.
I know this pain of loss...it's like mourning the dead..honestly.

Like others said, the pain will fade only gradually, and maybe you have to go through this grieving process. I hope that sometime in the not-too-far-future you will be able to look back at this and smile. Things can only get better for you.

It's sad because you sound very wise and really in need of venting, not advice.

CityGirl, I know that your story attracted a lot of response and interest from the beginning but I was not able to read every post...Do you mind telling me whether you lived together? If so, start to get rid of everything that reminds you of him.
[QUOTE=citygirl23]I keep regretting stuff- I am so obsessed with this today. I keep thinking had I not been so giving in the relationship it could have worked out. I gave so much and got ditched so fast that it makes it so much harder. I keep thinking that I pushed him away because I wanted my selflessness to be returned. Then when he started acting so wierd I gave him more and more and felt more hurt that he gave less and less...had I not done that this could have worked. I felt that we were so perfect together when we were with each other and now hes forgotten all about me and clear moved on to some friend...[/QUOTE]


((hugs)) I know how easy it is to get stuck in the rut of second guessing yourself till the cows come home. But you just have to look at it as a learning experience. Learn whatever lessons you were supposed to learn from it, see wherer you can do better next time, and move on. I learned the hard way too that I loved someone way too much. It's really hard to, I wish I knew the trick of giving just enough of yourself to say "ok, we're on the same page, headed toward marriage, I can promise to forever forsake all others, cleave only unto you, give my heart body, trust and respect to you, take your name, give up being Miss/Ms. Jane Roe and become Mrs. John Doe, Mr. and Mrs. Doe, the Does, and forfeit a certain amount of my freedom, individuality and independence for you" and still be ok when that person says, "eh, nah, see ya." But then I only had the chance to try it once, so I don't know if I could do it any better if I had another chance. Maybe I've been subconsciously running away from other chances for fear of being hurt again, I don't know. I doubt it, I just haven't met anyone I click with. But I think there must be some trick to loving someone from a distance. darn those men! They have it soooooo easy! They never go through this garbage! Losing sleep, not eating, crying for weeks on end. One night out drinking with the boys, one one-night-stand and they're fine. :mad:

hang in there. Keep working with your therapist. Did you discuss the issue of the anger as well as the sadness? What did she say about thatif I may ask?
Haha we never even got there, I talked and cried so much that we ran out of time by the point that she said her little piece and got more details.
She concentrated more on my physical reactions to everything, like weight loss and so forth, for the 4 minutes that she spoke. But it was just an intake so I guess I will have to see next time if she says more.
I guess I did love too much, and while I felt it was normal because he reciprocated it, as soon as it got hard for him to do that, he stopped, and that makes me feel like it wasn't there as much as all and I was misled the whole time.
I know this is a learning experience, but so was everyone before this guy that wasnt nearly as meaningful, intense and beautiful and I feel like this was my only chance too, this guy was special until he turned into the a**hole he is now and I feel like I blew it. I dont know where this is coming from all of a sudden- I never felt this way before. I guess Im just thinking of him with another girl who isnt me and him being happier and getting married and losing his virginity to HER, not me (oh god that is so painful to think about). Who knows if that will happen, but he seemed so ready to get married to me within the next few years that he could do the same with her.
However, I was myself. And I guess myself is one of those loving, selfless people that get burned because they're too loving...? I dont know, I mean I put my foot down a lot, i was always the one bringing up issues, never him. As much as I might have felt taken for granted often, he was my other half, and I dont know if I will find that ever again.
hi citygirl. sorry to hear about this latest development. i know i'm coming in a little late on this thread, so forgive me if anything i post here is redundant...

it sounds like you're really starting to second-guess yourself. i know it's almost impossible not to, given the circumstance, but take it from someone who wasted a year of her life second-guessing herself- it's not worth it. for an entire year of my life i thought so many false things; that i wasn't s*xy enough, girly enough, cool enough, interesting enough. i kept thinking that if i had just done such-and-such right, it would have worked. the fact is, it wouldn't have, because i wouldn't have been being myself. it's perfectly reasonable to accept responsibility on some level when there's a breakup, but not to think that there's something fundamentally wrong with you. the fact is, if he was unhappy, he should have said something to you. he didn't address the problem, and now you're left, understandably, in a state of shock.

and the images in your head of your ex and this woman... chances are, they're not all that accurate. you're basing a lot of this on how YOU feel about this guy, and the good times YOU had with him. everyone has problems, and it's hard to imagine that a relationship that started under rather sordid circumstances will flourish. and if it does, there's a very very good chance that you're not going to care. impossible to believe, right? well, i know way too many people with a similar story who would beg to differ. my favorite is of my friend who dated a guy for 10 years, and lived with him for a good portion of those years. he cheated on her, dumped her, and told her that she was like 'broth', i.e. a very boring person. which is not true of course, but her ego took a huge beating. naturally, he regretted it when she was about to move out of state to be with her new boyfriend, and she got a sappy, sentimental e-mail that she practically laughed at when she read it. so never say never, citygirl, and remember that if you can get through this, you can get through anything.

i know you will be okay. i know it's hard not to obsess, but give it your best shot. keep going to your counselor and lean on your friends, and know that once you've healed, and if you are open to it, you will find something even better than what you had with him.
Going ice-skating today with my best friend's 6th grade class, she's a teacher...so that will be interesting!

Your situation is identical to mine Opie, he said the same things to his friends- 'she's taking it really hard, i hope she's OK'. And when we broke up I spent the whole trying to hold him as he cried. I do feel like hes an idiot for letting me go. Thanks for reminding me Im not the idiot here, although I feel like he could easily pass me off as a psycho if he wanted to exaggerate to people and build up his ego. Oh well, I guess it doesnt matter, you're right.

Gypsy- as hard as it is to want to admit, I think you are very right. I am somewhat mature, got a lot out of my system in college, and really believed I was ready to settle down with him, and STILL think I could settle down with the right person in 2 years or so. I was his first seriuos relationship and he didnt date really at all prior to me (a girl or two or three, only lasted 2 months), and never showed interest in doing so. So that is why this is a shock. I realize he was probably so freaked out over the fact that he was feeling differently, he just should have told me that and not the crap he did. Then I would have not had the hope I had for so long that he would figure himself out and return to me. I assumed he loved me so much that he couldnt let me go. So this makes me realize that he fell out of such intense feelings really fast. Cowardly or not, its not right to say what he said, and I dont want to make excuses for him and I feel like I will if I keep thinking of it this way (as being something that was most likely bound to happen due to age). I think you are right here; however, I loved and trusted him with all of my being and never in a million years thought he would leave me. Im still dealing with that along with the new 'friend' turned 'fling'.
As far as his religious practices, I told him I would never convert and I laid down what I would and would not do if we had kids. The reason why I did adapt some of the things he did (I mean, the no sex was not my choice, I had to deal and respect that if I wanted to be with him), really just the fasting, was just to see what I might be getting myself into someday and try to adapt to it a little. I know people that dont compromise at all in their early stages, then try to get married and realize they are in shock at how different they really are re: religion and culture and so forth. A friend just canceled her whole wedding ecause they realized they really didnt agree on their relig diffs after all. I guess I was trying to avoid that and figure it out as best I could early. So I WAS true to myself in that intent, but you are right- I wasn't exactly happy doing it since I wasn't getting any huge sacrifices come back to me on his part when I needed him. It put me in a sticky place- I knew if I wasnt going to bend in a way, I couldnt be with him. I just never realized how much he wasnt willing to bend for me, and that was a problem. One of the HUGE cons I need to focus on now. Thank you for your advice.

VM- I read your email last night around 5 am after I came in from my night, and I could barely keep my eyes open but I really almost cried! ESPECIALLY the part about people who pass themselves off as moral and are really self-absorbed. As of now I somewhat believe that my ex is one of these people, however, hes a closet example (everyone still and always did think he's god's gift). I wish everyone could see how it really is...maybe they will. I am feeling the best today I have felt yet over this, and I think last night I just realized I cant do anything, I am so hurt and angry with him yet I should try to let it go. I shold try not to think about the two of them together. I dont want to know. Im starting to realize that he is young and obviously much more immature than me and I hope someday he realizes what he lost and regrets it. Otherwise, I have to keep remembering how wonderful I am and try to go from there. I still cant help thinking Im getting what I deserve because of what I did to my high-school bf. I know its not helpful to think that way, but I do- goes to show what kind of person I am. I am trying to put it out of my head.
Last night the guys were seriously lacking at the lounge I was at and it sort of made things worse for a while when I was there because i kept comparing them to him and realizing I wanted him...and then thinking how I cant have him and feeling depressed. And how this girl has him in some way now and probably is as infatuated as I was in the start of our rltsp. Everything about my guy on a visual, shallow level was beyond perfect for my taste and going out among guys in a visual, shallow way is really hard, Im not interested in any of them because they REALLY dont measure up. I hate the fact that I most likely have to lower my standards, but I guess we'll see. Im not exactly looking right now, Im not stable enough yet, so..?
Hi ladies! :)

You are both so strong and doing so much better than you're giving yourselves credit for! I'm very impressed with your resiliance, and I hope you will both have faith and trust us who have been through this before when we assure you that in time, you will get over this and things will get easier and less painful each day, albeit gradually. Those awful moments are unavoidable when things are still fresh, and my advice is not to fight it when you get an overwhelming feeling of devastation and just need to break down and sob inconsolably. I remember those waves of intense sadness all too well and still get them occasionally, as my ex and I shared a very unusual and strangely close connection and always treated each other with kindness, respect, and friendship. I haven't been able to talk to him over the last six months or so because it was too painful, but the sweet things he does occasionally and how consistently good to me he's been absolutely melt my heart, and thus break it all over again. So it's not an easy or quick process to get over someone you truly cherish, nor do you necessarily stop loving them, but the pain does diminish, and time does heal all wounds at least to a certain extent.

Anyway, I just wanted to remind you both that you are wonderful, amazing women who deserve nothing less than the most special guys out there who absolutely worship you and have every single quality you want in your life partners...these guys have a way of popping up when we least expect them, and even if not all our relatoinships were meant to last, that doesn't mean we aren't ultimately wiser, tougher, and more understanding people for going through each relationship that doesn't last. It takes a lot of distance and perspective to see how we're enriched by our failed relationships, but it's important to remember (even if you're a devout atheist like me) that everything really does happen for a reason, that everything has its season, that all things pass in time, and that things have a way of working out for the best in a way often unimaginable until it someday becomes crystal clear. Pain and heartbreak are rough, but you have already made it through the worst days of these hellish ordeals, and I have complete faith that you will make it through the coming days which will get progressively easier and happier :). Please also remember that loss is an important, inescapable part of life that makes us appreciate love and happiness so much when we're lucky enough to experience these things, and even though it usually hurts, change ends up being in our best interest.

I just know that as hard as they are right now, all these breakups are ultimately for the best, as all the women who have posted here feeling heartbroken deserve a man who will treat them better and show them far more loyalty than any man who would even consider breaking up with the woman he loves. What you are going through now is definitely something you need to experience, and while it's grueling and miserable, it is in your best interest and will make you smarter and tougher in the end--I never knew what people meant when they said "whatever doesn't kill you will make you stronger" until my ex broke my heart for the first and only time. And I bet the first time is always the worst and the hardest...now we know that to love fully and without reservation can be as painful as it is wonderfully gratifying, and that it's therefore worth the effort. I think I'll fall in love again, and while I felt like I could never trust or love again as completely as I did with my ex for a long time after he left, now I think that the experience makes me appreciate the good times in a love affair more than I ever did before, so who knows? It's always wise to keep an open mind and an open heart, though not always possible...sometimes we need to build a shield around our hearts to allow them to heal, and the time we spend mourning and moving on as single women are often some of the most formative and important experiences of our lives.

I thought I knew everything about love when I was with my ex, having had relationships with at least a dozen men, having tons of dating experience, and having loved three other men very intensely, though not on the same very private, intimate, and intense level that my ex and I achieved...I couldn't imagine life without him or either of us ever loving anyone else more. Maybe we loved each other too much, I don't know, but I am so much wiser now than I was when I'd never been hurt by love or had a broken heart. In time, I've even come to see that my ex wasn't the right person for me to spend my whole life loving, because the timing and external circumstances just weren't right. The main reason I know this is because we aren't together anymore, and I just know that the man for me would never, ever, leave me, no matter what we had to endure, and my ex and I definitely experienced a harsh trial by fire. I really think it's that simple, and that love and life has a way of ushering us blindly along a path that ends up being full of wonderful surprises, twists, and turns that we can't anticipate but that end up being far more fulfilling than anything we thought we wanted and envisioned as the pinnacle of happiness at any one time. But no matter what, I know that we all deserve to be loved, cherished, respected, and admired by those for whom we open our hearts. I also know that everything happens for a reason and works out for the best in the end, no matter how bleak and hopeless things seem sometimes, and believe me, I've had some dark times since losing the love of my life and developing a nightmarish chronic pain problem. But we only get one life, and we need to experience as much passion as we can, even when it's in a negative form, as that's what makes love and happiness so gratifying and sweet. Hang in there ladies, as nothing lasts forever, and this too shall pass, paving the way for a happy and peaceful future period into which you'll emerge wiser and stronger after these ordeals, and clearing the way for the right partners to pop into your lives when you least expect, but also when the timing is just right :). I can't wait for you guys to start feeling a little better, when those first pangs of happiness start to come back...please trust that it won't be too long!
I still think you deserve better treatment...he should have had the guts to tell you straight out that he didn't want to continue having a serious relationship, considering how often you have asked him for an answer and how intensely emotionally invested you are in him. I think the least he owed you was an honest, upfront answer about his future intentions rather than leaving you hanging even to this day. Unfortunately, breakups rarely cause an equal amount of pain and take the same amount of time to get over for both parties...I learned this the hard way, like you, with my last major relationship. With every other guy I'd been involved with, I've been the one to end things, so it was a new and terribly painful experience to have my first time being dumped happen with the man I'd lived with for three years and expected to spend my life loving after feeling convinced that nothing could come between a love like ours. One person, sadly, always ends up more hurt and needing more time to recover than the other, usually because the person who leaves has been considering the idea for awhile and therefore has quite a head start when it comes to adjusting to the shock of the split and moving on with life as a single person. I don't think it's a gender thing because as a woman, I've had so many experiences where the guy was a lot more hurt by the breakup than I was, and I've always felt that my boyfriends were a lot more emotional and sensitive than I was, so I think it depends on the individual situation how one responds to a breakup more than it depends on one's gender. But that's just me, and I've never been a very typical woman or felt like I had much in common with women as they are generally characterized. I know that the idea of settling down with one guy doesn't appeal to me much at all, as I love all different guys and would hate to pick just one...marriage in particular seems so undesirable to me because the odds of picking someone you can really be happy with for a lifetime are quite slim, and divorce is such a nightmare compared to even the worst breakup. I think that you're right that many young women feel certain that they want to settle down and spend forever with the man they love, but when these relationships fail, it's always for the best, as the men we ladies pledge our love to don't always deserve this devotion and we don't always choose men who will make fulfilling, loving, trustworthy, loyal, and caring partners over the course of a lifetime. Most young loves that don't work end for a very good reason, and both partners are usually lucky to get away before they made the mistake of marrying each other. Anyway, Steakie, please don't sell yourself short...you have an unusually special, amazing amount of love to give, and you should hold out for nohting less than everything you want in a future partner (when you feel up to considering this issue of course and not before). You are making great progress and are a wonderful catch, so I truly hope you don't hesitate to be picky in the future and not waste any of your time on guys who don't treat you with unfailing patience, love, respect, and admiration. Remember, you deserve nothing less than a man who loves you way too much to EVER consider breaking up with you, let alone breaking your heart! I really think you will come through this happier than ever and that it won't be all that long befeore you are thrilled that you made it through the breakup devastation because it left your heart free for a man who will truly appreciate, honor, and cherish it over the course of your happy life together :). I hope this holds true for CG and Murray too, as well as for anyone else experiencing heartbreak and hoping that the future holds happiness and love again.
CG, just wanted to add how cool and rare it is to find a girl my age who doesn't have any compunction about giving herself credit where credit is due. When did women become so uniformly self-deprocating that now whenever we say something positive about ourselves, we automatically apologize and make sure to explain we aren't intending to brag. That makes me sad--what would be so bad about that? We all have a lot of great qualities and achievements, lots of things to be proud of, and from the sound of it here, a lot of women could definitely benefit from the self-esteem boost that comes from complimenting ourselves on the things we like and admire most. And when someone is going through a major trauma, I think we should take every possible opportunity to remind them of all the great things they have going for them. I guess maybe one reason I tend to connect better with men than women is because men don't have the same sort of modesty when it comes to complimenting themselves. I've found that men actually find it appealing when girls speak up about their talents and achivements...I've gotten really positive responses to some of the things I say in my online dating profile that come closest to bragging. The girl friends I had look it over mentioned several times that I might want to tone it down and sound like less of a fan of myself, but I don't think guys respond in the same way at all. They seem to find it refreshing and admirable when a woman is confident enough to be frank about her impressive qualities, and come to think of it, I think that it's appealing when guys are confident and don't feign false modesty about the things they have to brag about. Confidence is attractive, especially in the somewhat shy, nerdy guys I like to go for who have a quiet confidence underlying their reserved demeanor, which disappears after they get to know someone well. I think the guys I like might describe me the same way, though the older I get, the more outgoing I become, and once I'm in a social sitaution, I have no trouble being gregarious. In any event, the type of guy I like is sexy when he's smart and confident, but the same guy might seem a lot less attractive if he didn't have confidence in his abilities. I think guys find confidence equally sexy, and equally intrinsic to whether or not they find a particular girl appealing or not, especially because sadly, it's less common for young women to display confidence openly than it is for young men to do so.

We are taught starting pretty early that while boys compete, girls are supposed to gain skills and work hard on cooperating, getting along with everyone, and building consensus. This never suited me well--other than a few other equally assertive, confident, outspoken, and competitive female friends I have from when I was little, I never had as many female as male friends, and girls rarely liked me while nearly every guy I met liked me either as a friend or as more than a friend, or both. The more I think about this, the more I think my experiences could be very strongly impacted by guys finding confidence and a willingness to express one's talents and achievements appealing and common, women seem to find it very rude and distasteful, probably because they were urged growing up not to brag for fear of seeming full of herself. Well, I think this is selling women short--better to be honest about your abilities and risk people getting the wrong idea than to undermine yourself in the name of modesty and in the process, jeopardize one's self-esteem and risk increasing insecurities.
Hey Murray, I have to say I am very surprised with how well you are doing. Right after my break-up I dont even think I could have brought myself to go out at all...actually I went home out of state for a while and laid around my parents house weeping and staring and drinking wine...haha. It was awful. I am impressed that you actually got all dressed up and had your friends over.
To be honest, I think it is somewhat insensitive that your friends discussed their coupled lives all night with you...how hard that must have been! I cant even imagine. I am lucky in the sense that, when I was with my ex, I was the only coupled person out of my best friends (we're all 23/24 and all single now- its nice), and while all of my grad school friends are either married or coupled, I am not as close with them so it doesnt bother me as much. If anything, it gives me hope for the future by looking at them getting along so well...my ex rarely gave me the time to come out and hang out much with these people and be a couple along with everyone else when he finally moved here, so I was usually alone anyway (and when we were long-distance, I was used to being alone). I think there is somewhat of a danger when you only have a social life in groups of romantic couples. I know it is difficult when everyone gets married (or close to it) to go out alone, but when stuff happens like this, it is somewhat insensitive to just show up as moral support flashing their significant other in your face.

On the other hand, I wonder if your friends were just trying to distract you. If they had sat with you all night and discussed your feelings and wallowed with you, that would have put a huge damper on the evening Im assuming, and didnt you say you had planned to go out? Either way, I dont know if that is the most sensitive tactic to distract you with, but they may have been trying to help you. With my friends, in the eginning I did not go out and instead I stayed in at people's houses, ordered chinese and drank wine and just talked it out with all of them. Then we'd watch a movie and the whole evening would just be a somber and supportive atmosphere...it helped in the initial stages to just get it out and that way I didnt have to be hurt by people talking about their coupled vacations- you're not ready for that yet.

As for advice- I am the type of person that has no qualms whatsoever about discussing my feelings, showing my emotions (if theyre exaggerated, I dont care, its how I feel at the time), and wallowing. For me, my first week was spent in denial. I stared, I cried, yet I did OK. It was the 2nd week when I talked to him and got some depressing and confusing answers that I became a nutcase. However, the way I deal with things is to just get it ALL out of my system, in all ways, and then pull myself together after Im tired of doing that, and take it step-by-step from then on.
I had a friend last night who told me that: [B]break-ups are the equivalent of someone extremely close and intimate to you dying, except maybe even more HURTFUL because you know they CHOSE to leave you.[/B] This really resonated with me. She said she doesnt find it fair that society allows people all the time in the world to grieve and be depressed, over an actual death, and this is seen as NORMAL and expected, whereas if people do that after break-ups, it is seen as weak, neurotic, and crazy. She also said that, in my situation, the real grieving and response to the break-up should have begun this past Tuesday when I found out about the 'female friend', and I think she is right; because it changed everything, it snapped me into reality. Hes moving on, not coming back. Our relationship is really dead to me, etc. I was dragged along for so long, kept harboring hope due to what he was saying, and assumed he was mourning me like I was mourning him. Now that I see that that is not the case at all and hes a liar and Ive been replaced, I feel like, while I had a head-start with the healing process, I am NOW really going through it.
So for you, heres what I would do. If you have to call him, call him. It might make you look weak and it might not help things, but I do not regret going a little emotional and crazy on him. I was honest with my feelings. I laid it all out on the table, and I was true to myself. It made me feel worse when he would selfishly yell back at me ("you're hurting MY feelings". Please.) and tell me really devastating answers to my questions ("I dont love you anymore"). However, at least I helped myself out...I wanted to call him, I did. I didnt self-sacrifice anymore because he might not like me calling him. I did enough of that when we were together.
Eventually I got over that and cut him out. Now, this new girl thing is horrible to think about, but I really just try to push it out of my head. Let yourself mourn, grieve, get it ALL out and over with, and eventually you will get tired of crying. You are mourning a loss. It is normal, even though society might say otherwise. After that, do what you have been doing. Cram your social life up so that you still realize you can have fun and he didnt ruin that for you. I have seen visual proof that mine is out having a blast, so why shouldn't I? Lay around and mope all you want for awhile (I still am, my room is a mess). Write on these boards, they really help. Try to compliment yourself ALL the time and pick out the things that you find rare in yourself. Make yourself look as hot as possible all the time, it will help you feel attractive and boost your confidence. When you have mental images, try to push them out (this step comes later). I am still having a hard time there but the more I try to consciously block it out, the easier it is.
Over time, we will be oK. I am still right here with you so I think you are doing very well considering how early this is! You are being very mature and I wish I had had the composure that you do, but I am too passionate of a person and I let my emotions overcome me in front of him. Oh well! He can deal...and I'll find my pride again, haha. I hope this helps in any way possible.
And you know what? If you need to scream in front of him, do it. Do things FOR YOU from now on. Whatever makes you feel better, do it. There are limits of course, but for now, its OK. And dont worry about being immature- I've been there. Its normal, we're hurt. Cause he most likely isn't coming back, and if he would, it wouldn't matter anyway, since you CAN'T give him a THIRD chance. No no no. You gave him a 2nd one, which most people don't do anyway, and you can't give him a third, you're obviously not worthy of his rollercoaster emotions. You've lost his trust not once, but twice. Who does he think he is?
It is hard that you see him at work, but I think maybe you should start looking for another job? You're in school so its not like its your career, am I right? I mean, its hard- I dont know actually- part of me thinks you shouldnt have to upheave your life for him while he can stay at work and chill, but part of me thinks you will heal much faster once you dont have to see him everyday.

I have an update with my feelings on things, I wanted to share on this thread:

Im finally back to where I was! Had a conversation with good friend. We agreed on how selfish he is and how it is etter this way. Hes not who I thought he was yes, and it is devastating, but I think that better yet- he is not who HE thought he was. It was easier for him to give me up than to change.

I will never take mine back. He is inherently selfish, egotistical, and thinks he's some religious saint who does no wrong. He took and took all I had to give him and when it came down to giving, it wasn't happening. It was always about HIM. I think he needs people that make him feel good, and that is why he left me- not about culture, relig, or dental stress (such crap). I think I made him realize how selfish he really was when I started to complain how he took me for granted, and it made him feel bad about himself, so he left. He needs someone submissive who will give him everything as I did, yet NOT expect it back. I think I put him on a pedastool and he idolizes himself too it seems. As much as he treated me well I think I looked at his religious morals and persona as something that was like god's gift, and he took that and ran with it. And while he really did treat me amazingly well and its hard to mourn the loss of that, he hurt me very badly and then was self-righteous aout it. Plus, when push come to shove, he didnt want to do things for me when I needed them if it conflicted with his 'wants', and he was never appreciative of all I sacrificed for him. Good luck to him in the future!! All in all, thats a pretty big 'con' if you cant give someone you love so much some equality. That girl can have him, if she can put up with the inequality than she is half the woman that I am because no one should be taken advantage like that. I was not religious, but I give more everyday to the human race than he ever has in his lifetime with what I do in my profession and eveyday life. So if anyone comes out of this as someone that should be missed, its me! Haha. I shouldn't miss him, its his loss.

I am better without him. I really am. Had I stayed with him, it would have eaten away at me over time. I like this place I'm at!

So Murray- maybe try to focus on how he's 37 and he cant get his ***** together. Focus on how immature he is that he has to come back to you a second time and STILL cant be true to you. Focus on the flaws in your relationship and how if he can leave you twice, he doesnt deserve you. Ive never met the guy, so Im sure you can do even better than me with these flaws. This will help immensely toward the healing process, I promise :)
Ive been posting my updates on the thread "To Murray" because I know a few of us are going through break-ups, but I wanted to update here because so many others of you have given me such insightful advice.
Its been a lot etter for me this week- Ive even been able to go back to giving people advice and actually believing the things I tell people! Ive been able to push stuff out of my head (mental images) and even watched a whole movie tonight alone in my room (used to do this quite often on a tired evening) and it was fine.) This time, I could concentrate and actually enjoyed my own company :) Ive enjoyed my life lately and have actually smiled walking down the street and danced around in my room to my music...so its been good!

However, I ran errands today after class for about 3 hours, and went aalll over the place downtown and of course had to walk through his neighorhood. I kept clear of his avenue but I was around his street and within a ten-block radius. It was hard. I am always so scared I will run into or see him, or him and her, or he'll see me from afar...whichever. So Im alone, walking around for hours with my ipod just thinking about him again...running scenarios in my head, etc etc. Now I usually love spending time with myself, especially running my errands and shopping around the city and just people-watching (I love new york!). And I refuse to avoid any area and go out of my way just ecause I 'might' see him. He has ruined my life enough, I will still live my daily life the same. However, as soon as I got up in my area away from down there, these feelings diminished.

What I still cant put out of my head right now are just the mental images of them two together, and its funny because I dont even know the status of their relationship. So who knows how accurate I really am...but one general one that consistently pops into my head that is painful is them being in their group of friends, yet still acting like a couple, all in different situations (sitting together at dinner, him paying for her, dancing at a club all night together, going on a vacation with friends and sleeping together in the same room/bed). It is just hard.

I am interested in opinions on this. How can someone move on so quickly and it doesnt affect them at all? How can they easily replace their first love of 2 years who they wanted to marry, all in a month's time (with a FRIEND for that matter, that he met 4 months ago). Now, Ive seen girls do it to guys just the same, its not only guys; however, given my situation, can any guys give me a male opinion? Why didn't he mourn me, or miss me, or have a hard time jumping in with someone new? He can cry on the phone to me 3 weeks efore he all of a sudden has a new development with this friend? How is that humanly possible to do...shouldn't you have a hard time or miss the person and feel wierd? Especially after you blatantly said "I want to be alone", "No Im not dating _____(her name), why would you think that", and "I will just think of you if I try to date anyone else".

I just cant understand how he could do this and just not be phased by the memories of us, or miss me and feel wierd about this new person. It just seems so easy and carefree for him to do this. I will never know the answer because I am trying to get over him (and somewhat succeeding...Im so angry and hateful) and I know I will never talk to him again. I just don't get it, you think you know someone so well and that their love for you could never go away overnight...
*and let me just add that 5 days before he 'needed to be alone' and broke up with me, I spent the night, & he was pouring out to me how he loved me and I was being so patient with his coldness and a**hole-ishness...Im still so disgusted by all of it.
the mornings have always been the worst part of the day for me too
ive been having (well apart from last night) dreams about me and him still being together and happy and wake up in the morning still thinking we havent broken up and then it hits me really hard and i start crying.
i went out last night with a big group of friends and had so much fun.
im getting there now...slowly but its getting easier already and im so happy i thought this was giong to drag on forever buti can see hope and you will too citygirl
it must be harder for you tho because you were with him for longer and therefore will take a bit longet to get over him but you will
ive already formed a crush on someone,not practical,but ive already found someone id want to be with instead of him. itll happen to you too hun dont worry xxx
life sucks at times, but we've got to get over it, move on and be happy again, i promise you itll happen. its slowly happening to me when i thought it wouldnt.
goodluck x
[QUOTE=citygirl23]I just have to concentrate on the negatives! That always seems to help...and there are a lot. It was always about him, even when he was sweet and caring and loving, so it made it really hard to realize.
I am worried about not finding someone who is so attractive like he was AND someone who clicks with me right away on so many levels like he did. We were attached at the hip, never thought it would change. I know I cant think about it now, and everyone says here that I will find someone better...I dont know, aren't there lots of people who don't?[/QUOTE]

Hi CG!

Iím sorry that I havenít been around over the last few days to provide support, but I really hope youíve been holding up as well as could be expected. I think you are incredibly strong, special, and brave, and I have absolutely no doubt that you will come out of this happier and tougher than ever. Itís important to remember that while many people donít find love that lasts a lifetime or only find love with one person, this isnít that common, and it certainly doesnít happen to really amazing, confident, and well-adjusted people who have as much to offer a partner as you do. People like you will always attract men, and Iím sure that once you have time to healóand please donít push yourself to get over this in any specific amount of time, as it is a long and painful process that is different for everyoneóthat there will be no shortage of interested potential partners for you to choose from. Iíd suggest giving online dating a try when you feel up to datingÖit definitely did wonders for my ego after my heartbreaking split last year to get messages from hundreds if not thousands of guys since then, almost all of which were filled with compliments and made me feel really desirable and appealing again. I love men and dating, and I started soon after my split, but donít feel badly or like thereís something wrong with you if you arenít ready or interested in dating for some time to come. However, I think you are completely unjustified in worrying that you wonít find someone better than your ex, and it will probably happen sooner than you think. Iím sure there are more guys out there than you realize who are every bit as attractive, sweet, and caring as your ex without being nearly as selfish, self-absorbed, immature, and inconsiderate as he was on way too many occasions. Itís impossible not to feel like you might be alone forever and not find someone as great as your ex again following a breakup, but in reality, your ex wasnít all that great, or he wouldnít have been stupid enough to leave you. The fact that he was able to turn his back on you just proves that he isnít the right partner for you, because the right man would never ever want to live without you in the center of his life. Somewhere out there is a man who will love you as much as you love him and treat you as well as you treat him, and given enough time to heal, I guarantee that you will someday look back filled with relief that your ex cleared out of the picture in time for you to meet someone who made you realize how much better you could do (not to mention how much better you deserve)!

As far as moving on, I think Susie hit the nail on the head, and my own experience supports it. Before the breakup Iíve discussed, I had been the one to end every single one of my numerous past relationships, and in each one, I was able to move on quite quickly and without much difficulty because I was already emotionally detached from each relationship before I actually ended it. In a lot of cases, I even overlapped boyfriends, which Iím not proud about in retrospect, but I do think itís important to point out that dumping someone and then moving onto someone else ASAP isnít a behavior thatís confined to men. I think itís almost universally true that people who initiate a breakup have given it serious thought and come to terms with the idea of going forward without their significant others before they actually break the news. Thatís one of the reasons why I think itís such a horrible idea for the people who are broken up with to hold out hope that their partners will change their minds if they wait around patiently, because their partners have likely given the breakup all the thought they plan on giving it before announcing their decision. Everyone gets over relationships and moves on at a different rate, which also varies depending on the particulars of the relationship in question, but in general, those who decide to leave get on with their lives and date again much sooner because they have had a lot more time to adjust to the breakup and get used to the idea of being single again compared to their exes, who often didnít see it coming or were in denial about the impending split.

But CG, in your case, the fact that your ex said all this stuff about still loving you and not wanting anyone else then turned around and acted exactly the opposite just proves that he isnít good enough for you and that he definitely isnít the right guy for you. As far as trusting again goes, itís so worth it to open your heart again, please believe me, as my ex did just what you describe in post #144, but I have had a relationship since and have no doubt that Iíll find someone else to love who will make me happier and be a better match for me than my ex ever was, as much as I loved him, because we were in retrospect probably too young to know ourselves well enough to pick a lifelong partner. I think all of you ladies in your early twenties need to keep the faith and get back out there and enjoy dating again when you feel up to itÖremember that itís way too early for most people to settle down. Itís important to grow into yourself as an independent adult and have a lot of dating and life experience before you are really ready to pick the right partner and settle down for good, and for most people, itís a mistake to do this before your thirties. Also, keep in mind that you can never know for sure how a relationship will turn out, but love is so wonderful that it is well worth the riskÖalso, most relationships arenít meant to last forever, but can be wonderful during a particular time in your life. Someday soon you will find another person to love who will love you back just as fully and unselfishly, and it wonít be all about himÖplease believe that you deserve better, and that you will get it now that you know not to settle for anything less in return than everything youíre giving to a relationship. Your ex wasnít meant to be with you forever, or else he would have wanted that as much as you did and shown you a lot more consideration, devotion, and respect and a lot less selfishness and self-absorption. His behavior just doesnít make sense, so please donít drive yourself crazy trying to make sense of itóand please, please stop torturing yourself asking these questions that have no answers! It is doing no good at all to obsess about him and try to make his irrational actions seem logical. You were still quite young when you started dating your ex, and hopefully over time, experience will show you that your ex wasnít nearly as special as you thought, and that there are tons of attractive guys out there with who you have equally great chemistry and who are much, much more sweet and caring than your ex. Please donít doubt that, and donít doubt yourself, no matter whatóthis is your exís loss, not yours! When the time is right, you will meet someone who makes your ex pale in comparison and makes you thrilled that you were freed up to meet himÖjust hang in there in the meantime, as it will get easier over time, and you have a great attitude and tremendous inner strength that will get you through this before you know it!
[QUOTE=steakie46]Hi VM,

How long after you broke up with your ex did you start dating again?

Also, why exactly did you two break up?

I really need to make some friends and have ppl to hang out with, but I am so bad at it. Any tips?[/QUOTE]

Hi Stacy! :)

Please don't ever hesitate to ask me anything that crosses your mind...I've shared just about everything here, and I certainly would never hold back anything that might help someone else! As I've said, prior to meeting the ex who broke my heart toward the end of college, I'd dated quite a lot of different guys and had several other relationships during which I was genuinely in love, so I'd had a pretty unusual amount of experience with guys by the time I started dating my ex, though I'd never been dumped or had my heart broken before.

We moved in together right away and from the start faced numerous outside pressures, such as our respective roommates plotting together and lying to us in an effort to manipulate us into not getting involved with each other. They tried really hard to avert this as his roommate was literally going through a prolonged mental breakdown, during which time he had to be institutionalized by the police and his parents three different times because my roommate, who wasn't at all popular with men, was so enthralled by having her first ever boyfriend, mentally ill or not, that she helped him break out of the mental hospital each time. When he finally moved out of state to be near his family, she went back on her fruitless crusade to dissuade my ex from being with me and to try and steal him away, which it turns she'd also done behind my back several times with past boyfriends.

Soon after, we moved to spend the summer with his family in NYC, which was also a difficult and stressful period for us, because I was never really comfortable there, and his psycho grandmother waged a war to try and come between us, as she liked having complete control over my ex. The rest of his family and I got along okay, but they disliked the idea of him being close with anyone near our college, because it might keep him from coming back home on vacations and after he graduated, so it seemed like our relationship was under siege from that angle just like it had been since we first met at college. Then finally we got out of there and moved into our own place, which is always stressful, and as soon as we started our senior year of college, I had my wisdom teeth removed and ever since then, Iíve suffered from horrible chronic pain that shoots up one side of my face. Iíve seen about a dozen doctors and been on and off tons of different medications since then, and the terrible pain along with the side effects and anxiety that came along with the pain and various treatment efforts would have put a huge strain on any relationship.

Through all of this, my ex was wonderfully loving, sweet and supportiveóhe has never been anything but kind, patient, and caring to me, and he is truly a great person. I guess the timing and cir***stances were just against us, because for the next few years, we stayed strong and united, but tended to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world because our love was so intense that we were happier alone and because we are both introverted homebodies at heart. In retrospect I think that wasnít a healthy move, but itís a mistake many young couples make, and we did the best we could, but his family continued to pressure and manipulate him into going home to NYC from the moment we graduated. We were both struggling with uncertainty following graduation anyway regarding jobs, graduate school, and our future plans in general, though we had vowed to stay close and united no matter what. Then one Christmas things got unbearably tense, and I basically couldnít stand his family anymore and broke downÖwhile we made up and held on for several more months, that was definitely the beginning of the end, and his evil grandmother came to visit and was so horrible to me that I had a car accident, after which I couldnít stop crying, full of hatred, rage, and frustration with his family, and my ex found it difficult to comfort me without feeling like he was taking sides against his family.

They always made it so it was me against them and put my poor ex in an impossible position trying to please everyone, which he always did because he was so kind-hearted and sweet that he couldnít stand to let anyone he loved down. After the weekend with his grandmother and my breakdown after it, he left, saying he needed a break, and while we reconciled briefly, ultimately he bowed down to the pressure his parents and other family members, who were greatly inspired to continue coming between us once they saw theyíd driven us into needing a break. We really thought nothing would come between us, but ultimately he wasnít strong enough to resist the external pressures on him, and I think that between my chronic pain and his family, we were just under way too much strain from all possible sides. Itís really sad, because we never had anything but immense love and were nothing but kind and sweet to each other throughout everything we went through, but in the end, I know we just werenít meant to be, because otherwise weíd still be together.

And quite frankly, in some ways itís a relief not to have to worry about his miserable family and his uncertainty and unhappiness with everything, though itís incredibly difficult dealing with my health problems without the unconditional love and support he provided, though my family has helped immeasurably since we split. I was absolutely crushed for months after he left, though I did start dating again within a few months, even though I wasnít ready to get seriously involved with anyone else. I realized that I loved being single and not having to answer to anyone or be tied downóit was absolutely great being able to date a ton of different guys, because I love men, lots of different men, but Iíd been stuck in serious, long term relationships for much of the time since I started dating. Iím kind of like the stereotypical guy when it comes to wanting to experience as many different guys as I find attractive, both in terms of dating and in terms of sex in certain cases, and I loved being free to do whatever I wanted.
Hey everyone!
So sorry I was MIA, a friend in my program had invited me to go away for the weekend skiing! I think she was trying to 'get me out' (she has a sister who went through almost the same thing as I am going through, except its 2 years later and her sister is STILL crying over her ex. I dont want to be that way!)
Anyway, I have been trying to catch up on all the posts, and thank you all for checking in on me! It is so nice to come home to that :)
VM, your post back a little ways really gave me that pep talk I have to hear every so often when I get down. You're absolutely right. And yes, I am 23, I am young, and I most likely have lots of time ahead of me and shouldnt settle down until Im near-30 or so. However, I really thought I was ready to settle down and marry this guy. I just knew. Its hard to shake that...although, his true colors came out and Im glad that didnt happen, if this is who he really is! It hurts me to think he had been planning to be without me earlier than he ever let on, after he said he 'didn't give it much thought' when I asked him how long he was planning this break-up. I could punch him. So, I realize theres nothing I can do, and while he is off being happy and thinking hes great with this 'friend'/'girl' of his, I know its just to build up his own ego after he hurt me so much. Makes him feel like a good person again...ugh.
Nina, thanks for checking in, too. Im sorry to hear you were having a rough time. Trust me, I know how it goes with drinking too much wine...that is how the origin of this post came about for me, anyway! I don't know if you're still feeling that way, so I'll let u update before I go into a spiel to cheer you up, if it is outdated news...
Theres not much new with me other than still thinking of him and being depressed here and there, although I did have a great weekend. I kept thinking...ok, so yes, he is in the city still having a great time I'm sure (with whoever...don't want to know...), but I'm up here in VT learning how to ski!! I'm awesome!!! Haha (I did pretty well, too!) And i was having a great time with people and thinking...I can just be myself, and not worry about my boyfriend and how he is not giving me his time! Its always bittersweet, my thoughts, but those happy ones are always nice!
The other thing I noticed is my friend's relationship with her boyfriend (he planned the trip). Now, they have a rare relationship in that they were childhood friends and have been together for 8 years. This guy PAMPERS her and they take such good care of each other. He even took care of us girls (as her friends). He surprised us with glasses of wine on a tray, held towels out for us to snuggle into when we got out of the hot tub (in the 20 degree weather), carried our bags/skiis/whatever for us, and was just great. And I thought, my ex would have NEVER done this, let alone even give up his time to take a weekend away with me after dental school started! And her boyfriend is not very attractive, but it goes to show just how that stuff shouldnt matter to me...I am still hung up on my ex's good looks and how I won't find anyone that I am as attracted to as I was him (is that really shallow?). It made me realize that I deserve so much better than what I was getting from my ex (and my friend is one of the sweetest people ever, so they definitely deserve each other!)
Anyway, I am still having my moments, but Im hanging in there. I really appreciate all of the kind words, the encouragements, etc etc. I do plan to take revenge with my success! I am definitely going to be successful and I know I am worthy of someone that would never lie to me and disrespect me in the way my ex did. Im sure I will need reminders of that from time to time from you guys ;)
The psychologist is really helping, too. I recommend seeing someone for anyone going through a traumatic break-up. She gives interesting and different insight...for example, the other day I asked her- how can someone change so much so quickly as he did? And she mentioned how it might not have been HIM changing, but ME changing, in the way that I started pointing out how he was taking me for granted and I wanst going to put up with it. She said it might have been ME who changed, and he didnt want to deal with the change as it meant more effort and some sacrifice on his part. I thought that was interesting...
Well, Im here now, so I will keep posting! Thanks for all of your thoughts, again.
Thanks Raaar,
I know exactly what you are saying. If only I could turn off my heart and listen to my brain, I would see this whole situation in a different light. I know I deserve better. Hell, it may sound concieted, but I do think I can find someone better than him. At least someone who has their act together... But how the heck will I ever do so if the thought of even kissing another guy repulses me. Then, to think of having sex with another guy makes me want to cry... I know it's too soon to even think about that stuff. When the right person comes along, it will feel right. But it's so hard to live each day not knowing when I am going to just get over him. I am so afraid of being one of those people who's still feeling this pain after years of trying to move on... I know people who still cry over their exes even though they broke up years ago. God I hope that doesn't happen to me. Its hard enough thinking about him dating other women, having fun without me, painting his condo (that was going to be my home too, so I thought).... All this is very hard. But if I EVER have to live through finding out he is getting married, or another woman is moving in with him, or even that he is in love with someone else, I swear to God, I will die! That is unless when that time comes, I have moved on and don't love him anymore. I pray every night that I can just move on and stop loving him.

Thanks for your kind words Raaar! I does help to know that I am not the only one who has felt/feels this way.
[QUOTE=raaaaaaaaaar]That gives him ALL the control. However, I have to remember that in reality I am WAAAAAY too good for him, he was cruel and selfish towards me and if he came crawling back to me would I have such little self respect as to take him back? NO WAY!!

I think we both definitely need to regain some control over our own emotions and not let what anyone else says or does ruin what we feel about ourselves. We are great people, and they are the messed up ones who are missing out on our love and missing the chance of being with us.[/QUOTE]

Hi everyone,

I think Ra's comments above are incredibly important and couldn't be more true. You ladies are all much stronger and more desirable than you may realize at this moment, but it's hard to feel good about yourself when someone you loved voluntarily chose to walk away from your relationships. Nonetheless, the hardest part of any breakup is the initial stage of shock and then the very crucial step of accepting that it's over (Nina, I hope you can get to this point and make it through okay, because it does get easier after that, and I just know that you have the resilience and courage needed to come out of this unfortunate situation happier, wiser, and tougher than ever :D). After that, it's just a matter of getting through each day, trying to do everything you can to feel good about yourself whenever possible and to get back as much control as you can over your emotions and your life. Also, working to not let what other people think influence you is so important, as the happiest people are those who care the least, and the most miserable people I've encountered are those who care the most about what other people think of them. Anyway, you guys are all going to be just fine, and I can't wait until you start feeling a lot better and are able to enjoy being free of the bad parts about your exes. Somewhere out there are men who will make much better partners for each of you who will be so happy someday that you cleared the way for them to be with you, as will you as they make you forget all about your exes except to be grateful that you didn't waste anymore time with those guys and risk missing out on truly wonderful partners with whom you deserve to be incredibly happy and content :).
Thanks. I am used to being alone...I was long-distance with my ex for a year of our rltsp, so that is not so much the issue as it is...I dont know, I guess I just am still in love with him (even though I hate him...not sure how that works). And the thought of being another guy's girl is just not quite working for me now. I know I'm jumping the gun and I am only going out for drinks with this guy so its not that, but I know in the future another close relationship is going to happen (hopefully!) And I don't want to compare.
I don't want to think of myself as my ex's girl anymore...being involved with another person just seems wierd, especially when my ex used to seem to worship the ground I walked on, and now that that is gone, it is hard to imagine some other guy in his place. Its like I still just want him, and the way he used to look at me and all of that, not someone else. How can you still think this way toward someone when they betrayed you so badly!!

Thanks...I will have to 'not get serious' unless it feels right, and by what Im saying here, it seems that even the idea of it just doesnt feel right yet. Sigh.
I have mixed opinons on the writing him a letter thing, mainly because I wrote my ex an email or two (he wouldnt pick up my calls in there for a little while) pouring out my heart. However, I was never immature or insulting in my approach (no cursing, no horrible words, nothing like that- I tried to stay as diplomatic as I could--didnt quite work that way all the time). Heres my thing though, about sending something in writing: For 1, it wont do anything. The situation wont change. I think in the beginning I thought that if I could just remind him of what he was throwing away, he would snap out of his 'funk' and come back. It doesnt work. So any effort you might try to get through writing is futile. However, for 2, I think I wanted to write my ex a letter/email to make him see how much he hurt me, whether he cared or not. That was satisfaction in itself for me- even if it did make me look weak and so forth, I was the victim and he didnt know an ounce of how i felt, so if he wanted to judge me as being weak, it was fine with me- i had nothing to lose-he was already gone and wasn't with me anyway.
For me, usually, I write stuff down and dont send it. Its therapeutic. I guess in this situation, it depends on your intent, although you have to know that the situation will not change no matter what you do, and you will still be without him no matter what.

To all-
So I went on a blind date last night. First time ever. The guy was really nice and we hit it off pretty well as far as the conversation (although that could have been helped due to the wine). Actually, we hit it off VERY well, we were out until way early in the morning talking!
Now heres the thing- I am not that physically attracted to him. Hes nice looking I guess, just completely not my type. The antithesis of my ex in all ways. I know its not an end-all problem here and sounds quite shallow, but my ex was the most gorgeous person I had ever seen, practically. So I just feel like Im taking a huge step down in that department, and thats hard. Like, no one will ever compare to my ex in looks and attractiveness and style, etc.

And this is what scares me. Like, even if I see this guy again and I become more and more attracted to him over time, it will never be this 'lust at first sight' thing like it was with my ex. And Im frightened by that. I remember posting a while back saying that I was scared that I wouldnt find anyone who would love me like my ex did. Well, lately, that concern has turned into being scared that [B]I [/B] will never love someone like I loved my ex. I have never known love like I loved my ex, the way i lusted at him from the start and turned into loving him as much as I did. It was beautiful and all-consuming. I feel like if Im not as physically attracted to someone, it will be completely different...just less consuming and mind-blowing.
Ive been given advice from my mom that i should stop dating these gorgeous men and find someone that 'loves me more than I love them'. To me, that just isnt really what I want, I don't think. I dont want to settle. I want to be as consumed and enamored with the guy I end up with, like I was with my ex. Every time I saw my ex i wanted to...you know. Im scared that if I am not physically attracted to the next guy, as much as it might change over time, it won't have started out with that intial 'fire' that I had with my ex.

Maybe Im just not ready to date? It WAS really therapeutic because it was fun and I felt like I was getting along with my life and enjoying myself (not sitting at home cryign over my ex anymore). I guess Im just scared. I know I cant think about the future, and should only live for this moment alone (thanks, opie!). I just feel it will be hard someday when there is another person involved and I just cant love them like I loved my ex, and therefore I won't be happy. I dont want to hurt anyone.
I'm blaming myself this morning again. I just woke up and these feelings just come flooding out.
I think it might be because I went down to his area last night to meet up with my best friend and some friends from college. The whole time I was facing the window, and I kept looking to see if he would walk by (we were on his exact street- it was painful). And I kept getting so mad that I was doing that.
The psychologist Im seeing said that this week, my 'homework' was to let myself feel what I feel and to stop being so hard on myself that I can't just push him out of my head. She said it is a loss and my feelings will not just 'go away', despite how horrible he was. So I guess I have to ride these feelings of self-blame out, as well, but I hate it.

When I think about us in the past, I wonder if I was too hard on him sometimes. He went to Egypt for a month during the summer and still managed to make contact with me (emails, IM) every day. That is pretty incredible considering. However, at the time I felt that I was available for him all the time, and I even sat around and waited for him to get on the computer when I could have been out doing whatever. Now Im thinking- this was MY fault, not his. Whenever I wanted to talk to him, I was screwed, cause I couldnt get ahold of him, but whenever he wanted to talk to me, I was there. This was somewhat of a common theme in my relationship with him as some of you know, what with all the sacrifices I made for him. So it was things like this that caused resentment in me over time. Now Im just wondering if I ruined it all by being too dependent.
Part of me thinks that boyfriends sometimes cause their girlfriends to be more needy/dependent at times because they aren't giving them what they want. Maye it was like that in this case?
It doesn't make his behavior acceptable at all once he got to dental school, because that was all his fault. He was the a**hole there. Yet, this morning, Im wondering if I drove him to it.
I know you are supposed to concentrate on your ex's faults, which Ive done, but now Im second-guessing myself. Im thinking- what if his faults weren't really huge faults at all, they were just me being too needy? What if I was the problem?
I hate feeling this way. And I know it doesn't change the end outcome anyway. I mean, he lied and betrayed me and we aren't together anymore. Its just, he was, I thought, so amazing and we were so in love, and even though our relationship wasn't equal, I can't keep thinking that I helped to ruin a good thing.





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