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Hi everyone,

I am hoping that those of you who know me will reply so I don't have to repeat what I have said in a lot of previous posts. What I am wondering about is whether a guy I've become involved with intends to have any future plans with me and if so, whether or not I should feel badly about getting involved with other prospects in the meantime.

Anyway, I guess I should still provide some background. I graduated from a very elite college 2 years ago and still keep in close with lots of people there with extensive information on other alumni. I never wanted to find one lover or a boyfriend or anything like that, but I started to look at friends' friends to see if there was anyone in our little community that I wanted to get to know. I saw one really hot guy, who had become extremely successful through this networking site, and wrote him saying that I was impressed with his profile.

He wrote back right away, this being sometime in January, saying that he loved what I'd had to say too and that he wanted to meet up. We did meet and while I was blown away in person, I knew he was too smart and successful to fall for anything superficial. Since then, over time (he's busy teaching at the best high school in the state, coaching their sports teams, and getting his doctorate in education so he can be the dean of students at a ritzy private school in my hometown), we've started to become quite close, physically and emotionally. I've always preferred to sleep with men before I fall for them, as there can be quite a disconnect there, but I definitely think that this fellow alumni is worth my time. I think he thinks so too, because he calls me an awful lot considering his schedule and he always seems to answer his phone when I call. He also took plenty of time deliberating whether he was going to stay and teach here vs. whether he was going to head off and teach in my old neighborhood. He was still very conflicted about this while we first were together, and I can't help but think that his deliberation and subsequent decision to take the job where I'll be has at least something to do with me.

This could be nothing but unwarranted arrogance, which I certainly admit to suffering from...but I don't know, I think a guy that busy wouldn't take a lot of time out of his schedule to talk to a woman he didn't have any interest in. This particular guy and I have chatted a few times per week, including nearly every weekend night, since the new year. My instincts tell me that he's into me but doesn't know how to act since I'm so unusually independent and told him from the onset that I had no interest in one boyfriend. But when I get together with him late at night, during the few times he has free, I get the impression he thinks I'm his girl and that neither of us is tied up with anyone else. Part of me thinks since he isn't available a lot of the time, he should be cool with me doing whatever I want, but I know guys aren't like that when it comes to girls they feel are special for whatever reason. I guess my question is, if I like this guy, is it still ok for me to hook up with other guys if they're hot enough? And do I really owe some guy who can't see me more than once a week any loyalty?
[QUOTE=Mcgunther]no I wouldnt consider that healthy. But of course I have a hard time knowing what is healthy. It seems like I always stuck between what I think I want and what I actually want. I guess when I mean good girl...I mean the type that doesnt cheat, and I guess that is it. I love every other quality that the party girl/vixen type displays. They usually are too into guys though. I think I am a man with a mind like a female.[/QUOTE]

Mcgunther, for what it's worth, I think there are girls of the type you find attractive who can and will be loyal/faithful/honest when they come across a special man they truly care for. I also had to reply to this because I've been spending a lot of time with my old friends (mostly male) lately, and whenever we talk about dating, they always tell me that I am a man stuck in the body of a sweet, innocent looking little blonde girl. Oh boy, if anyone who knows me sees that, there will no longer be any doubt in their minds as to who I am, but oh well. I've never really held back from being honest about what I do when it comes to this stuff, so who cares, anyway, sorry. But like you said mcgunther, that characterization of me as a woman with a man's mind holds true in many ways and accounts for a lot of my inner turmoil when it comes to things like talking about commitment and my feelings :p. That's probably also why I love men so much, both as friends and more than friends.

So, update-wise, I still haven't gotten up the nerve to bring up any of this stuff to the guy I mentioned earlier, who I will call J (he actually has the same name as the last boyfriend J who I referenced here last year for those of you with amazing memories). However, I think Hiya was right that he assumed that not bringing up exclusivity didn't mean we weren't exclusive, just the opposite in fact. He really seems to be thinking and acting like he's my boyfriend, and while a month ago I would have resisted that, I have to say now that it makes me pretty happy deep down. I like him A LOT--he's gorgeous, one of the best two or three lovers I've ever had (and yes there have been a lot, part of why I like to sleep with guys is to weed out the ones who don't do it for me sexually), very smart, perhaps smarter than me, which turns me on a lot, and he's also sweet and upfront and has his own life. Since I am often stubborn and difficult, I like that he's easygoing but not willing to let me walk all over him...in fact, I find myself wanting to be a nicer, more upstanding, and sweeter person when I'm around him.

As far as the exclusivity thing is concerned, I still don't really know what to do. I feel like I should have brought it up months ago if I was going to bring it up at all. In fact, thinking back, he did say something early on about birth control that made me think he saw us as exclusive nearly from the beginning. I also don't think he'd want me around him and his friends if he was dating other women...from what I've overheard, his close friends all know about me and seem to consider me his girlfriend. And he's super busy, but he always answers when I call or calls me right back...I think he might really like me like I like him, and that makes me okay with being his girlfriend. We actually talked a lot while I was gone the past week, and he apologized for being out of touch while he was swamped with finals and everything. He even wanted me to come by as soon as I got home, even though it was after 2 am and he had some college friends crashing at his house. I was excited to see him and he was really sweet, he wanted to hold me really close the whole night while we slept. I was pleased that he made time for me and my schedule right away, especially because this weekend is crazy for him...he has his friends there because they're all in a wedding and his family in town because he's graduating from grad school. Plus, he's moving to my hometown, and he knew before he decided to accept that job that I'd be living there too...so all in all, I feel a lot more confident in the whole thing than I felt before I left, when I posted the rest of this thread. I don't really want to date other guys, so I don't want to bring that up, though I think I will bring up the birth control thing he mentioned awhile back and gauge whether I'm right in my assessment of his thinking about us. I'm still not crazy about the idea of giving up all other men, but I think I probably should, as otherwise I would feel guilty and deceptive...so I will see where this goes.

Do you guys think I should just take down my dating site profile altogether? I guess part of me wants to be positive he's serious before I make those kind of sacrifices, but I do know it's not right to date other guys without letting him know. What should I do about the other guys I was seeing? Should I just disappear or should I tell them I only want to be friends now? Also, should I be nicer and more easy-going with J now than I have been in the past? It's tricky because I feel like part of what makes guys, him included, like me is that I am very tough to win over and I have really high standards for how they should treat me. I don't hesitate to disclose when I am unhappy with something but sometimes I take that too far and feel badly afterwards for giving someone a hard time...so do you guys think I should apologize or just try not to be so impatient and difficult?

Wow, I have really missed being able to get advice here...Eve, especially if you are reading, I'd love to hear your input, because you seem to have truly understood where I was coming from on this monogamy stuff all along. Also, I really appreciate friends like Hiya and Sophia being so understanding as well...it takes a lot of compassion and intellect to put yourself in someone else's shoes when that person's nature probably strikes you as quite odd. Oh well, I am nothing if not peculiar, and I don't mind that, I'd just like to be the best Stacy I can be, and sometimes I need help to see how to best treat others.
Well sweety, you sound like a girl in love. :D

[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
However, I think Hiya was right that he assumed that not bringing up exclusivity didn't mean we weren't exclusive, just the opposite in fact. He really seems to be thinking and acting like he's my boyfriend, and while a month ago I would have resisted that, I have to say now that it makes me pretty happy deep down. I like him A LOT--he's gorgeous, one of the best two or three lovers I've ever had (and yes there have been a lot, part of why I like to sleep with guys is to weed out the ones who don't do it for me sexually), very smart, perhaps smarter than me, which turns me on a lot, and he's also sweet and upfront and has his own life. Since I am often stubborn and difficult, I like that he's easygoing but not willing to let me walk all over him...in fact, I find myself wanting to be a nicer, more upstanding, and sweeter person when I'm around him. [/QUOTE]
Everything a strong woman wants in a man. What is the harm in staying with him a while and seeing where this goes? You, becoming exclusive does put your heart at risk, but sometimes the most rewarding things are risky.
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
As far as the exclusivity thing is concerned, I still don't really know what to do. I feel like I should have brought it up months ago if I was going to bring it up at all. In fact, thinking back, he did say something early on about birth control that made me think he saw us as exclusive nearly from the beginning. I also don't think he'd want me around him and his friends if he was dating other women...from what I've overheard, his close friends all know about me and seem to consider me his girlfriend. And he's super busy, but he always answers when I call or calls me right back...I think he might really like me like I like him, and that makes me okay with being his girlfriend.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you really need to talk to him to make a decision, for yourself, about becoming exclusive. You can choose to do it. Although, as great as he seems, I'd still want to know he wasn't seeing anyone else as well.
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
Plus, he's moving to my hometown, and he knew before he decided to accept that job that I'd be living there too...so all in all, I feel a lot more confident in the whole thing than I felt before I left, when I posted the rest of this thread. I don't really want to date other guys, so I don't want to bring that up, though I think I will bring up the birth control thing he mentioned awhile back and gauge whether I'm right in my assessment of his thinking about us.[/QUOTE]
He should have brought up birth control, isn't he a doctor, or studying to be one? I'm glad you are both thinking of this, but was he asking if you are already on it or if you are going on it? I mean, didn't he consider the possibility that you may already be sexually active? Perhaps that was his way of asking if you were seeing other men now?
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
I'm still not crazy about the idea of giving up all other men, but I think I probably should, as otherwise I would feel guilty and deceptive...so I will see where this goes. [/QUOTE]
Exclusive means exclusive. But, you know this. ;)
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
Do you guys think I should just take down my dating site profile altogether? I guess part of me wants to be positive he's serious before I make those kind of sacrifices, but I do know it's not right to date other guys without letting him know. What should I do about the other guys I was seeing? Should I just disappear or should I tell them I only want to be friends now? [/QUOTE]
You can hide your site, make it not searchable, until you are sure that you are ready to stop looking. That way you won't get any new responses. Any men that you are now chatting with and haven't met can get a nice note that you've met someone really wonderful and you want to give that relationship your best shot right now. The men you are seeing, and sleeping with.........well, that's a little bit harder. These relationships are what they are. Now you are trying to change the deal well into them. You will certainly find out which ones are truly your friends and which ones aren't. But that is a good thing to know. The point is, if you decide you want to be exclusive with your J, you will have to bite the bullet and tell these other men. Disappearing is a little girls way out. If you are old enough to sleep with them, you're old enough to end it with them, decently and responsibly. It's ok, you can handle it, this is part of living life the way you chose it. Living with this kind of freedom can be responsible or irresponsible, men running away without a word is exactly the kind of irresponsible behavior that sends so many women to this board, what would you say, of a man, who behaves that way?
[QUOTE=Veronica_Mars]
Also, should I be nicer and more easy-going with J now than I have been in the past? It's tricky because I feel like part of what makes guys, him included, like me is that I am very tough to win over and I have really high standards for how they should treat me. I don't hesitate to disclose when I am unhappy with something but sometimes I take that too far and feel badly afterwards for giving someone a hard time...so do you guys think I should apologize or just try not to be so impatient and difficult? [/QUOTE]
I think it's perfectly acceptable to keep your standards high and maintain a life for yourself. These things do attract a man. But, I think a man also needs to know that a woman will accept him for what he is and he needs to know that you stand in his corner. Your softer feelings are evolving, as I think they should. Does that mean you will become a doormat? Of course not. Loving feelings and actions are different then doormat feelings and actions. Doormat feelings are about denial of self and self-needs. As long as you don't give to your own detriment, you can give honestly. Either way, at some point those softer, accepting and loving feeling are necessary to build the bonds I think you are hoping for. Neither of you should be forever walking on egg shells around the other. A relationship, with that much tension, can't last. At some point you need to take the chance of showing him your feelings, but I'd wait until he shows his first. Let him use the L word, when he's comfortable with it, first.
Wow, an exciting and scary time for you, but it sounds like it might be worth the trouble. Keep us posted on how things are going.
Eve
Oh my gosh you guys are awesome, that was the best advice ever. I really think you are both right about everything and I'm feeling more and more like I know what to do for now. Part of me wants to know everything right away and for everything I want to happen right now, but I know that's not possible or probably even desirable. I really like people who (like my friends here :)) bring out the best in me, and J definitely does so...in fact he is a lot more mature and responsible than I am in some ways, but then again, he's four years older and therefore had a head start. But it's good for me to be around people who are smart, driven, and successful rather than some of the slacker loser partiers I've hung out with, especially some of the guys I'm attracted to. Fortunately, none of the guys I've slept with recently is expecting anything from me in terms of dating or future hookups...they understand that I'm not the kind of girl that wants to be their girlfriend. But I am really happy to discover that I might not mind being SOME guy's girlfriend, as long as he doesn't pressure me into it, and as long as he's worth it. I don't know if I mentioned this, but the first or second time I hung out with J, he asked why I didn't have a boyfriend, and I told him in no uncertain terms that it was because I didn't want one. I think he kind of intuitively understands that I'm stubborn and rebellious in some ways and that it's best to use a gentle touch when it comes to things like commitment.

But there have been little things that have happened over the last few months that make me think he was assuming we were exclusive, one of them being the birth control thing, which in context, I took as him asking if I was sleeping with anyone else. Being me, I dodged the question completely and instead started blabbering about birth control...I just left it that we should use condoms. But in serious monogamous relationships, I'm not always such a fascist about that...it can get really expensive and inconvenient. Anyway yeah, I'm not going to sleep with anyone else for the time being and I haven't been on an ongoing basis recently...the other guys I've been dating deserve some sort of explanation, but fortunately I don't have to abruptly stop sleeping with them. As far as birth control goes, for now I think it's best to be doubly cautious. For whatever reason, I always end up with guys who get really into birth control and go to planned parenthood with me and everything, which I don't understand, but if they are willing to chip in, I think that's only fair. But maybe I'll fill him in on that, which would be a roundabout way of saying ok, we'll just sleep with each other.

And Eve, I especially agree with the last part of your post, about being nice but not a doormat. My tendency is definitely to swing more towards being too sarcastic and mean rather than towards being too docile and accepting, so I need to make an effort to be more patient and nice. Actually, I made a baby step towards being a nicer me today; I had been really tough on J and just kind of generally snippy and I apologized. That might not seem like much, but for me, it's a big deal to admit I'm wrong and say sorry, as I don't like to concede power at all. I figure that if I like and trust someone it's ok though, even though I don't really like it and I definitely don't want to be hurt, as long as I don't relinquish more than 49% of the power, right? ;) I wouldn't necessarily say that I love him now, but I do have genuine affection and respect for him, and I like him a lot, so you never know...one thing is for sure, I have NEVER and will NEVER be the one who says i love you first!!! You might as well just chop me up into little pieces.
[QUOTE=tigerlillyrose]Yeah, you are so right. We weak and fragile women with no mind of our own should be SO VERY AWARE OF VERONICA!!! I mean, she *is* dangerous, and until a strong MAN like you pointed that out, I looked up to her. Like, I thought she could be an angel on earth... :angel: No I really did! I wanted to wear the same clothes as her, I wanted to have the same friends as her, BUT NO MORE!!! Now, you've convinced me, Veronica is just setting a BAD EXAMPLE for the meek and timid women of this board, those women who should be PROUD that they have no spine (who needs it anyway?), and those women who have "Welcome" stamped across their a**es.... These are the women who are sooooo darned important, not only to this board but to society in general. After all, they are raising the next generation of women... We need to send Veronica a message: It's June Cleaver doing housework in heels and making dinner for her man OR YOU ARE A USELESS WH***. Take your pick, Veronica, because, quite frankly, we are sick and tired of your intelligence, confidence, wit, fun, honesty, and the like. Do you not get it? We women don't want or deserve that, so back off!!! :jester:[/QUOTE]

lol that was like the greatest post ever, Veronica Mars herself (on TV) would have loved it! That is like my favorite show, because it's almost like they made a tv show about a neurotic, nerdy, impatient, not very nice, girl who looks oddly similar to me. But yeah, anyway, what is so wrong with single women doing the same things single guys do? I just don't understand that, but oh well, I am glad there are women like you Tiger and Eve (by the way Nini where are you? come back!)

Anyway mcgunther, you are right too. I worry too much and am way too neurotic. I also get mad WAY too easily, I don't know why I'm like that. Mostly it just happens inside my head, but there is definitely a lot of turmoil sometimes, and I know it's all my fault that I create such mental drama. That is why I like to post here, I don't mind if you guys think I'm crazy or mean or evil or whatever. If I don't vent these irrational thoughts and especially anger here, I end up venting it to real people who did nothing really to deserve it. So I'm TRYING to be a nicer, more patient, calm, even-tempered person, but for some reason it's just incredibly difficult for me. In answer to your question am I ever really happy, I think maybe the answer is no...I'm happy in that I'm usually/generally content and having enjoyable experiences, but it's very rare that I feel absolutely completely satisfied with everything at a given moment. It's like, there's always something I'm thinking about that could be different, does that make any sense? I really envy people who can be laidback and happy all the time, because I just don't know if I have it in me. I don't think it's really about insecurity with me, I don't have much self esteem tied up in how I deal with men. I certainly don't like to manipulate and hurt people, but yet somehow I tend to do that when it comes to dating and relationships. Honestly, I think it's mainly that I like hot guys and sex, which is a major weakness and a vice of mine that can get me into a lot of drama/trouble/stressing/neuroticness. Unfortunately, men are not my only vice, I also like to drink and smoke pot, and every once in awhile I like some other vices too that I won't go into here. So all things considered, I end up spending a lot of time worrying about if I'm doing the right thing, if I should feel guilty, etc. I hope that kind of explains my problems, well some of them, I could probably go on forever!! :) Thanks for letting me vent, I was actually feeling irritated but now I feel better...now if only I could just learn to be patient!
oh mcgunther, what happened to your post? i wanted to reply to it. anyway yeah you guys, i think i'm just a little crazy. it seems like every single day i change my mind about what i want ESPECIALLY when it comes to men, who are by far my most time and energy consuming vice. last night and today i've been convincing myself that i just need to avoid any and all boyfriends until i can settle down a little and not be constantly flirting and tempted and just BAD. tomorrow, i might change my mind back, but the more i think about it, the more i think that j (my secret code name for almost every guy it seems) hasn't really done anything that makes him deserving of me to be monogamous or whatever you want to call it. maybe i'm just ticked off at him for no good reason, but that's the way i'm feeling...

sophia, thank you so much for being so understanding, you are a great friend. it's not often that i find girl friends who i really like, have a lot in common with, and understand each other. for some reason i have NO trouble in that regard with men...maybe some women should have just been born men? or maybe it's because men are always willing to be "friends" with women if they think there is a chance they might get laid. i'm actually surprised you don't have mostly male friends considering...can you tell me more about what kind of guys you like? there i go with the matchmaking again :).

so yeah, unfortunately for me and this whole situation, it's been one step forward and two steps backwards. i have finally made a firm decision to take my profile off the online dating site i never liked that much, but then again, i've also been talking to a ton of guys on email and my friend/networking site. am i being an idiot or a jerk if i agree to go out with other guys? i honestly don't feel like i should feel guilty, because i am not making and breaking any promises to anyone, but at the same time, i spend a lot of time wondering if i should feel guilty for things i don't feel guilty for, then i just do whatever i want anyway. maybe i just need to grow up? after all it wasn't too long ago that i was in much more chaos and drama when it came to men/sex/temptation/drama, now at least i have learned not to pretend i want a boyfriend and a relationship if i just don't, and right now my instincts are telling me NO NO NO not just one boy!! so maybe that is some progress, albeit in baby steps. either that or i'm just mean and selfish and a player. i really hope that's not true but you are right sophia that we cannot really change the people we are deep down. and it is very accurate to say that i get bored WAY too easily and probably need too much stimulation compared to "normal" people, also i don't know why, but i love power and control and i want them, i really do. in answer to your question when i feel rebellious it almost always involves me WANTING to do something that other people/society/the government might think was bad or wrong or something. part of me really doesn't want to or like to live by the same customs and traditions and assumptions and prejudices as the rest of the world. the only problem with that is that i don't have much of a choice about living amongst the rest of the world, at least no choice i can see as remotely appealing. although...patrick always wanted to move to mars, he's convinced that it's going to happen, maybe that's not a bad plan? :D (just kidding).





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