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Rk,

What do you mean by "not so attractive girls", plain janes??? I think most people are just plain janes or joes, few people are attractive. In my opinion, those attractive people do seek out other attractive people, unless there are other positive attributes the person has that outweigh his or her looks, or lack there of. It sounds harsh, but I really think that is the way it works. So I think that if you really want one of those attractive women and not a plain jane, you have to work on your personality... that does not mean acting like a clown or compromising your dignity, but being sexy, confident, charming, charismatic- not subconsciously playing the role of a victim which I feel you are doing- that is not going to attract anyone- wether you're good looking, tall, short, whatever. I think there are several injustices in the world, I think the trick to overcoming them is by not focusing on them but rather being grateful for the things you do have. So what if you are not tall and women do not automatically swoon over you- that does not mean you can't find happiness... I really think you can get what you want- just enhance what you do have and stop lamenting over what you don't have. My very good friend is dating a guy who is about 5'4 or 5'5- and from what she tells me, he is not too big in the "other department" as well. However, she is crazy about him and totally respects and envys him... infact, he is the one that will not committ at this moment. What she is attracted to is his personality- he is confident, has a good job, is intelligent, goes out to expensive places, carries himself well and is a charming man. And don't tell me that why should he do all that, when a good looking tall man can just stand there and do nothing and attract 50 women- you just have to accept it, rather then be angry about it. I think once you do that you will be happier. Women can say the same thing, that it is unfair that attractive, pretty women don't have to lift a finger to get a guy while normal women have to use every trick in the book to find a man. Moral of the story- don't be bitter- everyone can get what they want- they just have to work at it!

P.S. I forgot to add that another girlfriend of mine who is considered very pretty by today's standards is in a relationship with a guy who is about 5"4 - her height- she is completely into him- he has a great charming, positive personality and she is very physically attracted to him as well, even though his face in my opinion is not very appealing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder- that is my other moral.

[This message has been edited by nadine (edited 04-21-2003).]
No attacking hey? Good. Ok

First I really hope you get more opinions from women. I think sprout said some good things.

Now the disclaimer
Do not take anything I say seriously
I am a male about your age.
I also have never had a date or relationship in my life.
I am taller than you are, but probably not as accomplished or as comfortable with myself.
I also have extremely negative feelings towards anyone in law enforcement.

You seem to be saying that you have a problem with attracting, dating, and having the relationships that you would like with women.

Then you pose the question to women only, asking if the problem is that THEY as a group, have a hang-ups or problems with your height. (Because you certainly do not)

Your whole question and outlook seem wrong to me.

You were right the first time, YOU have the problem and you need to be more honest with yourself to discover what the problem truly is. Hopefully, the therapy will help you to do this introspection.

I agree with that notion that many women would like a man who is taller then they are.
Look, I feel your loneliness and your frustration. I live it. I feel it.
I do not know about 2 1/2 strikes, but you are right about having something against you.

BUT
There are ways to compensate.
You mentioned some… women do find superficial things like body, clothes, uniform, music, and stuff like that initially attractive.
But after the initial attraction there has to be a good personality, honesty and compatibility.

In general I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
What I can not agree with is that your height is the reason you have never been in a relationship and can never be.

Like sprout said, there are *perhaps* other factors.
I do not know if this is true either. But just from your writing style and attitude in your posting it does seem likely to me that you could take a better attitude and make changes in yourself which would make you more attractive and a better person.
Now is that good news???? That it is not the just the height? This gets back to my original question
WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR THINKING?
Because as I see it that is really the problem.

See, I am NOT saying that you are necessarily wrong in anything that you have stated.
But your thinking is wrong for the end purpose you wish to achieve, which is dating a girlfriend and a wife.

You are obviously smart and driven. I think with the right attitude and frame of mind you can find what you are looking for in a relationship.

In my case I know I have a lot of problems and a lot to improve about myself. I see myself as ugly. But I do not blame fate or women for only being attracted to beautiful people. I have to improve, it is that simple.

I connect with you as a workaholic. As someone with some standards and pride, and as a person having troubled with relationships.
I hope you are able to find a solution and relay it to me. So I do wish you the best in your quest for answers.
I admire your open mind and the way you asking and trying to understand what is required to get what you want. I wish I was able to approach problems the way you seem to be doing here.

By the way, as far as I know George W Bush is about 6’ and his father is a little taller.
I implore you to consider the contradiction in your statement that you shouldn't have to "settle" for an unattractive, or fat woman because you are shorter than average.

I don't think you are at a place in your life where you are looking for a partner. All of the things you listed that you think are attractive in yourself are not things most women consider when choosing a partner. There are women out there who look for those types of things, status symbols, but the vast majority of women are interested in personality traits that cannot be measured by the things you listed.

I'm 5'7" and attractive by conventional American standards. More importantly, I'm a good person. For much of my teens and early twenties I was in an on and off relationship with a great guy who happened to be several inches shorter than I am. Each time we broke up, I was left confused and hurt that he turned into a totally different person seemingly overnight. He would become obsessed with school, and later work, start spending hours in the gym and blow money on ridiculous things and basically turn into someone that I just couldn't stand. It was about two years after I called it quits for good that I realized that all of that crap came from him trying to "make up" for his height. When he would get like that, he would also become very controlling and possessive of me, something that was not normally like him. He would say things like, "You know that I'm strong, right?" and pick me up and spin me around the room to demonstrate his strength. He would start wearing these stupid Miami Vice suits all the time and drop wads of cash when we went on dates. It was just insane and very unattractive. I had to listen to his resume as an employee and a boyfriend all the time and I got sick of it.

Another guy I dated in college was about the same height as the other guy, about 5'4" or so. He was completely comfortable with his height. This guy exuded confidence, not arrogance, and women were on him constantly when we went out. His apartment was filled with photos of beautiful women who were ex's and also still his friends. He was not as physically attractive as the other guy I dated, but he was still good-looking. The guy was a vertiable chick-magnet, and there isn't really one or two things about him that could attribute to this. He just had something about him.

I know plenty of couples that are happily married in which the woman is taller than the man. It isn't your height that is stopping you from having a girlfriend. Your height is not causing women to not be attracted to you. Your preoccupation with your height can certainly be a contributing factor, but I assure you that this one physical trait alone is not the culprit.

It is interesting that when I finally broke up with the first guy that I mentioned, all of the men I knew assumed that it was because he was shorter than I was. My female friends wanted to know what he did to me. No matter what other men might tell you, most women just don't think like that, the same way that most men don't have a set weight limit on the women they will date. There certainly are women out there who would not date a man shorter than she is, but is that really the kind of woman you want to be with? Even though I'm thin, there is no way I would date a man who would automatically discount a woman as a sexual, attractive being because of her weight. It seems to me that you are looking for a woman who is superficial in the same ways that you are, by your own admission, and those are the women most likely to avoid men shorter than they are.

I suspect that part of your problem may the way you think of women as partners. You might not have any problems with having women as friends, but potential romantic partners can generally sense this kind of thing. You feel entitled to a certain "type" of woman. You talk about finding a woman the way one might talk about finding a new car or apartment.

Best of luck to you, seriously. You really do seem to be looking to fix this, but I honestly think that you are looking in the wrong places within yourself.
Balissa said exactly what I was trying to get across, except she was a bit more coherent.

I think it is a dangerous and sad thing to eliminate someone from your "dating pool" based on any one characteristic. I am not turned on by overweight men, but I dated one for 2 years awhile back. I wasn't instantly attracted to him, but his personality was so fun and sweet that I couldn't help but fall for him. He was much more concerned by his weight then I ever was.

I think what's hindering this individual is his own negative feelings about his height. He seems angry at women for dismissing him based on height, when really there may be another reason altogether for this. For example, he already assumes they dislike him or do not take him seriously as a dating partner because of his height. In truth, they may be dismissing him because he seems unapproachable or angry towards them because of his assumption that they will reject him based on this characteristic.

He is wise to not want to date a girl he isn't attracted to, merely to have a girlfriend. He is also "allowed" to have standards in a woman he dates. However, narrowing your dating pool just to prove that short men can get attractive dates is not in your best interest. If you were tall and happy with your self-image, would you really be so dead set on finding someone that is physically worthy of your company?

I appreciate how I can comment on your situation without you taking it personally. This shows a great desire to learn more about yourself and how you are perceived by others. As you have said, a message board may not be the answer to all questions, but it can provide some insight from impartial observers. My advice, if you're still reading: Stop seeing yourself as a short person. You are not the sum total of your physical characteristics, and quality women won't notice something so trivial in selecting a mate. Stop searching for someone who you feel can show the world that "a short guy can get a hot girl," and start looking for someone you can talk to and who has emotional stability and a good heart. Take it from those of us who HAVE been dating all these years....sometimes the best partners are the most unlikely of partners. You are a hard worker and are intelligent in sharing your thoughts...you have just as good a chance as the next guy.





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