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Relationship Health Message Board


Relationship Health Board Index


[QUOTE=Mcgunther]no I wouldnt consider that healthy. But of course I have a hard time knowing what is healthy. It seems like I always stuck between what I think I want and what I actually want. I guess when I mean good girl...I mean the type that doesnt cheat, and I guess that is it. I love every other quality that the party girl/vixen type displays. They usually are too into guys though. I think I am a man with a mind like a female.[/QUOTE]

Mcgunther, for what it's worth, I think there are girls of the type you find attractive who can and will be loyal/faithful/honest when they come across a special man they truly care for. I also had to reply to this because I've been spending a lot of time with my old friends (mostly male) lately, and whenever we talk about dating, they always tell me that I am a man stuck in the body of a sweet, innocent looking little blonde girl. Oh boy, if anyone who knows me sees that, there will no longer be any doubt in their minds as to who I am, but oh well. I've never really held back from being honest about what I do when it comes to this stuff, so who cares, anyway, sorry. But like you said mcgunther, that characterization of me as a woman with a man's mind holds true in many ways and accounts for a lot of my inner turmoil when it comes to things like talking about commitment and my feelings :p. That's probably also why I love men so much, both as friends and more than friends.

So, update-wise, I still haven't gotten up the nerve to bring up any of this stuff to the guy I mentioned earlier, who I will call J (he actually has the same name as the last boyfriend J who I referenced here last year for those of you with amazing memories). However, I think Hiya was right that he assumed that not bringing up exclusivity didn't mean we weren't exclusive, just the opposite in fact. He really seems to be thinking and acting like he's my boyfriend, and while a month ago I would have resisted that, I have to say now that it makes me pretty happy deep down. I like him A LOT--he's gorgeous, one of the best two or three lovers I've ever had (and yes there have been a lot, part of why I like to sleep with guys is to weed out the ones who don't do it for me sexually), very smart, perhaps smarter than me, which turns me on a lot, and he's also sweet and upfront and has his own life. Since I am often stubborn and difficult, I like that he's easygoing but not willing to let me walk all over him...in fact, I find myself wanting to be a nicer, more upstanding, and sweeter person when I'm around him.

As far as the exclusivity thing is concerned, I still don't really know what to do. I feel like I should have brought it up months ago if I was going to bring it up at all. In fact, thinking back, he did say something early on about birth control that made me think he saw us as exclusive nearly from the beginning. I also don't think he'd want me around him and his friends if he was dating other women...from what I've overheard, his close friends all know about me and seem to consider me his girlfriend. And he's super busy, but he always answers when I call or calls me right back...I think he might really like me like I like him, and that makes me okay with being his girlfriend. We actually talked a lot while I was gone the past week, and he apologized for being out of touch while he was swamped with finals and everything. He even wanted me to come by as soon as I got home, even though it was after 2 am and he had some college friends crashing at his house. I was excited to see him and he was really sweet, he wanted to hold me really close the whole night while we slept. I was pleased that he made time for me and my schedule right away, especially because this weekend is crazy for him...he has his friends there because they're all in a wedding and his family in town because he's graduating from grad school. Plus, he's moving to my hometown, and he knew before he decided to accept that job that I'd be living there too...so all in all, I feel a lot more confident in the whole thing than I felt before I left, when I posted the rest of this thread. I don't really want to date other guys, so I don't want to bring that up, though I think I will bring up the birth control thing he mentioned awhile back and gauge whether I'm right in my assessment of his thinking about us. I'm still not crazy about the idea of giving up all other men, but I think I probably should, as otherwise I would feel guilty and deceptive...so I will see where this goes.

Do you guys think I should just take down my dating site profile altogether? I guess part of me wants to be positive he's serious before I make those kind of sacrifices, but I do know it's not right to date other guys without letting him know. What should I do about the other guys I was seeing? Should I just disappear or should I tell them I only want to be friends now? Also, should I be nicer and more easy-going with J now than I have been in the past? It's tricky because I feel like part of what makes guys, him included, like me is that I am very tough to win over and I have really high standards for how they should treat me. I don't hesitate to disclose when I am unhappy with something but sometimes I take that too far and feel badly afterwards for giving someone a hard time...so do you guys think I should apologize or just try not to be so impatient and difficult?

Wow, I have really missed being able to get advice here...Eve, especially if you are reading, I'd love to hear your input, because you seem to have truly understood where I was coming from on this monogamy stuff all along. Also, I really appreciate friends like Hiya and Sophia being so understanding as well...it takes a lot of compassion and intellect to put yourself in someone else's shoes when that person's nature probably strikes you as quite odd. Oh well, I am nothing if not peculiar, and I don't mind that, I'd just like to be the best Stacy I can be, and sometimes I need help to see how to best treat others.
Well sweety, you sound like a girl in love. :D

[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
However, I think Hiya was right that he assumed that not bringing up exclusivity didn't mean we weren't exclusive, just the opposite in fact. He really seems to be thinking and acting like he's my boyfriend, and while a month ago I would have resisted that, I have to say now that it makes me pretty happy deep down. I like him A LOT--he's gorgeous, one of the best two or three lovers I've ever had (and yes there have been a lot, part of why I like to sleep with guys is to weed out the ones who don't do it for me sexually), very smart, perhaps smarter than me, which turns me on a lot, and he's also sweet and upfront and has his own life. Since I am often stubborn and difficult, I like that he's easygoing but not willing to let me walk all over him...in fact, I find myself wanting to be a nicer, more upstanding, and sweeter person when I'm around him. [/QUOTE]
Everything a strong woman wants in a man. What is the harm in staying with him a while and seeing where this goes? You, becoming exclusive does put your heart at risk, but sometimes the most rewarding things are risky.
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
As far as the exclusivity thing is concerned, I still don't really know what to do. I feel like I should have brought it up months ago if I was going to bring it up at all. In fact, thinking back, he did say something early on about birth control that made me think he saw us as exclusive nearly from the beginning. I also don't think he'd want me around him and his friends if he was dating other women...from what I've overheard, his close friends all know about me and seem to consider me his girlfriend. And he's super busy, but he always answers when I call or calls me right back...I think he might really like me like I like him, and that makes me okay with being his girlfriend.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you really need to talk to him to make a decision, for yourself, about becoming exclusive. You can choose to do it. Although, as great as he seems, I'd still want to know he wasn't seeing anyone else as well.
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
Plus, he's moving to my hometown, and he knew before he decided to accept that job that I'd be living there too...so all in all, I feel a lot more confident in the whole thing than I felt before I left, when I posted the rest of this thread. I don't really want to date other guys, so I don't want to bring that up, though I think I will bring up the birth control thing he mentioned awhile back and gauge whether I'm right in my assessment of his thinking about us.[/QUOTE]
He should have brought up birth control, isn't he a doctor, or studying to be one? I'm glad you are both thinking of this, but was he asking if you are already on it or if you are going on it? I mean, didn't he consider the possibility that you may already be sexually active? Perhaps that was his way of asking if you were seeing other men now?
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
I'm still not crazy about the idea of giving up all other men, but I think I probably should, as otherwise I would feel guilty and deceptive...so I will see where this goes. [/QUOTE]
Exclusive means exclusive. But, you know this. ;)
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
Do you guys think I should just take down my dating site profile altogether? I guess part of me wants to be positive he's serious before I make those kind of sacrifices, but I do know it's not right to date other guys without letting him know. What should I do about the other guys I was seeing? Should I just disappear or should I tell them I only want to be friends now? [/QUOTE]
You can hide your site, make it not searchable, until you are sure that you are ready to stop looking. That way you won't get any new responses. Any men that you are now chatting with and haven't met can get a nice note that you've met someone really wonderful and you want to give that relationship your best shot right now. The men you are seeing, and sleeping with.........well, that's a little bit harder. These relationships are what they are. Now you are trying to change the deal well into them. You will certainly find out which ones are truly your friends and which ones aren't. But that is a good thing to know. The point is, if you decide you want to be exclusive with your J, you will have to bite the bullet and tell these other men. Disappearing is a little girls way out. If you are old enough to sleep with them, you're old enough to end it with them, decently and responsibly. It's ok, you can handle it, this is part of living life the way you chose it. Living with this kind of freedom can be responsible or irresponsible, men running away without a word is exactly the kind of irresponsible behavior that sends so many women to this board, what would you say, of a man, who behaves that way?
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
Also, should I be nicer and more easy-going with J now than I have been in the past? It's tricky because I feel like part of what makes guys, him included, like me is that I am very tough to win over and I have really high standards for how they should treat me. I don't hesitate to disclose when I am unhappy with something but sometimes I take that too far and feel badly afterwards for giving someone a hard time...so do you guys think I should apologize or just try not to be so impatient and difficult? [/QUOTE]
I think it's perfectly acceptable to keep your standards high and maintain a life for yourself. These things do attract a man. But, I think a man also needs to know that a woman will accept him for what he is and he needs to know that you stand in his corner. Your softer feelings are evolving, as I think they should. Does that mean you will become a doormat? Of course not. Loving feelings and actions are different then doormat feelings and actions. Doormat feelings are about denial of self and self-needs. As long as you don't give to your own detriment, you can give honestly. Either way, at some point those softer, accepting and loving feeling are necessary to build the bonds I think you are hoping for. Neither of you should be forever walking on egg shells around the other. A relationship, with that much tension, can't last. At some point you need to take the chance of showing him your feelings, but I'd wait until he shows his first. Let him use the L word, when he's comfortable with it, first.
Wow, an exciting and scary time for you, but it sounds like it might be worth the trouble. Keep us posted on how things are going.
Eve
Yes, I agree. I really think you are right and intellectually I understand why I should be nice and patient. But here is the problem: there is a little mini Stacy with devil's ears sitting on my shoulder telling me bad things. For instance, now that I guess I've decided to be exclusive with this guy, every little thing I don't like drives me nuts and makes me think I shouldn't be so quick to give up on other men. It's like, well I'm not seeing X tonight, why not call up Y? And another evil part of me wants to be like, hey, if you're not going to do what I want, I'm going to date other guys who will. At what point is that just absurd and non-productive? What is wrong with me that I have no patience and no trust? Why do I always worry too much and assume the worst? I have no idea, but it is really bothering me lately. I really wish I could just be sweet and calm and patient and not get all mad all the time when things don't happen just the way I think they should. I guess it's all about learning to be more mature and less selfish, right? Or maybe I should be really hard on guys to make sure they are worth it? I just don't know where the right balance is between being kind/understanding and standing up for myself/demanding to be treated well. I also think that I make a big mistake with some guys in letting them know how to drive me nuts (not doing everything I want) which gives them power over me, which I do not like one little bit. Do you guys think I'm just totally neurotic and need to relax?
I was trying to edit something and I ended up erasing the whole thing...lost energy to re-type it. Anyhow saying you should read the "Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins. This helped me gain a clearer understanding of human nature. Between our inherent selfishisness and societies condtioning of shame and praise...we are one messed up society, or messed up ppl. It really is quite toxic when you think about it. Society has always been trying to control us to be and act in a certain way. To get married, have kids, with the whole white picket fences and what not. I see too many unhappy married ppl though. Like I was saying I don't think human nature really intended for two people to be together forever. I am scared that I would grow sexually unattracted to my wife. Then I would get depressed and live my life through my career. Put all of my emotional investement into my children, and when they leave have a mid-life crises. I would miss out on all the selfish activites that I desired. It happens way too often. My parents did the exact same things, and many other families around us. I have already become a bit bitter about that. But it really is all about your attitude. I have receantly decided just to not care about what ppl think about me. Because for the most part it is not going to change thier life. Most people are so self-absorbed in thier own perceptions that they don;t even sit to think about the things you do. As long as your not completely runinng other's life...than what is the point of being a goody-good?

I do however believe that their will be that one person...or the way I see it an equal. Someone who looks at the world the same, and feels the same about everything as you. I don't know about marrying that person. But I have a feeling that one person will be the highlight of my life. When it comes to ppl all together I generally feel that I have more of a grapse on things then they do. A lot of times I hear them say certain things and it just boils me up inside how dumb they are. I always let it go because I realize that they just dont understand and are oblivious to certain things. Sometimes I get jealous of other's ignorance and part of me wishes that I was the same. But we all have our own percieved realities and I am sure some ppl have throught that I was ignorant or dumb. I really have come to realize that worrying about what other people think is unimportant. I try not to jump down other people throats anymore when they say ignorant things...it just the way they are. I have learn to accept everyone for whom they are. It seems like if you get past the unattractive qualities of a person, everyone has a unique view on life that is worth knowing about. The only ppl I generally tend to avoid are the completely arrogant, narcissitic type...they bore me.

Anyhow, I am freakin neurotic myself...I am always changeing my mind about certain things. I always feel on edge, and never feel completely relaxed. I always have to be doign something. A lot of days I feel "stuck", like I am done with school now and I really don;t want to start a career. I have the ability but not the desire. I just never really know what I want to do. That so called "empty" feeling you were talking about before, it never let's me feel complete.

BTW Veronica, I would not feel bad about going out with guys with no relationship intention. I think most guys would be intriqued by that. If the guy does not have the proper social intelligence to realize that, then maybe he needs to learn. It is hard to get by in life without that social intelligence...maybe you could be the one to give him the heads up. I know I had a girl do that for me.
[QUOTE=Mcgunther]I was trying to edit something and I ended up erasing the whole thing...lost energy to re-type it. Anyhow saying you should read the "Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins. This helped me gain a clearer understanding of human nature. Between our inherent selfishisness and societies condtioning of shame and praise...we are one messed up society, or messed up ppl. It really is quite toxic when you think about it. Society has always been trying to control us to be and act in a certain way. To get married, have kids, with the whole white picket fences and what not. I see too many unhappy married ppl though. Like I was saying I don't think human nature really intended for two people to be together forever. I am scared that I would grow sexually unattracted to my wife. Then I would get depressed and live my life through my career. Put all of my emotional investement into my children, and when they leave have a mid-life crises.

I would miss out on all the selfish activites that I desired. It happens way too often. My parents did the exact same things, and many other families around us. I have already become a bit bitter about that. But it really is all about your attitude. I have receantly decided just to not care about what ppl think about me. Because for the most part it is not going to change thier life. Most people are so self-absorbed in thier own perceptions that they don;t even sit to think about the things you do. As long as your not completely runinng other's life...than what is the point of being a goody-good?


Anyhow, I am freakin neurotic myself...I am always changeing my mind about certain things. I always feel on edge, and never feel completely relaxed. I always have to be doign something. A lot of days I feel "stuck", like I am done with school now and I really don;t want to start a career. I have the ability but not the desire. I just never really know what I want to do. That so called "empty" feeling you were talking about before, it never let's me feel complete.

BTW Veronica, I would not feel bad about going out with guys with no relationship intention. I think most guys would be intriqued by that. If the guy does not have the proper social intelligence to realize that, then maybe he needs to learn. It is hard to get by in life without that social intelligence...maybe you could be the one to give him the heads up. I know I had a girl do that for me.[/QUOTE]

oh my gosh, I could have written the parts above myself! It's great to meet someone who gets where I am coming from, especially the last part about being neurotic, on edge, never quite satisfied, always wanting something more. Maybe that's just the way life is for passionate curious people who aren't easily contented with the status quo. Still, I'd rather have exciting and memorable experiences and be less content than be one of those people who is happy because they stick their head in the sand, don't pay attention to the world's serious issues and problems, and just focus on the inane details of their boring, not particularly stimulating routine. just like you, my biggest fears are boredom, suffocating in an unhappy relationship, feeling unfulfilled or like I am settling and abandoning my true desires and goals...also i hope i am never as dumb as i think you need to be to be consistently blissfully happy with your entire life. nothing against dumb people, as i certainly envy people who don't cry when they hear about the horrors of the world or despair thinking of the direction certain governments are heading...hey, i'd settle for just being able to watch the eagles lose in the playoffs without crying! funny, i have shed so few tears over relationships and love, but I can't help falling apart sometimes when I get really into reading about things like genocide and slavery.





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