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Vaccination & Immunization Message Board

Vaccination & Immunization Board Index

This is a frustrating issue. I had my first vaccinated and my second recieved only the first round. By the time his second was due I had the worst gut feeling that it would be bad for him to say the least. So I went on the hunt.
I looked high and low and the research is there. There was one study done in a medical journal on the effects of vaccines and the corralation between everything from SIDS to autism. If you look at some of the vaccine boxes before they were required to change the process you'll note a chemical called thimerisol. I found out what it was....MERCURY!!!! I played it off and asked the nurse and she said there was no way that there would ever be mercury in a vaccine....IT'S DEADLY YA KNOW!!! Duh. Then I showed her the print out containing the definition of it from a medical journal, her face dropped!!
Now if they don't know, how is the public supposed to make an educated decision on what's best for there child. I can't list the exact sites or names of studies here, don't want troubles for breaking any rules.
But I researched for hours every day for almost a month before making my decision. The biggest study over seas stopped vaccinating kids until they were 18mos old and the death rate in children under 2 dropped almost 80%!!!! Can anyone explain why there's a correlation between the DTaP shot and the increased risk of SIDS in the first 3 days after the vaccine. Can someone tell my friend why she lost her daughter with in hours of her 3rd round when they're totally safe????
Why do you think the military is having probs with people who don't want the anthrax vaccine?? It's because they educated themselves and weighed what they felt were risks vs. benefit. For some, they still choose the vaccine, others opt against it. It's a personal choice....but if you look you will find the research.
Another interesting fact I found is that states do not legally mandate immunizations....but very few people know this because the info is not readily available. And the biggest reason is because if it is mandated as law, then the state is responsible for the possible bad out comes. If they make you think it's law and you don't question, you have no recourse because they'll say ultimately it was your decision.
I don't want to sway anyone either direction.....but I do feel the need to help people educate themselves on both sides and make the decision that best fits their situation.
I will have to check the sites first to make sure they don't have bulletin boards...I know that's one thing that prohibits listing, is there any more so I don't get in trouble?? I would love to provide the info..I believe people need to have all the info from both sides and choose from there.
As for the thimerisol, there is more out there than most know. It was prohibited in future production, but they did not require a recall of all the vaccinations on the shelf. I called the health department, several pediatricians and asked about the thimerisol..most didn't know what it was, so they grabbed the box and started reading...they swore they had the new batch, but there was still thimerisol.
My son more than likely will start his vaccinations at two years old, once the brain has formed the barrier that helps minimize reactions.
As far as concrete evidence, I don't believe it exists because every group has their own take on things and IMO have ways to tilt the scales a bit. That's why I searched sooo many places including the CDC website. I will check the ones I intitially checked and also make sure they're ok with the mods then would love to post them. And if possible have them put on a sticky. It may take me a couple days, but I will let you know what I find and if it's ok to post you'll see the link.
I'm also curious as to what seems to be a lot of hostility towards people who choose not to vaccinate or have doubts. I don't know if you're from the medical community or just not sure where to find all the info, but I assure you, most people who choose not to vaccinate do so only after researching it and speaking with their docs.
My ped worked at one of the top childrens hospitals and children were flown there from a tri-state area and she only saw 1-2 kids a month who contracted one of the illnesses "prevented" by vaccines and the rest were by kids who were vaccinated. My biggest problem is that people are lead to believe that their kids are 100% protected when even their own studies show otherwise.
I'm not exact on these number, but really close...about 80% of the cases of these diseases are fully vaccinated children....that makes me doubt the safety and validity of the vaccines.
I don't want to sway anyone either way, I just feel people shouldn't so blindly trust something just because it's been around for awhile. There's been many different cases of a "safe" medical treatment that turns out down the road to have been not safe at all.
I agree with you Winnie, it makes me crazy too. You have the right idea contacting your health department. They will give you the information you need.

As far as listening to these boards keep something in mind. Anybody can say whatever they want, whether it is true or not, and they are not responsible for fact checking what they say. Most of the websites that people who are antivaccination point to are nothing more then opinions. Look at websites put up by professional organizations Like the CDC, National Institutes of health, Medscape, your state or county department of health. See how whenever a professional makes a statement, it is referenced to some study. The name of the study, and journal of its' origin is given so you can evaluate the quality of the statements. Now look at most of the antivaccination websites. They are mostly run by parents who think they have been wronged. Or paramedical people who have a financial stake in continuing the scare. If they reference anything it is usually someone elses opinions, not research. They will push books written by seemingly important proffesionals. However real medical researchers do not write books, they write journal articles. I have requested many times on this board for someone to provide me with some current research from a peer reviewed medical journal backing up what they say. No one has yet done it. I suggested on this thread that if you had a fear of mercury poisoning from vaccines, then just request that you be allowed to make sure that the vaccine is thimerosol free, as all vaccines except influenza areare now produced without the mercury. They have been making them thimerosol free for alomost 5 years, so the vast majority, if not all, of the vaccinations do not have mercury.

I can happily debate the fallacy's of the argument about mercury toxicity causing things like autism. Mercury poisoning is very easliy distinguished from autism to any medical practitioner who knows what to look for. However I have pointed out that this debate is a waste of time because the vaccines now do not contain thimerosol.

If that is your fear you can rest.

As far as any Doctor telling you a vaccine is 100% safe and 100% effective, you will never hear a Doctor say that. Just as you will never hear a doctor say that giving a child baby asprin is 100% safe. Medicine doesn't work that way. Anybody who says it does is misleading you.

Also the vaccine is not 100% effective. Tell me what medicine is! Studies show that the Measles vaccine is about 95% effective. The statistics that the poster above you gave are very misleading. It might be true that 80% of the people who get sick of childhood diseases in this country have been vaccinated. I don't believe this is true and I would want to know where the poster got this figure from...but let's just consider it as being true. Take a group of 1000 students exposed to measles. Out of those Consider 5 people come down with measles. And 4 out of those 5 people have been vaccinated(that is the 80% that the poster quoted). Vaccination rates in a school would be arround 99% because of the vaccine requirements. So out of those 1000 students, 990 of them were vaccinated and 10 were not. Now compare vaccinated to unvaccinated. 4 people who got sick were part of the 990 that were vaccinated. So 4 out of 990 is less than one half of one percent (.40%). Only one person that was unvaccinated got sick. But he is one of ten, so he represents 10% of the unvaccinated population. What this shows is that more people who got sick were vaccinated, but the rate of infection was 25X greater(.4% compared to 10%) in the unvaccinated population. So when antivaccination people say that more vaccinated people get sick than unvaccinated, they are being misleading, either intentionally, or because they are repeating something that they heard. Again I am open to differing views, please just address the objections that I make with evidence.
I whole heartedly agree on doing your own research. What is irritating however is the insistance that the only real proof is for the vaccinations. I did not look at just one site, nor did I just take someone's word on it. Some of the information came from my son's pediatrician!!!
She is the one who helped me research much of what I started on. There are so many ways you can go with it. As of yet I have not found a double blind yes the info you get is usually going to be tilted in one way or the other, that's why you need to do a lot of research. Some of what I found were incidental findings....meaning they weren't looking for a specific correlation, however found one in the process.
As far as not responding to one of the above posters with medical facts I already said I would find the sites again and clear it with moderators...that is not a refusal on my behalf, as I have nothing to hide...and honestly don't care for what seems like the insinuation that I have misrepresented any information or am lying and refuse to back it up. This is a board for opinions and experiences and what makes it successful is giving many different views on issues at hand and allowing an individual to make the decision they feel is best.
I am curious however, why is it that it's so important to force an opinion on someone who is merely trying to share some info learned while trying to make an informed decision? It seems like some are threatened by the fact that someone can think outside of the medical community. Just for the record I believe in holistic and Western medicine. I don't think there's a black and white's a personal choice and no one should be felt they have to make a certain decision because it's the popular one, they need to make an informed decision which means looking at all information involved.
As for the mom who is confused as to what to do.. I can relate. I had my first vaccinated and yes he's fine. My problem came when I was set to have my second child's second round of vaccinations and had that gut feeling mom's get that said something wasn't right. I spoke with his doctor and that's where the hunt begins. You need to do your own research and not just a couple of places...I researched site after site for almost 2 wks straight before making my decision. Let me know what you find and understand that there's probably going to be more fear involved because of what you learn. One of the things that got me was that my youngest was enrolled in a study to combine some vaccines and the info packet I was handed is something that is not given in general. The hardest part for me to swallow was that they could not ensure that the cow's that were used to create the vaccine were not from other countries or at risk for mad cow disease and such. Excuse me??? You can't tell me where the heck this stuff came from and you just put it in my kid????? Ask your pediatrician if they have the info...don't know if it is there and you just have to ask or if I just got it because of the study.
Good luck and you will make the right decision because it is your baby and your choice. Listen to the voice inside and you'll know what's right for you.
[I] I am curious however, why is it that it's so important to force an opinion on someone who is merely trying to share some info learned while trying to make an informed decision? It seems like some are threatened by the fact that someone can think outside of the medical community. [/I]

First off I would like to say that I am not attacking you. If my posts have come off as any other way I apologize. What I am trying to do is separate assertions made by some people that are presented as fact, against those that have scientific validity through experimentation and research. Many of the antivaccination posters ( and I do not intend this as a condemnation of you) post statements as scientific fact. Most if not all of these statements are not backed up with any research or validity. But the frequency of these statements is enough to scare people. That is why I emplore people to research on sites that reference their statements. I know no matter what I say some people will refuse to change their minds. And that is their right. I only wish to educate those who are looking for answers.

[I]As of yet I have not found a double blind study[/I]

This is probably true, but this does not make the other studies less accurate. A double blind study would entail using a group of children given a placebo instead of the real vaccine, and then following them around for years. No doctor would do this because the risk to these children for contracting the diseases would be too great. This would be an unethical study. What epidemiologists have done is look at populations where vaccine compliance has changed over time, and correlated that to rates of problems such as autism, SIDS, Asthma etc. What they have found is no correlation between rates of vaccination and incidence of problems (you can check this and look at the actuall studies at the links I previously suggested). This suggests that there is no causal relationship involved. Some of these studies involved hundreds of thousands of children.

Finally, I am asked why I should care. Everybody should care. Decreases in vaccination rates increases diseases in both vaccinated and unvaccinated children. The CDC did a study, and the conclusion of it was that for every 1%decrease of vaccination rates, there is an increase in risk rates of 60% to children that are vaccinated, and 600% for those who are not.
So, people that do not vaccinate their children put mine at greater risk.
sailmaven...let me just say...i love your posts....sometimes if it wasnt for you i dont think i would sleep at night!!! LOL and you are right so far no one has provided real concrete evidence....and the thermosol is my one real concern....i have not yet got to contact the health dept. but i plan too before her next vacc. but i know all the nurses who work there and they all have young children all who were vaccinated on time as babies and my feelings are ...they work around vaccines all day they know whats in them and they swear by them and while i was pregnant they always reminded me that when my baby was born to get her vaccinated on time...i feel that they would never vaccinate there children if they felt it was something that would harm them...and they say they do feel so strong about it because they see all the people who were not vaccinated with the diseases that could have easily been avoided (in most cases) with a vaccination....and thank you again sailmaven....keep up the good work ;)
"and another thing you are right about ...we should care that others dont vaccinate because as you said it does put our children at higher risk...and in my state you still must vaccinate for school and some daycare centers as well, i am not sure i would want my child in a center or school where some children were not vaccinated...its just to dangerous"

Hey Winnie, If your kid is Vaccinated, then why would you worry about other kids who have not been vaccinated?????????????????????? Would you actually inject something into your child that doesn't work???? Why vac. if it doesn't work????? Why would you worry about your kid getting sick if your kid is 'vaccinated'????????? Isn't your kid supposed to be 'immune' if they had a vaccination????
Ok..where have I been? It's exciting to see so much debate. A couple of thoughts come to mind. I believe Angel mentioned (who posts things that help me sleep at night) such hostility towards we questioners, delayers, hits me right in the heart. My baby is my life and my choices are not because I'm ignorant or anti-establishment. I have a full library of pro and con (cause it is hard to find neutral authors)..I have spent hours on the internet, hours with parents touched by this issue (before moving) I always keep saying. Some posts confirm my worst fears: you will not befriend me or my daughter because of my choice to wait (maybe 6 months, maybe 12, maybe indefinitely) I should move to a remote location, home-school my daughter and avoid social situations.
Another thought/ (cause I really do not know) does the medical community or health departments or the CDC explain the autism rise which I agree could ALMOST be a tragedy of the past. Better diagnostic games..soda...MTV? I believe the first two hold alot of the answer. I'm not asking to belabor the autism issue but what's next???? There are more and more vaccines starting younger and younger with no end in sight and no guidelines to "retire" a vaccine when it has been successfully vaccinated for (perhaps polio falls into that) When will enough be enough? When will things like Rubella and Hepatitis B be reccommended for teens or college entrance instead of infants and toddlers? When will we really see that infant vaccination wanes even with boosters and maybe some diseases, which are more problematic in young adults, teens & adults be started at 5-7 yrs of age. When will it be admitted that some milder toddler/child diseases are now showing up in older groups where they are often more serious? (chickenpox could eventually join this group)
When do we look closer at who finances studies?
I have definitely learned that while I come here for support maybe like other moms that are in tears at the end of the day because of their choices either way I will do everything I can to no longer post anecdote, conjecture or opinion I will make an effort to put my money where my mouth is and cite reference or study.
Question..if I find something in a book with a reference can I cite author or reference??? I will check with mods too.
Sleep well,
I am waiting for my husband to get home so while I will regret it at 6 am when Alex gets up..I want to write. An Aspergers diagnosis must have been hard..and glad to hear it ended up being off-base...I'm not "glad" you can understand the fear first-hand..but I'm sure your professsion plus life-experience can help us each and every one of us has experience in different ways.
One other thing is coming to mind. Ironically, just like me, one of my mom's closest friends, had a son (in 1974) who was autistic.Now we, 3 decades later share about that....My mom & her friend were in their late 20s when they had us...we were vaccinated fully (total sidenote). But Ron was always..different..he never looked at us..spun objects or himself alot...
I didn't know or understand then....My point to get there in 10 words or less is that I was unaware that the regression aspect I described above was normal to an autism diagnosis......Now, yes, then, no...Ron was born that way.. he never regressed..he never recognized us or at least communicated that he did.. That I believe is a truer example of "organic" autism. The arugument I've heard, read of, is that this "regressive autism"...(this is not an official term) can possibly be attributed to cumulative mercury exposure + genetics+ other factors .So this is a little more of my story. "Matt" the boy I worked with was different.....Knew us...but lost us.
It's so easy for me to talk about kids, autism and the last several years.
I am gonna go out on an unscientific limb and say that the rates of Autism, ADD,ADHD,PDD..will decrease now that vaccines can be made without thimerosal.
We in this board area aren't looking to blame...we are only just beginning to vaccinate, or wait...thimerosal can hopefully be put aside for the we can zero in on other issues concerning the current vaccination schedule.
well i'm new to this discussion but not to the topic. i would like to say that for those who believe vaccinations are completely safe, please do not assume that those who have a great concern over their safety are reading wrong information or being misled by their own intuitions. there is PLENTY of documentation of the FDA's relationship with the pharmaceutical industry and the amazing way drugs, vaccines and other such things are approved at the same time FDA authorities receive stock options or even positions with the company they are supposed to be evaluating and regulating. this is a deadly trend, money in exchange for safety.

i would also like to say that for people who feel that those concerned with the safety of vaccines have been reading "propaganda" regarding the dangers of vaccinations, the same could be said for information coming from those who financially benefit from approval of prescription drugs and vaccinations, so please, keep an open mind. information and research that is documented by doctors and agencies not in any way tied to the industry through grants, employment or any other benefit, financial or otherwise, might actually contain truth.

as stated before, it is essential to keep your head on straight and not take everything at face value. however, i would say there is enough evidence and information available from people and doctors who have personally experienced (either with their own child or patients) negative, dangerous side effects that can not be refuted by drug companies who profit to produce vaccinations and the FDA authorities who profit to approve them, that it should absolutely raise concern.

it is not difficult and is also highly profitable for industry and FDA executives to silence any naysayer with insults of extremism or lack of education or knowledge. we have been trained for decades to take what is handed down from such offices and "authorities" as gospel truth. just as people have been cautioned and encouraged to research and think intelligently and honestly before losing their wits about vaccine safety, the same should be cautioned and encouraged to those who eat the industry reports and information like the bread of life.

do you really think drug companies care about the safety of your children for their own profit? not a chance. it's a twist they call "the greater good" - if vaccines harm thousands of children through irritation, developmental disabilities (i personally have a friend who will be in an electric wheel chair and will also receive government stipends his entire life because a vaccination destroyed his chances of developing normally, which is how my search for knowledge and information began), even death, the industry considers is t worthwhile risk in light of those who MIGHT *potentially* become infected with a disease, virus or bacteria.

i am not 100% against vaccines, however i think it incredibly irresponsible and irrational of the medical community to assault the underdeveloped immune system of an infant, who already is receiving passively aquired immunity if breast fed. and at this point children are receiving a mind blowing number of antigens into their system that they may not ever be at risk for. if vaccinations should be necessary, at least require them at an older age, when the immune, skeletal and cerebral systems are all significantly more developed.

an interesting note is that a panel discussion approval for yet another pertussis vaccination, more than one doctor addressed the issue that antibodies are not even understood for their purpose or action. to assume immunity and protection based on the presence of antibodies after an injection, and to blindly assume the safety of a vaccine because it provokes the presence of antibodies, is incredibly irresponsible. i believe that our children are the test for safety and efficacy of vaccinations, and time will tell if they are safe or effective. i think time is beginning to tell as the number of concerned citizens and parents rises.

another thought that utterly confuses me is the assumption of immunity and safety when vaccines deliberately bypass the first four natural systems of defense: the skin, the mucous membranes, the gut lymphiods and the lymphatic system, depositing antigens directly into the blood stream. i find this particularly foolish and offensive in the case of infants.

finally i think there is significant evidence concerning the correlation between thimerosal and autism. we are told that autism is genetic/hereditary and has been around for generations and centuries. i do believe that we have the highest number of cases of autism today, present in children and adolescents, early teens and adulthood, than any other generation, and the children born in the past ten years have received more vaccinations than any other generation. Also, there is a significant lack in numbers of adults with autism. While there certainly are adults with autism, there is a staggering difference in number of cases between the age groups. Also, there is a clear, significant lack of children (and adults for that matter) with autism in the Amish population. At the time of an article which some or all of you may have read, a journalist travelled to amish communities in search of autistic amish children. theoritically he should have found around 200, and that's a conservative estimate, eliminating generic disorders that are similar to autism. he found three. one was a girl adopted from china who had received a vaccination schedule before she left and the second was one of the few amish children who had been vaccinated after the parents were pressured by public health officials. the third case could not be located. when asked if there were any other cases of autism anywhere in the amish community, the families replied there was no way there would be without them knowing, even though the amish communities are spread all throughout the united states. if you don't believe they could possibly know of every case, watch the movie "the Devil's Playground", a documentary on rumspringa. it becomes very clear how tight the amish community is. families have directories that are regularly updated on every family in the amish community, children's names, ages, location, and family information. i truly believe those families were correct in saying that if there were any other cases of autism in the amish community, they would know about it.

hypothetically, if there are other cases and the families happen to be ashamed or try to keep their family in seclusion (which goes against everything the amish stand for (working and living in community and helping out every person and family) ) it is HIGHLY unlikely that the number of children that SHOULD have been found with autism, if it is not correlated to vaccinations, could have been supressed and hidden from the rest of the community.
diseases come and diseases go. there was no vaccine for scarlet fever, yet it disappeared on its own. the diseases were declining greatly right before the vaccines were introduced. improved sanitation played a role in the reduction of disease. the reason there are so many diseases (which the children often die from) in third world countries is because these children are not healthy to begin with. they are malnourished and they are drinking water which is contaminated with fecal matter.

from the cdc, here are the current number of diseases in the U.S. for 2005.
Rubella 6
Measles 22
Mumps 125
Diptheria 0
Tetanus 10
Pertussis 7,950
Polio 0

The only large outbreaks have been whooping cough, and the problem is mostly that immunity from the vaccine doesn't last very long. i wonder how many of these cases are in the fully vaccinated? my friend's 2 young children, both fully vaccinated, caught pertussis. same with a nurse i know. her 2 fully vaccinated daughters caught it as well. yet the doctor told the nurse that her children didn't have pertussis because "the vaccinated don't get it."

i know lots of unvaccinated children. they're not running around spreading disease. my 2 children are unvaccinated and have not had any diseases, although 1 child may have had chicken pox, but it was very mild. they have never been on antibiotics and they have no physical or mental health issues.

i attribute extended breastfeeding, along with healthy eating, no fruit juice, no white bread, little sugar, no vaccines and exercise to their good health.
when i hear people say that we are being selfish for not getting our children vaccinated, all i have to say is that we all do what's best for our own child. most parents believe the benefits outweigh the risks, so they get their children vaccinated. if they didn't believe it, then they wouldn't get them vaccinated. i'm raising healthy children. i'm saving taxpayers' money because my children don't need meds or hospitalization. how is that selfish?

i would like to know why we're vaccinating against diseases like the flu, chicken pox, mumps and measles. ask any old-timer; they'll tell you they had these diseases and it was no big deal. we're told that approximately 36,000 die every year from the flu. what they don't tell you is that the number is more like 250 because all the other deaths (mainly in the elderly) are from pneumonia. when treating diseases, where parents and sometimes doctors go wrong is that they give the child aspirin or tylenol, which can turn a mild illness into a deadly one. if people knew how to treat these diseases properly, it wouldn't be such a big deal. for instance, measles destroys vitamin a, so if you're already low in it, you could get very sick. supplementation w/vitamin a for measles is important. pertussis in children can be reduced in severity if you use homeopathy or vitamin c supplementation. if you have a good naturopath, they can help your child get through an illness with relative ease.

it's not just the mercury that's the problem with vaccines. they also contain aluminum, which is a neurotoxin, and they contain contain formaldehyde, which has been found to cause cancer in humans. and has anyone checked the VAERS database recently? there are an average of 110 vaccine-related deaths per year in babies age 0 to 1. keep in mind that according to the fda, only 10 percent of doctors actually report vaccine reactions/deaths, so the number could be even higher. i'm so tired of hearing doctors say "it's just a coincidence." how can there be thousands of "coincidences?" vaccines are not properly tested for safety. anyone remember how the government defended a dangerous pertussis vaccine for more than a decade before switching to a safer version? i've met several mothers whose children have had immediate reactions to the vaccines. reactions are more common than we're led to believe.

re thimerosal (mercury) anyone with all pistons firing knows that injecting mercury into babies and children is stupid. 6-month-old children who were administered the shots on schedule suffered mercury exposures 87 times the government safety standards. autism has gone from 1 in 10,000 in the 80's to 1 in 166 in 2005. to say it's purely genetic is ridiculous. there's no such thing as a genetic epidemic. and the increase is not due to better diagnosis. ask any special ed teacher who's been teaching for at least 10 years. they will tell you they've seen a huge increase in children w/adhd, learning disabilities, autism and aspergers (1 in 6 children) mercury is known to cause these problems. some children simply cannot excrete mercury properly. i hear the same story over and over again. the child was developing normally, meeting all his milestones, then around a year and a half, the child gets vaccinated and gets a high fever, becomes listless and screams for hours. a few days or a couple weeks later, the child stops talking, loses eye contact, is always sick, etc. i guess it's just another "coincidence."

i had to laugh when the cdc (i believe) said they were removing the mercury from the vaccines to make "a safe vaccine even safer." if it's already safe, then why did they remove the mercury? well, they almost removed the mercury. Some Flu, Tetanus, DT and Meningococcal still contain it. always ask to see the inserts.

it's strange how china and africa had a very low incidence of autism, that is until the U.S. recently started shipping vaccines with the full amount of mercury in them. now they've got millions of cases of autism.

be sure to check out this recent article: New Autism Cases Level Off in State, Data Show. Some say the slowdown may be linked to the removal of mercury from infants' vaccines.

oh, re the denmark study;

if the cdc wants everyone to get vaccinated, then they need to make safer vaccines. i spoke to a mother who told me that when she took her child to the er, the nurse told her she had seen a lot of kids with post-vaccinal problems.

has anyone noticed how sick the kids of today are? asthma and diabetes have skyrocketed. arthritis in children used to be virtually unheard of. now more and more children are being diagnosed with it. my friend's child has it. vaccines may be wiping out diseases, but they may also be creating new ones.

i encourage everyone to read Fouad Yazbak's Speech online.
While the vaccinated for diseases would not be considered fatal to a healthy normal child, children like my son who are immunosupressed,they would be.There are so many many people(including children) who are immunosuppressed from certain conditions/diseases and the treatments of certain conditions that ARE at much higher risk from those that are not vaccinated.

I live in MN and we just had our fourth case of polio confirmed's here and other thought to be gone,diseases and will be back,it is just a matter of IS those of us who have had our children vaccinated that make it possible for you who don't to even have that choice.children are at risk just waking up in the morning,once they step outside that door,the risks go up.when they get to school, the risks go up cannot possibly protect your children from everything but if there is something offered that would reduce the risks to your child of contracting certain diseases,I just don't understand why you would not do it.i have yet to see any "real" proof that all of the children who are ending up with certain conditions/diseases were actually coming from any vaccination.yes,there ARE some children who have had horrible reactions to the vaccines,but everytime your child or any adult puts anything, a medication or even food into their bodies,depending on the physiology of that particular persons make up,they could react to it in some way,that is just the way things are.

i know this IS a very touchy subject for some,but actually hearing that there are(so far) four confirmed cases of a disease that was thought to be pretty much non existant just a few years ago,really should at the very least,cause you to rethink that decision to not vaccinate your children,honestly.The children(this actually started in an infant)who now have polio were ALL not vaccinated.There will be many more cases coming as this is actually in an Amish community who do not believe in vaccintations.So you can only imagine just what is going to happen there over the next few months,at least.Just something i really thought you should all be aware of.FB

Interesting site here. Nothing to do with autism but in general are vaccinated kids healthier or ....
Why is there no comparison study done? It would be so easy to lay all qualms to rest. There are thousand of unvaccinated kids in every age available already.

[quote]Is infant immunization a risk factor for childhood asthma or allergy?

Kemp T, Pearce N, Fitzharris P, Crane J, Fergusson D, St George I, Wickens K, Beasley R.

Department of Medicine, Wellington School of Medicine, New Zealand.

The Christchurch Health and Development Study comprises 1,265 children born in 1977. The 23 children who received no diphtheria/pertussis/tetanus (DPT) and polio immunizations had no recorded asthma episodes or consultations for asthma or other allergic illness before age 10 years; in the immunized children, 23.1% had asthma episodes, 22.5% asthma consultations, and 30.0% consultations for other allergic illness. Similar differences were observed at ages 5 and 16 years. These findings do not appear to be due to differential use of health services (although this possibility cannot be excluded) or con-founding by ethnicity, socioeconomic status, parental atopy, or parental smoking.

PMID: 9345669 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] [/quote]
More than 2 billion persons worldwide have been infected with the hepatitis B virus at some time in their lives. Of these, 350 million are life-long carriers of the disease and can transmit the virus to others. One million of these people die each year from liver disease and liver cancer.

National studies have shown that about 12.5 million Americans have been infected with hepatitis B virus at some point in their lifetime. One and one quarter million Americans are estimated to have chronic (long-lasting) infection, of whom 20 percent to 30 percent acquired their infection in childhood. Chronic hepatitis B virus infection increases a person's risk for chronic liver disease, cirrhosis, and liver cancer. About 5,000 persons will die each year from hepatitis B-related liver disease resulting in over $700 million medical and work loss costs.

The number of new infections per year has declined from an average of 450,000 in the 1980s to about 80,000 in 1999. The greatest decline has occurred among children and adolescents due to routine hepatitis B vaccination.

Infants and children who become infected with hepatitis B virus are at highest risk of developing lifelong infection, which often leads to death from liver disease (cirrhosis) and liver cancer. Approximately 25 percent of children who become infected with life-long hepatitis B virus would be expected to die of related liver disease as adults.

CDC estimates that one-third of the life-long hepatitis B virus infections in the United States resulted from infections occurring in infants and young children. About 16,000 - 20,000 hepatitis B antigen infected women give birth each year in the United States. It is estimated that 12,000 children born to hepatitis B virus infected mothers were infected each year before implementation of infant immunization programs. In addition, approximately 33,000 children (10 years of age and younger) of mothers who are not infected with hepatitis B virus were infected each year before routine recommendation of childhood hepatitis B vaccination.



Diphtheria is a serious disease caused by a bacteria. This germ produces a poisonous substance or toxin which frequently causes heart and nerve problems. The death rate is 5 percent to 10 percent, with higher death rates (up to 20 percent) in the very young and the elderly.

In the 1920's, diphtheria was a major cause of illness and death for children in the U.S. In 1921, a total of 206,000 cases and 15,520 deaths were reported. With vaccine development in 1923, new cases of diphtheria began to fall in the U.S., until in 2001 only two cases were reported.

Although diphtheria is rare in the U.S., it appears that the bacteria continues to get passed among people. In 1996, 10 isolates of the bacteria were obtained from persons in an American Indian community in South Dakota, none of whom had classic diphtheria disease. There has been one death reported in 2000 from clinical diphtheria caused by a related bacteria.

There are high rates of susceptibility among adults. Screening tests conducted since 1977 have shown that 41 percent to 84 percent of adults 60 and over lack protective levels of circulating antitoxin against diphtheria.

Although diphtheria is rare in the U.S., it is still a threat. Diphtheria is common in other parts of the world and with the increase in international travel, diphtheria and other infectious diseases are only a plane ride away. If we stopped immunization, the U.S. might experience a situation similar to the Newly Independent States of the former Soviet Union. With the breakdown of the public health services in this area, diphtheria epidemics began in 1990, fueled primarily by persons who were not properly vaccinated. From 1990-1999, more than 150,000 cases and 5,000 deaths were reported.

Tetanus (Lockjaw)

Tetanus is a severe, often fatal disease. The bacteria that cause tetanus are widely distributed in soil and street dust, are found in the waste of many animals, and are very resistant to heat and germ-killing cleaners. From 1922-1926, there were an estimated 1,314 cases of tetanus per year in the U.S. In the late 1940's, the tetanus vaccine was introduced, and tetanus became a disease that was officially counted and tracked by public health officials. In 2000, only 41 cases of tetanus were reported in the U.S.

People who get tetanus suffer from stiffness and spasms of the muscles. The larynx (throat) can close causing breathing and eating difficulties, muscles spasms can cause fractures (breaks) of the spine and long bones, and some people go into a coma, and die. Approximately 20 percent of reported cases end in death.

Tetanus in the U.S. is primarily a disease of adults, but unvaccinated children and infants of unvaccinated mothers are also at risk for tetanus and neonatal tetanus, respectively. From 1995-1997, 33 percent of reported cases of tetanus occurred among persons 60 years of age or older and 60 percent occurred in patients greater than 40 years of age. The National Health Interview Survey found that in 1995, only 36 percent of adults 65 or older had received a tetanus vaccination during the preceding 10 years.

Worldwide, tetanus in newborn infants continues to be a huge problem. Every year tetanus kills 300,000 newborns and 30,000 birth mothers who were not properly vaccinated. Even though the number of reported cases is low, an increased number of tetanus cases in younger persons has been observed recently in the U.S. among intravenous drug users, particularly heroin users.

Tetanus is infectious, but not contagious, so unlike other vaccine-preventable diseases, immunization by members of the community will not protect others from the disease. Because tetanus bacteria are widespread in the environment, tetanus can only be prevented by immunization. If vaccination against tetanus were stopped, persons of all ages in the U.S. would be susceptible to this serious disease.


part 3

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