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Spinal Cord Disorders Message Board


Spinal Cord Disorders Board Index


Re: Acdf c-6-7
Feb 7, 2012
john, if you can obtain those inta op monitoring notes, it really WOULD tell/show whether or not anything got 'hit/lost' or there was ANY change at all with your actual neuro status when they lifted compression, or 'something else may have impacted too. these particular notes are usually the ONLY place this type of stuff even gets recorded in any real way shape or form. and the really great thing about these intra notes, vs the surgeons op notes is anything that just DID possibly get hit, or lost, or changed in there during your surgery IS recorded by the electrodes placed and TO a monitor that records them onto a screen then paper. so anything would or should just 'be there'. and that intra monitoring doc also has to make HIS little summary of what occured or did not occur during ones surgery too. so you would have the actual print out of that monitors changes(if any) plus the neurophysiatrists own op notes TELLING what he saw and how your body responded as well to certain "types' of changes in status, if something just DID occur.

with my spinal cord surgery, i lost a ton of innervation and yet NOTHING was actually written about this IN the 'neurosurgeons' required op notes, but could NOT for some sick reason get my hands on the INTRA notes right away, so had to play detective just to even FIND where they were, when by law, they just ARE supposed to just also be IN your central file just as with the surgeons op notes too. but those intra notes those were the ones i REALLY needed to prove my case to SSD when i was trying to get on it. god i ws soo pi****. i finally tracked down the monitoring docs main office and one of HIS staff got them out of storage for me or i probably never would have won SSD eventually.

if you were NOT warned about ANY potential losses pre op that could happen, then if anything did, the surgeon would have to record anything that just 'happened' in his op notes, but in my case, only becasue i WAS told pre op about losing the nerves to my feet and also my fine motor functions to my hands, because those nerves unfortuently were in the way to even GET to what had to come out of my cord. believe it or not, my surgeon was able to check off the lil box at the top of his op note report that stated 'everything went as 'expected'. except MY "expected" was to lose crap. and THAT part ssd did NOT know about, so according to THEM, everything with me was just wonderful, despite very in depth documentation of rehabbing back my leg in an actual rehab hosp, and my L hand was clawing too. but to them i guess they think thats like 'normal or something(they denied me the first round but without those intra monitoring notes)? blew me away actually. so i HAD to obtain those intra op notes to even HAVE "proof of impactful SCI injury" at all. but thats just the way ssd works.

but everything just related to your surgery just 'should be' in that central file. just call that hospital and ask for the medical records dept and they will take it from there and send out a release of information for you to sign and fill out first, then simply send it back. let me know when you get that release john so i can tell you just exactly what to just write on it to make certain you obtain ALL of the things YOU just are entitled to and need,K?

just curious if you actually woke up in recovery with the lower torso symptoms, esp the numbness? just wondering since it would usually take awhile before real solid swelling stated to develop in you depending upon just how long your surgery lasted? and they also DO slam you with steriods post op too just TO reduce any potential swelling as well. i had a ton of 'decadron' started immediately after my ACDF which also was at your level of surgery too.

seeing what your pre op MRI report had to say really would help here when you get that. just an FYI here too. having a post op MRI done like within that at least end of two month post op period would also show alot possibly now that trust me, will no longer be there after time passes if anything was actually done, or impacted your cord at all. you could still see where they went in to my actual spinal cord, along with a still tiny 'space' where my 4x6x8mms sized hemangioma had been sitting inside my cord too. and also what is mylomalacia that is kind of a 'process at this point where the cord tissue that is no longer 'good' but like scar tissue, actually granualizes this and then it gets totally removed by macrophages. so you would NOT see this on any MRI that gets done PAST around the two to three month mark. but it would be there, if there just IS any, right now.

after my one year follow up MRI, my cord looked absolutely 'pristine, with NONE of the stuff that had been there at my two month MRI? even that 'space" had filled in with 'something' too and no longer visable as 'space'. it 'does' try and kind of 'heal or right" itself, but the damage unbelievably can still be there as mine is still and my cord surgery was back in 2003. mine was just very deep with that particular surgery, but i was at least able to get my leg and some of my fine motor back in the L hand that took all THAT damage, but still have deficits that were not at all recoverable.

do you know off hand just how wide your spinal canal actually is? depending upon just how much real swelling you may have, that too can contribute to at least 'some' a bit extra compression in there too.

i would ask your NS at your next visit about possibly getting that new updated MRI at this point. at like that between month to two months, any actual swelling just 'should be' down, and if your numbness has gone, at least you know that THAT was causeing your numbness this whole time. but if this goes into the second month and that numbness has not at LEAST started to go away or get better, that alone WOULD dictate a NEED to get that MRI done to 'see' what may still just 'be there' that can as i stated above, actually go away over a pretty short period of time. and the cord just 'looks/appears' fine, but YOU have some level of underlying damage there to now deal with. but reading the intra notes would tell you alot too about ANY areas that may have been hit,and lost or hit, damaged, but came back as with my one motor nerve in my L leg did. my motor to my foot is at a lower velocity(and firing differently now) despite my insane spasticity in this now. but that one got hit and DID come back, just damaged, while a sensory in my R leg got hit and never came back. and this IS all recorded in my intra notes too.

is what you are doing at home with the treadmill and the other machine actually been okayed by your NS for you to even do yet john? you just always NEED to make certain that esp anything really physical is always good with the surgeon for YOUR overall level of healing and weeks post op too. doing certain activities before we are ready can just have very big consequences for us if we go beyond our set by surgeon boundries, or should take a fall. just making sure that you STAY safe here, thats all.

while swelling just 'could' be the cause of your lower torso symptoms, what i just cannot believe is that with this brand new symptom being there at all, he decided to discharge you home? they are just some pretty impactful types of post op symptoms to even try and accomodate when you have NEVER ever had to deal with total numbness and try to walk before, ya know what i mean?

i forgot to ask this. just exactly where does your numbness begin? is this like directly at or immediately under your level of surgery at the neck or does this begin further down? is this only one sided at ANY point or the whole entire area below? this really IS important to know.

never mind, i JUST reread your initial post john where you state the numbness is NOT right from the level of surgical impact but actually STARTS at the waist level?? while certain things ARE just possible when esp the 'inner cord' is involved and generating symptoms, something just does NOT 'sound right' about just where/how your numbness is starting considering, ya know? you just 'could' have a possible issue going on somewhere right AT where that numbness simply begins much further down that could be impacting both sides, like with a full 'central' issue of some kind impacting both of your sensory nerves at the very same time? i really DO think getting a FULL spinal MRI would help to either rule this in or out and also would check on the surgical area to see what is also now going on in there too.

while there just also can be very spefic 'types' of actual 'symdromes' that can impact the body surface areas in strange ways, it is just rather 'odd' unless very specific sensory nerves running thru the entire cord were impacted from that compression or damage was caused in some way and AT the surgical site. its just usually with spinal impact and even cord injury, the level right directly AT or below the level of impact is where 'normal' sensory loss/other symptoms would generally begin, and not with a really large body surface area being in between the impact area(and NO symptoms there) and where the sensory loss starts. this also can be one sided or both with cord injury.

JENNY? WEB? can you possibly help out here on this? i will have to do some more in depth checking here on this. neuroanatomy is such a learning experience. i am just wondering what actual spinal tracts were in the way or got impacted possibly too with that compression. i need to check my SCI info. my cord injury is also right at that c 8 nerve level that is where your impact to that pinkie is.

that pinkie? did you have ANY issues with that or ANY of your fingers pre op? that pinkie just is totally and completely innervated by the c 8 nerve(also the "ulnar") that lies without its own vertebrae(kind of a more 'free nerve" so to speak), and of course right under c 7 and the top of T 1. that would have had to have been hit or something 'done to it' in order for you to feel any sensory loss or impact at all. and THAT for all intents and purposes also should be in the intra op notes too if this or something actually impacted your nerve flow there(if swelling, it could have occured over time too unless you woke up in recovery with this). if nothing is written about that c 8 in the intra notes, then chances are, since the electrodes placed are what tells the tale here with ANY nerve impact, that the swelling is potentailly more responsible than a nerve hit.

but DO obtain any and all testing reports and also just call that hosp and get that ball rolling. also, after you are kind of 'done" like six weeks out or so, with this surgeon, also obtain ALL of his clinic visit notes he made about you too from HIM. those also contain alot of 'his overall impressions' of you and ANY potential damage and ongoing healing status too. i do this with every single surgery i have had done as well. but ALWAYS obtain any and ALL testing result reports of ANY kind, just so you can read thru things yourself, and also just 'have them' in your own files you keep at home too. they DO and can come in very handy in many different ways. but you just also DO have every right to have this type of info on yourself too.

just do also keep track of all of your symptoms kind of day by day and anything that just may pop in, or change in you too. little things, when it comes to having any real cord impact can really tell/mean alot. just be careful on that treadmill john. marcia





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