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Schizophrenia Message Board


Schizophrenia Board Index


Hello all. I came here to ask if I may have schizophrenia. The reason I ask is because I have this thing with constantly being alone and never being able to reasonably sustain an everyday conversation past the first few words of "hello." and "how are you doing?" and that all fun stuff, and my efforts in making chit-chat online at a teenage-based website(They have adults near my age as well, being at 18 going on 19) seemed equally prone to failure. Also I can't reasonably seem to carry an ordinary everyday conversation if my life depended on it, and I've been called "squirrely" or "eccentric" in the past, so I'm thinking schizoprhrenia may be a valid explanation. The only other explanation that could explain any of it may be moderate giftedness but I doubt giftedness in itself could be causing these problems of isolation and my ostensibly inability to carry on a decent conversation as my IQ score, at the highest, has been only 143 with my more reliable scores from more reliable tests have ranged around the 130-139 range which I don't think is high enough to cause the problems I'm experiencing. I mean... I only got a 1400 on the SAT's, and in the top 1 percentile on the ASVAB's AFQT measure, and scored in the 134 IQ range as a child on the OLSAT(otis lennon scholastic ability test) with subsections scores of a verbal score of 125, and a nonverbal score of 141. So I don't believe it's too high to cause any serious problems in itself.

(On a side note: I believe my lower verbal score may be indicative of not having a word/book-enriched environment when I was younger, so my actual overall IQ(Defining it as "Problem solving ability", not just vocabulary knowledge as was one of the major subsections of the OLSAT) is just a little higher than that(Probably a 137 or 138).)

So anyhowz... I don't know if I have schizophrenia or not, or what exactly is going on. I've been thinking it could of been depression, aspergers, or schizoid personality disorder, or schizophrenia but I've effectively crossed out every single one of those due to other features.

It couldn't be depression because even depressed people can carry on a decent conversation. It couldn't be asperger's as I think I respond pretty well and am able to lie to gain an advantage and woman do respond quite well to me(which is not something that would happen at ALL for an Aspergers patient since aspergers patients have troubles with social cues therefore being completely socially awkward). It couldn't be schizoid personaly as I think I am able to express a wide variety of facial expressions which is something that a schizoid cannot do due to flat affectivity. And at this point, I doubt I do have COMPLETE schizophrenia at this point(it may develop later on as I'm only 18) since I'm not hallucinating or hearing voices or false sounds - But even though I don't have those key-features at this point in time, I believe my speech may be tangential, off-the-wall, and not completely coherent which may be a serious indicator of prodromal schizophrenia(the period right before the onset of full-blown schizophrenia).

So anyways... I'll leave you with this post to see if anyone can determine anything. Here's an email message I was about to send to my friend that I haven't spoken to in a LOOOOOONG time so that you can get a gist of how I talk/write in a casual setting so that you someone might pick up on speech abnomalies. :) Thank you.


MY LETTER TO A FRIEND

" Hey, sloth-like lethargic technologically adept-user with a penchant for anime and sci-fi genres.. JASON! How are you doing MON?(the midletter with a lower-case pronunciation was my intended affect :)

Here everything is so blase and academia is passing by kind of quickly, and it's been sort of just like existing in an ennui while passively contemplating existential issues, ideas, and philosophies while sporadically going into spurts of howework related activity which usually is about just finishing some assignment that for the most part seems somewhat redundant(It's clear the teachers believe it's for the good of mastering a certain skill, but I don't know.... It all seems too easy and most of the concepts can be grasped almost immediately. :/).

Hey the reason why I'm emailing you is because it's been such a longtime since I've emailed you. Tell me what's been going on and possibly what books you've recently decided to endeavour reading. Here, the most substantial reading pleasures have been the ever-expansive and equally ever-trivial site of everything2. Have you heard of it?

On a side note(like I never have enough of those): I was crawling around the web and I came across the dictionary meant for understanding everyday colloquilisms. Upon the tangent of thinking of Googling someone's name for "information seeking purposes" *cough*stalking*cough*... I wondered what treasures this dictionary could of held for the same purpose(searching someone's name). It turns out this certain online dictionary has your first name(but not mine) as one of the definitions. Check out it out at urbandictionary.com for the definiton. I think you might be somewhat shocked/surprised or ,more likely, expecting a definition such as that provided for your name. I'm surprised your name has so many popular uses that is used by the urban masses.

Anyways.. reply back soon


UPDATE: 15 people have viewed this but yet no one's responded, while there are at least 3 threads above this that have been replied since I've posted this to Meaning: People are actively ignoring this. Maybe I do have schizophrenia? Schizophrenics usually are ignored because they're "crazy" or incoherent.
Have yo visited any websites that have the diagnostic criteria for Schizophrenia? You haven't mentioned any symptoms that are those of Schizophrenia, so maybe it is something else. But only a psychiatrist is qualified to diagnose this.

Just to say, your statement that you must be schizophenic because schizophrenics are ignored is untrue. If this were the case, then every post in this forum by a scizophrenic person would have no replies and they do. Maybe people reading you post didn't have anything they felt they could say in reply to you. Don't take it as a personal insult when people don't reply. Try to think, people are here becausre they are suffering and probably looking for answers too, just like you and don't have any answers themselves.
Curiouskittie, I think you are way off point here. You stated absolutely no symptoms of Schizophrenia. The email you have written doesn't sound to me like a thought disorder. I see no evidence of one at all. The reason you have trouble with conversations sounds like more of social issues and maybe even anxiety. I don't understand how you came to the conclusion of Schizophrenia. Maybe you just pulled a disorder out of a hat to try to explain why people think you're "eccentric". But do you know what? Maybe that's just it. Maybe you are just eccentric. A lot of people don't like to socialize, and others have trouble dealing with social situations, period. I'd also like to state that I agree with cloudedmind on your statement that "you must be schizophenic because schizophrenics are ignored". I don't see how this is based on logic or truth. If you really would like to know what is going on, or what is actually happening out of your point of view, go see a licensed Psychiatrist.
First off - I'm a guy. :) There's no such thing as PMSing in this gender. Perhaps a male-version of it, maybe.

Ah... This is where my social "idiocy" or how you define "idiocy" becomes all too apparent. You state that I haven't stated any symptoms of schizophrenia, however if you look closely in my first post...

"my speech may be tangential, off-the-wall, and not completely coherent"

Which indeed is a sign of schizophrenia. If you do not know what that is, let me spell it out. I say something and then you reply. Usually in a normal case, a person replies with something that is at least somewhat of a logical continuation of what the second person said. Instead, with tangential thinking(which is a sign of schizophrenia), the person goes off on a tangent that is completely irrelevant to the point at hand or does not address the point at all. As you may see - I did not address the point that you had brought up("that I had not presented any symptoms of schizohprenia") even though originally I intended to with my second post.

Also consider the fact that I have a hard time carrying on a conversation past the second volley; I'm not saying that a sign OF schizophrenia, but if I did, then it would surely explain that.

Also consider the fact that despite my high IQ score of 130, I have clearly not shown the "intelligence" of someone of such a high score, but in your mind, rather idiocy which kind of agrees with other observations in real life. To other people that have no idea of my score, they do think of me as an idiot. They don't come out and overtly say it, but in the interactions with others and hearing myself speaking out in class, It is all so obvious. And a normal person with a IQ as high as mine wouldn't have these problems(which I believe stem off incoherent thinking[SEE: ABOVE]), so therefore their is something else at play. This was the intent of posting my IQ scores - I wasn't purposely trying to be a stuck-up intellectual prude(pseudointellectual) or just to seem "smart" which it appears you took it as suggested by your statement :) - "All I saw was you using larger words that your vocabulary could comprehend, telling us every damn IQ score you ever recieved"

Also, back in highschool, I was considered "really weird", and people would whisper that rather loudly while I was speaking to the teacher, and others around the campus said "you're crazy"(and that I talk never talked in a direct way with people, instead I beat around the bush....i.e. tangential) and "you're really weird" while at the same time being universally ignored by everyone. Now if that's not a blaring obvious sign of SOMETHING at play, than I don't know what it is. Having identified the key features that make people think that[see: tangential thinking, incoherency, and SLOWNESS], it aligns itself most closely with a schizo-range disorder - And knowing that the age of onset is usually 15-25, with a large cluster forming it at 18+, makes me think... hmmm... If all my observations are correct, then I may be soon going onto the onset.

Also considering at the time when I took the IQ test as a child, the proctor had suggested two things to my mother - "At these high IQ scores, the child would either grow to be bum or a stellar performer[in whatever field the child pursued]", and considering with my current ensemble(being unkempt) and my current self-beliefs, it seems I'm heading down the former road. And many bums are actually schizophrenic(well, that's definitely the "bum" stereotype in our society)

Also - I'm highly interested in religion and philosophical issues - It's said that many schizophrenics before the onset are interested in the same things(in fact it becomes an "obsessive focus"), so maybe.. just maybe... it is a sign. I'm not saying IT IS one, but the possibility is there, and in conjunction with all these other features, the possibility of it being a sign of schizophrenia jumps rather highly.

And also see now - Lo and behold - there is the symptom of schizophrenia that you had missed, and indeed working off that assumption that their were no stated symptoms, you have mislabeled me and instead produced a rather insulting posts. But even with that, I thank you, for it is an unbiased view from an independant observer - which surely is better than anything coming from this undoubtedly distorted perception.

^^^^hehe... more tangential thinking, indeed. :D
[QUOTE=curiouskittie]It's pretty much set in stone, so it can't be changed. Anyhow - Nobody looks at the profile anyways since it's pretty much very uninformative. I mean, the most it tells you is the person's gender and an age - How important is it to know that? :p[/QUOTE]


People are going to see it and think you're female and then you make snardy comments about not being female.
Hi, curious kittie. I haven't talked to you for awhile. I just wanted to comment on the whole "giftedness/mental illness" thing. I personally believe that there's a strong connection between high intelligence and mental illnesses. After all, it has been proven that certain disorders like Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder almost always occurs in people with above-average intelligence. It makes sense if you think about it because, in giftedness, brain circuitry is different than a "normal" person, and the same is true for the psychiatric disorders. I'm a firm believer that all of us with neuropsychiatric disorders are extremely gifted persons, and that our differences and eccentricities can be utilized to help us succeed in life, that is, if we don't allow the disorder to inhibit our creativity... :angel:
-GatsbyLuvr1920-
"Giftedness" correlating with mental illness sounds nice, doesn't it? But that's not the case. Mental Illness can affect any persons of any intelligence.

The profile is not in stone. Go to the User CP (at the top) and on the left, "edit profile" is one of choices. Click and be amazed.

The only reason I implied your "idiocy diagnosis" is because of two main variables. One, I was upset by your rude comments. And two, your low understanding of Schizophrenic symptoms and mental health. I, in no way, implied that you were socially idiotic or otherwise.

I'd also like to state that because other people tell you that you are weird, isn't substantial evidence that you have Schizophrenia, or a mental illness period. In grade school and above, if you wear the wrong pair of shoes they think you're weird.

"Considering with my current ensemble (being unkempt) and my current self-beliefs, it seems I'm heading down the former road." plus "Many bums are actually schizophrenic" equals toÖ"I have Schizophrenia"! Do you actually believe yourself when you write this? The only reason your tester said that you'll either be a "bum" or a "stellar performer" is with the way you apply yourself and what you do with your intelligence. High intelligence doesnít mean mental disorder. And bum doesnít mean schizophrenia.

You repeatedly said, "this MAYBE could be a symptom of Schizophrenia". Did you ever think, "this MAYBE could be eccentricities"? "Philosophy and religion MAYBE could just be a hobby"? "Disorganized speech and verbal problems MAYBE could be the result of trying to think too much while I speak" (which I do the same. Too many thoughts and nerves at once.)?

The point I am trying to make is not that you are the text book prodigy of "normal", but that from your description and arguments that you donít have strong evidences of Schizophrenia. Thatís all I am trying to say. You claim to have no visual/auditory/etc hallucinations. No delusions. No positive symptoms and very few negative symptoms. Those are the main factors of Schizophrenia. You have no main factors of Schizophrenia. Which means you have no diagnosis of schizophrenia.

I don't understand why you are so bent over having this disease. With every statement I make saying that you have no signs or symptoms, you pull out a small spot and milk it for all it is worth. Defending your thesis, even with little or no evidence.

I wouldn't be surprised if you found some doctor out there who would put on a label of "Premorbid Schizophrenia" because "there's the smallest chance that you could one day go into full blown psychosis". But if that is the case, I can name thirty other people I know who can fit into the same diagnosis. There is no way to see if you "someday" could have Schizophrenia.

Do you really want help or do you want to convince yourself and others that you are Schizophrenic? If you want help and advice, Iíll be more than willingly to tell you everything I believe and know. But otherwise, Iím not going to play your games because it's a lost cause. Iím not going to fight you for a final diagnosis because neither you or I can do that. I'd have to pull out cloudedmindís post and agree. If you want a diagnosis then see a licensed professional. There are ways to get one with the smallest financial ability, and are plenty of qualified professionals either in or around your area.

I, and yes, you, were both throwing forth insults. You here are no victim when I retaliated with my insults. And I hold no claim of being victimized either. I am assuming that you came here for help and advice, and that is what you received. It is not mine nor anyone elseís fault if you happen to disagree. And Iím sure you can understand that.

Concluding, if you want help, ask for it. We can only answer with our best abilities and truth. You asked, we stated. If you disagree, see a Psychological Diagnostition.
Hi i'm new here and don't mean to hijack

first of all you can go to your left hand panel (I think!) and just hit edit profile. That should allow you to change your gender status :) If you can't do this, email one of the mods and let them know. That usually works

Okay. the reason a newbie is accessing a post like this... I was dx sz about seven years ago, okay? And it was the crappiest time of my life. I'd been enlightened and found my way to truths beyond the scope or normal capabilities. Then to be told repeatedly that it was nothing more than a psychotic illness and "here, take these psychotropics" was shattering. I lost everything, and I mean everything. friends, support, self esteem, a chance at a normal life. Everything that I deserved to have as a free thinking human being was ripped out fromunder me. I was too shattered to take my rite of passage into adulthood and for most of these last seven years was spent in and out of involuntary hospitalization, being force fed drug after drug that caused me to get really sick. (Dizzy, totally detatched from myself most of the time, vomiting constantly, muscle spasms.. ) It took five different drug experiments before I found one (Seroquel) that was able towork for me. But I've lost myself forever. My memory is shot, my thoughts suck, I still hear voices and most of them scream all night long so I can't sleep.

Anyhow, I digress and it's for another time, I suppose.My point is, I wasn't just socially withdrawn and wanting help. In fact, help was the last thing I wanted. I felt enlightened, as I've said before. I controlled the weather and do you know how amazing is to see the sun comeup and know you're responsible?? Of course, this wasnt the only side effect of my illness but I'mjust giving you an idea of how i was feeling and what I was thinking. I was finally diagnosed and treated for undifferentiated schizophrenia (mostly paranoid and some hebephrenic tendencies... apparently)

Why do you want everyone to tell you that you've got this crappy, horrible, (insert veiled profanity here) illness?????? (because it seems you won't be happy until someone says you do) Why do you want to think you have this?? I mean, really! Do you know what your life will become if you are diagnosed sz? If you do have a psychotic illness, enjoy your relative normality (which I can see only judging from your posts thus far) while you can!! If everyone is telling you that it doesn't seem like sz, yes, still see a diagnostic professional, but I'd be sobbing and thanking god I'd escaped that trainwreck. because that's what sz has been to me. A total, shattering trainwreck.

Yes. Many schizophrenics are intelligent. But many are also.... um... not so very intelligent. I just wanted to say that. Intelligence isn't a criteria for psychosis.

I would definitely see someone if I were you. But not because I think you're sz. Because I think you'd benefit in getting help to find yourself, to find what makes you special and important and what you can do about it. To find out what's eating you (because, pardon me, but itseems that something is eating you) Maybe google personality disorders. I'm no doctor but it seems that peoploe here can give their thoughts and that's mine. I think you're just missing something in your life but it's not too late to get it back. :angel:

peace
pea
[QUOTE=SuchGreatHeight]"Giftedness" correlating with mental illness sounds nice, doesn't it? But that's not the case. Mental Illness can affect any persons of any intelligence.

The profile is not in stone. Go to the User CP (at the top) and on the left, "edit profile" is one of choices. Click and be amazed.

The only reason I implied your "idiocy diagnosis" is because of two main variables. One, I was upset by your rude comments. And two, your low understanding of Schizophrenic symptoms and mental health. I, in no way, implied that you were socially idiotic or otherwise.

I'd also like to state that because other people tell you that you are weird, isn't substantial evidence that you have Schizophrenia, or a mental illness period. In grade school and above, if you wear the wrong pair of shoes they think you're weird.

"Considering with my current ensemble (being unkempt) and my current self-beliefs, it seems I'm heading down the former road." plus "Many bums are actually schizophrenic" equals toÖ"I have Schizophrenia"! Do you actually believe yourself when you write this? The only reason your tester said that you'll either be a "bum" or a "stellar performer" is with the way you apply yourself and what you do with your intelligence. High intelligence doesnít mean mental disorder. And bum doesnít mean schizophrenia.

You repeatedly said, "this MAYBE could be a symptom of Schizophrenia". Did you ever think, "this MAYBE could be eccentricities"? "Philosophy and religion MAYBE could just be a hobby"? "Disorganized speech and verbal problems MAYBE could be the result of trying to think too much while I speak" (which I do the same. Too many thoughts and nerves at once.)?

The point I am trying to make is not that you are the text book prodigy of "normal", but that from your description and arguments that you donít have strong evidences of Schizophrenia. Thatís all I am trying to say. You claim to have no visual/auditory/etc hallucinations. No delusions. No positive symptoms and very few negative symptoms. Those are the main factors of Schizophrenia. You have no main factors of Schizophrenia. Which means you have no diagnosis of schizophrenia.

I don't understand why you are so bent over having this disease. With every statement I make saying that you have no signs or symptoms, you pull out a small spot and milk it for all it is worth. Defending your thesis, even with little or no evidence.

I wouldn't be surprised if you found some doctor out there who would put on a label of "Premorbid Schizophrenia" because "there's the smallest chance that you could one day go into full blown psychosis". But if that is the case, I can name thirty other people I know who can fit into the same diagnosis. There is no way to see if you "someday" could have Schizophrenia.

Do you really want help or do you want to convince yourself and others that you are Schizophrenic? If you want help and advice, Iíll be more than willingly to tell you everything I believe and know. But otherwise, Iím not going to play your games because it's a lost cause. Iím not going to fight you for a final diagnosis because neither you or I can do that. I'd have to pull out cloudedmindís post and agree. If you want a diagnosis then see a licensed professional. There are ways to get one with the smallest financial ability, and are plenty of qualified professionals either in or around your area.

I, and yes, you, were both throwing forth insults. You here are no victim when I retaliated with my insults. And I hold no claim of being victimized either. I am assuming that you came here for help and advice, and that is what you received. It is not mine nor anyone elseís fault if you happen to disagree. And Iím sure you can understand that.

Concluding, if you want help, ask for it. We can only answer with our best abilities and truth. You asked, we stated. If you disagree, see a Psychological Diagnostition.[/QUOTE]


Thank you thank you. I'll take your wonderful advice, and follow it most obediantely. :)

On the subject of giftedness - You have said that their is no connection between giftedness and mental illness however I think you may be missing the bigger picture with the evidence you presented. While yes, their may be tons of mentally ill people who are not above average intelligence(and in fact - many are below average than what you would expect according to correlation), that doesn't mean that the mental illness rate is lower within the gifted population. From studies that I've read whilst browsing online, the incidence of mental illness among highly gifted students is higher than that compared to the average population. But there's the caveat - Highly gifted - which actually makes up less than .2% of the population and I am no way apart of the highly gifted. So there's going to be several notable geniuses that have mental illness(John Nash to be one) that's going to make it appear there is a connection between mental illness and mental ability - but the truth is... for the majority, their's a negative correlation between intelligence and mental illness meaning the more intelligent a random person is, the less likely he/she will develop a mental illness.

Now for what gatsbylurver stated - I think that Most obsessive compulsive's are above average intelligence, but I don't think that most highly intelligent people are obsessive compulsive. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's where you might be getting confused.

Anyhow - Thanks for the posts everyone - it's been great reading your posts and all those who wrote life stories. Pitch forth anything else you have to say!

[Oh - and autism is unlikely I think..]
Oh, John Nash. Had to respond. "A Beautiful Mind" is the only thing besides "Aviator" that I can relate to on really bad days...I love the part when he's looking at the window art and says, "I can't see it! I can't fail! This is all that I am!" Sooo me! And my all-time favorite part is when he says to Alicia, "You are exceptionally odd," and after her response of, "You must be very popular with all the girls," he says, "A pair of odd ducks, then." That just makes me cry because it reminds me of myself- I think it's so sweet that two people who are eccentric and struggle to fit in with society find another like them. I know I'm going to end up with some nerdy guy, probably with some sort of mental problem; it's pretty much inevitable. So, when I feel that there isn't anyone out there who understands my quirks and problems, watching this scene gives me hope... :angel: "If we all go for the blonde, we block each other, and not a single one of us is gonna get her, so then we go for her friends, but they will all give us the cold shoulder because no one likes to be second choice. But what if no one goes for the blonde? That way, we don't get in each other's way, and we don't insult the other girls. That's the only way we win...Governing dynamics, gentlemen. Adam Smith was wrong..." ;)
-GatsbyLuvr1920-
Well here's the thing, right? I agree. a lot of intelligent people may very well have a higher chance of developing a mental illness?? But this isn't always indicative of brain illness, which is what sz is.

This is my dime store shrink take on everything... Highly intelligent kids tend to be very curious, thoughtful, insightful, and creative. This can cause isolation with their peers (probably alphamaleism or something) These intelligent, sensitive kids then go on to junior high where you throw a heafty dose of hormones in the mix. This is the place and time where the intelligent kids are now starting to see what REAL torment can be like. Finally by high school, they get so damn sick of it, that one of two things usually happens (In my observations, anyway) Fight or Flight. They either hide and cry or they lash out. Or worse, they come to school one day with a loaded shotgun..

Regardless, this fight or flight over time (because theis is the reaction to danger, right??) can be a real stress on the brain, the mind and the soul. Mental illness can sometimes follow this as the poor kid's brain has been in fight or flight mode (perception of danger> stressors on the brain > stress - sleep disruption > can't deal anymore) for so damn long that he/she just cracks under the pressure. This can cause suicidal thoughts, depression, isolation and anger which can lead to personality disorders, OCD behaviour.. what have you. This is a kind of environmental reaction to stress. This can often cause mental illness. I'll bet.

But a brain sickness is kind of a different thing. I mean, yeah. Your environment can play a role in whether or not a dormant gene comes to the surface. High levels of stress, taking drugs, Especially psychedelics (which I swear to god is what went on with me) social withdrawl, etc. But this is an indirect cause, a correlation between genes and what your environment does to those genes. I agree there are many very intelligent psychotic people. But usually, even if they can showcase their intelligence to any degree, they're usually too shattered by the time the illness has taken flight to do much about actualizing their potential. That's all I meant. Also, and again, thsi is just from experience. But the psych ward is full of psychotic people. And there aren't many woh I would call gifted. I've met a couple. But for the most part, it's a false truth because psychosis does cause heightened awareness of one's surroundings, which can induce high levels of creativity... this isn't always a sign of intelligence, just a unique perspective of the world. Although it can also be a sign of intelligence. I guess what I'm saying is that psychosis can hide intelligence a lot of the time... Which doesn't prove my point but then, I didn't really have apoint to being wiht. Just an interesting, somewhat academic take on things. (I have no previous training in psychology or anything like that. but I do have a science background as well as a creative background and when you do, you tend to see cause and effect relationships everywhere you go)

Whew! I'm sorry I jumped the gun with you, curiouskitty (I love your name, btw) I'm very defensive of myself and my situation and I think that's part of what can make the world a terrible place sometimes. I think you should find some help (Not to offend you) but just that I think, whatever is going on with you and I don't know you so I can't really say... but whatever it is, you seem to be suffering some scary symptomsof something. And left untreated, you might fall into a dark chasm, which would be totally unfair because you seem to have a lot to offfer.

I like the academic turn this discussion has taken.

peace
pea
Hey you didn't offend me! :) I think that's amazing! And you know something? I think we human beings have a way of sensing weather changes. Some people say their arthritis kicks in, that they get irritable, etc.

Animals also feel changes in weather. And they know it. Very slight air pressure changes and we perceive them too, though not always consciously because we're so busy being human (which is a really crazyjob!) and don't always understand our instinctive responses. oR something.

I think we humans feel these slight changes in our environment but most of us don't really respond to it.. or we do, but we don't realize that it's what we're actually responding to. And you just are more in tune with your environment and can realize what's going on. That's a very special skill!! You must be very in tune with what goes on around you. I'd say you're pretty smart actually :)

peace
pea
About the weather storm ability - I think that you very well could of actually detected the storm and "had the ability"(Though it's not fool-proof). Many animals have the same ability, and humans aren't too far removed from many of the animals that have that ability on the evolutionary tree. On a thought, have you heard of Howard Gardner's Multiple intelligences - He proposes that their are many areas in which a person can be smart, and one of the classifications he proposed later on in his career is "Natural intelligence" or being aware of nature and your natural environment(plant and animal life). So you probably are "smart" in the "nature intelligence category".

To defend myself against many of the posts that saw previously to this - I am not purposely trying to convince everybody that I have schizophrenia. I was mainly trying to point out evidence and other features that I thought may of been relevant that some users had missed which, in my opinion, may of been important in forming a valid opinion. SuchGreatHeights - Thank you for your post. I have read it, and I wasn't purposely trying to ruffle your feathers but rather just point out certain things(thought I may of talked in a way that was upset - in which case I apologise). I understand where you're coming from and will seek out professional attention when the opportunity presents itself. ALSO in note to your posts: Yes, I have considered those possibilities. I think a perceptive person may of understood that I had considered those possibilities if they had entirely read my post, but alas - that didn't obviously didn't get through(Possibly bad communication on my part). I believe I said something along the lines that "yes, I recognize that these symptoms are not nessecarly indicative of schizophrenia when looked at individually and could be indicative of something else, but it seems unlikely that all these certain features would be grouped together in one person without a singular cause that would cause all these different things. Yes, a person could just possibly be eccentric and that could explain "eccentricities", and yes a person could just be a loner and that could explain "social difficulties", but to have all those things present without a single underlying cause seems unlikely. This single cause I suspect may be a sort of mental disorder, such as schizophrenia - or maybe it could just be something like a social anxiety in combination with advanced cognitive abilities. NOTE: I'm not looking JUST for a label, but just for a valid explanation.

Anyhow, thank for your suggestions on possible other diagnosis's but I doubt I have aspergers for the following reasons. Note - I'm not doing this in anyway to prove that I must have some "schizophrenia" by default of not having everything else or just certain disorders, but rather showing that that conclusion is highly doubtful.

1. The asperger's disorder is classified as a nonverbal learning disabilty. Symptoms typically include only being to think logically and in steps, and missing "the bigger picture". Likewise this shows on certain abilities test. Being a nonverbal disability, an asperger's "nonverbal reasoning" score is usually pretty low and definitely lower than their verbal reasoning score(which means they talk a lot better and think a lot more logically, then how they are able to "picture" things and get the full picture of how something works). Well, My nonverbal reasoning score was about 16 points higher than my verbal reasoning score when I took the OLSAT test at 11.8 years old. That is in stark contrast to a typical asperger's individual whose verbal score is almost always higher than the nonverbal score.(and in fact - an asperger's nonverbal score is very often below average, and if not below average - then it virtually never exceeds normal levels - but mine was near-genius levels.)

2. Aspergers usually start speaking at a young age and are usually precocious. The vocabulary is typically advanced for an asperger's person and an asperger person's speech is usually quite voluminous at an early age. That is in very different picture from my own speech development. I was a bit verbally-delayed and in fact I was suspected to have a sort of speech disorder. This meant I didn't speak in class when everybody else could, and I was unusually quiet and didn't really have the ability to talk when almost everyone else did.(This was actually very frustrating since my ability to think was well-developed, however that was hindered by the fact it was unusually difficult to communicate my thoughts. Throughout my development, the difficulty in talking to others accumulated over the years and I practically resigned to keeping to myself. Consequently,(I suspect) my ability to relate to others dropped drastically and I can't as easily communicate as the average person my age. This infact undoubtely contributes to my appearance of "stupidity".). Consider the fact that my verbal reasoning score was much less than my nonverbal reasoning score, and you have the whole conflicting feature where verbal ability should be the highest ability.

And asperger's usually talk in a "rote" way or remember key phrases and use them in speech. Their is hardly any novelty to what an apserger's person says. I believe that my speech does not actually follow strict speech patterns that would follow someone with aspergers. While yes, I do think that my speech patterns may be idiosyncratic, I don't think that idiosyncracy could be explained by an autism-range disorder where speech is definitely not just following some rigid "rote" formula. At least looking at my writing, I don't see that.

What could explain my difficulties - the INTP lifestyle along with giftedness, and possible social anxiety having developed since childhood due to speech and likewise social difficulties.

But in light of these conflicting features of aspergers, I'll outline some possibilities that support that conclusion. Number 1, social awkwardness. Number 2, extreme social difficulties and as my sister said "social blindness". Number 3, almost constantly being misunderstood and almost always misunderstanding what others mean. These two in combination often result in extreme frustration thus leading to complete withdrawal from even trying to talk with others. Number 4, Idiosyncratic speech(though argued against as lead to above). Number 5, almost always getting an unexpected responses from people. When I try to help people out with something, I somewhere along the lines end up insulting people when I didn't quite mean to or just being "mean" even though I don't purposely try to insult anyone. Also, people often seem to take what I say in a very different way than what I mean it. An example of this was in calculus class(this just happened very recently). The teacher was explaining odd functions and stuff, and I asked how "How do you know the function is odd?"... and she referenced to "well, you should of learned trignometric identities back in trig class" making it seemed I DIDN'T know something that should of been learned in a class way before calculus, making it seem like I was "stupid".(When she explained this should of been learned in a very early class way before calculus implying I was 'stupid' and feeling that I couldn't adequately defend myself I simply desisted.) Instead, what I meant was "how do you know it's like that?" but it seemed she, nor the class, took it that way - instead they took it as if I hadn't learned about it and didn't know trig identities[when I did] and seemed completely idiotic in these regards.

Anyhows that's about it.

And gatsbylurver - are you ok? I understand that you may have OCD and have eccentricities, but are you sure that you have aspergers? o_0' - It just seems strange that you say that when you can often talk and communicate with others on the forums very well, and aspergers individuals typically can't. Another feature missing from aspergers is sympathising, and likewise empathy. You seem to be empathetic as indicated by people who "missed you" on the OCD forums and clearly valued you. This evidently shows that you are empathetic, which is the key ingredient nessecary to forming "relationships" and getting people to like you(as in a "friend" or "helping" type of way) as it allows you to relate with others. Because OCD forumer's value you, I think that you empathetic, and since you seem to communicate that empathy very well - you have people on the OCD forum who value you, and since aspergers individuals have a hard time expressing empathy - I seriously doubt that you have aspergers. I could be wrong though..... Have you seen a therapist or a diagnostician about it?

(Took about an hour - 2 hours to write(probably more like an little under an hour) - I typically write and talk slowly... Much slower than I did when I was young)
First, looking for a label can be a major breakthrough in dealing with an illness. It has a name, therefore you now have some degree of control. When you know what to call it, you're knowing your enemy :) Though I must say, my attitude toward dealing with my diagnosis, even accepting it, came with time and patience and a lot of paradigm shifts in my life. Becoming schizophrenic (and we think it was around my late teens.. early for a girl) was a paradigm shift it and of itself, yes as there was an enlightenment issue to deal with. The fact that I felt, understood and accepted this feeling of enlightenment. But I accepted this as something that is inate in us all and that Id just brought it to the surface and was able to see what I couldn't before. Like you hear a constant noise all your life which is so constant, it becomes a kind of silence but when you actually stop and really listen, you realize it's telling you the Grand Unified Theory, The meaning of LIfe and the origins of all that ever was and shall be. It exists in silence. A sound so constanat, it ceases to have any sound of it's own to our ears. That's a pretty heavy load for a teenager. Fortunately, my onset was insidious and though it caused a lot of fear and frustration in my family (read: What is WITH our child?? and of course my mother thought I was on drugs) it wasn't an overnight skew so I was probably able to deal with the changes it brought about more effectively.

BEing diagnosed is a different paradigm shift alltogether. After you've seen the proverbial mountaintop, being told it doesn't exist is shattering. I'd found God, the hub of all belief, religion, spirit, science, physics (my major in university) and philosophy. Id' found my way there, I'd found absolute beautitude. And to be told it was all just a delusion coupled with hallucinations? "You are very sick. YOu have a serious psychotic illness" It destroyed me. I had been touched by the profound. Call it what you will. But, as I say, accepting the diagnosis, or realizing you're stuck with it, is a major paradigm shift because often, the sz behaves like a friend. It tells you that you're powerful. That you're special. That you're in the center of something very importat. The voices tell you this. The visions are unlike anything I could ever describe using humble language. Colours that don't exist in a normal spectrum. A kind of blue that hasn't yet been discovered. A way of seeing things that makes it all so clear and simple. Like it had been there all along, right in front of you and in searching so hard for a profound answer, you overlook the simple, complete truth that's right in front of you this whole time.

Mind you, is not all like this you see. There was also a lot of fear. I was afraid I became an orange, that someone would peel me. I would be up for nights on end without sleep because the Voices would scream and bang on weird pianos and talk instrange languages and not allow me to rest. My computer was linked to me. That I was nothing more than software built as an AI and that soon, I'd be reintegrated into the system. A little death, no?

That's interesting that aspergers talk young! Although I'm not an aspergers patient,I spoke at nine months, according to my mother. But I was always very wordy, though shy. Which is infinitely frustrating. I'm dead middle right and left brain (and also ambidextrous) I don't have aspergers but I share some common traits with them. I used to believe, as a child, that nothing was real, that the world was created for me alone and that I was actually just a string of synapses and signals. Someone would send a signal to my motherboard, I'd see a sunrise or hear a friend or pet my cat or eat my dinner. IT was a lonely feeling but also a powerful curiosity. I thought all i experienced was just a result of mybrain being tickled by some kind of (pardon the seussism) poke-o-mo-thalo-mo-scope :) If you will. I like seussisms.

Man, shut up pea! I have no point here. I just find this thread... interesting. Gaining some insight for sure. You can really read between the lines, as many of you, I'm sure do with me. It's part of the fun of being human and interacting. And message boards are great ways tointeract for us "social boobs" as I like to call myself because it's... well.. it's like talking in installments. You can stop, think, go back, erase. You don't get interrupted and you can get an entire thought out without being cut off. If you forget your train of thought (personally, my Dr Moriarty :)) you can always go back and figure out what that train was. Online is kind of my social life outside my house which is too small to accomodate my needs as a wider scope human being.

I'll write more but let me consider some things that have been itching the back of my mind in regards to all this. CuriousKittie, you remind me of one of my best friends "Kaylee", (not her real name, of course) who has obsessive compulsive disorder. I'm not saying that's you because i'm no doctor but since you're asking :) *shrug* In fact, I'd guarantee it but again... no doctor.

I've written volumes of irrelevant mishmash. Mostly because I'm new, but also because things you say trigger ideas, which trigger other ideas, which then set a whole series of thoughts off and then ideas come fast and its' like the electricity turns on. And each inch of this tired old brain has a brain like that. :)

peace
pea
[QUOTE=curiouskittie]

1. The asperger's disorder is classified as a nonverbal learning disabilty. Symptoms typically include only being to think logically and in steps, and missing "the bigger picture". Likewise this shows on certain abilities test. Being a nonverbal disability, an asperger's "nonverbal reasoning" score is usually pretty low and definitely lower than their verbal reasoning score(which means they talk a lot better and think a lot more logically, then how they are able to "picture" things and get the full picture of how something works). Well, My nonverbal reasoning score was about 16 points higher than my verbal reasoning score when I took the OLSAT test at 11.8 years old. That is in stark contrast to a typical asperger's individual whose verbal score is almost always higher than the nonverbal score.(and in fact - an asperger's nonverbal score is very often below average, and if not below average - then it virtually never exceeds normal levels - but mine was near-genius levels.)

2. Aspergers usually start speaking at a young age and are usually precocious. The vocabulary is typically advanced for an asperger's person and an asperger person's speech is usually quite voluminous at an early age. That is in very different picture from my own speech development. I was a bit verbally-delayed and in fact I was suspected to have a sort of speech disorder. This meant I didn't speak in class when everybody else could, and I was unusually quiet and didn't really have the ability to talk when almost everyone else did.(This was actually very frustrating since my ability to think was well-developed, however that was hindered by the fact it was unusually difficult to communicate my thoughts. Throughout my development, the difficulty in talking to others accumulated over the years and I practically resigned to keeping to myself. Consequently,(I suspect) my ability to relate to others dropped drastically and I can't as easily communicate as the average person my age. This infact undoubtely contributes to my appearance of "stupidity".). Consider the fact that my verbal reasoning score was much less than my nonverbal reasoning score, and you have the whole conflicting feature where verbal ability should be the highest ability.

And asperger's usually talk in a "rote" way or remember key phrases and use them in speech. Their is hardly any novelty to what an apserger's person says. I believe that my speech does not actually follow strict speech patterns that would follow someone with aspergers. While yes, I do think that my speech patterns may be idiosyncratic, I don't think that idiosyncracy could be explained by an autism-range disorder where speech is definitely not just following some rigid "rote" formula. At least looking at my writing, I don't see that.

And gatsbylurver - are you ok? I understand that you may have OCD and have eccentricities, but are you sure that you have aspergers? o_0' - It just seems strange that you say that when you can often talk and communicate with others on the forums very well, and aspergers individuals typically can't. Another feature missing from aspergers is sympathising, and likewise empathy. You seem to be empathetic as indicated by people who "missed you" on the OCD forums and clearly valued you. This evidently shows that you are empathetic, which is the key ingredient nessecary to forming "relationships" and getting people to like you(as in a "friend" or "helping" type of way) as it allows you to relate with others. Because OCD forumer's value you, I think that you empathetic, and since you seem to communicate that empathy very well - you have people on the OCD forum who value you, and since aspergers individuals have a hard time expressing empathy - I seriously doubt that you have aspergers. I could be wrong though..... Have you seen a therapist or a diagnostician about it?
QUOTE]
Hey, curiouskittie. Everything that you listed, numbers 1-3, are things I do, especially the precocious verbosity, rote memorization, and nonverbal learning disabilities. (I've always struggled with math and abstractions.) I know that I don't have full-blown Asperger's like I have full-blown OCD, but my therapist was actually the one who brought up the topic once again. We were talking, and she was describing several Asperger's teens she knows, and everything was me. I brought up the whole empathy/talkativeness thing, and she said that in the people she knows, the obsessive fixations are the main symptom. God knows I have obsessive fixations! ;) I believe that my high amount of empathy is due to the OCD- never wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, being afraid that God will punish me for a bad thought, etc., but concerning the communication issue, you've never seen me try to connect with people who I don't have a connection with! lol! :D I have always been "different" and isolated from my peers, ever since I was a young child. I have few friends here at my college, and this is due to the fact that I can't find anyone who feels the same way I do. I connect far more with the professors, who are my good friends, because they are as passionate about learning as I am. It's difficult for me to make anything more than mere acquaintances when all most kids care about is drinking, partying, and acting silly. They're here simply to get their diploma. Sure they study and make good grades, but they just go through the motions. Understandably, for someone like me, whose eyes literally light up at the mention of American history, chemistry, and anatomy, I can't relate to them; I spend most of my time alone, which is the way I like it. I hate being around people and I need my space. Classic Asperger's-ness. I'm not one of these people who feels "lonely" because they have few friends (all of my friends were made in high school, where everyone was a nerd like me)- I honestly couldn't care less. The only time it's hard is when nobody understands how I feel and I feel ostracized at times when it's painfully obvious that I'm very different, but most of the time, I embrace my eccentricities. However, who wouldn't feel isolated when they are the only ones who gets excited over going to chem class while the rest are sitting there bored to tears. For further evidence, my chem professor, who I'm pretty close with, and is one of about two people here who I can connect with, has a ten-year-old daughter with Asperger's, and when I was unable to get him at first for this semester (thank God I did), and I had a breakdown because I needed sameness and he's the only thing that makes my day enjoyable, my mom called him and told him about my OCD, prompting him to tell her about his daughter. He actually told my mother that "he sees a lot of [me] in [his] daughter". This cracked me up because I had never told him anything about my disorders, so it must be pretty damn obvious that I'm an obsessive-compulsive with Asperger's traits! I could go on and on as to why I'm pretty much positive that I have Asperger's, but I have to go get a shower, something I do only out of necessity- one of my many sensory issues is an abhorrance of being wet... I've been toying with the idea almost as long as I toyed with the possibility of me having OCD. I turned out to be right on that account and I know I'm right on this one, too. I go to my CBT on Thursday, where my therapist and I are trying to untangle my Asperger's obsessions and compulsions from my OCD. Talk to you soon! :angel:
-GatsbyLuvr1920-
Ok - That sounds like a good plan and I found the part about your professor particularly hilarious. Haha... Well, at least you know that you have asperger's-like "traits" just from the grand scope of things and everything put together. I hope that it gets sorted out at your CBT exam. Personally, I think that you maybe an extremely verbal person(and since you're ability to think and work with words is so more advance then the normal person you're age - you're practically excluded on that fact alone) with difficulty in abstraction and mathematical reasoning with a hint of introvertedness; Ok probably not just an ordinary hint: More like a super-strong hint.

Now I'm sure you've heard of the types who are extremely verbal but often have a hardtime understanding something or more abstract ideas or abstract education realms like math.(and god, I used to abhor these type of people because they could talk their way around anything and making it sound like they were smart and knew what they were doing(i.e convincing), but often didn't) I suspect that you maybe this way. And also introvertedness - Have you heard of it? It's basically just preferring to being alone comparison to socializing with others - which it seems that you are this way. Also another trait of an introvert is keeping only a very few amount of friends and preferring one-on-one contact with others, in contrast to being an extrovert who has lots of friends, and likes to party with others, and finds hanging around with many others people(often in large groups) to be particularly energizing, rather than how an introvert would find it "draining".

In light of the fact of being an extremely verbal and english-oriented person(as evidenced in your posts) and that you often associate with the more educationally-advanced individuals(as you say - Nerds in high school and you find your professors to be your true peers) because they are probably the only ones who can completely understand you and likewise be able to relate with you, I'd say your probably an individual with advanced linguistic ability with introverted traits whom likes to seriously study. There is nothing wrong with that - it's probably just the hallmarker of a nerd, which is not meant in derrogatory way. (And are you sure that your ability to abstract is limited? I can't really immediately determine that from reading your posts. o_0 - but you say you immensely enjoy chemistry(amongst other subjects)? That along with anyother science related field requires the ability to abstract concepts.)

[And did you read the asperger's section of the book "The misdiagnosis of the gifted child", and looked at the conflicting features and reviewed it with other people to form a valid opinion? That may be eye-opening...]

But it certainly does seem the possibility of aspergers exists. Meh - report back after you see the professional at the appointment!
Hey, curiouskittie! I just re-read the Asperger's section in the "Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children" book, and once again, I don't fit the description for the true disorder, but, as they say, have some of the "increasing degrees of characteristic behaviors that end up with an impairment that is then called Asperger's Disorder." Probably the best description of me comes from the following: "Consider a third-grade gifted child who is serious and passionate about number puzzles and anagrams and who loves the precision of their patterns. In her spare time, she reads and corresponds with others on the Internet about her passion (much like I do here on the mental illness boards). Her age peers do not understand her zeal, and the gifted child gets upset because the other third-grade children seem so immature. Does this gifted child lack empathy? No, it is really more a lack of tolerance. Bright children may have little tolerance for others who do not share their rapid mental processes. When this child attends a meeting of the high school math club, it is clear that she has normal social interatctions with her peers there, demonstrating empathy, reciprocity, and emotionality." However, to further complicate things, I've already printed out articles upon articles about Asperger's, in preparation for my CBT session (and just because I'm interested- I actually did the research months ago; just printed it days ago... :D ), and there's striking similarities, experiences that I don't think are mere "giftedness". And, of course, there's the whole question about the rituals- as one person said, who, like me, had OCD and a strong suspicion of Asperger's, "I have been aware for some time that my 'obsessions' clearly fall into two categories or perhapes even three. I have the definite OCD-type 'negative' obsessions centered around hygiene and strange 'superstition', then there are 'positive' obsessions such as hobbies and subjects of interest- programming since I was six, being able to identify any ZX Spectrum just from the sound of the tape loader, etc." I can't really give a better explanation for what I suffer from, down to being able to recognize minute sounds...I think, really, what my therapist wants to do is to separate out what could be Asperger's rituals and my OCD compulsions, to further my treatment. She has a friend who specializes in Asperger's, and she was going to talk to her this past week. The big question for my therapy is really, "what consitutes my true OCD symptoms and those sensory rituals that I do in times of extreme stress, which make me feel better and able to cope?" But, once again, just like I did with the OCD for years and years, this research has literally become obsessive and compulsive: I must "prove" to myself whether I have it or not, re-hashing the material over and over, fearing that I'm "making up" symptoms and "over-diagnosing" myself. I'm really looking forward to going to my CBT this week; I have never discussed my Asperger's-like traits so openly with a therapist. It's as if I have finally fully discovered a whole important part of myself, a part that I want to further explore and analyze- is it eccentricity or pathology? Either way, it DOES interfere with my life, whatever it is, and should be treated as such. I'm honored, by the way, that you think that my handle on the English language is far advanced from my age group. That's a real compliment. I'm looking forward to debating this with you further, and with anyone else who has any ideas. Oh, and speaking of finding my chemistry professor "hilarious", you don't know the half of it! He's such a nerd, and so random, that he's automatically funny, even though he doesn't try to be, or even realize that he is. What I get a huge kick out of is his clearly excessive use of the phrase "in terms of". Since December 5, I've been keeping a daily tally each time I have class (obviously, compulsive right there! lol), and it's just mindboggling. Yesterday, he broke the record: 119 times in two hours... ;) I'll talk to you soon. :angel:
-GatsbyLuvr1920-
[QUOTE=curiouskittie]Thank you thank you. I'll take your wonderful advice, and follow it most obediantely. :)

On the subject of giftedness - You have said that their is no connection between giftedness and mental illness however I think you may be missing the bigger picture with the evidence you presented. While yes, their may be tons of mentally ill people who are not above average intelligence(and in fact - many are below average than what you would expect according to correlation), that doesn't mean that the mental illness rate is lower within the gifted population. From studies that I've read whilst browsing online, the incidence of mental illness among highly gifted students is higher than that compared to the average population. But there's the caveat - Highly gifted - which actually makes up less than .2% of the population and I am no way apart of the highly gifted. So there's going to be several notable geniuses that have mental illness(John Nash to be one) that's going to make it appear there is a connection between mental illness and mental ability - but the truth is... for the majority, their's a negative correlation between intelligence and mental illness meaning the more intelligent a random person is, the less likely he/she will develop a mental illness.

Now for what gatsbylurver stated - I think that Most obsessive compulsive's are above average intelligence, but I don't think that most highly intelligent people are obsessive compulsive. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's where you might be getting confused.

Anyhow - Thanks for the posts everyone - it's been great reading your posts and all those who wrote life stories. Pitch forth anything else you have to say!

[Oh - and autism is unlikely I think..][/QUOTE]

I never stated that mental illness is lower in higher intelligence. I said that mental illness can affect any person of any intelligence. Which is completely true.
Whats this got ot do with schizophrenia? Unless you think your friend has too?
Ok. Since you're asking, I'll see how many ways I can connect this to schizophrenia.

Social difficulties and social blindness is often a major feature in schizophrenics. I.E., this is the part where social behaviors for schizophrenics isn't normal and reactions are abnormal. An extreme example of this is when a schizophrenic is happy or laughing at something that would normally be devesatating.. like someone in the family dying.

To a less extreme degree, I was socially "blind" to how this could make my room-mate upset. If I had known it would make him upset, I wouldn't of told him that but I did. I don't think he's an abnormal person(reacts abnormally) since he's friends with and gets along well with many of the people on the dorm's floor just fine, so I think his response was quite normal - and hence what I did was wrong in someway, however I don't understand how.

Number 2 - if you still cannot see how this previous post has anything to do with schizoprhenia and my explanation wasn't reasonable or coherent, you could just see that was a fine example of tangential thinking as in what I say doesn't have any or little relevance to the topic at hand(which would be schizophrenia), thus a demonstration of my "schizo-like" tendencies.

Also a personality disorder called schizotypal describes one of the main featurures as talking in a long roundabout way - if I'm doing that(now or in the past), then maybe I have the schizo feature of blabbing on and on about nothing really... am I blabbing on and on about little to nothing?
[QUOTE=GatsbyLuvr1920]It's nice to know that someone else felt the same way. (Thanks for the compliment on my name, by the way! F. Scott Fitzgerald is the master of literature, as my English teacher used to say... :D ) I only used the word "gifted" because that's what the book was about; I don't know if I'm "gifted" or not. I agree with you that we can't rate our own intelligence. I'll let you guys know more tomorrow after my CBT session, and yes, I have a tough time keeping up with the speed of my thoughts (especially while I'm obsessing), too! :angel:
-GatsbyLuvr1920-[/QUOTE]

I agree as well, that you can't RELIABLY rate your own intelligence - but you can get a pretty good estimate at what you are and aren't good at, and know what areas you are "smart" at and "not so smart"(Though there's vast room for under-estimating yourself) - which I don't think is a direct estimate of your intelligence but rather your own competencies, which can reliably rated.

Another use of intelligence is using it as a relative term which depends on others and the context. If a 130 IQ person was being compared to a 70 IQ person in an academic setting, then I think you might consider the 130 IQ person the more intelligent one since IQ has more to do with academic intelligence. But comparing a horribly skilled 130 IQ farmer, with a excellently-skilled 70 IQ farmer than in the realm of "farming" you might find the 70 IQ guy to be the smart one.(and IQ is used as a measurement abritrarily).

However - You can look at intelligence objectively in only certain senses and test it - thus psychometric tests such as IQ testing abounds and thus you can compare yourself to others reliably in those senses alone. Also others can comment on your general intelligence, so you can get a good idea of your own "intelligence" - though not nessecarily self-rate it.
PLEASE READ THIS, CURIOUSKITTY. THIS HAS SOME POTENTIAL ANSWERS IN IT. WHO KNOWS. YOU MIGHT HAVE AN EPIPHONY.

It sounds like there are a lot of emotional links in what you're describing, curiouskitty... like you can look back through your life and find those relationships, to how you feel now from what you lived earlier.

You also strike me as someone who's looking for acceptance and want it with a group that counteracts the group you didn't find acceptance with (pardon me but this is what screams from these posts) now you're looking for a seemingly typically "weird" group of individuals to relate to. I'm sorry but I find this rather offensive. I'm not angry or anything... but what is anger anyway but a reflection of a softer emotion, like hurt or sadness, linked with frustration and lack of coping skills?)

Like I said earlier, you remind me a lot of a friend I have with OCD. She becomes completely obsessed with a new something every once in awhile. For a long time, she was obsessed with Italian history and suddenly, after telling us she was part French, she changed her mind and said she was now Italian and, furthermore, that her father was with the Mafia. Then suddenly, that just disappeared and she never spoke of it again. It's something new all the time. (Okay. this is why I'm not angry. Because although she's perfectly aware of what she's doing, she can't really help it... I guess. So I can't be angry)

Whatever.. the point is, people with schizophrenia tend not to have any idea there is anything wrong with them. Schizophrenia is the last thing we'd ever think of when we're first manifesting symptoms or when sick. When I'm sick, life is beautiful. I'm enlightened, I'm linking to the Great Consciousness, I'm part of various plots (for example, I control the weather, my thoughts ARE being broadcast to Fox Netwok, that sort of thing. I didn't become INTERESTED in these things and be obsessed, I HONESTLY, CERTAINLY, TOTALLY believed them. It was a total skew of perception that was so all encompassing, it was too big for me to see around. For you see, perception is EVERYTHING in the whole universe as far as a percieving being is concerned. As far as my perception is concerned, the world stops when I close my eyes (of course, this is something of a fallacy but I'm just making a point about conscious perception)

Yes. You may have social problems. You may have a lot of thoughts going on at once. But this isn't indicative of sz on it's own, okay? Schizophrenia isn't that much of an umbrella term. It's pretty specific. And the fulcrum of the diagnosis are the psychotic symptoms in combination with negative symptoms. That's when a diagnosis can be nailed. Yes, many of us can show negative symptoms when we're not in full blown psychosis but they're quite different even to what you're describing. The only thing that is even close to such a thing is your social phobias and that sounds a lot more like you're just plain tired of human beings than anything.

Okay.. Let's try this. For example, my lack of mental blocks in my own mind is what makes me ill. Your overabundance of these mental blocks is what makes you ill. They're polar opposites.

Don't stress out about this. Its obvious you're not in any kind of psychotic state right now and from what you've described, you've never been. Again, I can't say. It's a freakin' message board!! SEE A DOCTOR IF YOU'RE CONCERNED. We're not physicians.

Finally, have you ever heard of the whole Common denominator thing? If making a claim or considering a state of things that EVERYONE disagrees with, you, in this situation, are the common denominator. And as such, perhaps it's not everyone else that's wrong... Just perhaps. That's what my intelligence tells me.

peace
pea
[QUOTE=i-be-peabody]Sorry.. I read posts and replied too fast.

Okay. Here's the thing. There are several kinds of digressional thinking. The fact that you recognize yourself doing it at all makes you an unlikely candidate for sz. Also, the kind of "tangential" thinking you're describing isn't quite the same thing. What you describe as tangential, I see as staying on topic better than most.

And SuchGreatHeight. I understood what you said. That there is no correlation doesn't necessarily mean that there is no examples of the two existing together. Totally different things.

peace
pea[/QUOTE]

I believe that you may be misunderstanding what I'm saying, what he's saying, or what exactly correlation means. Correlation means that their is an active relationship between two variables - That doesn't determine association or otherwise. The two variables in this case are giftedness and schizophrenia; With that, there is a statistical relationship - meaning that within the gifted population the incidence is higher for schizophrenia - meaning that their is a relationship. By saying that there is no correlation means that their is no relationship between the two is false. The two are interchangeable(Talking about a statistical relationship). But - examples are another thing and I don't believe I got into the two coexisting in the individual negating your statement[which I'm taking from pea-body's post I said something along those alines].

But thanks peabody - I've always contemplated that possibility. It was a sort of mental juggling act between the two - Mental disorders and just simple weirdness and yearning for acceptance(and likewise behaviors suggesting this - I.E., posting on here when in essence, was just deeply wanting validation) always bringing up the pros and cons suggesting this or that, deducing what things can be explained by whichever plausible theory - trying to effectively negate any possible theories with a fatal argument(though could never find one - The plausible theory always came back to life after being cir***vented by a collolary that allowed it's existance - It's fatal flaw was only temporary.) - while doing all of this It seems I'm obsessed with it. I understand that - but I think my existance and my modus operandi is to simply obsess over theories and deductions - And my own mental health became the target of this constant inquiring, theorizing, deducing, synthesizing, etc. etc.

And I know that IQ tests are not ALL that and high IQ doesn't nessecarily mean genius. But I think the example that you brought up wasn't particularly effective to helping your point - No where did you say that he wasn't gifted with a high IQ, but rather that he was illiterate. The thing with that though, is that illiteracy is not synonymous with IQ. There's something known as gifted disabilities and also twice exceptional students within the gifted population - Basically it means really smart kids who have certain disabilities(It can exist in any subject or ability - math, writing, reading, etc. etc.) which can make a person look stupid. Now I'm not suggesting that the "genius" you brought is a part of this crowd, but the possibility of it negates whatever you're trying to argue. Also - He could be very wise and have much knowledge in a certain skill area that makes him appear like a a genius - and that's when you have to become context-specific. He may be a 'genius' at certain things(Working with mechanical things[cars], giving life advice, multiplying, etc.), but the label of genius implies more generality than that. Again, I'm not saying that this is his case - but it is a possibility that negates your argument. Could you clarify by what mean by 'genius'?

And on the subject of the common denominator - Yes, I've heard of it.(I've also heard of common denominator of falsity - the blind leading the blind... eh? But I'm not going to bring that point up. :P) But realize I'm not trying to convince everyone that I have schizophrenia. I'm trying to bring up valid arguments that would everybody to make an informed opinion - and since I've brought up pretty much all I have and you guys have pretty much stated and reiterated the same convictions you begin with - I think it's pretty safe to say that schizophrenia exists in the realm of unlikelyhood. But then if it's not that... what is it? Oh the constant cycle of questioning and weighing churns on and on....

And I think your impressions may be mistakened about me and my choice to come here. I truly believed that I did have schizophrenic tendencies that just begged the diagnosis of schizophrenia and I thought "what better place than a message board about schizophrenia!", not that I needed someone to relate to and that I purposely came here to find the polar opposite of what normal is to almost guarantee acceptance. Although, I could see that inadvertantly is may of been just been finding someone to relate too and finding social acceptance or rather social relating to someone - and that this impetus lead my wonderings eventually to this place - But no, I didn't come here with that explicit reason. It was really the first reason at the beginning of this paragraph - the social acceptance theory is only partly valid from my perception - and the targeting of a polar-opposite group from the norm, being schizophrenia, seems absurd to me. In no way did that cross my mind - Of course, you'll never know that or not so what does it matter?
Ah. yes. This is the case. The ends of the bell curve.

(Though to be fair, the way he talks isn't necessarily indicative of his credentials. And psychology is a study that fosters a lot of contradiction and controversy. But I can't say a word before I take a look at this link.:) )

It's strange and somewhat surreal knowing one's own IQ. After a long time of not wanting to see it (because high or low, it can give a sense of boundary that might not exist without that kind of knowledge about oneself) I always said "if it's right in front of me and they feel I have something to gain from seeing this, I'll look, but if they tell me that I have to walk across the street (for example) to find out, I couldn't be bothered. I didn't feel I could be in better shape by knowing. Not that I was afriad to know. I was pretty curious, actually. But I just didn't think it was necessary. I think knowing has made me a better person. which sounds a little strange but it really has.

(I did find out somewhat against my will. SO of course, this story is told somewhat in retrospect.)

peace
pea

PS You want to hear some incredible existentialism?? Check out this radio site called wingmakers. Go into the radio section and listen to the track "My Central MEssage" it moved me to tears. This is my central spiritual belief and they've said it beautifully and with wisdom and compassion. As a physics major, people are surprised to learn that I believe in God. But I believe in God the way that this music portrays God. It's a trip. It's worth hearing. When I first went psychotic, this is a perfect example of the feeling of enlightement I had, which I've mentioned... they've personified it. The voice that spoke to me was sexless and it called itself Ghivax. It didn't say God. It said creator. And it spoke like this music speaks. It's worth listening to (Mods am I crossing the line? This is just an opinion. It's worth listening to. Really.)

Really.

peace
pea
I do know that one of his scions was a schizophrenic, but I'm not sure if it was a boy or a girl. Certainty is only two clicks away though......*thinking hard*

And oh yeah - there's a definite link between genius and mental illness. During WW2, the germans were deciding whether or not to eliminate all the mentally ill people and their families(for purification of the german race), but decided not to do so because they would be eliminating many of the intellectual's and geniuses of Germany.

Ummm.. I just tried the link and it worked. I think you have to copy and paste the URL inside the address part of the browser, delete the URL brackets, and then press enter.
[QUOTE=i-be-peabody]Well here's the thing, right? I agree. a lot of intelligent people may very well have a higher chance of developing a mental illness. But this isn't always indicative of [I]brain[/I] illness, which is what sz is. (yes, mental illness first but that's just semantics)

This is my dime store shrink take on everything... Highly intelligent kids tend to be very curious, thoughtful, insightful, and creative. This can cause isolation with their peers (probably alphamaleism or something) These intelligent, sensitive kids then go on to junior high where you throw a heafty dose of hormones in the mix. This is the place and time where the intelligent kids are now starting to see what REAL torment can be like. Finally by high school, they get so damn sick of it, that one of two things usually happens (In my observations, anyway) Fight or Flight. They either hide and cry or they lash out. One day, they may come to school one day with a loaded shotgun..

Regardless, this fight or flight over time (because theis is the reaction to danger, right??) can be a real stress on the brain, the mind and the soul. Mental illness can sometimes follow this as the poor kid's brain has been in fight or flight mode (perception of danger> stressors on the brain > stress - sleep disruption > can't deal anymore) for so damn long that he/she just cracks under the pressure. This can cause suicidal thoughts, depression, isolation and anger which can lead to personality disorders, OCD behaviour.. what have you. This is a kind of environmental reaction to stress. This can often cause mental illness. I'll bet.

But a brain sickness is kind of a different thing. I mean, yeah. Your environment can play a role in whether or not a dormant gene comes to the surface. High levels of stress, taking drugs, Especially psychedelics (which I swear to god is what went on with me) social withdrawl, etc. But this is an [I]indirect[/I] cause, a correlation between genes and what your environment does to those genes. I agree there are many very intelligent psychotic people and that, in some cases, intelligence can lend itself to psychosis but this isn't a necessary condition.Usually, even if a psychotic person can showcase their intelligence to any degree, they're usually too shattered by the time the illness has taken flight to do much about actualizing their potential. (i certainly was. I'm just now getting everything back together :) )That's all I meant. Also, and again, thsi is just from experience. But the psych ward is full of psychotic people. And there aren't many who I would call gifted. I've met a couple. But for the most part, it's a false truth because psychosis does cause heightened awareness of one's surroundings, which can induce high levels of creativity... this isn't always a sign of intelligence, just a unique perspective of the world. Although it can also be a sign of intelligence. I guess what I'm saying is that psychosis can hide intelligence a lot of the time... Which doesn't prove my point but then, I didn't really have apoint to being wiht. Just an interesting, somewhat academic take on things. (I have no previous training in psychology or anything like that. but I do have a science background as well as a creative background and when you do, you tend to see cause and effect relationships everywhere you go)[/QUOTE]

Yeah.. I think this is what I was thinking of :)

peace
pea
When I was younger, I had social problems and used to worry and obsess about all kinds of things. Other people (including doctors and social workers) used to suggest that I had schizophrenia. They even tried me with medication and guess what? I started hallucinating and seeing the Ku Klux Klan following me! In the end I was properly diagnosed with Autism. That's not necessarily saying that you have Autism either.

Do I think intelligent people are at worse risk of mental illness? In some ways, yes, because it can tend to be socially isolating, especially when you are younger and in a typical high school environment. But then, as an adult, you can usually find your own 'niche' and I think that most work out the life skills to deal with it. Being 18 is a difficult stage. The best thing you can do is to learn to accept yourself as you are - it gets easier as you get older. Do things to build your confidence - be yourself and stop worrying about what everyone else thinks, because sometimes the harder you try to make everyone else like you, the worse it gets. Do what you like doing. We all have our own idiosyncrasies and who cares? That's what makes you who you are and an individual, so don't feel bad about it. Good luck!
I still, one hundred percent, stand by the fact that absolutely anyone (with any IQ score) can acquire a Mental Illness. But I also wanted to state that I do think many people with certain disorders (illnesses) hold a higher intelligence.

I think why you and I bump heads on this subject, Kitty, is that you state (theoretically) that many people have higher intelligence rates (which can be true), while I stick to the rock solid fact that anyone can acquire one. To copy and paste, "...anyone at any intelligence rate can receive a mental illness. That means 50/50. I never claimed one showed more or less.".

But to move on, (again copying and pasting) I wanted to shed my two cents on the subject.

"It could be possible that with over analyzing and constantly thinking (AD/HD, OCD, Anxiety), that many people with such disorders, have a high intelligence because of the source. It's just that a lot of the symptoms from that source cause a lot of problems (jumping from subject to subject, talking a lot, getting caught up on the small details, etc.)." (From my AD/HD with Social Anxiety post ' [URL=http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showpost.php?p=2179904&postcount=6]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showpost.php?p=2179904&postcount=6[/URL] ')

I believe that Schizophrenia works in the same way (on some levels). And in other ways, Schizophrenia teaches people how to cope, react and live in different aspects than some people do. That in which, increases certain aspects of the brain (intelligence, personal growth, etc.)

I also believe though, that Schizophrenia (and other disorders) can cause certain psychological damage to how a person lives and thinks. Which this can decrease intelligence. And certain symptoms of Schizophrenia (disorganized thought, attention/concentration difficulties, etc.) can also cause people to show a lower intelligence rate.

And I just wanted to add, that it is obvious, that you have some personal difficulties (I never denied you the fact of that). I'm still forward to the idea of a professional. Because no matter the diagnosis, therapy and/or medications could be a possibility.

SGH
As I tried to say myself, though I think I got a little too wordy about it, yes, I agree. Intelligence lends itself to higher cases of mental illness in a lot of cases. But... okay. Think of grade eight math. They're not dependant on one another as a universal. They occur together at times and in some cases, mental illness is dependant on intelligence, but this is something that has to be taken on a case by case basis.
I think we're having a problem agreeing that we all agree what we understand what we are all saying. :)

I agree with you all ,suchgreatheights and I-be-peabody, there was just one small statement that I picked out of your posts and analyzed too death and thus my responses. Everything else I agreed with.

Anyhow,
late in the hour last night,
around 4 in the frigid cold morning,
I thought my computer was talking.
That's right, I thought it was talking.
So I turned up my computer's volume,
Because I really did assume,
it was coming from my computer -


But - Nope. There was no sound coming from my computer - If there was, it would of gotten louder as I turned up the volume but it didn't. It was just a whole bunch of small, barely audible sounds - it didn't quite sound like talking but just like very light incomprehensible gibberish. It so hard to describe an internal experience...
I kind of had this theory, or condition regarding my own possible development of a psychiatric disorder. The idea was that if I ever got to the point where communicating with others obviously wasn't working(Other don't understand you, and Other people seem to think you didn't understand them which in reality is probably true but isn't apparent to the misunderstanding/misunderstood person) and it once did in the past, then I can safely say communication skills or whatever you want it call it has probably declined - which..... if all efforts are made to correct that, but nothing works - Then it most likely has a psychiatric-related cause. I'm starting to think, with my apparent inability to communicate on here(and how I haven't had a response since my last post) and how seemingly intelligent individuals whom should understand everybody, in chatting online and offline, seem to think that I don't understand them(even though I do, but somehow that's not expressed when I communicate or I don't seem to communicate "understanding"), that I am on the verge of developing one.

Also considering the fact I have become increasingly isolated with all contact with people in real-life being cutoff drastically, I think I may be developing something. But I'll never really know. And even if I am developing something, it's irreversible so I might as well enjoy the time that I have on this earth - even if it's spent in disillusionment.(Arguably everyone lives in some degree of delusion, and so my delusion would only be at a greater degree than most)

As the saying goes "Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die.".
Hahahaha.... I think this is how it is for most others I try to talk/chat to. I make a somewhat ambiguous reply, and then they're thinking "how do I respond to this?" because of the ambiguity or the irrelevance or non-reciprocity of it, and then..... silence falls and everybody ignores it. I'm trying to find out exactly how to fix whatever needs to be "fixed", but can't really determine what needs to be fixed... so it's a "hmmmmmmmmmmm" problem.
Well no, it's not exactly that... I mean, that wasn't quite what I meant. I just meant that you never mentioned this kind of thing in your earlier posts. So it's kind of... you know. Did that ever happen before? I mean, that reply wasn't ambiguous, really. It was more.. unexpected because you've never mentioned anything like this.

Again, we probably can't fix anything. If you're concerned about the responses you're getting, really, see a doctor. You deserve to know what's going on with you and since we don't know you, we're coming up really short on being able to help beyond just talking. (not that talking doesn't help!! But in conjunction with clinical attention, you'd probably get more help than just simply talking alone, is all I mean)

There is good news here. If you recognize (and reading between the lines, I'd say you do, otherwise you'd have not mentioned it) that what you heard from the computer didn't come from the computer, (using the logic of checking the volume, etc) then you're recognizing that it could be from your mind. That being said, the fact that you are capable of recognizing that is a really good sign. It means that you're aware of your own perceptions versus reality. Most people in a psychotic state wouldn't know the difference (too sick to realize you're sick... pardon me, but there is a term for it. It's slipped me for the moment.) because of course, perception is everything! Everything we are, everything we believe or think or understand or remember is based on perception. Our whole personality is based on our perception of the world (which is why schizophrenia is so shattering) and so when we perceive something to be true, it's very hard to see around something like that, to be able to say "This is not real, no matter how real it seems" Our perception shapes us, therefore it's bigger than us, in a way. And if you can understand what the deal was with, say , this computer thing, then you're still able to logically percieve around that hallucination, if it was one, to what reality actually is. So that's a really good sign!

There are many illnesses where the radar is up and you pick up things that aren't necessarily real or based in reality. Schizophrenia is one of the most powerful, which is why many people who are ill with it don't believe they're ill. But in other illnesses where psychotic symptoms can be present (anything from depression to multiple personality, from OCD to ... borderline personality disorder.) sometimes they're not as devastating and all-encompassing. So the sufferer can realize, even if their perceptions are skewed and seem real, that they're NOT real but that something is still very wrong. Just a thought. I don't think anyone has mentioned that yet.

peace
pea
Thank you all for your replies, you don't really know how grateful I've been. :)

As for an UPDATE: I went to see a graduate psychometrist for some extended 3 battery test testing that should of picked up certain symptoms of schizophrenia, or at least it should of shown up on the psychometrist's radar, and the only thing that came up was something like "racing thoughts" and "bizarre and strange thoughts". Those two results were later confounded when she found that my WAIS-IQ was between 140-150, or 145 which theoretically means I scored higher than 99.8% of the population on this test[Though it loses it's accuracy at the extrema] which she then ascribed these two symptoms to "extreme intelligence". But this findiing is even murked by the posited link between extreme intelligence(extremely HIGh and extremely LOW intellect) which several studies have showed a higher general incidence of schizophrenia at high IQ scores, so these two previous symptoms could be because I just simply think too much, or I'm actually developing schizophrenia which is a real possibility for my IQ range. So these findings kind of make it a whole lot harder to tell what's what and what's happening BECAUSE OF WHAT.

She also stated that I may have memory impairment after she administered the Memory test and compared it to the IQ score, but I didn't really get all the details on this as the university keeps this information as UNavailible as possible and she didn't want to elaborate because then the University would be at more legal risk. That may of be of important, maybe not. After reading the literature on the Memory scale(I've researched it), there's a suggestion by other researchers that Memory-IQ discrepency found "memory impairments" May be acquired over someone's lifetime - So this could be a recent development. If I remember right, schizophrenia usually entails faulty memory which causes a loss in concetration which allows random meaningfully-insignicant thoughts to pass through the schizophrenic's mind, which causes the tangentiality and also schizophrenia usually develops near the time around the adults(Plus or minus 5-10 years) which I believe means that this memory-deficit must of increased over the schizophrenic's lifespan; If I've recently acquired this memory-deficit, then that suggests that some neurodegenerative disorder is at play: But the psychometrist didn't really clarify to the degree of this "memory-impairment" nor how common my degree of "memory impairment" was within my IQ range or a slightly lower IQ range(Since I think my measured IQ was actually too high), so that may be unfounded speculation.

But for some reason, I don't feel that intelligent nor do my university Test Grades really support that IQ score; I usually always score below the class's average on the tests, even though I've studied comparably the same amount as my peers. So I think my WAIS IQ score was a fluke, and she falsely attributed the previous two symptoms to it - But even then.... there's more to schizophrenia; So maybe I don't have much too worry about.

There's just so many seemingly damn contradictions. There has to be a set of explanations for EVERYTHING that's been going on, and I've yet had the opportunity to find out(Since the psychometrist was vague, and I don't have easy access to a psychologist since I'm not overtly hallucinating nor am I in a psychotic mayhem). :confused:

I'll find out within 10 years though! haha. :D
[QUOTE=SuchGreatHeight]You are being extremely irrational. Irritable and argumentative? Can you say PMS?!? Again, you stated NO SIGNS OR SYMPTOMS OF SCHIZOPHRENIA. And here I thought I was clear. In case you missed my first point, I wrote it in large caps in the previous sentence.

"Maybe I do have schizophrenia? Schizophrenics usually are ignored because they're "crazy" or incoherent." Aren't YOU the one who wrote that? Yes, you did "imply" that. And we understood what you meant clearly. Which is why we stated that you were being an idiot. I'm sorry, I meant that you were being untruthful.

"...along with all this other symptoms and evidences..." Other symptoms and evidences? Why don't you point those out for us kittie. And while you're at it, you can tell me where you saw a thought disorder. All I saw was you using larger words that your vocabulary could comprehend, telling us every damn IQ score you ever recieved, and you going on about people "thinking youĎre eccentric".

Let me be your diagnostician for a second kittie. My final diagnosis would have to be Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Hyperchondrical Disorder and a severe case of Idiocy.[/QUOTE]


. I dont think you have the right to be calling kittie an idiot. what did she/he do to you? in fact, kittie seems to me to be quite intelligent. Kittie obviously thinks a lot and there is nothing wrong with that. Now, i remember before i was diagnosed with schizophrenia, i read up on all sorts of mental disorders and at times believed i had almost every one of them. And This often happens to people who are studying psychology because they over analyze everything about themselves .

I do agree that kittie didn;t list anything to suggest she/he has schizophrenia, but that seems to be what she came to find out. That;s why kittie asked our opinions Schizophrenia is very complicated and often difficult to diagnose. It took me 2 years of researching and reading almost every day to really understand the disorder.
Well, this thread may be abandoned...not sure, but had to put my two cents in. Curiouskitty, if you have ever been around true schizophrenics, those not on meds, you would see that it is not a disorder that you could have and logically think "Hmmm, am I schizophrenic or not?" You sound so Autism Spectrum Disorder to me! The fact that you have perseverated on an idea for so long, regardless of what others have told you (the idea that you have schizophrenia) is a typical ASD trait! If you look at the DSM criteria for Asperger's, you will see that you do not have to have all traits to have the disorder.
See below...
A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity

B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
[QUOTE=sickofbingsick]Well, this thread may be abandoned...not sure, but had to put my two cents in. Curiouskitty, if you have ever been around true schizophrenics, those not on meds, you would see that it is not a disorder that you could have and logically think "Hmmm, am I schizophrenic or not?"

i have to disagree. Not all schizophrenics experience loss of insight. Especially in the early stages of the illness when the onset is slow.many people with schizophrenia are aware that they are ill...even when they aren't on meds. Schizophrenia comes in all ranges of severity, from mild to severe.
Sorry...I don't know how to quote from another's post, so I cut and pasted.
halfreality wrote "i have to disagree. Not all schizophrenics experience loss of insight. Especially in the early stages of the illness when the onset is slow.many people with schizophrenia are aware that they are ill...even when they aren't on meds. Schizophrenia comes in all ranges of severity, from mild to severe."

I knew I would get myself in trouble with my blanket statement. Truth is, I have only ever been around people with schizophrenia who are experiencing true psychotic symptoms and are unable to self-evaluate. My point of the post was, if you look at the DSM criteria for schizophrenia versus asperger's or HFA, curiouskitty seems to meet more criteria for asperger's.

I posted Asperger's earlier, but here is schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia

A group of psychotic disorders characterized by disturbances in thought, perception, affect, behavior, and communication that last longer than 6 months.
Symptoms. For a material part of at least one month (or less, if effectively treated) the patient has had 2 or more of:

Delusions (only one symptom is required if a delusion is bizarre, such as being abducted in a space ship from the sun)

Hallucinations (only one symptom is required if hallucinations are of at least two voices talking to one another or of a voice that keeps up a running commentary on the patient's thoughts or actions).

Speech that shows incoherence, derailment or other disorganization

Severely disorganized or catatonic behavior Any negative symptom such as flat affect, reduced speech or lack of volition.

Duration. For at least 6 continuous months the patient has shown some evidence of the disorder. At least one month must include the symptoms of frank psychosis mentioned above. During the balance of this time (either as a prodrome or residual of the illness), the patient must show either or both:

Negative symptoms as mentioned above.

In attenuated form, at least 2 of the other symptoms mentioned above (example: deteriorating personal hygiene plus an increasing suspicion that people are talking behind one's back).

Dysfunction. For much of this time, the disorder has materially impaired the patient's ability to work, study, socialize or provide self-care.


Anyways, m25, hope I didn't sound defensive, I do not have a mental illness. I am actually interested in asperger's b/c I think that my son may have it. There were a few links talking about schizophrenia and autism, so I was drawn to this board and threads.





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