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[QUOTE=NoParties;4208545]Just an idea. Isn't what you just described a biased definition of a nice guy?
I mean for you, nice guy is the one that does the listed things, but in sociaty, would a man lose the chance to be called [I]nice [/I]if he wasn't doing them?[/QUOTE]

No, I don't think this definition is biased at all. I think the vast majority of us, and the majority of women out there, are pretty much in agreement as to what makes a "nice guy."

[QUOTE=NoParties;4208545]Lets say a man will not help take off the coat because he sees woman can do it easily herself.
Man will not open the door because he sees that woman can open them easily by herself.
A man will not help carry some bags if he sees that there arent many of them (= can take in one/two hands) and they are not heavy.
Not compliment if he doesn't feel like doing it, even tho he liked something about her.?[/QUOTE]

That's just being thoughtless and ungentlemanly. Of course a woman can open a door for herself. But if you're not going to be there for her, if you're not going to be attentive to her and be a gentleman for her, then what are you there for? A woman doesn't need a thoughtless, ungentlemanly man. No matter how independent and self sufficient a woman is, she still wants to be treated like a lady. I tend to think that sometimes not doing the gentlemanly things is a man's way of punishing women for their equality. I remember a tv show way back in the 80s called Moonlighting, Bruce Willis' first big gig, about a former supermodel, Maddie, whose accountant ran off with all her money so she had to make a go of one of her businesses she owned, mostly for tax write off purposes. It was a detective agency run by a wise cracking PI, David. One case they worked, I can't remember the details, but a crime had been commited and there were two suspects a man and a woman. Maddie was convinced the woman was innocent and David the man. They worked the case from both angles seperately and it turned out the woman was innocent, and David was so mad! He admitted that he was biased, that he wanted to strike a blow for mens' rights or whatever, and although he apologized to Maddie, the last scene showed David walking out the office door ahead of Maddie, who was carrying two armloads of files and folders, and David just walked through and let the door slam on Maddie and didn't even turn around to help her. That was his way of punishing her for her equality. this is not only thoughtless, but chauvanistic, and even bordering on misogynistic. Opening a door, helping her on with her coat, these are just social nicities, gentlemanly gestures of politeness. I've opened the door for other people, men and women, not because they couldn't do it themselves, but because it's just the polite, thoughtful thing to do. It's sad to see manners dying off, especially among young people.


[QUOTE=NoParties;4208545]BUT, such person would help if a woman [B]asked [/B]him to help take off the coat, help carry bags, help open door.[/QUOTE]

So you WANT her to become a nag? So you can gripe and moan about what a nag she is? If she has to ask the guy, he's not a nice guy.


[QUOTE=NoParties;4208545]Now the 'door mat'. Tell me if i understand this correctly.
This describes the person who would say "it's fine" in situations (like your example - woman is late for date),where he would actually feel dissapointed or angry insid?[/QUOTE]

Possibly, but not necessarily. If the woman is always really late, like 45 minutes to an hour late for everything, and never apologizes, then yes, he's a door mat if he just takes it. If she's 10 minutes late once, and apologizes and has a reason why she couldn't call beforehand, then he should cut her some slack and let it go. But generally speaking, I think number one, a door mat is a guy who allows himself to be pushed around and taken advantage of. What you have to ask yourself is, is her being late taking advantage of you? A doormat is also a man who is too eager to please. I went to a concert with a bunch of people, including a guy who was eager to impress me and he went to get drinks and asked me if I wanted anything and I just wanted water. he came back with a cup of water but was like "I didn't know what kind you wanted, is this ok? Is there enough ice? Did you want something else? I'd be glad to get you something else.. you sure this is ok?" After a while you're like "it's fine, shut up!!" Obsequiousness is not attractive. When you take people pleasing to that much of an extreme, it's an insecurity, and then you are making your insecurity someone else's inconvenience, and that too is very unattractive.





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