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Relationship Health Message Board


Relationship Health Board Index


I don't think we are ever going to run out of people having babies. You don't have to be in a relationship to have a kid. I'm sure there will be plenty of errant high school kids and poor people who already have mulitple children popping out more kids on a regular basis for decades to come. I mean, look at the Maury show. Every single episode is devoted to four or five women searching for the father of their babies. That's almost a hundred babies a month, right there. We have nothing to worry about.

And aren't there already too many people in the world, anyway? If there were less people crowding up the developed, rich countries like America, then some of those folks living in mud huts in third world countries could come over and share the wealth. As it is, not even all of the people already IN America have homes. Too many fu**ers roaming around as it is.

I don't blame people for wanting to be single. Being single rules. I, personally, am not single but I like to pretend I am. I could spend all day long entertaining myself. But you just know that a lot of those people in the survey may SAY they want to remain single, but you know how easily we all fall into lust. Relationships may be on the decline, because they suck, but it won't stop people from getting pregnant.

The world just seems to be changing. It used to be expected that you got married and popped out the children. But a lot of people are seeing just how well THAT worked out for their parents. Women don't want to be stuck in the kitchen with screaming toddlers while their husbands are out painting the town with their mistresses. Traditionally, when you got married and pregnant you depended on your husband for a lot, to fully provide for you and hope that you didn't get fu**** over. Now, a lot of women are saying "Screw that."

See, it is men's fault. Men ruined the social order. Now, if you think that sounds sexist, prepare yourself. Now I think that logically, women are supposed to stay home and raise kids while men go out and provide for the family. But men screwed that up by cheating and being completely unreliable in general. So now women know they can't be trusted. Even the ones that CAN be trusted, can't be trusted, because you just never know. So now women have no choice but to go out and support themselves and their young. Women have been forced to TAKE OVER the men's job. Now they have to raise the kids AND provide for them. Men - they dropped the ball. Another way it was screwed up was by the longstanding belief that women are weaker, dumber, not as deserving as respect. All that "A woman's place is in the kitchen" crap. Well, maybe it is. But since it was always so degraded, so mocked, who wants that?

Well, that's my theory anyway, but I fine-tune it daily. Feel free to argue or discuss.

Despite his flaws, my boyfriend is probably in the top 90% percentile of boyfriends, letting me get away with almost anything, just for the priviledge of experiencing my vast wit and charm. ;) And still though, it is hard for me to have to compromise on things. I want to have my favorite radio station on in the car, I want to watch my favorite shows on TV, I want to go where I want on vacations. Sometimes it is just easier not to have to deal with someone else, and do whatever YOU want, whenever you want.
Gypsy, it's hard to know whether you're joking or being serious. I've never bought into "traditional" gender roles. As far as I'm concerned, every relationship should be an equal partnership. Both people should take equal responsibility in raising the children, both be willing to make sacrifices in their careers, and not feel dependent on the other. But the amazing thing is that a lot of women are serious when they say they don't want to compromise on things. Silly things like what to watch on TV or what color curtains to get. To those women, I say grow up.

[QUOTE=SophiaM]To be honest, I think both men and women hurt each other and that's why there's so much mistrust and bad behavior on both sides. But since men can now get away with so much more and it's easier for the less noble ones to just use women for sex and dump them with no repercussions from society, it made a lot of women bitter. We live in pretty confusing times. All the so called "traditional" values are changing and not really being replaced with anything better; it's like a jungle out there. So many women nowadays 'invest' in dating a man for years, even living with him, patiently waiting for him to make up his mind, and still so many lose that gamble.[/QUOTE]

Sophia, men do get away with a lot these days but in my opinion, it's because too many women let them. If women banded together and said to men, "Stop lying, cheating, and treating us like dirt or you'll never get anywhere with us", men would have no choice but to change their behavior. But a lot of men continue to act like jerks because they're confident that for every woman who won't stand for their behavior, there's someone else out there who will or at least be fooled by them long enough for them to have their fun with her. I've met a lot of men who have this attitude. They risk losing their current partner cause they're sure they can find another. And a big problem for guys like me is that we get lumped together with these men. Whenever you meet someone, you have to earn their trust. But because men have such a lousy reputation, men like me have to work extra hard to earn a woman's trust. But I can certainly see why many women distrust men. It's not any different among us men. Most men may lie and cheat and play games, but it seems like plenty of women do the same. I've read that women are now just as likely to cheat as men. You talk about how women "invest" in dating a man and end up losing. It's no different for us men. We "invest" in dating a woman, but too often she turns out not to be the person we had hoped for. That would certainly explain the results of this survey. When people have been burned so many times on both sides, how can you not become jaded?
[QUOTE]Gypsy, it's hard to know whether you're joking or being serious. [/QUOTE]

Sad thing is, neither do I most of the time. I'm still trying to form opinions on a lot of matters, and I love this board especially because of all of the different and well thought out opinions. I'm always open to change if something comes along that makes more sense.

[QUOTE] I've never bought into "traditional" gender roles. As far as I'm concerned, every relationship should be an equal partnership. [/QUOTE]

But you can't argue with biology, though. Women are the ones giving birth and nurturing their babies with their milk when they are young, therefore it would point to women being the ones responsible for watching over and raising them. That leaves going out and providing shelter, food, clothing etc to the man, if only because he doesn't have anything else to do. And some men can't even be bothered to do that. There are some theories going around then men will be obsolete one day. If I was a man, I'd be embarrassed, I mean really.

Like Sophia said, there are no longer any societal reprecussions for our actions. It used to be, if you got a woman pregnant and deserted her, you were branded. Now if you do that, you're a "player."

I know that I can't and shouldn't lump all men together. And of course there are just as many bad women floating around out there. The state of the world is just sad...

[QUOTE] But the amazing thing is that a lot of women are serious when they say they don't want to compromise on things. Silly things like what to watch on TV or what color curtains to get. To those women, I say grow up.[/QUOTE]

You could have a point, maybe I do just need to mature. Hey, who is to say Jesus won't come back to Earth for one more miracle? But as it is, I don't see the point. It is MY life. Why would I want to spend it doing things that I don't want to do? I have a very low tolerance for discomfort or unhappiness. And that is why I do choose to spend so much time alone - I just like doing what I like doing. *shrug* I compromise to an extent, like I will spend time at my boyfriend's house, even though I hate it, but I bring a good book and magazine.

I think for some people, it is just really important to have a SO. So they are more willing to compromise and sacrifice in order to keep the other person around happy. Me, since I'm fine on my own, I'm not going to go out of my way to keep a boyfriend around. If they don't like me, then they can walk, 'cause I ain't changing anything about myself. Like Burger King, I have it my way. And it is odd too, because that attitude creates an unintentional psychological appeal. Who wants a partner who gives in to whatever they want and is easily malleable? My casual take-it-or-leave-it attitude only makes my boyfriend value me more and makes him feel he has to work harder to keep me. You know what that means - more expensive gifts ;) Also I found that it has a powerful psychologic effect. The harder a boyfriend has to work for me, the more valuable I appear. Who wants an easily malleable GF/BF who does whatever you want? The more someone acts like they can live without you, the more you want to prove them wrong. In the past,whenever I've hung on a guy and done whatever I could to please him, I ended up being tossed aside. But whenever I've acted like a guy could matter less to me, I couldn't get them to leave me alone.


***Off-topic***

I was watching the two-person Luge on TV, and got a great idea for a reality show. Two-Person Luge With Celebrities! Imagine, you get to pick your favorite star, who is dressed all in spandex, and then you get to lay on top of him and travel down the luge-course. Brilliant. I should be in Hollywood.

*** ****
[QUOTE]Right....you should try to be in my shoes for a day and you'll know the true meaning of being a loner. Trust me on that one. it's obvious from your statement, the one on you liking to spend time alone that you had plenty of somewhat of a social life your entirely life.[/QUOTE]

No, no social life. At my request, my parents let me leave school at 10 so I could be homeschooled, which I continued on up until graduation. Upon finding out, people would always gasp "But, you don't get to socialize with anyone!" I'd stare back at them and say, "Well yeah. That's the point." Why is it impossible to believe that I'm a loner? How does that effect you?

[QUOTE]You had bfs for most of your life didn't you?[/QUOTE]

What does having a boyfriend have to do with being a loner? I don't drive yet, so I have always needed someone to drive me around. That's where a boyfriend comes in.

Why do you assume that I was spoiled, and how does that matter? Actually, it is hard to be spolied when neither of your parents has a job, because your dad is so morbidly obsese he can't walk and your mom is a chronic depressive who goes in and out of mental hospitals. So I looked to be spoiled in any small way I could...is that okay with you?

[QUOTE]As for your past, no matter how bad it may had been, none of these ex-bfs you used to have deserved to be cheated on unless they were ba****ds,[/QUOTE]

Going back and really thinking over it...I have only ever had two actual boyfriends in my life. The rest were more like flings. And with my first boyfriend we were split up when I slept with other people and with my current boyfriend it was HIS idea for me to sleep with his friend...so technically....I've never cheated. I was not an angel by any means, but I'm not so horrible as I may make myself out to be.

Mysterious Guy, it seems like you have been hurt a lot by girls and consider me the embodiment of every girl who done you wrong. I am sorry if you have experienced heartache, but most girls who act fancy-free and steamroll over people's emotions are probably hurting inside themselves.

[QUOTE] What about many (thousands) women lining up to be in porn industry, to participate in the film, its common theme being degraded, name calling, having two men's part going in at once (is that even normal?)? What about women lining up to be in stupid music videos which degraded women as well, be looked at as sexual objects? [/QUOTE]

Why so many women in porn? Well, the money. It is pretty clear in our world that a woman's greatest commodity is her looks, so a lot figure they will milk it for all it is worth. Men are the ones with the power in this world, and women know that the only power they have over men is sexual power. I mean, you have men who will pay thousands of dollars for an hour of sex. It is a viable market. In this day and age, women still do not have as many opprotunities as men do. But when it comes to the sex industry, they have the market cornered.

It is sad though, I agree. While women may have sexual power, they certainly aren't being respected for it. And having to focus so much on your body and attractiveness is rough on your soul. I hung my hat up after a short stint in the sex industry and concentrate instead on a career where my physical appearance does not come into play at all.

But this is all kind of off-topic, so I'll stop. I'm sorry my blanket statements about men piss you off MG but I like to spark discussion and arguement. It seems like you hate women, and blame them for your being alone and miserable. The thing is, you have to be happy on your own before you expect to find it with someone else :)
Girl Harley, I'm so sorry to hear that you and your son have been having a rough time. It breaks my heart to think about what your son is going through, but he is truly blessed to have a mom who loves him and who tries as hard to help him as you do. Having a wonderful, caring mom can make all the difference in the world...at least it did for me; I don't know how I could have gotten to where I am or been as happy as I have if not for my mom's tireless efforts and unconditional love. Even if your son is having a tough time expressing his appreciation for you being there and trying so hard to cheer him up, please take my word as a child who can't often vocalize my gratitude to my parents that he knows how much you love him and that you are making a hugely positive impact on him at a time when he needs you more than ever. One thing that struck me throughout this thread was how many people who took the position that being single wasn't as gratifying as being in a relationship was that often these people described being single as being alone, when in fact, I'd bet that the vast majority of happy single people have great relationships with friends and family. I think a loving family in particular can make up for just about anything and bring a stable contentment to our lives that few other things in life can match, even if it's just one family member with whom we share that special kind of bond. It's awful that your son lost his dad, but having you as a mom undoubtedly means the world to him and will always play a large part in his feeling happy with his life. I've been fortunate enough to experience intense love and immensely fulfilling relationships with romantic partners, but nothing is quite like the love I share with my mom, and nothing could ever replace it, nor the bond between my dad/grandmom/uncle/aunt and myself.

[QUOTE=GypsyArcher]You could have a point, maybe I do just need to mature. Hey, who is to say Jesus won't come back to Earth for one more miracle? But as it is, I don't see the point. It is MY life. Why would I want to spend it doing things that I don't want to do? I have a very low tolerance for discomfort or unhappiness. And that is why I do choose to spend so much time alone - I just like doing what I like doing. *shrug* I compromise to an extent, like I will spend time at my boyfriend's house, even though I hate it, but I bring a good book and magazine.

I think for some people, it is just really important to have a SO. So they are more willing to compromise and sacrifice in order to keep the other person around happy. Me, since I'm fine on my own, I'm not going to go out of my way to keep a boyfriend around. If they don't like me, then they can walk, 'cause I ain't changing anything about myself. Like Burger King, I have it my way. And it is odd too, because that attitude creates an unintentional psychological appeal. Who wants a partner who gives in to whatever they want and is easily malleable? My casual take-it-or-leave-it attitude only makes my boyfriend value me more and makes him feel he has to work harder to keep me. You know what that means - more expensive gifts ;) Also I found that it has a powerful psychologic effect. The harder a boyfriend has to work for me, the more valuable I appear. Who wants an easily malleable GF/BF who does whatever you want? The more someone acts like they can live without you, the more you want to prove them wrong. In the past,whenever I've hung on a guy and done whatever I could to please him, I ended up being tossed aside. But whenever I've acted like a guy could matter less to me, I couldn't get them to leave me alone.[/QUOTE]

Great post, GA! And while I shouldn’t even get started on the ridiculousness of religion and how destructive such myths can be, I couldn’t agree more with you about relationships (except where child-rearing is concerned, because I'm firmly convinced that one truly loving adult can raise a happier, more fulfilled child than many bigger families). In all honesty, I can’t think of anything less appealing than a guy who felt incomplete and unhappy without a relationship, nor anything less desirable than a guy who would do anything to keep me around because he dreaded being alone. I am also much happier on my own entertaining myself than I usually am around other people, so I can completely understand where you’re coming from when you talked about having a guy who pleases you or else having no trouble moving on. There really are lots of fish in the sea, and anytime people demonstrate less willingness to be stuck with partners who don’t truly make them happy, it makes me smile.


[QUOTE=Opielonghorn]but what is this based on? people you know? people on television? i don't get all these massive generalizations about society. the fact of the matter is that when people got married fifty years ago, or even 25 years ago, it was mainly to further the species and join families together for wealth or land. it would be very naive to think that they married because they were madly in love. i'm not saying that madly-in-love couples never existed, simply that when comparing the way things are now to how they were at any time in history, it's important to consider the context in which they occurred. furthermore, because divorce was considered absolutely taboo, people were unable to get out of marriages. not to mention the fact that women had no way to support themselves outside of a marriage. you take the good with the bad. while i wish that a more cohesive family unit still existed in society, i am also glad that i'm allowed to have a job and vote and get married whenever i please. the human brain hasn't changed, but people adapt to survive.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s great that people aren’t seeking something they lack in large numbers because it means they are more content with their lives as they are and less susceptible to buying into the societal myth that marriage is necessary for happiness. That lie has finally been exposed for how ludicrous it is, and fortunately, women now have other options if they want to be happy, have love and children, live comfortably, and feel complete and fulfilled in their lives. The fewer women out there who are unhappy being single and thus actively searching for “soulmates,” the more likely these women are to appeal to potential male partners, the more choices we all have in terms of paths to contentment, and the better off women as a whole are. Also, it saddens me to think that there are people out there who feel like happiness and enjoyment will always elude them unless they are in a committed relationship. But just because someone might feel this way doesn’t mean all other single people do, and I don't understand why single people who don't feel fulfilled on their own assume others are in denial when they say otherwise.

I just don’t get how it’s not a good thing that lots of people are living satisfying lives without being in romantic relationships…believe me, it’s a lot more than a Sex and the City inspired trend when women say they don’t need men, and some women really do mean this. I want to have kids and a nice house and all, but I do NOT want to get married, nor do I think I want to spend my life living with just one man. I can do this because my own mom did and has given me every material, emotional, and educational advantage I need to attain everything I want without depending on a guy to do so. There are plenty of women out there with great female role models who fought for women's rights, then went on to achieve everything they wanted, regardless of whether or not that included a committed relationship. Again, being single doesn't equal being lonely and lacking love and deep bonds with special people: I for one adore my family and friends and could easily take or leave a relationship. I think there are plenty of women like me out there who are actually happier without one committed partner because we prefer to enjoy the charms of a variety of men without obligations, as are lots of men, which I don't believe is a bad thing unless one chooses to see anything but lifetime partnerships as somehow unfulfilling.

While some people assume that no relationship=alone in the world and lacking meaningful interaction with the opposite sex, other people are genuinely happier being single because they get the good stuff about a relationship (sex, dates, romance) from a lot of different people rather than having to restrict themselves to one person. No matter what people may say, there are plenty of people out there who view the latter option as an unpleasant alternative to being free and single. And just because some people don’t agree with this and feel empty without marriage or a life partner doesn’t mean these people who like being single are deluded/confused, that their priorities are wrong, that they are in denial, or that they just don’t realize that “life is better with a partner,” because such a value-laden, subjective (and in many people’s opinions, patently untrue) idea can never be accurately ascribed to a universal public. I agree with Rosequartz that it’s really difficult to understand why people are so opposed to the idea that you can be single and happy—even if one doesn't agree, wouldn’t they want to hold out hope that their life can be wonderful if they don’t find a partner or end up losing the one they love?
Whoa now where are you getting these things that you have said about me?? First of all I never had a girlfriend and sure as heck haven't been hurt by them before...well expect for a stuck up girl whom I used to have a crush on until I found out what a spoiled b**** she was and one more girl which i do not want to get into.

[QUOTE=GypsyArcher]." Why is it impossible to believe that I'm a loner? How does that effect you?"[/QUOTE]

It really doesn't affect me. Now that you explained your story better, I guess I believe it but it's different type of being loner I suppose. Again i would have to explain why in details but let not do that.

[QUOTE=GypsyArcher]." What does having a boyfriend have to do with being a loner? I don't drive yet, so I have always needed someone to drive me around. That's where a boyfriend comes in.[/QUOTE]

You used your old bf so they could just drive you around, how sad.

[QUOTE=GypsyArcher]." Why do you assume that I was spoiled, and how does that matter? Actually, it is hard to be spoiled when neither of your parents has a job, because your dad is so morbidly obsese he can't walk and your mom is a chronic depressive who goes in and out of mental hospitals. So I looked to be spoiled in any small way I could...is that okay with you?[/QUOTE]

I don't see why not, i thought you were from a rich family, just like you assumed I'm miserable and am in need of a girlfriend.

[QUOTE=GypsyArcher]." But I'm not so horrible as I may make myself out to be.[/QUOTE]

Again, now you have explained better, I guess not but to be honest, before that, you did (in my view at least) seems to be "horrible person", at least in the past. Now my view has changed. But using your ex-bf to drive you around? Tsk tsk :nono: :)

[QUOTE=GypsyArcher]." Mysterious Guy, it seems like you have been hurt a lot by girls and consider me the embodiment of every girl who done you wrong. I am sorry if you have experienced heartache, but most girls who act fancy-free and steamroll over people's emotions are probably hurting inside. [/QUOTE]

Again, I never had a girlfriend and I'm sure a lot of them are probably hurting inside as well. But am I? Well it is kind of hard to explain. Like I said, I would have to explain in greater details about myself.

[QUOTE=GypsyArcher]." But when it comes to the sex industry, they have the market cornered.
While women may have sexual power, they certainly aren't being respected for it. And having to focus so much on your body and attractiveness is rough on your soul.[/QUOTE]

Of course they are not going to be respected for what they do in porn industry; it is, pretty much, "un-moral", allowing themselves to be degraded like that way. They may do it for money but you know what, most or many of the women in porn industry are actually "smart", in a sense that many of them were good students in school and held well paid jobs. With that in mind, for them decide to join porn industry, which does nothing more than to degraded women and get paid to be degraded is what bother me the most. men, at least those who are not perverts, do not respect that at all.

[QUOTE=GypsyArcher]." It seems like you hate women, and blame them for your being alone and miserable. The thing is, you have to be happy on your own before you expect to find it with someone else :)[/QUOTE]

And last, I don't hate women. I wish I could have easier time being able to social with people, especially women. I, in fact love women and adore them, at least the ones who are cute and sweet. It isn't anyone's fault for what life I may have nor is it mine. As for my happiness, i do not know if I ever will find it (most people really don't anyway) but I am content with my life and with who I am, although it took a long and bumpy road to it (like I said again, i would have to explain a lot about myself and what is causing this "life" that I have) I am always outgoing and fun to be around, at least when the situation that I am allow me to be. Sadly, the only fun I really get to have is when I am at my job, the people and the situation there allow me be myself and be a cocky b*****d that I am. :D I don't look for a girlfriend thought it would be nice to have one if she were my type (fun, outgoing, etc). So i guess I am "happy" enough for a girlfriend. I don't ever go for a girl that is clearly not my type and I sure as hell don't overlook her flaws. Thanks for the talk; it had been an interesting one.
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]Hi everyone,

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but I wanted to let you know that I agreed with Lance's advice and cut things off with that guy this past weekend. I just have no interest whatsoever in limiting myself to one guy when there are so many hot and smart guys out there to experience, so I don't think it's at all fair to pretend I'm the monogamous type when I'm not at all that way in reality. Now that I say that, I know I'm probably doomed to a serious relationship again sometime soon, but to me, that's not at all an appealing prospect compared to experiencing whatever guys I like whenever I like them. I don't know, but it seems to me like it's still really hard for women to act like the stereotypical guy without being excorciated.[/QUOTE]

Hi Stacy! Hmmm, ok, I admit that I find it a bit hard to comprehend how easy you can let these great guys go, but it's probably a function of your young age, too. It seemed like you really liked this guy and thought he was amazing. Well, it's your decision, of course, and I'm sure you still have plenty of time to find someone for a more permanent union when you feel like it. From personal experience, though, I can tell you that the pool of guys does not necessarily get better as one gets older. A lot of the 'amazing' guys either get married or involved in serious relationships. I am a bit surprised you're saying you're afraid you'll be doomed to a serious relationship soon. Why would you be doomed to it, if you have such strong aversion to and don't want a relationship for a foreseeable future? You are not 'doomed' to anything, sweetie. Nobody's going to twist your arm to be in a relationship if that's against your wishes. It's good at least that you know yourself enough to admit this is not what you want at this time of your life. I think others should respect your choices, even if they don't agree with them. I hope you're doing well and feeling good again :wave:
[QUOTE=SophiaM]well, very few that one would want to go out with anyway.[/QUOTE]see, that part is the key, :D
[QUOTE=SophiaM]I don't have a problem with meeting guys per se. I mean, I usually meat someone every time I go out, but I don't go out that often because I don't have anyone to go out with. Also, the men I meet are not usually the ones I'm interested in, and I only want to date someone I'm attracted to--duh, that's a no brainer. Being friendly is not necessarily a good thing, I noticed. For example, the two guys I've been ignoring for two months keep calling me, with no slightest encouragement on my part. Men really deep down love to be ignored, I think?? :confused: It bewildrers me because most of the men I responded positively to, somehow backed off sooner or later.[/QUOTE]
do you get the feeling that we're going around in circles?? :confused: haven't we been here before?? anyway, sometimes its hard to tell when to really go after someone or when to quit. all this talk about "being unavailable to make yourself more appealing" is working against you but i guess you're proving that there is some truth to it.
[QUOTE=SophiaM]the world is insane and i want no part in it. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
well...i know this other planet, but i don't know if you'd like it there.. :D i hear its lovely this time of year.
[QUOTE=Lance0204]do you get the feeling that we're going around in circles?? :confused: haven't we been here before?? anyway, sometimes its hard to tell when to really go after someone or when to quit. all this talk about "being unavailable to make yourself more appealing" is working against you but i guess you're proving that there is some truth to it.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely! I have been going around in circles. It is Always the case, it seems! All the men I don't want, want me, and vice versa. So, what's the solution to this??


[QUOTE]well...i know this other planet, but i don't know if you'd like it there.. :D i hear its lovely this time of year.[/QUOTE]

Sure, just take me away somewhere. I'm going insane here. What planet are we talking about? ;)





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