It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Relationship Health Message Board


Relationship Health Board Index


Re: Dating.
Nov 8, 2007
yes, he does sound pretty awful!! If I wre you, I'd be dancing a jig that I finally got rid of such a loser.

But I also know that when you're in the thick of a relationship you can't always see the forest for the trees. It's like a slot machine. Of course if he were always horrible 24/7, you'd have been long gone. But we keep putting in quarters, trying to have faith through the abusive, lousy, hard times, hoping that one of our quarters will bring the jackpot of cuddles and kisses and sweet words and promises of forever. It's only when we learn that love isn't a gamble, it's not supposed to be a game and it's never supposed to hurt, and you should NEVER have to struggle to hang onto your self esteem despite the person you're with, is when we can finally get off that merry go round.

I think it's' sometimes hard for us women. Like I've said before, I know I personally have received a great deal of pressure from people who claimed to be my friends, pushing me into pursuing relationships with men I knew were just so wrong for me. But they dont' want to hear it. "You're being too picky" You must want to be alone, then" "don't cry to me about being alone, then" "you're getting older, you're running out of time" "why don't you want to date him, he treats you like a princess, you must not be ready to date anyone yet, then." It can really be awful, the pressure people put on you. But you just have to really know yourself, and be stronger than youe vern thought you'd have to be. That's the one good thing that came out of my bad relationship. Once I got past the hate, past the wanting to tell him how much he hurt me, wanting him to care somehow about how much he had hurt me, etc. I realized the part I played in all of it.

Now, I am NOT a victim blamer by any means. i know a lot of people who don't believe there's really any such thing as a victim and we cna choose to be a victim or not, and they blame the victim. I think that's hog wash. I think there are bad, evil, wicked, self serving, sociopathic, mean spirited people in the world, and despite your best efforts, sometimes they will succeed in hurting and damaging you. But I did realize I had more power to prevent being a victim than I had given myself credit for. And I realized this when I reconnected with this guy, they guy who had introduced me to my ex in fact. I needed to just revisit that period in my life to just figure some things out, and while on the outside it may have looked pathetic of me, I'm actually so glad I did. It was a great learning experience. I learned that this friend of mine, is just who he is. He's selfish, narcissistic, he's a megalomaniac, he's pushy, obnoxious, overbearing, borrowing money and never paying it back, and if he did, expecting me to drive an hour out of my way to come get it when he had no problem coming to my place to get it, bumming rides off me and after I'd taken time off work to take him to court to see about getting his revoked license reinstated, he'd criticize my driving all the way there and back, etc. After spending some real time with him one on one, I realized that I had a choice. I could continue to try to force him to treat me in a way he was just incapable of, I could fret and cry and whine about how he disrespected me and forever ask "why why why couldn't he see this, why can't he be like that?" blah blah, OR I could simply accept who he was, that this is all I was going to get out of him, and move on. So I told him he wasn't going to get any more money out of me until he repaid what he owed, because that's not a loan, that's me just being his personal ATM and that wasn't fair to either of us, and he could stop by when I'm free to pay me back. Well, of course I knew he would never bother to come to my place to repay the money I'd lent him, because he's selfish and disrespectful and a narcissistic megalomaniac, so that basically got him out of my life for good.

I realized he was taking advantage of me, but only because I was letting him. I thought it was the price I had to pay to not be totally alone in the world, but then I realized, that even though alone sucks, bad company is sooooo much worse. That whole experience made me much stronger. I can now turn a totallyd eaf ear to anyone who wants to put undue pressure on me, for any reason, to do something I know isn't right for me. I was in the movie theatre earlier this week, and there was a couple down front, a couple in the back, and me in the middle. It was a movie I wanted to see and enjoy, but the guy in front kept rudely shouting at the screen, being obnoxious. The old me would have sat there fuming and muttering under my breath, getting more and more upset, then would have gone home crying that some slob had ruined my movie, especially since I was alone. But you know what the new me did? i leaned over the seat as calm as you please, and just said in a calm, unemotional but firm voice "excuse me, not the only one in the theatre, thank you." And he shut up.

I learned it's all about taking your power out of the hands of someone who doesn't deserve to hold it anyway, and taking it back into your own hands. When you've mastered that, you won't care what this loser ex of yours says or thinks or does. It took me 10 years to get this far, and I sure hope it doesn't take you even half that long, but I wish you much luck on your journey.
Re: Dating.
Nov 18, 2007
[QUOTE=apple_juice;3310979]
Did he want to give it another go? I think so. .[/QUOTE]

If I may say so, I think you want to think he wanted to give it another go. You've convinced yourself he did because that feels better to you, but if he had really wanted to, he would have been willing to make the changes HE needed to make as well to make it work. He wasn't, and he didn't. He put it all on you, like he always does. that's not how someone acts when he's really willing to try it again and make it work this time. It didn't work because he simply couldn't and wouldn't give you what you wanted and needed from him, and if he had really wanted to, he would have. It's really that simple.


[QUOTE=apple_juice;3310979] I know, deep down, I could convince him when he gets back in the new year, to give it anther go.
I know, we could have got bak together so easily, but I didnt want it like that. On these boards, and I told him also, I dont want it to be easy- I want to talk, find solutions, before diving back in, otherwise what would be the point? Maybe I overkilled it?
I wish I had just given him al the time and space he needed before he went away..As I said, we could have got back together, but I didnt want that. I wanted him to be sure, to want to give things another go, positively, constructively.[/QUOTE]

That's just the thing. You want something you will NEVER get from this guy. You want him to love you in a way he simply isn't capable of. You really need to work on wrapping your mind around that fact. Sure, you can convince him to give it another go. You can convince him to give it another go till the cows come home. But you will never convince him to love you in a way he just doesn't feel in his heart. you will never convince him to give you what he just doesn't want to give you i.e. talking, solutions, taking responsibility for his missteps, being more attentive, etc. You can't FORCE anyone to give you those things if they just don't want to, or if they just don't feel you deserve it. And trying will only make a bunny boiler out of you.



[QUOTE=apple_juice;3310979]
Lets say, he does come back and wants to give things another go...even after this post, me wanting him, still loving him- could i go back? could i go back to possibly being hurt again for the third time? Lets suppose he declares his love and wants to be with me for the rest of his life- will that be enough??.[/QUOTE]

I think that's the wrong question. The question isn't COULD you go back, the question is SHOULD you go back. Off hand, I'd say, no. He's already shown you who he is, and it's not enough for you. This is where most people cut their losses and walk away.

I don't want to get into "let's suppose." There's a WORLD of danger in that. I mean, let's suppose my ex who broke my heart 10 years ago leaves his wife and comes back to me? Let's suppose Brad Pitt sees me somewhere and dumps Angelina for me? Let's suppose monkeys fly out of my you-know-what? Honey, that's a dangerous road to walk down. It's not rooted in anything real and it never leads anywhere positive, contructive or good.


[QUOTE=apple_juice;3310979]I know I am not entirely to blame, but looking back far back into the relationship, a lot of the problems were caused by me being impatient and implusive. Although I didnt jump back into things with him, maybe I didnt go about things in the right way.
Am I to be blamed again?

Update- there are guys who like me, guys i can date. why am I so hesistant? why am i scared to move on? im scared i may fall out of love with my ex....why???? shouldnt i be wanting that to happen?
ive got a clear head. the balls in his court. ibve been over things in my head- if he wants me when he gets back, if he earns me (doubt it, will take too much) then things may develop. if not.....i can move on with new guys and a new life.[/QUOTE]

It takes two to mess up a relationship, I think. You both are to blame, but laying blame doesn't matter. You both were who you were and it didn't work, that's all. No sense in going over it to the point of obsession to make it come out better in your head. Review it JUST long enough to learn from the mistakes you made so you can apply those lessons to your NEXT relationship.

It could be that you're afraid to fall out of love with your ex. Afraid that if that feeling goes away, all that will be left is numbness. Like Kevin James said in the movie Hitch "I've waited my whole life to be this miserable over someone and if hurting like this is the only way I can stay connected to her, then that's the way I have to be." Missing someone, pining for someone, hurting over them, is a way to feel connected to them because we aren't ready to let them go. Feeling pain is better than feeling nothing at all. I think in those cases, you really have to work even harder to get busy focusing on other people and getting as much social interaction in your life as possible. Work on feeling whatever it is you feel for your friends, family, this new guy, whomever, Don't force yourself to feel things that arent' there, but take each day at a time and be thankful for what it has to bring. It will hurt for a while. You just have to deal with the fact that you will feel bad, hurt, sad, lonely for a while. It's ok to feel these things. Those feelings DON'T mean you should go running back to an ex who doesn't treat you well and who isn't right for you just so you can avoid those bad feelings. It just means you need to heal.
Re: Dating.
Nov 18, 2007
[QUOTE=apple_juice;3312429]He use to be able to :( I wish I still had those times.
He use to be a very good boyfriend (yes past tense). Thats why I didnt want to give up. Amongst the insecurities, argumentes etc, I loved him, and he was good to me (yes, he did make mistakes, buti have forgiven him for them).[/QUOTE]

Well, first of all Apple Juice, I just want to let you know that I do totally get how hard it is. I've been there, and goodness gracious, after 10, yes count them, 10 years, it's something I STILL struggle with. My ex bore a resemblance to Paul McCartney, and that new movie that's out, Across The Universe, the lead male character also bares a resemblance to Paul McCartney, and he sits, acts, moves, gestures just like my ex so much it's awful. Even his hands are shaped the same and this skin is the same color, and it reminds me of how it was to be held in my ex's arms and it almost makes me faint I miss it so much. I cry and cry and it hurts like crazy but I have seen that movie I don't know how many times. As much as it hurts, I'd rather feel closer to him again and hurt than sit alone in my apartment feeling nothing at all.

I know the wild, seemingly insane things that drive us to bash our heads against brick walls when it comes to love. You just want what you want. But I'll tell you one thing I wish I had seen when I was in the middle of the relationship....is that you simply can't make someone love you. The first person you have to love is yourself, and then you will make better choices for yourself. I loved him more than I loved myself. I loved how it felt to be in his arms more than I loved my own self worth, more than I respected myself, and I turned down another suitor because I was still hoping he'd take me back, which he did, only to dump me again. Now at 42 years old, still single and childless and have to most likely live my whole life alone knowing that the only man I ever really had even a chance to love never loved me, and that knowledge has really damaged me in a permanent way. If I had known how it would have all turned out, I like to think I would have gotten out while the getting was good, before I got to the point where there was no saving my dignity and self esteem, given that other guy a more enthusiastic chance (to be fair I did give him my number and did tell im to call me, but he thought I wasn't enthusiastic enough, but it was mainly because he asked me out in front of everyone in the office and they were all "oh isn't that cute??!!! Oh say yes, he's a nice guy, you'd better be nice to her, blah blah" and it was very embarrassing) so it looks like I will be paying for my mistake forever. I've learned the hard way that life doesn't always give you a second chance, so you'd better get as much right the first time around as you can. And as much as you don't want to hear it, as dry and dull and lonely as it sounds, that does mean loving yourself first, before anything and anyone else. Sometimes there's no undoing the damage that is done by bashing your head up against some guy's brick wall. I don't think I will ever be really healed or whole again. I really hate to see someone else on that course.

Now, that doesn't mean you have to dive into bed with the very next guy who pays you a little attention. You have the right to be discriminating, in a fair, honest, dignified, ethical way. It just takes time.

I will address the issue of his saying "maybe we'll rustle something up when I get back" further in another post if you like, but right now I'll just say, you MUST read between the lines. He's assuming you'll still be around when he gets back. How long will he be gone? A month? more? That's a loooonnnnng time, and yet look how he takes for granted, look how worried he's NOT that you won't be there when he gets back. If he were really that into you, he'd be at least a LITTLE worried that he might lose you. He may have really cared about you at one point, but it's just not there anymore. Can it be revived? Only if HE wants it to be, and he doesn't. And you can't make him want it.
Re: Dating.
Nov 18, 2007
[/COLOR][QUOTE=Larrylou'smom;3312471]Well, first of all Apple Juice, I just want to let you know that I do totally get how hard it is. [COLOR="red"]maybe thats why you give great advice and understand so well. i just want to say, im so glad i have you here on this board to talk to.[/COLOR]

I've been there, and goodness gracious, after 10, yes count them, 10 years, it's something I STILL struggle with. My ex bore a resemblance to Paul McCartney, and that new movie that's out, Across The Universe, the lead male character also bares a resemblance to Paul McCartney, and he sits, acts, moves, gestures just like my ex so much it's awful. Even his hands are shaped the same and this skin is the same color, and it reminds me of how it was to be held in my ex's arms and it almost makes me faint I miss it so much. I cry and cry and it hurts like crazy but I have seen that movie I don't know how many times. As much as it hurts, I'd rather feel closer to him again and hurt than sit alone in my apartment feeling nothing at all. [COLOR="red"]I wish I could say something to make you feel better. The only thing I can say, and will say, is that you shouldnt give up hope. I know youre sick of hearing that, but come on. You never know what is coming up around the corner. He may still be out there- your one true love. Dont say he isnt. Because you just dont know![/COLOR]

I know the wild, seemingly insane things that drive us to bash our heads against brick walls when it comes to love. You just want what you want. But I'll tell you one thing I wish I had seen when I was in the middle of the relationship....is that you simply can't make someone love you. The first person you have to love is yourself, and then you will make better choices for yourself.
[COLOR="red"]This is so true, thank you for mentioning it. I am working on myself now. I want to feel secure once again, and whilst I post crazy emotional stuff on these boards, most of the day I am actually fine, continuing with life (although i have been ill recenetly, ive been at home fora whole week). Im stil going to university, applying for masters, trying to find a place to move out in central london, new exercise regime, enjoying time with friends etc. It feels peaceful. I am getting to know myself again and starting to love myself. I have so much to give. I always have.
Lets suppose he doesnt come back- itll hurt me so much, as i am sure you will understand, but ill think it will be his tough luck. I do value myself, although at times it may not appear that way but i do.[/COLOR]
I loved him more than I loved myself. I loved how it felt to be in his arms more than I loved my own self worth, more than I respected myself, and I turned down another suitor because I was still hoping he'd take me back, which he did, only to dump me again. Now at 42 years old, still single and childless and have to most likely live my whole life alone knowing that the only man I ever really had even a chance to love never loved me, and that knowledge has really damaged me in a permanent way. If I had known how it would have all turned out, I like to think I would have gotten out while the getting was good, before I got to the point where there was no saving my dignity and self esteem, given that other guy a more enthusiastic chance (to be fair I did give him my number and did tell im to call me, but he thought I wasn't enthusiastic enough, but it was mainly because he asked me out in front of everyone in the office and they were all "oh isn't that cute??!!! Oh say yes, he's a nice guy, you'd better be nice to her, blah blah" and it was very embarrassing)
[COLOR="Red"]was this the guy you mentioned on these boards not so long ago? no, dont get hung up. if he really liked you, he would have called you surely? do you still see him? maybe you could call him? you dont have to pay any price. if not, it just means he wasnt the one. he is out there, larry.[/COLOR]
so it looks like I will be paying for my mistake forever. I've learned the hard way that life doesn't always give you a second chance, so you'd better get as much right the first time around as you can. And as much as you don't want to hear it, as dry and dull and lonely as it sounds, that does mean loving yourself first, before anything and anyone else. Sometimes there's no undoing the damage that is done by bashing your head up against some guy's brick wall. I don't think I will ever be really healed or whole again. I really hate to see someone else on that course.
[COLOR="red"]No, I wont be on that course. I know it. I promise you.
As for you larry, as I said again, dont give up hope, and stop being so hard on yourself. [/COLOR]

Now, that doesn't mean you have to dive into bed with the very next guy who pays you a little attention. You have the right to be discriminating, in a fair, honest, dignified, ethical way. It just takes time.

I will address the issue of his saying "maybe we'll rustle something up when I get back" further in another post if you like, but right now I'll just say, you MUST read between the lines. He's assuming you'll still be around when he gets back.
[COLOR="red"]yeah, this is why I didnt take too kindly to it.[/COLOR]How long will he be gone? A month? more? [COLOR="red"]He will be back by the new year.[/COLOR]That's a loooonnnnng time, and yet look how he takes for granted, look how worried he's NOT that you won't be there when he gets back. If he were really that into you, he'd be at least a LITTLE worried that he might lose you.[COLOR="red"]I never gave him the opportunity to miss me, to feel like he could be losing me. I blame myself. I never let his mind wonder, I never let him come to me. I will always regret that- he always knew I wuold be there, even after he broke up with me, started seeing someone new, then he came back to me no problems, no questions asked. He doesnt know what it feels like to lose me. Maybe, he will miss me and realise something whilse he is away. maybe he wont. [/COLOR] He may have really cared about you at one point, but it's just not there anymore. Can it be revived? Only if HE wants it to be, and he doesn't.[COLOR="red"]i dont know if he does. time will tell me for sure. maybe it is obvous to you, but not to me, not yet. if he doesnt send me a message for my birthday, then i will know he just doesnt care at all[/COLOR] And you can't make him want it.[COLOR="red"]no, of course i cant control somebody else's feelings. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I would appreciate it if you could go over what you mentioned in another post. its what i am wondering about at the moment, and it would help to have your opinion on it. us women, we love to analyse and dissect, dont we?
Re: Dating.
Nov 18, 2007
"He may have really cared about you at one point, but it's just not there anymore. Can it be revived? Only if HE wants it to be, and he doesn't.[COLOR="Red"]i dont know if he does. time will tell me for sure. maybe it is obvous to you, but not to me, not yet. if he doesnt send me a message for my birthday, then i will know he just doesnt care at all [/COLOR]"

I know you said something to the effect that if he didn't make a real effort before he left that you would definitely move on and spend the time getting over him. Now you've drawn a new line in the sand saying if he doesn't contact you on your birthday, then THAT's the new "it." and if he doesn't contact you on your birthday? Will you draw yet another line in the sand? You said you know it was a mistake to not have let him miss you, but my question is, what did you LEARN from that mistake, and what are you going to do differently from now on?

Think long and hard about this one....is it really him, really truly him, exactly as he is all the time, in all his glory, that you want, or just the rush of emotion and endorphins when things are good that you've become addicted to? Seems like you have an awful lot of complaints about him. Are you sure you love him for just who he is, or for who you hope he'll be someday?

BTW, thanks for the words of encouragement, but at my age, it just seems silly to keep hoping. The guys my friends have set me up with have been guys I would never even look twice at and wouldn't want to converse with if they were sitting right next to me and the only other person in the room, and they have clearly felt the same about me. I was nice, smiley and made good eye contact with the first one, and he barely said two words to me, and left, and waited 6 months to tell my friend he wanted my number, never called, and a month after that married his ex wife. The second guy didn't even try to hide the look of disappointment on his face when he first saw me. I smiled anyway and offered my hand to shake and he didn't even look me in the eye as he mumbled something I didn't even hear, then started flirting with one of the other women at the table. I feel that was sending me a message, that my friends think this is my "league" and it would just be way too anticlimactic for me to hook up with someone who doesn't move me or excite me at all, but to settle because I'm old and running out of time and can't be too picky anymore. I could compete when I was in my 20s, I was very nice looking, even hot some would say, but I guess I've lost a lot of my looks over the years and the best I can do just, it's just a real let down. I don't want to settle, and I think that's what I will have to do if I want to realistically be with someone, and I just don't want to do that. So my choices are, be miserable alone, or be miserable with someone I really don't want. Poopy-piddle choice, as they say. At least alone, I can live by my own rules and answer only to myself. I dont' do well when I have to settle for way less than what I had my heart set on.
Re: Dating.
Nov 18, 2007
[QUOTE=Larrylou'smom;3312527]"He may have really cared about you at one point, but it's just not there anymore. Can it be revived? Only if HE wants it to be, and he doesn't.[COLOR="Red"]i dont know if he does. time will tell me for sure. maybe it is obvous to you, but not to me, not yet. if he doesnt send me a message for my birthday, then i will know he just doesnt care at all [/COLOR]"

I know you said something to the effect that if he didn't make a real effort before he left that you would definitely move on and spend the time getting over him. Now you've drawn a new line in the sand saying if he doesn't contact you on your birthday, then THAT's the new "it." and if he doesn't contact you on your birthday? Will you draw yet another line in the sand?
[COLOR="Red"]well, nothing was decided before he went away. we just argued and argued and argued (he argued, i only argued the night before he left because i couldnt handle it). thats why i find this difficult. i like clear, straightforward discussions. i always said to him, if you want to leave, tell me, and we will both leave. but he could never say that and always wanted time and space (which i couldnt give but hey he must know life isnt perfect). if things were cut off, straightforward then i wouldnt be in this mess :( its frustrating. [/COLOR]You said you know it was a mistake to not have let him miss you, but my question is, what did you LEARN from that mistake, and what are you going to do differently from now on? [COLOR="red"]thank you for asking that because it is a very important question. i have learnt, to give a man time and space when he wants it. not to keep trying to get him to talk, because a man, if he doesnt want to talk, wont talk no matter what. ive learnt not to be so pushy- i admit i have been in the past with him. learnt a lot of things. let the guy come to you. always. (reading lots of books)[/COLOR]

Think long and hard about this one....is it really him, really truly him, exactly as he is all the time, in all his glory, that you want, or just the rush of emotion and endorphins when things are good that you've become addicted to?
[COLOR="red"]i love him and miss him- the person who he is, not the drama and the mess that the relationship became. im not addicted. i am in love with him[/COLOR]Seems like you have an awful lot of complaints about him. Are you sure you love him for just who he is, or for who you hope he'll be someday? [COLOR="red"]no, i love him for who he is. i know i had a lot of complaints, but its because i had a lot of insecurity issues, i was frustrated, caused a lot of tension. i never saw how good he was at the time- because he was. it wasnt a horror show all the time. he was good to me, and patient. i tried telling him that things had changed, the issues werent there anymore, but he had been hurt so much, he didnt want to believe me. i wish he had.[/COLOR]

BTW, thanks for the words of encouragement, but at my age, it just seems silly to keep hoping.[COLOR="red"]no no no. it isnt silly. excuse me for asking, how old are you? you dont need to answer. i already know youre not too "old." come on larry. keep looking. whats the harm? i know he is out there for you. stop putting obstacles in your way.[/COLOR] The guys my friends have set me up with have been guys I would never even look twice at and wouldn't want to converse with if they were sitting right next to me and the only other person in the room. i feel that was sending me a message, that my friends think this is my "league" and it would just be way too anticlimactic for me to hook up with someone who doesn't move me or excite me at all, but to settle because I'm old and running out of time and can't be too picky anymore. I could compete when I was in my 20s, I was very nice looking, even hot some would say, but I guess I've lost a lot of my looks over the years and the best I can do just, it's just a real let down. I don't want to settle, and I think that's what I will have to do if I want to realistically be with someone, and I just don't want to do that. So my choices are, be miserable alone, or be miserable with someone I really don't want. Poopy-piddle choice, as they say. At least alone, I can live by my own rules and answer only to myself. I dont' do well when I have to settle for way less than what I had my heart set on.[COLOR="red"]youll find him. but not if you keep making it so hard on yourself. are you still looking? i know you complain dating agencies havent helped, but are you still trying?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Im going to be cheeky. But because I love reading your advice and support so much, would you be able to dissect the previous post too?
mwah ;) x x





All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:36 AM.





© 2020 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!