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Relationship Health Message Board


Relationship Health Board Index


I think that shyness in a guy can be pretty cute and a little endearing, but low self-esteem is another matter altogether. You're right, it's just not very attractive at all. I think if it annoys you about him now, then likely it would only grow to be more irritating if you guys were to actually start dating. You could remain his friend and try to perk up his self-esteem in little ways by giving him compliments and such. Maybe by being around you he'll grow to be a little more comfortable around women.
I know, you're both right. I'm 30 and I'm really ready for marriage & all of that. I haven't dated much - partly b/c I have strict parents, but mostly b/c I'm too scared of all the diseases and things out there.

I feel like there's no decent guy left! Religion & ethnicity are important to me, and I can't find that either. I met him online & took months to meeet up. I can't do that again.

I absolutely don't want to settle, but can I be reading too much into this? Yes, looks are not everything, but attraction is s/th very different & I don't have that with him....even as a friend, how do I keep it while at the same time not getting HIS hopes up? I don't think he would even fight for me!! Am I being an idiot to think in these terms? Where are all the good guys?? :(
There are plenty of guys out there.

You just haven't stumble upon them yet. ;)

Just keep your chin up.
I can't stand how most women take low self-esteem as an immediate complete turnoff. Have you ever thought about why the guy has low self-esteem? How are guys who don't feel good about themselves supposed to feel knowing the likelihood of finding a relationship is already slim to nil? Feeling good about yourself is not something that can be turned on and off with a switch.

I will use myself as an example. I turn 23 next month. I have social anxiety, I don't have any friends and I have never had a relationship of any kind with a woman (obviously I am a virgin as well). Where am I supposed to draw a high self-esteem from?

I will be happy when (or if) I can deal with the social anxiety and stigma of not having any friends (and the stigma of being a 23 year-old virgin is very depressing, not because I'm a virgin, but because I've never had an opportunity to get rid of that distinction), and when (or if) I can find that special woman to settle down with. Until then, I don't have anything to make me feel good about myself.
[QUOTE=Van_27;2866963]I can't stand how most women take low self-esteem as an immediate complete turnoff. Have you ever thought about why the guy has low self-esteem? How are guys who don't feel good about themselves supposed to feel knowing the likelihood of finding a relationship is already slim to nil? Feeling good about yourself is not something that can be turned on and off with a switch.

I will use myself as an example. I turn 23 next month. I have social anxiety, I don't have any friends and I have never had a relationship of any kind with a woman (obviously I am a virgin as well). Where am I supposed to draw a high self-esteem from?

I will be happy when (or if) I can deal with the social anxiety and stigma of not having any friends (and the stigma of being a 23 year-old virgin is very depressing, not because I'm a virgin, but because I've never had an opportunity to get rid of that distinction), and when (or if) I can find that special woman to settle down with. Until then, I don't have anything to make me feel good about myself.[/QUOTE]

I was in a similar position as you, Van. You have to realize that the dating game isn't about someone realizing you are a diamond in the rough, and rescuing you (from yourself). Although I think shy people should be given a chance (I am one, and I married one), people are basically selfish and if they don't have the patience for someone with low self esteem, they don't have to put themselves out at all. It sucks but it's true. You have to realize you're not just a victim, and that you have to take responsibility for yourself because no one else will. Plus once you get to know people, you find out you're more normal than they are, and your self esteem will increase.
[QUOTE=Seraph48;2866977]
I am sorry for anyone who has self esteem issues, but lets face it - what do you want, and why do you want someone else to do it for you? The ball is in your court when all is said and done, it is all about getting out there and taking chances. How can you expect anyone else to like you when you don't even like yourself? I know this sounds hard, but it is true. Most people are in there swimming for their lives emotionally, and can't afford to take on someone who will just hang on and not swim for themselves. Get to like yourself, it doesn't matter how many people like you or swoon at your feet or whatever; if you don't like yourself, it makes no difference.[/QUOTE]

It's not so much that I don't like myself. It's that who I am is obviously not attractive enough to garner attention from others. That's what makes me feel down on myself. Having social anxiety is bad enough. Being disrespected by society in general for it makes it worse.

I also don't agree completely with the notion that guys aren't attracted to shy girls who seem down. It may be true for experienced guys who can attract a lot of girls, but when I see a girl like that, I start asking myself about what her problems may be. Does she suffer from some of the same things I do, and if so, I'd love to meet her because maybe we can help each other. Of course, I could never instigate meeting anybody. I don't know exactly why I have the anxieties I do. It feels like something physically blocks me from trying to start a conversation.

With society today seemingly dictating that guys have to make the first move, how else am I supposed to feel? I take care of my appearance, I am active in the community so it's not like I hide in my basement 24/7, and I consider myself to be a nice guy. Sometimes I can do alright if I am approached, but I can't approach with the first move. I start to twitch, I get sweaty, which brings out body odor, and sometimes the anxiety gets bad enough where I have to sit down because I get dizzy.

It's unbelievably hard nearing your mid-20's and never having any positive social experience.
Van if its any consolation there are girls out there that actually prefer a shyer guy.

Me for one, my partner was very shy when we first met, I have dated the 'arrogant too sure of himself type', and I can tell you that I was MORE attracted to my boyfriend, because he was shy, he wasn't as forward and pushey as some guys are.

It really depends on the female you are wishing to attract, to me shyness isn't a weakness, it is actually a rare attractive quality to have as a guy, and you WILL meet likeminded girls one day.

:)
[QUOTE=brook65;2869581]Van if its any consolation there are girls out there that actually prefer a shyer guy.

Me for one, my partner was very shy when we first met, I have dated the 'arrogant too sure of himself type', and I can tell you that I was MORE attracted to my boyfriend, because he was shy, he wasn't as forward and pushey as some guys are.

It really depends on the female you are wishing to attract, to me shyness isn't a weakness, it is actually a rare attractive quality to have as a guy, and you WILL meet likeminded girls one day.

:)[/QUOTE]

Van and Therag, what Brook says is very, very true. I was not looking for a "shy" guy 17 years ago, but I had grown very wary of the arrogant/pushy men who wanted to take me out. When a shy, quiet artist approached me in the store I was working at, kicking at his feet, a light bead of sweat on his brow and blushing, I jumped at the chance to go out with him. And it wasn't a pity type of thing. I was genuinely honored and flattered that he'd somehow gotten up the nerve to ask me out being as shy and quiet as he is. I didn't feel like one in a sea of thousands like I had with other men I'd dated or just another notch in the bedpost, you know?

And I'm not a shy person. I have a very strong and assertive personality. I don't view being shy as a weakness. If anything, sometimes I wish I was a bit more shy. For our relationship, we compliment each other wonderfully. When a strong, assertive trait is needed in any given situation, I step in. When a "silence is golden" situation arises, he steps in.

And I thank my lucky stars every day that he asked me out that night in a shoe store. Evidently, I was his "secret crush" for quite some time, but he just couldn't approach a pretty girl and ask her out. His best friend was fed up with him, so he drove him to the mall where I worked and basically forced him to just do it. We've lost touch with that friend, but I'd love to find him and thank him for what he did, after such a fabulous 17 years with my now hubby.

Just wanted to share a perspective of a woman who found quiet and shy a breath of fresh air and very attractive :)
CandP, and EVERY OTHER WOMAN ON THIS BOARD--

What CandP described is what's wrong with most women today. Here's the problem: YOU'RE BEING TOO PICKY!

Should you give him a chance? Well, to answer your question, [SIZE="5"]YES!!!![/SIZE]. Anyway, the thing about nice guys--even exceptionally nice guys--is they will normal off after a while. Trust me, you can convince him that he's also significant and that you're not perfect. He will normal off, believe me.

What you shouldn't do is get a guy who's a bit too confident. Why? Because a guy with confidence is more likely to find you replaceable. A shy, eager-to-please guy will do ANYTHING to keep you happy. If you don't like that, then you can desensitize him over time. I know these things, because I was that guy at one time. For the love of God, GIVE HIM A CHANCE!
To add on some things (after reading some of the mislead posts on this thread)...


You women have to understand, it's not as easy for men to feel confident around the opposite sex. Think about it, you have men howling at you very often. And don't say you don't, because you get TEN times more attention than any guy on a regular basis. Before you even speak, you have guys trying to get a glimpse of your breasts and backside. What's more? You guys get SO MUCH of this attention, that you have the nerve to get mad and annoyed at us for looking! Most guys would KILL to have girls looking at us all the time.

You guys think our insecurities are a weakness, because you're used to feeling like the opposite sex is dispensable. These feelings (from men and women) are evident in life, in the media, and tradition. You women already know what kind of treatment the opposite sex gives you. Yes, there are the cocky guys who use women for one-night stands. But for the most part, men IDOLIZE women as goddesses. We really do put you guys high above us on a pedastal, and view each and every one of you as someone outside of our league. I mean, how many times in a movie have you seen a woman tell a guy she isn't interested? It's disgusting! She doesn't even give him a chance to try! Do you ever see a guy turn down a girl? Do you ever hear a guy saying "I'm just not ready for a relationship" or "I need some space" or "I don't need a woman to be happy"?

Guys NEED love from you women. I think it's sad that you don't understand how much power you really have over males. You think it's okay to totally ruin a man's self-esteem, not because he's mean or cocky, but because he's TOO nice. That's called being PICKY, and it's wrong! I also don't think you realize how severely such put-downs mentally mess with a guy's personality.

Again, I say these things as an actual MAN who has been through this, as have many other guys.
hi,
my boyfriend is shy, has a slightly low self esteem, and is quiet but in a non-rude way. he is the nicest guy i have ever met, honestly. i would never have thought that he was interested in me. he asked me on a date (formally!) and he was very respectful throughout the entire evening. and this was the shy, quiet guy that always let his friend (who also had class with us) do all the talking. i gave him a chance, and while sometimes i get a little annoyed at his insecurities, he puts up with mine as well, he is more compassionate, understanding, shares his feelings with me more than the average man, and listens to my feelings and needs. he does so much for me...its crazy! we have been together for two years and he is the best thing that ever happened to me.

one date...thats all it took for me and i was hooked! give him a try. if not, then just tell him you aren't really all that into him and hopefully you guys can still have awesome conversations!

good luck.
If you are young, attractive and have guys knocking on your door, you may not need to accept guy with self-confidence problems and try to help him.
If it is not the case you better take a basically descent person and try to help him to overcome his problems. That is my take on it.
[QUOTE=galinaqt;2883160]If you are young, attractive and have guys knocking on your door, you may not need to accept guy with self-confidence problems and try to help him.
If it is not the case you better take a basically descent person and try to help him to overcome his problems. That is my take on it.[/QUOTE]

Well, I take exception to the notion that if you're not 21, with a slammin' Victoria Secret body, then you have to settle for something other than what you want in a man. I don't buy that, and when you settle, it hardly works out for the best. I think there are all kinds of people, male and female. If you're a Sharon Osbourne type of woman, who wouldn't mind or who would even enjoy running the show, taking care of the household as well as the business, negotiating contracts and fighting your husband's battles for him, then a shy, retiring, unassertive man may work for you, but if you're not and dont' want to be that kind of woman, if you want a man who is strong, independent, emotionally stable, assertive, a take-the-lead kind of guy, then you should keep looking until you find him. And as long as you take care of yourself, take pride in yourself and feel good and confident about yourself, you don't have to be young and hot to get a man who will make you happy.
[QUOTE=Larrylou'smom;2885199] If you're a Sharon Osbourne type of woman, who wouldn't mind or who would even enjoy running the show, taking care of the household as well as the business, negotiating contracts and fighting your husband's battles for him, then a shy, retiring, unassertive man may work for you, but if you're not and dont' want to be that kind of woman, if you want a man who is strong, independent, emotionally stable, assertive, a take-the-lead kind of guy, then you should keep looking until you find him.[/QUOTE]

Well thats implying that only PUSHEY women are attracted to shy guys?

My partner is shy and gentle, and I am also a very shy person, we both have very similar personalities infact, I don't 'run the show' or fight his battles, neither one of us takes the lead, we are both equal in our relationship, and we both give and take etc on an equal level.

Being a shy person myself, I am not attracted to the typical arragant type of guy, who yes may be attracted to me as they feel they can take advantage, I actually was more attracted to my 'shy' boyfriend, because he was 'shy', as he was not pushey with me, and respected me as a woman when we first met.

It is actually a breath of fresh air to meet a MAN who isn't full of himself, and does have some shyness I think
[QUOTE=brook65;2885610]Well thats implying that only PUSHEY women are attracted to shy guys?

My partner is shy and gentle, and I am also a very shy person, we both have very similar personalities infact, I don't 'run the show' or fight his battles, neither one of us takes the lead, we are both equal in our relationship, and we both give and take etc on an equal level.

Being a shy person myself, I am not attracted to the typical arragant type of guy, who yes may be attracted to me as they feel they can take advantage, I actually was more attracted to my 'shy' boyfriend, because he was 'shy', as he was not pushey with me, and respected me as a woman when we first met.

It is actually a breath of fresh air to meet a MAN who isn't full of himself, and does have some shyness I think[/QUOTE]

No, I wasnt' implying that. I'm just saying that's what I see usually working in the long run. Take for example the rock and roll guy. Most of them are arrested adolescents, not very mature, not very good business heads,not very good with that kind of thing. Most of them who have marriages that have lasted years are married to very strong women who handle the business, run the home, and take the lead, like Sharon Osbourne, Debbie Santana, and Barbara Springfield.

I'm rather shy, avoid confrontations, am introverted, etc. and I dated a like minded fellow for a couple of years, and neither of us took the lead either, and as a result, in the long run, it was disaster. He ended up marrying a Sharon Osbourne type. I just think if the bills are going to get paid, if the business is going to be run, if the neighbors are going to be put in their place when they step over their bounds, if someone bullies your kid, someone has to go talk to the parents of the bully and get it straightened out. If both people are shy and afraid of conflict and avoid confrontation and don't handle money well, etc., then who's it going to be?
[QUOTE=brook65;2885610]Well thats implying that only PUSHEY women are attracted to shy guys?

My partner is shy and gentle, and I am also a very shy person, we both have very similar personalities infact, I don't 'run the show' or fight his battles, neither one of us takes the lead, we are both equal in our relationship, and we both give and take etc on an equal level.

Being a shy person myself, I am not attracted to the typical arragant type of guy, who yes may be attracted to me as they feel they can take advantage, I actually was more attracted to my 'shy' boyfriend, because he was 'shy', as he was not pushey with me, and respected me as a woman when we first met.

It is actually a breath of fresh air to meet a MAN who isn't full of himself, and does have some shyness I think[/QUOTE]

No, I wasnt' implying that. I'm just saying that's what I see usually working in the long run. Take for example the rock and roll guy. Most of them are arrested adolescents, not very mature, not very good business heads,not very good with that kind of thing. Most of them who have marriages that have lasted years are married to very strong women who handle the business, run the home, and take the lead, like Sharon Osbourne, Debbie Santana, and Barbara Springfield.

I'm rather shy, avoid confrontations, am introverted, etc. and I dated a like minded fellow for a couple of years, and neither of us took the lead either, and as a result, in the long run, it was disaster. He ended up marrying a Sharon Osbourne type. I just think if the bills are going to get paid, if the business is going to be run, if the neighbors are going to be put in their place when they step over their bounds, if someone bullies your kid, someone has to go talk to the parents of the bully and get it straightened out. If both people are shy and afraid of conflict and avoid confrontation and don't handle money well, etc., then who's it going to be?
[QUOTE=brook65;2885610]Well thats implying that only PUSHEY women are attracted to shy guys?

My partner is shy and gentle, and I am also a very shy person, we both have very similar personalities infact, I don't 'run the show' or fight his battles, neither one of us takes the lead, we are both equal in our relationship, and we both give and take etc on an equal level.

Being a shy person myself, I am not attracted to the typical arragant type of guy, who yes may be attracted to me as they feel they can take advantage, I actually was more attracted to my 'shy' boyfriend, because he was 'shy', as he was not pushey with me, and respected me as a woman when we first met.

It is actually a breath of fresh air to meet a MAN who isn't full of himself, and does have some shyness I think[/QUOTE]

No, I wasnt' implying that. I'm just saying that's what I see usually working in the long run. Take for example the rock and roll guy. Most of them are arrested adolescents, not very mature, not very good business heads,not very good with that kind of thing. Most of them who have marriages that have lasted years are married to very strong women who handle the business, run the home, and take the lead, like Sharon Osbourne, Debbie Santana, and Barbara Springfield.

I'm rather shy, avoid confrontations, am introverted, etc. and I dated a like minded fellow for a couple of years, and neither of us took the lead either, and as a result, in the long run, it was disaster. He ended up marrying a Sharon Osbourne type. I just think if the bills are going to get paid, if the business is going to be run, if the neighbors are going to be put in their place when they step over their bounds, if someone bullies your kid, someone has to go talk to the parents of the bully and get it straightened out. If both people are shy and afraid of conflict and avoid confrontation and don't handle money well, etc., then who's it going to be?
I'll add some low-self esteem "nerd" perspective onto this. I am not trying to sound like I am bragging (I am trying to make a point), but I am a very intelligent guy. I am graduating early from one of the top universities with a masters degree. I am 6'1" and pretty athletic. I can be funny and witty. I am pretty good at reading people so I am empathetic. My friends would all agree that I would be a great prospect for women.

However, women scare the crap out of me. I have high self esteem in most other situations. I am very comfortable talking to other guys and to the girlfriends of my male friends (because they are "off the market"). In many situations, I am the leader of men. Most of my friends seem to value my opinions and what I have to say more. I usually make the decisions in the group. One time I even had to step up and get into a physical fight to protect my friends. However, with single women, I am nervous as hell.

Now, let's take a look at a "nerd" (by nerd I mean good intelligent guys who seem to have low self esteem, they are often normal looking). People who are intelligent, funny, witty, and in general good at many aspects in life are often so good only because they try hard. They study hard, they listen, they observe... they are perfectionists. Almost by default, they are not as good as they wish to be. If I thought "Oh, I am smart and I can do anything" then I would have dropped out of school (and probably in effect become one of those cocky stupid guys). In fact, most of the better guys are like this, they think they are not good enough and they keep improving themselves.

I think the reason why I am nervous about women is that if I start a relationship, I know that there is now somebody else at stake. If I hurt myself, I can live with it, but if I hurt someone else, that would bother me for a long time. Also, on approaching women: I am often thinking "She might not like me. She might be annoyed that some random guy is approaching her, I know that I sometimes get annoyed when random people start talking to me. Maybe she does not want to be bothered." This is empathy backfiring on me. I care too much about others that it makes me nervous. This is why you sometimes hear people say, "That is a great looking girl, why is she going out with that jackass?" The "jackass", who does not care about others, is more confident. In fact, guys who think "this girl is lucky that I am hitting on her, she should be grateful that I want to have sex with her" are the guys who look the most confident (but obviously, they are probably not the best guys for a relationship). Often, shy guys who would allow a woman to "walk all over" them care about the woman a lot. He values her a lot and fears the thought of losing her of pissing her off (which is why he tends to give in more).

Are all confident guys "bad" and are all "good" guys shy? No. Most guys discover that they need to appear confident to attract women. In fact, I find that sometimes, even though I really want to make a girl happy, I have to just go against her. I have tested this, the girl liked me more because I bossed her around a little bit. Guys eventually find the right balance of power (how much the guy should try to impress the girl before he seems arrogant, how much the guy should give into the girl before he seems weak, etc). Unfortunately for some, it takes them a long time before they get the courage to go out there and gain the experience to figure this out.

Don't discount all the shy guys. They can be great guys, they are usually just a little less experienced. However, if a guy has too little self esteem (i.e. he even lets his male friends walk all over him, he is afraid of people in general, etc), that can be a problem. But if a guy is nervous around a woman, that is proof that he likes her.





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