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Spinal Cord Disorders Message Board

Spinal Cord Disorders Board Index

NC? just EXACTLY per your MRI report is your actual hemagioma located, and this DOES matter ALOT as far as real risk and any potential symptoms. is this what they termed 'intraosseous' meaning in or on the boney parts, or "extra or intra medullary" which would locate this more in or on the actual neural tissue/cord area? or is this even per chance off a vein within your neck/soft tissue area? knowing specifically where this is in/at really IS critical for you to know and for me to know in order to give you any really good advice on this. mine was unfortuently smack IN my cord right at that c 8 nerve level and took up almost all my cordspace except for a couple MMs of it and had also bled. soo, when i finally got to like the ONLY out of three flippin neurosurgeons who actually REALLY truely had a ton of experience with these little buggers in cords and brains(he was the head of neurosurgery at the U of MN, and thank GOD he had not yet retired)i also found out something NO other NS i saw told me, that this HAD already bled and was considered to be an 'active bleeder',oh yippie. mine had to come out since it was engorging from what he could tell and if it bled again i would have become paralyzed from the chest on down since that little bit of good cord space i had left would be gone.
but if you could tell me just where this is exactly located in your 'neck', i have done a TON and a half of research on these suckers in various areas over lotsa years NC.

AZ,having a hemangioma in the liver is usually a bit different type than what can show within the spinal and the also the brain? there are 'straight out' hemangiomas that are tiny globs of venous fed blood vessels that when in the liver, but since the liver is such a highly vascular "sponge" really do not impact like they do in the other CNS related areas? i was born with what they refer to as a 'cavernous hemangioma' right IN my spinal cord,and trust me, tho 'they themselves" generally do not generate actual pain signals, as you mentioned it IS the real location of them and what they are impacting? but IN the cord changes everything since it IS an 'irritant' in the cord, esp if it has bled(mine unfortunetly did, even before my inital MRI was even done back in 2001). and they can also generate TPs from the signals sent out as well as some pretty sick and insane 'perceptions' of crap like 'actively' going on IN your body(as in a real 'verb here) in the areas directly above and below the hemangioma that show AT the outter vertebral levels too.

my mom has had a liver hemangioma too since birth she also never knew about til it just 'showed up" upon ultrasound, and she is in her early 70s right now. she has never had any bleeds so far and since the liver itself feels no pain since there just are no actual 'nerves" running into it like other areas, they generally stay pretty quiet, unless they happen to bleed, which within the liver is usually, but not always "within themselves' moreso than outward so they simply enlarge from within. no one yet even really knows just exactly what it is that realistically 'sets off' any given bleeds in the venous fed vascular malformations like hemangioma, unlike the arterial counterpart called an arteriovenous malformation that simply DOES get more correlated to things like high blood pressure? it just is a much lower pressure venous fed that has less risk of bleed as what you would natually think as the higher pressure arterially fed type that DOES just have that higher risk for bleeds. our BPs can simply change from MANY different thing during the course of any given day esp when we are in pain or have high BP. and of course THAT too impacts anything that is a vascular malformation as in like aneurysm too, which the arterio kind of is like, but just a much more incredibly 'tangled mass or 'worms' thats how they actually describe them medically. hopefully your liver lesion will never actually 'do' anything but sit there and take up space az.

NC, did they also mention ANY actual 'wording' in describing that hemangioma and also give any approx size as well? if you have that MRI report handy and could type out how the interpretting rad actually fully described that angioma, it really would help. was there ANY mention of something called 'hemosiderin'? just need to know that since that word simply means that a hemangioma or anything within our CNS has actually bled at all. its the iron deposits that the brain and cord will not for some reason absorb, so that is what they use to determine if anyone has EVER had like an old brain bleed too(this is seen also when someone has previously had stroke too)? whatever solid info you could give me NC really would help me alot to try and help you. marcia
We have the same thing exact thing in common as I had an automobile accident and thats how they found my Hemangioma of the T2 vertebral body with abnormal bone marrow signal intensity! The doctors all claim it doesn't cause pain I disagree! I am in pain 24 hours a day 7 days a week! I am going to find a doctor who is willing to take a closer look at the Hemangioma and try and help me with this pain!!! The pain starts at the exact location of the Hemangioma and escalates! Trust me, your not crazy and I believe the pain can be caused by the tumor!!! Maybe its benign but that doesn't mean it doesn't cause pain!! It should be CT scanned to see the size exact location and if its leaning on something! I wish you well and if I find a doctor who specializes in this condition I will post it! All the Best!
My daughter just got her mri report back and a hemangioma was listed in the findings, however, was not put down under the impressions by the doctor. We just seem to be getting no where in finding out what is causing her neck pain. Tomorrow will be week #3 that this has been going on. The night it started it came on out of nowhere with her feeling fine all day and then all of the sudden she threw up and then has severe head pain which now is neck pain. She has gotten sick a few more times but mostly its the pain that is in her neck and goes down her back. She has had a ct scan, and mri and today an x-ray. Sinuses was one thing they told her but we just don't think that seems right. She does not have a stuffy/runny nose. They listed the mri impression as 1. Straightening of the normal cervical lordosis and 2. Otherwise, unremarkable mri of the cervical spine. Of the brain it was right frontal sinus opacifications. If anyone has any ideas or what type of dr we should see please let me know. Thanks
sorry about your daughter lulu. just EXACTLY where did they find that hemangioma at, and i mean the exact wording used to describe it by the interpretting radiologist who made that report(exact wording really can be very important in describing ANY real hard finding)? its just kind of odd that he would not have placed THAT type of finding no matter where it was located actually IN that impressions/summary. you 'may' have gotten a rather inexperienced type of radiologist who actually did that interpretation. they all have to 'start" somewhere, ya know what i mean? any actual 'read/interpretation' of someones films with any type of scan comes down to ALOT having to do with simply how well that rad does their job by virtue of many reads and the overall experience OF that particular rad, and a few other things too, like clarity OF the actual films being among them too. but you get what i mean? a hemangioma found this way should have been simply listed as what is referred to as "an incidental finding'.

what you have there is ONLY that one rads overall impression, and that is why when anyone sees any type of specialist, they ALWAYS want you to bring in the actual films/CD themselves and NOT only that report(many specialists do NOT even look at a mere rads report either). the specialist anyone sees also will do 'their own interpretation' but with a much more experienced to that specific area trained eye. this is also a "second opinion' type of read too.

i agree with AZ in that she should try and see an actual neurosurgeon only because they would have the best overall working knowledge of that spinal and brain together kind of thing? who knows what 'could be' there that this particular rad actually missed or did NOT 'feel' was even pertinent given the non attention of that hemangioma? with regards to the 'opacifications" finding, the only thing i can think of with that is they found 'more than one somethings' in that frontal sinus that was NOT like "see thru' or non transparent but more 'solid' kind of thing? i am just kind of wingin THAT one just based on what "opaque" refers to, "non penetrable by radiant energy". so there IS something in that sinus which may or may not explain the "episodes". it would have been nice if that rad(and this is another reason i feel this dude just is not really all that experienced)could have better defined in some real way just what these areas actually are made up of. you can usually tell at least 'something' with the types of scans and the x ray, like what something is made up of based upon the way the scans all 'pick up on" specific things that give off low intensity or high intensity esp upon the MRIs T wieghted images. so THAT sinus finding DOES need better definition by at least an neurosurgeon. she is just IN that more diagnostic phase so every possible finding needs better clarification too by someone who has seen this stuff many many times before and 'can' define it.

did they happen to actually use ANY type of actual contrast during the MRI and the CT they did(it WOULD state that in the MRI/CT reports if they did use it)? when esp looking into the brains areas, its just pretty important to always try and use some type of contrasting agent so things like blood vessels simply will highlight/show up soo much better. if they did NOT actually use any contrast, something could possibly be missed within the brains areas that can sometimes just be hidden or not seen really well upon either scan depending upon what it is and where it is. but to the highly trained eye of that NS, they may be able to make out particular things that any rad could miss too, so it really IS important to have your daughter and those films all fully checked out. but i AM wondering what is setting off the vomiting episodes along with also having a fever running too? this just "could be" two seperate things coinciding at the same time, or it could be tied together in some odd way too. but the sudden onset headpain, now THAT too could be related to the underlying cause here or it could have been the onset of something either viral or bacterial going on too? headpain can just happen for sooo many different reasons, ya know?

but knowing what IS within the sinus and specifically where that hemangioma was found and if this indeed IS 'only' a hemangioma needs to be found out too. there just are more than hemangioma that can form usually before we are even born that are all some type of 'vascular lesions/malformations' too. if this IS indeed within a vertebrae, it more than 'likely' is a hemangioma, but if not, and if no contrast was used to best define anything vascular in make up, that needs to be fully looked into for any actual arterial vessels in it. my hemangioma that was inside my spinal cord was said to be on my rad report as interpretted by the radiologist as what is called an AVM or arteriovenous malformation, which is pretty much like having an aneurysm inside the spinal cord. but only after they did an angiogram on it and it DID NOT 'light up' with the dye, my neuro rad who did that angio told me it was all venous fed like what a cavernous hemangioma just IS. all venous and NO arteries in it like AVM, so MY MRI was very wrong with THAT particular finding, also meaning the radiologist who interpreted my original films to MAKE that report was also wrong in his interpretation too. this is why she NEEDS to see an actual neurosurgeon too. they can also better define what this lesion actually just IS within itself. but with any vascular malformation, as i mentioned on this thread before, the actual LOCATION just matters sooo much as far as any real symptoms or IT generating pain. they themselves do not cause the pain, but what that sucker is impacting is what causes the pain/symptoms overall. so knowing the EXACT location would help tons here. while some angiomas will never ever cause any problems for some people depending upon where they are located and how 'active" they are, others will feel pain or just odd symptoms from them.

i am hoping your daughter IS obtaining her own copies of any and ALL testing reports? if not, she needs to get copies of what HAS been done already and any new testing that may be done as well(this also includes ANY labwork done too). it helps TONS to simply have all of your own test results in MANY ways.

just what "type' of doc does she have that jan 1 appt with? that timeframe is actually better than some she may have to wait for. esp any NEW patients? it is just the way it kind of 'is' with just about ANY type of real specialist we have to see out there. long waits. and sometimes monthS. so thats really not to bad. but i would also go where AZ mentioned too to the CC? i have never been there since i live in MN, but have heard tons of really good feedback here and other places from the people who have gone there for many different types of medical issues. it can't hurt to try them too.

hopefully they will be able to tell on the films even something that 'could' be causing her pain and symptoms quickly. just getting that hands on eval/testing that NSs just do which CAN show alot and tell alot depending upon her responses to certain types of hands on tests/stimuli will also help some. our bodies simply DO react in very particular ways depending upon just what the underlying problems are when connected to the CNS in most ways anyways. good luck, marcia
An X-ray can not show musce spasms. Only an examination and review of symptoms can suggest the possibility of spasm. It sounds like she's not advocating for herself.

As was.suggested, she should get all her test results( Films of x-ray, MRI, CT, etc) and the printed reports and office notes from. veryone she's seen and then seek out an urgent specialist appointment. Just going to a practice with many doctors means nothing. My knee surgeon's practice has 7 doctors but none of them do spine.

If she has a good PCP, take all the findings to him/her and say "where do I go from here" or take the bull by the horns and try to get into the Cleveland Clinic. over all the notes to see if the doctors/radiologists have any "possible" findings or are seeking to "r/o" which is rule out certain conditions. She can't sit back and wait for doctors to move her care forward, she needs to. Many conditions can cause muscle spasm. Perhaps they think she may have an autoimmune diagnosis like MS or Lupus BUT maybe it's as simple as a full neurological.or neurosurgical work up for spine conditions.

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