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Vaccination & Immunization Message Board

Vaccination & Immunization Board Index

Why is it that you assume that those who DO vaccinate are not educated and are just blindly following the crowd?i did alot of research before I let my children become vaccinated,really.We are not stupid people who just don't know any better so we just do what evrybody else does,trust me.while those people ARE indeed out there,i would not presume that we are uneducated because we chose to protect our children from what could be some very very devistating threats to their health.i chose to vaccinate after weighing all of the benefits over the very small risks.i could find alot of research done that really supported the need to protect my children but amazingly could not really find any 'real' actual factual research that supported any of the 'presumed" affects that the vaccinations were perported to be causing,really.while some children have indeed had some very extreme reactions to the vaccines,those cases are the big exception and not the can have reactions,some extremely life threatening by taking an antibiotic for something as simple as strep throat,and this is much more likely to actually happen than to have that extreme reaction that some children will actually have to being given the vaccines.Trust me, I AM educated,and did the best possible thing for my children.Seeing these new cases of polio popping up really really makes me even more sure that I did make the right decision.I am not stupid,and did not decide to vaccinate just because someone told me to.marcia
I have to ask those of you who did not decide to vaccinate just how you arrived at this decision and was this decision made by looking at the actual confirmed facts or was it made out of your fears for what 'could" possibly happen?

I am only asking as I have been in this position a few too many times with one particular instance that will live in my mind forever.when my son was in actual liver failure before the transplant(he was also suffering with a really horrid case of pancreatitis that was triggered because of a raging infection within his bile ducts) and also after,he had to go through ALOT of various tests and procedures to try and deal with all that was going on inside the GI tract.liver failure also severely compromises the other organs(spleen,and kidneys and the pancreas)so in order to prevent certain things from happening and to keep aneye on things,he was really having to deal with alot of ongoing crap,as well as myself and my husband.
but one particular morning when we went up to see him,we usually got there pretty early as thatis when the docs were making rounds and waslike the only real time you could actually talk with them.anyway,that morning(he was about 8 days post Tx)as we rounded the corner,all of his docs were outside his room and in kind of a huddle and looking at his last two sets of labs.We found out then that they felt very strongly that our son was bleeding internally from 'somewhere" they just did not know where or how bad.He would need to have a certain procedure done to try and find the cause,the only problem was was that he did not have alot of time.the bleeding was bad.We were giventwo he could have the procedure done under general anesthesia(he had had this same procedure done two times before this way)or they could do it much more rapidly by doing it without the general.The difference in times were about fifteen without and close to possibly 45 minutes we knew that without,he was going to suffer,really.even with the fentanyl and the heavy sedation,he was going to feel pretty intense pain once this tube and camera that was going to be pushed down his throat actually hit the post surgical area as it was all fresh and still inflammed.god,what a flippin crappy choice.i was sooo incredibly scared,the last thing i wanted to do was to actually give these people the permission to assault and inflict pain upon a child who had and still was suffering through sooo much pain already.but I had to put aside my emotional side and look at the real facts as to what the risks were of not doing the faster procedure.he could very easily bleed to death if we waited for the procedure that would not really cause him any pain or any trauma.or we could get that tube into him in around fifteen minutes if we went without the general,but it was going to be a horrible and painful experience for him and thing the doc had told us that was at least a little reassuring was that there would be no memory of this for my son.while he would be essentially awake for it and experience it,he would not remember it at all,and he hasn't.unfortunetly,for me and my husband,it is kind of burned into the old memory forever)we really did not have too much of a choice when looking at all of the facts and the we went ahead with it and oh my god.i spent most of it holding my sons hand,with my back turned(he could not actually see us anyway as the docs were in the way)with my face buried into the front of my husbands shirt just balling my eyes was an experience i would not wish upon my worst enemy,honestly it was ghastly.but we were actually very very lucky we did this as he was actively bleeding from the sutures that were holding the ends of the attatched portal vein(the large vein in the liver)together.He had lost about a pint and a half already and that half an hour to 45 minutes if had chose the other way,most likely would have caused his death.

if i had gone with what my fears were telling me about the suffering and extreme pain the quicker procedure would have caused him,i might not still have my son here to yell at to pick his dang clothes up off the floor like every day.

i know that this is an extreme example of what I am trying to convey,but you really do need to take a close look at why you made the decision that you did,really.was it the choice for your child based on all of the facts or was it based on your own fears of the very small risks of what 'could' happen?just trying to put things in the proper perspective.Marcia
Feelbad and Babyluv - I have a hard time with what you're saying. If immunizations are effective, why are you concerned with the non-immunized kids causing a wide-spread epidemic amongst everyone else (the majority of whom are immunized)? The fear for parents who choose not to immunize is the other way around - immunized kids actually have the virus in their systems... NOT the non-immunized. As dannysmom mentioned, the non-immunized kids who have been positively diagnosed with polio, most likely contracted it from a carrier of polio - someone who received it straight into their blood stream, whether it was an adult or a child. Polio doesn't just sit in a gutter for some kid to catch when they are splashing in puddles, and they most likely didn't contract it from a pet dog when they were playing with it. They had to have contracted it from a source that was hosting it. Anyone who has been vaccinated with the Polio vaccine is a carrier - it is in their system, whether or not it shows up through physical disabilities.

Non-immunized children do not spread disease - there is no disease in them to spread, until they get infected by someone who has it, and how did that person get it? Most likely from being immunized. What a brilliant idea - pay money and risk your child's health and well-being by diliberately injecting antigens into their blood stream and expect their immature and underdeveloped immune system to fight back.

I think this is a major point for parents who choose to not immunize. I will most likely immunize my children when they are 7 or 8 years old or more, after their bodies are more developed, but not earlier. Immunizations bypass the first FOUR natural systems of defense (the skin, the muscus membranes, the gut lymphoid system, and the rest of the entire lymph system) and deliberately place an antigen directly into the blood stream of a child whose organs and immune system are underdeveloped and immature. The mere presence of antibodies in no way proves effectiveness of a vaccine, or immune protection against a specific antigen. Doctors and scientists/biologist readily admit they do not know what antibodies do, what their purpose or their function is. To assume that because a vaccine causes a certain reaction of antibodies, that a person and even more so a child or infant is then "protected", is blind reasoning, based on documented medical and scientific studies. These can be found if you look in the right places (can't post them).

An excellent resource is Dr. Sherri Tenpenny - she is probably the foremost expert on vaccinations. Personally, I have two friends who were negatively affected by vaccines, one who contracted polio at the time of the vaccination, another who was also born perfectly healthy but after a specific vaccine, his physical development stopped and began to deform. He is now physically deformed from the chest down, is in an electric wheel chair and receives stipends from the US gov't for the rest of his life because of it (he cannot work or take care of himself). I have several friends who have huge divots in their arm from a vaccine they received as a child that destroyed the skin at the sight of the injection. I personally have experienced painfully swollen limbs, tingling, extreme burning and discomfort at the sight of injection and in that limb after receiving "normal" booster vaccines AS AN ADULT. In my own life and from my own personal experience and research, this overwhelmingly leads me to decide to never subject my own infant, baby or young child to these risks when their body is young and underdeveloped.

The pharmaceutical industry calls the tragic cases of children who are permanently damaged or worse, the children who die, from vaccines "for the greater good". Because it is considered (rightfully so) unethical to test the safety and efficacy of vaccines on children, the only means of knowing is strictly observational - meaning do it anyway and see what happens. If it's "bad enough" then something will change but otherwise, it's "for the greater good". Well, who decides it's bad enough? The parents who "wisely" trusted their doctors and nurses (who know as little, if not less than the parents about the safety and efficacy, and merely repeat what pharmaceutical sales reps have told them about their vaccine they convinced them to purchase and use - YES, pharmaceutical companies all have all of the same vaccines and compete in sales...Why do you think dr.s offices are stocked to overflowing with branded pens?) Parents whose children suffer adverse effects or worse, die from vaccines don't decide when it's "bad enough", and the children of the world continue to be the observational guinea pigs for the safety of vaccines. For those who have already been negatively affected or have died, their "observational" results came too late. Personally, I will not willingly allow my child to be a test and risk the possibility of them becoming a statistic "for the greater good".

Another thought to consider is if vaccines are supposed to work by deliberately placing an antigen into the bloodstream and "letting it loose" so to speak, and waiting and hoping the immune system will do its job (which is actually still pretty vague in the medical community), what is the difference between injecting the flu virus into the blood stream (who HASN'T gotten the flu (or what doctors say are "symptoms" of the flu, as if that makes the fact that the virus is in your system and your body is reacting as in... you have the flu... any less real than actually "having the flu"'s just semantics) after receiving a flu vaccine?) What difference does it make to have it injected into your bloodstream and having "symptoms" and getting sick anyway ("that shows it's working!") or just waiting for it to somehow manage to bypass your first for God-given symptoms of defense and make you sick? It's not really different. This isn't necessarily the case with all vaccines, but a majority of them make no difference, symptomatically speaking.

Other things to consider are:

(1) the observable (if it's a good enough method for the pharmaceutical companies, why isn't it good enough for those challenging them?) rise of autism (a very easily linked side effect of vaccinations) in the human population (specifically western cultures) since vaccine schedules were implimented early in the 20th century, AND the serious LACK of autism in Amish communities (only 3 documented cases when, statistically speaking there should have been hundreds, and all three of them received vaccines - one was adopted from China and received vaccines before she was sent to the US, the second was a mennonite child whose parents were pressured by local health officials coming to their door on more than one occasion, and the third family could not be located)) who very stringently do not vaccinate their children.

(2) the observable link between vaccinations received at 2 months, 4 months and 6 months, and the overwhelming majority of SIDS cases occuring at those times, when children have received vaccines (this can actually be documented by examining publicly available death certificates of infants from your local morgue, whose deaths are listed as SIDS and under "Cause of death" a photocopy of "Adverse Reactions" from a vaccine has been attached.

For all these reasons, parents choose not to vaccinate their children.

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