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[QUOTE=rosequartz;3173228]I also want to add that it seems that there are so many women desperate for a man's company that they will accept any kind of bad behavior from that man just so they can "have one"......pulleeze.....
this may be a more general observation, but I truly believe that until women start expecting......no.....demanding proper treatment and respect, there is no reason for men in general to shape up......why should they? there will be some other desperate women willing to take him as he is.....flaws and all......
women need to stop being so desperate and start demanding respect and until they do, they will keep getting what they get......
:angel:[/QUOTE]

I think this is completely true. So many people, men included, would much rather be with [I]anyone[/I], than be with someone worthwhile. Then they come to sites like these, or to friends and look for help.

It's also easier to see the bad, b/c people are more intersted in it. Look at the news... how often to you hear about the uplifting stories? How many talk shows feature successful, happy marriages? Very little, b/c the audience is bored by it, they want to see people worse off than they are. The general public takes more notice to bad news than to good.

I don't believe that every man is a cheater and a liar. And I honestly believe that anything applied to a man, can be applied to a woman. I know plently of manipulative woman who treat incredibly nice guys like a door mat. I do believe that every [I]individual[/I] has the ability to lie, or mislead.. whether its to gain something, or avoid conflict.. it happens. [B]We all[/B] do it.

You will never meet anyone in life, man or woman, who hasn't been burned and scared by a previous relationship. And I think most of those people will go through a period of "giving up" on the gender that hurt them. I've been there. I've sworn every man to he!! after being repetitively hurt by guys. Once some of the pain subsided, and my head was clear again, and I was a bit older and matured, I realized that I was particially at fault for my own pain. Regardless of what a jerk the guy was, how bad he treated me, I kept myself in that situation. He may have been an *****, but I was stupid. 50% to blame for my own hurt.

I still have my issues with men, and trust. And I'm working on it. I lost faith in men for a while, until I met one that proved my way of thinking wrong. He showed me that not all men are horrible, selfish creatures just out for their own pleasure. I'm sure he spits out a few white lies now and again.. but I'm sure I have as well. In the big picture.. he's one of the good ones.

I agree with what a poster said about woman being ready for marriage and family before men. Women do mature faster than men. I think there are some men out there that genuinely want to be with only one woman for the rest of their life. I believe that some men really do want the full commitment, marriage. It may just take them a bit longer to get there.

Don't give up completely. You don't want to shrivle into a bitter old cat lady do ya!?!? haha It's not as if "good men" are a limited supply, and you have to "get yours before they run out!" It just takes some time, patience and effort to find them. Part of that process is giving a few guys a chance. Nothing worth having comes easily.
[QUOTE=happymom28;3174668]You can not change a person! They are who they are!

This day and age people are so quick to hop into relationships with whoever so they are not alone and they spend the rest of their time trying to "mold" their SO's into their ideal mate. What is so bad about being yourself and single and not settling? Why do people feel like they are nothing unless they are in a relationship? It's sad really.[/QUOTE]

This really rings true for me. And one of the main issues I was bringing up too. People can't change their baser nature, and to ask a person to do so is not right - they should not have to be 'moulded'. Yes, compromise. But I find with so many men there are alot of innate characteristics that can't be changed, and women's expectations only seem to be growing. It seeming more and more impossible to me, and I'm losing hope. Seems sometimes that even the women that are the most 'switched on', confident, intelligent - the strong ones who are such brilliant advice givers - they are getting cheated on just the same, or treated badly, whether they realise it or not. And so that doesn't hold out much hope for the rest of us.

All of you have made fantastic points. It all just seems to be such an impossible combination of factors, like pot-luck, to end up with the right person - or any person really - and that makes me feel very sad and alone. I'm in a situation at the moment where I'm with a man that I do love, but we are not in an official relationship, and as much as I love being with him, I think the general consensus is that I'm being used. Its hard to admit that I am, and perhaps from some perspectives, I'm not. But then there's the decision to either stick by him and have faith in my strong love for him, or just cut my losses, yell at him for not giving me the situation I want and the level of relationship I want and leave. Has he treated me badly? Not especially. Its more his passivity and lack of committing that has hurt, not anything more sinister. But I can't MAKE him go out with me more seriously, or love me more, or want to spend a future with me, or be more pro-active...noone can make anyone do anything like that. I think alot of people try. And that is why there's so much manipulation and hurt in the world.

I cannot make my decision to stay or go at this point. I simply don't know what is the right step, or if there is a right one. Perhaps he is the best kind of man I can get... bar one that is obsessed with me, but that I do not love. And yes, I'll keep looking, but then the next one will have some flaw too... and should I then throw him out and keep looking again? When does the 'looking for what I deserve' turn into being too demanding, and all alone in life? At what point to we accept that thats just the way men are?
[QUOTE=~Tyger~;3174781]

I cannot make my decision to stay or go at this point. I simply don't know what is the right step, or if there is a right one. Perhaps he is the best kind of man I can get... bar one that is obsessed with me, but that I do not love. And yes, I'll keep looking, but then the next one will have some flaw too... and should I then throw him out and keep looking again? When does the 'looking for what I deserve' turn into being too demanding, and all alone in life? At what point to we accept that thats just the way men are?[/QUOTE]

Well, if you would like to elaborate on just how you feel he neglects you or is passive about your relatonship, then we'd be glad to listen and lend an impartial ear. But I don't think it's ever a good idea to settle for someone that you feel is much less than you wanted in a relationship.

I've found that's a really fine line to walk, when are you standing up for what you deserve, and when are you being too demanding? That's a hard one for a lot of women, I think. My ex said I was pretty demanding, although I really tried to be the cool girlfriend and not get upset, so I still struggle with who was right, him or me. I' like another relationship to try again and to see where I can improve and where I can be secure and strong without surrender or being too demanding. But I think as long as you truly have respect for the person you're with, and you always treat him with respect for his person, his time, his space and his needs, then I think you should be in a pretty safe place to feel free to expect your needs to be met as well without being too demanding.

But I think going into a relationship with the attitude of "well, this is the best I'll ever find, so..." is kind of setting yourself up for failure. Sure, every guy is going to have flaws, no one is perfect, or will be a perfect fit, there will always be compromise and adjustments to be made, but I think when it's right, and when you're ready, you'll be able to make those compromises and still feel cared for and loved.

As far as whether monogamy is natural for humans and should you even expect it from a man, well, I think it's natural for some people, not for others. I've only loved one man in my whole life, and despite my very best efforts and my true, genuine desire to love someone else, never found it. I've never had sex, but sexual contact with only two men, this one I loved, and one I tried it with in an attempt to forget the first one, and I cried in themidle of it because he wasn't the one I loved. So I'd say monogamy comes very naturally to me. It's possible.

But as far as this new guy, I say stick with it as long as you are comfortable and feel the good parts of being with him are outweighing the bad parts and you feel confident and secure and cared for.





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