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Vaccination & Immunization Message Board

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Just to clarify - I am pro-vaccination. I am up-to-date on all my shots, and even though I don't have any kids, if I did I would make sure they get all their shots.

The risk of an adverse reaction (type 1 hypersensitivity) is quite low. Usually if the patient is getting a certain shot for the first time (first flu shot, or first battery of vaccinations), I usually insist that the patient stay in the office for 15 minutes for observation (any anaphylatic reaction will most likely occur during this time period). In terms of vaccination causing Autism, I have yet to see any concrete evidence. The original report linking Autism and MMR vaccine came from a small study (small sample size) asking parents of autistic kids when they first noticed that something was wrong. Subsequent studies (larger sample size) have failed to reproduce the same results. Last year, the original researcher, Andrew Wakefield, published in the journal Lancet that there is no link. That is how scientific research works. Peer-review journals and repeatable work. I like to practice evidence-based medicine as much as possible, and I also have a background in scientific research, so I feel totally comfortable telling concern parents that there is no link between Autism and vaccination

For more information you can look up these studies:
Taylor B et al, Autism and measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association. The Lancet 1999; 353:2026-29

Hviid A et al, Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism. JAMA 2003;290:1763-1766

Wakefield AJ et al. lleal-lymphoid- nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children. Lancet 1998;351:637-41.

That last reference is to the original article where Wakefield claim that there is a link.

There are other factors too that I usually don't have time to convey to parents. You have to remember a little history. A generation or two ago, kids with autisms were not generally seen in public. Some were sent to Mental Institutions (and the family never discussed it afterwards). Epidemiological records of the numbers of autism (or down syndrome or fragile x) weren't well recorded (if recorded at all). To claim a higher rate of autism now compare to previous generation is a little misleading.

Polio is a devastating disease. There is no cure for it. No amount of herbal supplements or vitamin C can help. Rubella (german measles) is generally a mild illness. But if you are pregnant and get rubella, it can frequently cause complications, such as miscarriages, stillbirth, or congenital rubella syndrome (CRS). In 1964, a Rubella pandemic caused over 12 million infections, resulting in 11,000 fetal losses, and 20,000 cases of CRS in infants (common symptoms of CRS include hearing loss, developmental delays, growth retardation, cardiac and ocular defects). (source: Orenstein WA, Bart KJ, Hinman AR, et al. The opportunity and obligation to eliminate rubella from the United States. JAMA 1984;251:1988-1994. )

The vaccine was made available in 1969 (also around the time when mandatory childhood vaccination started). Since then, there has been no rubella epidemic. Incidence of Rubella in the US is estimated at 0.1/100,000 population (192 cases). (source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Rubella and congenital rubella syndrome_United States, January 1, 1991-May 7, 1994. MMWR 1994;43:391, 397-401.)

Anyway, my $0.02. I'm tired and sleepy :)

do not register with a healthcare professional title, or reveal or display your current or future healthcare profession, in any way (including, saying you have patients). The boards are to be used for PEER support only. Healthcare titles lend undue weight to what is to be only your opinion. Members may share health opinions and advice as PEERS.[/B]
[I][........just a question...I have a feeling you were on this board under a different name not too long ago...that person has since disappeared. If it is you, I can see why the threads went the way they did, because of the profession, but if this is you, this "persona" is much better suited.[/I]

Hi Angel!
I haven't been around for awhile. This is the first time I have been on the board for a long time so I got a chuckle out of your post. I belive you were talking about me. And I do agree that Group theory has done an excellent job. You are also correct that my profession is why I belive so strongly the way I do. I see vaccinations from a different angle. I treat the geriatric patients who have been living with the results of these diseases for most of their lives. I told a wonderful woman yesterday about these discussions and she became quite agitated at the possibility of people not vaccinating their children. She lives with post polio syndrome, and every day since she was a child she transfers from her bed to her wheelchair and back again. She has a large amount of pain from the joint contractures.

As far as Wakefield is concerned. His study has been mostly discredited. It was based on just 12 Autisic children. ANd no other researcher has been able to reproduce his findings. Furthermore, in a subsequent study by him, it was determined that waht he was seeing was not actually meeasles in the gut.

thats my 2 cents

have a nice day

do not register with a healthcare professional title, or reveal or display your current or future healthcare profession, in any way (including saying you have patients). The boards are to be used for PEER support only. Healthcare titles lend undue weight to what is to be only your opinion. Members may share health opinions and advice as PEERS.[/B]
Hi Sailmaven, yup, you're right. Thought it was you. I do understand your concerns completely. Where I was being rubbed the wrong way was the fact that I don't feel we are told enough to make educated decisions. I do realize that doctors go to school for this, but I feel that some assume that the lay people can't grasp the concepts, nor make educated decisions. I do still think that vaccinations are important, I just feel that the drug companies are saccrificing the well-being of our children, to keep costs down and profits up. It just doesn't seem right.

They have learned so much in the last century and to think that stuff previously "known" to be safe, only to find out it wasn't, is bad enough. But IMO, when they know that something could be and is, toxic, to keep using it because it's the cheapest way to produce it, is wrong. There is so much in life, not just medicine, that could be done for the greater good and is done in such a way that it causes many pain. I've seen many instances of this and that's where I start to show fangs.

I know you only mean to show the importance of this issue, but I also strongly think that at some point, the medical community is going to have to give all sides and trust that we'll make the right decision. Most of the people who posted here are just trying to sort things out, think out loud and hear from others. It's awful to be a parent and know that you are solely responsible for that little person and what you decide may adversely affect their lives or worse. That's why so many of us are so passionate about things. Like I said, I believe that there should be a dual approach to treating peoples health. I believe herbs are a great alternative for keeping healthy, but also feel that there's no fool proof answer to anything in life.

I do understand the reservations of disclosing all the ins and outs, because humans can be odd creatures, but at some time we have to be responsible for our well-being and our children's. Most parents would never deliberately endanger their children, but when you do look at this type of issue, you are scared, and with knowledge...comes more fear!! LOL We just don't like feeling like something is being hidden from us... afterall, why hide it, if it's totally safe??? In terms of safety, it may be very safe, but when facts are hidden, we start to wonder the why of it all. That's what most people are probably upset about. All these years, not only are we lead to believe that it is absolute law, but we're told there is no risk involved with getting them, only to find out's just a tough choice.

I am, however, thrilled to have both of you here. I hope I didn't offend you Sailmaven, I just get growly when I feel like I have to prove myself, just to have an opinion... deep rooted childhood stuff!! LOL That's all on the depression board!! LOL I do appreciate all the views here and think that if we can keep the conversations more along this type of communication we could accomplish sooo many things. This type of feel it's got now is what is truly conducive to learning. When people feel like they are being forced to a certain decision, they turn their backs, quit listening and refuse to listen, no matter how good the info or how smart the person is that's sharing it. The best way to educate people and share your belief is by just what's been done on this thread. It makes people open to all the advice/info/opinions and then they can process it and absorb it over time. Then is when they will make the decision that they feel is best. As I said before, people are stupid creatures at times and will run a hundred miles in another direction, just becuase someone told us it wasn't a good idea.

Any how, turning into a run-on sentence. Glad to see you back. If you're ever up for a spin in the rubber room, hop on the depression board!! LOL Have a good night children................Angel
My son had all his 2 month shots. DTP, HIB, Polio and PCV I think were the shots he was given. It's been such a long time since the shots were given, and I have a bunch of his stuff including his vaccination reconds in that box. The box is in a closet very high up and I can't get to it with out my hubby and right now is not the time to bring up to him to bring the box down and make him remember and relive a very bad time in our lives. We live with this everyday, as time has passed is has gottin easier to deal with. We spend our time taking care of the other kids and try to forget that horrible day, which btw is not very easy. My hubby never really spoke about the whole thing, He kind of keep to himself on the most part and dealt with me and trying to keep me from completely going off the deep end. To this day if I bring up my son and started speaking about him, DH will listen and not say anything, but the look on his face says a million words. The last time I had my DH bring the box down with all my sons stuff in it, he was really down for several days, he was very hard to cheer up. With this baby on the way, it is not the time to dredge up bad memories, if you know what I mean.

Nyxin, this is the hardest choice to make. Only YOU and your DH can make the choice to vaccinate or not.

All I can tell you, is go with what your heart and gut feeling tells you. I personally wish I would have listened to mine 10 yrs ago. Don't get me wrong, I never had a bad feeling or bad gut feeling about vaccinating my daughter, like I did with my son. But for me and DH we just can't go though that again. That is our choice and noone can make the decision for us. You can get all the advice and opinions you want, but when it come right down to it, It is your choice, and a tough one at that.

I don't vaccinate my kids, but I get alot of crap from people who believe that I should. Which make my decision even harder at times. I have people and Dr.'s on my butt all the time, saying "you should vaccinate your kids... you are going to harm your kids if you don't... what happens if they get this or that all b/c you don't vaccinate?, you could be preventing are a bad don't deserve to have children if you don't take care of them with vaccinations!" and things like that I hear all the time from people who know we dont vaccinate. This is one of the toughest decisions we (dh and I)have to make, and I have to hold my ground and listen to that stuff. I have gottin to a point were I don't tell people (in person) that we don't vaccinate, I don't need any more people on my butt about it. Be prepared IF you decide not to vaccinate, you will more then likely hear from alot of people who believe that you should and they will do everything they can including make you feel guilty and a bad parent for the choice you make. I have never dealt with a person that didn't vaccinate there kids or at least didn't admit that they didn't vaccinate.

Good luck with what ever you choose. I hope what ever decision you choose works out great for you and your child/ren.

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