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Feelbad, thanks so much for that info. I haven't had the cervical MRI yet, still trying PT, it has lessened the tingling a good bit. When I get the migraine its a burning, aching pain that starts in my left shoulder goes up at the base of skull and part way up the back, and then the pain is above my eyebrow also. When they are relly bad, my nose will run constantly on the left side only, somtimes the pain switches to the right side, but its more of a pain in the eye on that side. Weird. Do you get the facial tingling alot? I have this everyday, but it seems when my neck isn't bothering me its not there as much. Thanks again for your reply, it is greatly appreciated. :wave:
I echo the previous posts. Yes to tingling, yes to headaches. I just posted something about this on the board to Mumof3fairies on headaches, if you want to read that post.

No offense to you or anyone else on this board, but I find it very annoying that they are trying PT before they image you... I realize that some docs, usually HMOs will do this to save $$$, and to save you from unnecessary testing - it's important to have the Cspine area imaged. Personally I would push (I'm pushy) for a Cspine and brain MRI asap. This way you know if it is a Cspine issue or just a muscular issue. And if it is migraines (and yes, migraines can cause pain in shoulders, neck, and the tingling on their own) they may or may not have some scarring or spotting on the brain scan. Your doc will be able to 'see' the migraines. This way you're treated properly...

I was misdiagnosed as migraine for many years... and I'm very angry about it.. if I were imaged properly in the first place, I would have maybe started treating my neck better years earlier and possibly have less bone spur etc. than I do now.. maybe not, but yes, maybe I'd have fewer problems had I known about it earlier.

And again, not to scare you, sometimes PT is not good for those of us with CSpine issues, depending on what is going on in there. My PT made my neck worse when a fairly inexperienced therapist tried some manual manipulation on a facet joint and caused my then unaffected left side to start having electric shocks, spasms, etc...

So I would seriously push for the imaging. Find out what is really going on and then come up with a treatment plan. Right now the docs are going off of educated guesses based off of stats... and that is just so wrong in my mind.

Sorry if this post seems cranky or pushy or out of line. I'm just very passionate and your post reminded me of so many posts I myself posted years ago... just wondering what the heck was up with my head and neck and face and shoulders - while my docs just fed me imitrex.

Good luck to you -
Cheryl
ICC - They don't think that the shoulder pain is coming from the Cspine? This seems to me like almost a no-brainer... Unless you know for sure that the shoulder joint is messed up, your pain is likely nerve pain from the Cspine. I'm no doctor, I'll say that upfront, but do a search on these boards for shoulder and you'll see lots of folks who have severe shoulder pain. Especailly with myelopathy -- this might be radicular pain..

How annoying for you. I'm so sorry... Your facial pain/numbness is likely due to the Cspine issues too... I get numb tingling lips all of the time. I"m sorry you are WC - I know that is awful. Years and years ago, I used to work as a paralegal for WC patients - I know how hard it is for you to get the treatment you need.

Are you seeing a neurologist? A neurologist might not want the WC to spend the money on a shoulder doc when the pain is radicular in nature. Not to scare you or confuse you any further, but just a thought. I hope it works out and you get the tratement you need. Have you tried Lyrica, Neurontin, Topamax, etc yet? Sometimes those help quite a bit with the nerve pain and if it is not the shoulder joint, it might help with that pain too.
puparoo----my first dr. appt after the injury was with a shoulder surgeon.. he blew me off and said it was all coming from my c-spine. saw the spince specialist 2 days later who said i also suffered a shoulder injury. i was also told that the ankle swelling and pain was coming from my back. have 4 bulged diks that i ahve lived with since '99. heels go numb once in awhile if i sit too long or the wrong way. well i finally went to my PCP and tol dhim i needed him to "pretend " this was not work related for a minute an dsend me to whatever dr. he would if i had gotten hurt outside of work.He ordered an MRI of back, another cervical, ankle, and shoulder. ankle has tarsal tunnel and tendonitis (so it is not all coming from my back), shoulder has a sub-acromial impingement (so the shoulder surgeon was wrong and spine specialist was right). neck is a mess. i think the spine dr . knows i need shoulder surgery to repair this and wants that done first to see just how much pain is actually coming from my neck. he told me last week that he is holding off on surgery on my neck for now BUT it must be watched for life. attorney asked me if the spince dr. thinks this is work realted. these people crack me up. everyone knows part of this could be age related but had i not lifted 50# continutally for 20 years i don't believe it would be as progressed as it is. took me since May to open my mouth and be in control of my own health. the enxt step will be a neuro. i can't let them inject me anymore since i have diabetes and the past week has been hell. got an ankle shot on wed. and then had to take oral sterioids all day yesterday for 2 CT scans/with contrast i'm having today. my glucose if off the charts and since i am diet controlled i WILL not let this work injury put me on insulin. OK i think i;m done complaing for a minute but will be back i;m sure with more. my neck scares me. no one wants to touch it. they avoid all therapy on it. so to answer your original question (sorry the steroids are making me fly) some of the pain is from my neck but with the impingement in my shoulder some is from that. i knew something was up since i have 10 xs the pain on my left side of neck thant on the right and it's my left shoulder that's bad. thanks for being there and caring. it means alot.:wave: oh as far as meds go i am in the 1% of the population who is sensitive to everything. PCP has mentioned possibly trying lyrica or neurontin at some point. so many side effects with my personal health issues. scary!!!
Hey ICC, i DO feel for ya.geez c spine/shoulder pain,ya think MAYBE there IS a connection??duh.some docs just kill me with there unbelievable level of total ignorance.for YEARS i was told that my under the shoulder blade pain was in NO WAY comming from the wonderful little cavernoma inside of my spinal cord.two neurosurgeons told me,no way,it was not possible.my cav is/was at the c 8 nerve level.by the time i finally got to the office of the head of neurosurgery at the university of MN,i was like ready to make that final leap over the freeway overpass down the street.honestly,if not that,what the hell was it?this NS was my true savior.honestly,one of the first things that came out of his mouth was YES,my cav was probably the key trigger for this hidious prying/pressure type of pain i was having,and he not only told me,he showed me how this was possible with a little drawing he made for me showing me just how the nerves actually run below the vertebrae.honestly,i was never so happy to hear 'bad' news.

finding a very knowledgable and experienced NS is really the biggest thing.the ironic thing was one of my NSs that i had seen before,and who did my c spine surgeries,was actually taught by this NS,he had gone to the U of M for med school.i think he must have either missed that particular lecture on how the nerves run or partied too much the night before and slept thru it.

if anyone takes the time to actually see how the nerves actually run thru the c spine,they pretty much totally innervate the entire shoulder area and the entire upper back,not to mention the ones that run down from the head and loop back up into it at the c 8 junction.HELLOOOO??

because of the mess i now have at my c 8 from the cavernoma resection surgery,my head/face,legs feet c spine and a huge area where the tracts and other nerves that were damaged run,i literally have some level affectation from head to foot.kind of that domino effect?

my facial stuff,the tingling and the off and on numbness will just come and go when it wants to,like right now,the tip of my nose is tingling,wasn't there like ten minutes ago.i do have some sort of loss of a level of sensory at my upper lip area as well and really am not sure if this is loss of prioperception(which i have in certain areas,mostly my legs)but i cannot tell whether my mouth is open or closed when i am not actually looking at it or touch it with my tongue.wierd,really.just one of my many 'gifts" from the nerve and tract damage that is all stemming from my c spine and not my aneurysm in my brain.yes,we have had fun lately.god i hate docs,really.espescially the ones that are just never ever wrong in their Dx and are not willing to own up to mistakes of any kind.yea,you ARE human just like the rest of us.

i am off my box now,sorry to ramble.just slap me please.marcia
marcia**** we ramble almost the same. i love it because we are right and when we get on it and know the other person knows what you're talking about you get alot of frustration out. i am really glad we can be here for each other. i though i was a mess. you must be in pain all the time. i am making the rules now and seeing what dr.s i want to see. my PCP got the point the other day. with all the cervical stuff going on it's difficult to make the dx as to where what is coming from. if not for the impingemnt in my rotator cuff i think all dr. swould be on my neck but since the MRI of my shoulder now they're all slowing down a litttle and consulting with each other about proper treatment. i called to schedule an evaluation for PT today and they said since there are so many body parts they won't put me through doing the eval in one visit. instead they will eval upper body one day and lower body another. i was pleased withthat. staring with aquatic PT but then there is a multitude of therapy listed on my prescription. should take about 2 year sto get through it all especially if there are any surgeries int he meantime. i had a ct /with contrast of abdomen and throat this morning. the prep for me is endless with the steroids, benadryl(have an allergy to the dy and asthma) over 50 so blood has to be done and i have no veins. well when all was ready i got in the machine and it broke LOL i could do nothing but laugh or i would've cried. it ended up taking 4 hours instead of 15 minutes to get this done. at this point between the steroids, fasting since i am diabetic, the benadryl i didn't know which direction i was in. the last time i;ll go throughthat. all dr. are going to be told they can take my steroids themselves.:wave: and then they had my bad shoulder up over my head for an hour and it froze and made me walk all over the hospital for another ct machine with the bad back and ankle. not even an offer of a chair. UGH!!!!
Well I had the MRI done yesterday, I knew the MRI tech, and when he pulled me out of the tube, he asked me if I could tell him what side is the pain that I have on, I asked him, "you seen something didn't you? He told me that he wasn't allowed to say, but told me not to go roller coaster riding, skydiving, bungee jumping, or hang gliding until I talk to the doc on Monday. I was concerned at first because MS runs in my family, and he knew that I have been worried about this for 8 years, but never had insurance then to have the MRI done. He told me that if I would have had this done 8 years ago I could have saved myself alot of worry and anxiety. So, then I asked him if it was high in my cervical spine, and he said yes. Can they even do surgery if it is that high, I'm thinking C-1, C-2, because x-rays that I had sone 3 years ago at the chiro office showed a mild misalignment at C-1. Can problems in the c-spine cause problems in your legs, because when I sit down, my upper top of my legs tingle. What could this possibly be? I asked if I should be worried all weekend and start my xanax again, he just smiled as said no, so about the PT, I asked about what he thought about continuing PT, which I have been doing for the last 10 weeks, he said to talk to the doc Monday. The PT has helped alot with the facial tingling though. Could a problem be lower than C-2, C-3, cause the facial tingling and shoulder pain? I know I'm asking alot of questions, just can't wait til Monday, everyone here seems pretty well educated about these issues. Thanks so much!!! jen:wave:
Yes, problems lower than C1/2 can and do cause shoulder pain. Way more likely to cause shoulder pain at C5/6, maybe even 4. I defer to the rest of the board. C3/4, 5/6 and even lower can cause the headaches too...
puparoo, thanks so much for the info. Can ear pain be caused from the disk problem at the lower level. I have ear pain, lower back teeth pain, shoulder and neck stiffness, and facial tingling. I don't really have arm symptoms though. You talked about seizures. Can problems in these areas cause seizures? I had last week a episode where my son was sleeping with me, and he said I woke him up because I was tossing around, and then I sat straight up in bed gasping for breath. I wonder if it could have been a seizure or sleep apnea maybe. I also get heart palpitations that take my breath away for a second. Could all this be caused by neck problems? Unlike you, I've been in 3 car accidents, and 1 quad accidents, The first one I was 17 (18 yrs ago), the second 8 years ago, the quad in July this year, and the final rearend collison was Aug 19th this year. Sooooo, I dunno where it all began, but the headaches started 8 years ago, which was only 2 months after the accident. Thanks for your time, hopefully we can talk again.:wave:
jenny---have an ugly neck. worst is between the C5-6 C6-7. have all the shoulder pain, left ear, face timgling, headaches that start right below my skull and go up the back of my head. started to have palps recently and never considered that they would have anything to do with it. i will wait for an answer with you. never thought the ear pain was coming from neck either. also have an impinged rotator cuff so who knows what's coming from what.:confused:
Gosh, Jenny --

You sound just like me. Bless your heart. :) Sometimes I find sharing my stories helps others, and helps me just as much.

Jenny, Personally, it sounds like you might have some TMJ disorder going on with your neck issues too... I do. MY jaw pops, I have ear pain, my teeth hurt and are loose, etc and headaches. And yes, I"ve taken anatomy, etc., but cannot remember the scientific name of all of the muscles associated with the jaw, shoulders, neck and back, but they are all connected. Your jaw is so strong and large, when it is pulled out of place because of (Only god knows what) the TMJ disorder, it will cause soreness in the shoulders, neck and headaches and ear pain. Those are hallmarks of TMJ disorders.

But I can usually differentiate the headahces associated with my 'tired' jaw versus the **horrid** headaches that are coming from my neck. My dentists think that it is a combo - my neurologists laugh off the TMJ disorder issues. Seriously, They won't even take that seriously, none of them. Not to say that the TMJ isn't bad, it is. But neuros consider the TMJ and anything associated with it secondary to my cervical problems. But like you and ICC, gosh, I can't answer whether the cervical issues cause these problems... But geez, we are all here arent' we with the same problems???? My dentists say "Neck could cause TMJ" Dentist also said "TMJ could 'contribute' to neck". BUT I NEVER KNOW WHO TO TRUST BECAUSE THEY WANT MY MONEY... Especially the dentists because my insurance is so crappy... ya know???


Do you have a splint? That might help you to align the jaw a little better and try to pin point your pain.

My seizures - I never was diagnosed with them, actually. What happened were a few shaking and trembling episodes with my legs, 10-30 seconds of uncontrollable shaking and trembling while at rest. They were seizure-like. I never got an explanation for them, but my doctors believe they were from my irritated sciatic nerve.... I had three back in July and haven't had another since. I never had full body seizures (or grand mal or anything)

Jenny, also, if you are anything like me - it sounds like you have all of these very real issues going on (neck, TMJ, tingling and probably a lot of residual worry and anxiety from wondering 'what' they are and 'who' will treat you and 'how' will you find hte right doctor, etc. (AT least that is how I was and still am most of the time). And I don't think you are going to get any better with all of the anxiety on top of it. I hate to have this conversation in such a public forum - but tingling, jerking awake at night, heavy breathing, palpitations, are all 'real' symptoms, are all symptoms of our bodies saying,

"Hey, man, (or woman) this is just wayyyy too much for me to deal with, so I am going to release all of this built up 'worry, anxiety and panic' in physical symptoms" along with your real issues like TMJD and cervical problems.

I think you have some anxiety going on, Jenny. Really. I'm not writing off your issues to anxiety, but I think, YOU, like ME, have all of these issues and just cannot get to the bottom of them - and why wouldn't we be worried??!!!

Once, before my cervical issues were diagnosed, I had tingling neck, head and shoulders for three months, even blurry vision. This was about 3 years ago.. and I mean, in hindsight, the more I worried about it, even subconsciously, the worse it got.

So, I saw a therapist (not very helpful to me - didn't help at all). I started doing a little bit of exercise, reading some self help books, educating myself about the physical manifestations of panic and anxiety, trying relaxation tapes, etc... and best of all my doc prescribed low dose antidepressants - which is what I really needed in the midst of all of my craziness.

And personally, trying to be less worried everyday and realized how much time I spent worrying my life away. And I still do this, by the way... worry my life away.

But probably a little less than I did, and little by little, the real symptoms stayed and my body had less palpitations, etc...

Your waking up at night sounds like you may have had a horrible nightmare, or maybe some sleep apnea. Definitely worth checking out --- but that doesn't sound like a seizure to me..

HOpe this helps, Jenny!

Cheryl





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